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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: captainjackdi on Tuesday 24 June 08 21:50 BST (UK)
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Hi
does anyone know if there are any records for silk mill derby - I understand there was a fire at some point - alot of my relatives are listed occupations as silk mill hand, silk weaver, silk doubler etc around 1850 -1860's
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Hi,
Think you should be aware that there was more than 1 silk factory in Derby in
the 1800's.
Contact details for the Museum at Derby Silk Mill are:-
Derby's Museum of Industry and History
Silk Mill Lane, off Full Street, Derby, DE1 3AF
telephone: 01332 255308
fax: 01332 255108
You could also try a search on A2A, however I have never found any employee records
relating to this mill.
Spendlove
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There is a book - "The Old Derby Silk Mill and its Rivals" by Harry Butterton - very interesting it is too - he seems to have much f his research in the Local Studies Library in Irongate, and also the Museum - which I also take to be the Inudstrial Museum in the Silk Mill rather than Derby Museum in the Wardwick. He does name a number of people. such as wm hutton who worked there from the age of 7 and had high pattens specially made for him to reach the machinery.
If you give me a name I'll look to see if they are men tioned in the book.
Regards
Derby Girl
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Oops! I was mising it up with another book - it's an interesting read, but doesn't contain many extra names to the Census. My apologies.
Sorry
Derby Girl
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Hi,
Wonder if it's this one?
A fire took place on 2 June 1875. The first Cotton Mill was built in Sutton by the Unwin Family c1770. It changed hands in 1851, and became a Silk Mill, before being heavily damaged by fire in 1875. After some years of standing empty, the factory re-opened and continued in use until the early 1970's, when it was again ravaged by fire.
The dates are a bit out, but thought it might be a possibility.
If you think it is I'll send you a link so you can see a photograph.
Kind regards,
Paulene
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Hi,
Unwin's Cotton Mill was in Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, think we are
looking for Silk Mill actually in Derby.
The present day Museum in Derby "Silk Mill" houses a collection of Industrial items including details of the History of the building as a Silk Mill. As far as I am aware no records have survived for any employees of this building.
Must stress that in the 1800's there were other "Silk Mills" in Derby, again as far as
I am aware no employee records survive.
Contact detail for the present day Derby Silk Mill are as previous post.
Hope this helps.
Spendlove.
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Hi again,
You're quite right, Spendlove - just checked again. Put a search in for silk mills specifying Derby and it came up ???
Seemed to fit the bill, so assumed it was Derby. Teach me to check! :-[ ;D
Will keep on looking - hopefully something will turn up.
Kind regards,
Paulene :)
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Hi captainjackdi,
I've found details of one which burnt down in 1826 and again in 1910, and this one was definitely in Derby. Think these dates fit in with what you're hoping to find? Details to follow.
Kind regards,
Paulene :)
P.S. Sorry for misleading you the first time. :-[
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Hi derbygirl,
Sounds like it's the same mill - Lombe's. It certainly does have a fascinating history, doesn't it. Might pop and have a read of the book next time I visit Derby. Thank you for mentioning it.
Captainjackdi,
There are various photographs of the mill and a potted history (mentions both fires) on www.picturethepast.org
Like spendlove said, employee records are unlikely, though they do have records regarding the mill's history, etc.
Did wonder if apprenticeship records might list names of people who served their apprenticeships there, but apparently there are none for the actual city - and they would probably relate more to the earlier period.
("Hutton’s authority is the best, for he served an apprenticeship of seven years in the mill").
Anyway, captainjackdi - good luck with the hunt.
Some lovely photos on the above site + interesting facts.
Kind regards,
Paulene :)
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Thanks to you all for your information
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Dear Captain Jackdi
Pigots Directory of 1835 (Derbyshire) gives - Silk Manufacturers - Thomas Bridgett & Co, 68 Bridge St, Derby, Mark Brown (laces, cords etc), 9 George Street, Derby, Frost and Stevenson, Queen Street Mill, in the City Road, derby, John Mellor (laces, sewing silks, cords, etc.) 5 Green Street, Derby, Jno & Thos Robinson, Sacheverell St, Derby, Wm Taylor (silk mills), Silk Mill Lane, Derby ( I think this was originally Lombe's mill), Wm Unsworth (laces, sewing silks, cords, etc.), Siddal's Lane, Derby, Robert Ward, 5 Full Stgreet, Derby, Wilson, Moore & Co, 2 Devonshire Street, Derby. Silk Throwsters - Moore, Ambrose & Co, Depot mills, Derby, John Rawlings, 37 Nuns Street, Derby, Wm Taylor, Silk Mill Lane (i.e. Lombe's ?), Wright & Baker, 27 Agard Street, Derby. There are also other firms involved in making silk hosiery and gloves, which would also probably employ outworkers. Any help at all?
Regards
Derby Girl.
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Hi, I have a William Parkin Morley, who along with his twin brother John Patterson, had, in 1851 a Silk Throwster Corporation, employing 34 men, 150 women and 80 children. The brothers lived next door to each other, one at Depot Cottage, and one at Depot Mill, Normanton Road. If anyone has any information on this, I would really appreciate it - or some suggestions on how I can find out more about it. I don't know what it was called, unfortunately.
Many thanks
Amanda
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Dear Amanda According to Pigot's 1835, Depot Mills were owned by Moore, Ambrose & Co. There is also Glover's Directory of 1849 you could look up - I don't know if on the web - perhaps someone might go into the Local Studies Library on Irongate for you (I live in Yorkshire unfortunately) and see if they have anything there. Otherwise, you might look for wills left by your relatives - they can be very informative.
Regards
Derby Girl
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On page 62 of Butterton's book on "The old Derby Silk Mill and its Rivals" he says the town expanded southwards after the sale of the Normanton and Castlefields estates, and that four mills were built along Normanton Road, 3 of which were headed by members of the Morley family. I'm sure Local Studies will be able to help you if you are able to visit.
Regards
Derby Girl
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Thanks so much Derby Girl - Unfortunately I live in Australia, so can't visit :) I will definitely look into in as much as I can on the web though - I will try to get in contact with the Local Studies and see if anyone there can help me.. Thanks again, much appreciated
Regards
Amanda
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Dear Amanda
What is shocking is that most of the employees would probably have been between the ages of 13 and 18, because the work was so fine and you needed young fingers to do it. Older people often worked out - weaving etc.
Regards
Derby Girl
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It definitely was shocking Derby Girl. On the 1851 census, it says that William and John employed 34 men, 150 women and 80 children - but I bet out of the 150 women, probably 90% were under 18.
I have been searching for the book you mentioned - Old Derby Silk Mill and it's Rivals, and and having a hard time trying to find it. It is not in any local libraries, or online. I have found 2 places I can buy it online, but one is in America and one in England, so really expensive. I might ask at our local Family History Association next time I go in - they may have some sort of access to it.
I have contacted the Local Studies and have received a reply from a very helpful lady, so will be following that up.
Thanks once again for your help.
Regards
Amanda
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Dear Amanda
Well I know this is a daft suggestion - but he published the book himself - he is Mr H E Butterton, 37 Windley Crescent, Darley Abbey, Derby DE22 1BY. He might have a few copies left. Yes, I know that's 13 years ago, and he could be long gone - but...... well, you never know. Any help? Since the address is on the book I haven 't worried about reproducing it here - but he also provides his telphone number if you want it.
Regards
Derby Girl
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Hi,
I do have the book Old Derby Silk Mill by H. Butterton. This is a general history of the
original Derby Silk Mill built by the Lombe Brothers C1715, it does mention other mills in
Derby however there are very few individuals mentioned.
If you would like to post the name of your ancestors I will take a look to see if they are mentioned.
Would just like to say that not all Mill owners were unjust, and in a number of cases the Factory
Inspectors giving evidence in the 1840's discovered that a number of parents had had their
children of about 10 or 11 years of age baptised stating they were 13 years old, with this certificate
they then put them to work in the Mills avoiding the restrictions on child labour laid down by the
1833 Factory Act.
Spendlove
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Thanks spendlove. Derby girl said that there was information about my ancestor on page 62 of the book. His name was William Parkin Morley, and along with his twin brother John Patterson Morley, they owned a silk throwster corporation (this is what it says on the 1851 census). The census also says they lived at Depot Cottage and Depot Mill respectively. I know William Parkin was born in Leek, but married Sophia Cholerton in Derby on 1849, so he was in Derby by then. The family moved to Ireland around 1855, so they were not in Derby for all that long. The census also states they employed 34 men, 150 women and 80 children so it must have been a fairly big operation. Each brother also had 2 servants, so they must have been doing well for themselves. I appreciate any help you are offering. Thanks very much.
Regards
Amanda
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Dear Amanda and Spendlove
Mr Butterton wrote two books - the first one which I don't have was just on the Old Silk Mill - I've got his second which is on silk manufacture in general in Derby.
Regards
Derby Girl
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Thanks Derby Girl. I have emailed the Local Studies again to see if they have a copy of the book you mentioned, and if they will scan it and email it to me. Fingers crossed :-)
Thanks again for your help
Regards
Amanda
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Hi Amanda,
Re the entry in the 1841 Census for William P. Morley, I think you will find that it states:-
Silk Throwster, co-partner with J P Morley. Employing 24 Men, 150 Women & 80 Children - 254.
The entry for John P. Morley has a similar entry:- Silk Throwster, co-partner with W P Morley.
The extract from the book, The Old Derby Silk Mill & Its Rivals by Harry Butterton states:-
"The diversity in location matched the expansion of the town southwards during these years
with the sale at long last of the Castlefields and Normanton estates. Breaking the stranglehold of the feudal past on land to provide new sites for worker's housing. As an illustration of this development, no less than four silk mills sprang up along the Normanton Road, three of them headed by members of the Morley family.
Taking the 1851 Census and the book entry, you are looking for a Mill named "Depot Mill", Normanton Road, Derby in the Parish of St. Werburgh.
In the book "The history of the County of Derby~" by Stephen Glover 1829, it lists Messrs. Ambrose
Moore at the Depot Mill - so it looks as if the Morley Brothers took over a going concern.
You are unlikely to find any workers records etc., however you may be lucky and find land/property
transactions you need to search A2A via the National Archives web site.
Spendlove.
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http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/BygoneIndustries/SilkIndustries.html
BYGONE INDUSTRIES OF THE PEAK: SILK INDUSTRIES
interesting site
sylvia
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It is interesting that Moore St and Depot St are still there, though Ambrose St which ran parallel to Moore St, was demolished in the late 1960's. I still miss the aroma from Offiler's brewery which stood on Ambrose St :) The Brewery site was formerly an Ordnance Depot (c1808) and then the Silk Throwsters (1820's) and then the Star Tea Company. Incidently, Brewer George Offiler's (born in Old Basford ,Nottm ) mother was named Newton Morley.
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Hi Sergeant Cecil
Do you know why George Offiler moved to Derby and have you any information about his life in Nottingham?
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Hi
The following site give a little background information re George Offiler:-
http://youandyesterday.com/articles/Offilers'_Brewery_-_A_lost_Derby_pint
Spendlove
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Hi
Just thought I would add some more information to this thread. I have just found a newspaper article in the Derby Mercury from 11 May 1853. It details an accident that happened to my intoxicated third Great Grandfather Daniel Revell 1796-1853. He was an employee at Eyre Thorp Silk Mill, Full Street, Derby. He was hit by the flywheel and died. I suspect that the Eyre Thorp Mill was one of the minor mills.
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Hi
For anyone searching for this mill it was known as:-
Messers Eyre, Thorpe & Co, Silk Mill Full Street Derby.