RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Lisaw on Tuesday 24 June 08 16:12 BST (UK)
-
Good morning everyone,
I need help figuring out whats going on with this family in the censuses.
Adam Matthew & Jane Smith married July 6 1839, Fyvie. They had John on Sept 17 1839, Fyvie, christened Jan 17 1840 & an unnamed female Oct 15 1842, Fyvie, christened Nov 4 1842
1841 census (freecen) Fyvie Aberdeenshire, enumeration district 12, civil parish Fyvie, folio 12, page 7, address Mill of Gight
Matthew Adam male 45 ag lab born Aberdeen
Matthew Jean female 25 born Aberdeen
Matthew John male 1 born Aberdeen
The next household is the Sheperd family: Ja, Jean, Christian, James & John. They also have an Elizabeth Smith female 19 born Aberdeen & a Ja Simpson male 4 born Aberdeen living with them. Please remember these 2 names.
1851 census (freecen) Fyvie, Aberdeenshire, enumeration district 12, civil parish Fyvie, ecclesiastical parish, village or island Millbrex, folio 185, page 10, schedule 39, address Mill of Gight.
Smith Jean head, married, female, 34, pauper, born Aberdeenshire-Fyvie
Simpson James, son, unmarried, male, 14, born Aberdeenshire-Fyvie
Matthew John, son, unmarried, male, 11, born Aberdeenshire-Fyvie
Matthew Jean, daughter, unmarried, 8, born Aberdeenshire-Fyvie
Smith Helen, daughter, unmarried, 5, born Aberdeenshire-Fyvie.
These people look like they should be the same people in both the 1841 & 51 censuses, but I'm not "cluing in" on what is happening with all the different surnames.
I've looked for a James Simpson born in that time with a mother named Jean or Jane, the only one I can find that fits is Alexander Simpson & Jean Ironside. I can't find a marriage for them.
Can anyone help me figure out whats going on?
Thank you
Lisa
-
At first reading it looks like Adam died between censuses and Jean re-married a Smith, who may also have died pre 1851.
If she died after 1855 her DC may give marriage details.
-
Thank you Sancti I'll look for a Jane Smith marrying a Smith & a Jane Matthew marrying a Smith. I still don't know where Simpson is coming from.
Lisa
-
It could be that Adam was away from home (Jean is described as married - not widowed) and that Ja. Simpson and Helen Smith were illegitimate children of Elizabeth who had died between censuses. The births of both these children may not have been registered.
Jean and Elizabeth may have been sisters and Jean could have taken in her children. It was not unusual for a woman to use her maiden name on a census. Similarly, I have seen relationships mis-transcribed - grandchildren described as son or daughter or other relationships which are impossible to establish, even when you are aware of the extended family. Sometimes a look at the original document will give different information from that on the transcription.
-
Thank you grendlsmother, I didn't think of that. I think it could be a good possibility. I can find a Jean & Elizabeth Smith as sisters, & I've heard of that type of scenario happening in families before too.
Lisa
-
Hi Lisa
Doesn't necessarily help with the children, but there were two daughters born to a John Smith and Jane Milne (showing on IGI):
1. JANE SMITH Christeningv on 04 FEB 1816 Fyvie
2. ELISABETH SMITH Christening on 25 OCT 1819 Fyvie
Monica :)
-
This looks a good possibility for James Simpson (who looks to have married an Elspeth Cassie) in 1861:
James Simpson 28, ploughman, b. Fyvie
Elspet Simpson 22, b. Fyvie
Jean Simpson 1
James Simpson 6 Mo
Jean H Gerry 11, dom.,serv.
Address: Woodhead, Fyvie
If the correct one, his marriage cert. should hopefully confirm his parents' names.
Monica
-
Hi Monica,
Those are the 2 Smith girls I was looking at. Their mother is a Milne. This family seems to have really liked the Milnes. She would "fit in" so to speak.
Jane Smith & Adam Matthews' son John married Williamina Milne, their daughter Jane had 2 children with James Milne. Whether or not these 3 generations of Milnes are related is something I haven't established.
I've looked at that marriage. I'm not sure what to think of it.
Thanks,
Lisa
-
Lisa ;D what this the marriage cert. say? We're curious now!
Monica
-
Monica,
I haven't looked at it yet because it says Cassie, it should say Smith shouldn't it?
Lisa
-
James Simpson, who shows as son to Jean Smith in 1851, looks to have married Elspeth Cassie. It was that marriage cert I was referring to, to help you hopefully resolve at least whose son he was ::)
Monica :)
-
Monica
LOL@me, of course thats what you meant! That would hopefully solve this for me. I'll take a look because I think you're right. :)
Lisa
-
Well the marriage document wasn't in very good shape but I could read most of it.
James Simpson son of unreadable Simpson & Jane Ironside
Elspet Cassie daughter of William Cassie & Anne Finnie.
Lisa
-
That's a pity Lisa :'( This James must be the one you found as son of an Alexander Simpson.
Monica
-
;) At least, we do have the right parents for Jane Smith (John Smith and Jane Milne). Jane died in New Deer in 1895.
Monica :)
-
Helen Smith who shows with Jane in 1851 was her daughter ;)
Helen married a James Michael (his mother was also a MILNE ;D) in 1866 in Old Deer. Her (reputed) father shows as James BARRACK, a farmer - mother Jane Smith. Witness....James Simpson ::) There is a submitted entry under the name of Barrack on IGI for Helen.
This looks to be Jane staying with Helen and family in 1881:
Jane Matthew 66, mother in law, Stocking Knitter, b Fyvie
James Michael 66, Crofter Of 20 Ac. Arable, b. Old Deer
Helen Michael 33, wife, b. Fyvie
Annie Michael 12
Jane Michael 10
Helen Michael 6
Bella Michael 3
Ferguson Michael 9 Months,
James Wilson 39, newphew, joiner, b New Deer
Address: Kirkhill, Old Deer
Monica
-
Not surprisingly now, it does look like James Simpson was also Jane's son.
He looks to have married an Ann Stout in the Shetlands in 1869. Parents show as George Simpson and Jane m.s. Smith
These are the children showing to them on IGI:
1. GEORGE SIMPSON Birth on 18 NOV 1869 Old Deer, Aberdeen
2. JANE MILNE SIMPSON Birth on 17 SEP 1871 Old Deer, Aberdeen
This looks like their 1871 entry:
James Simpson 33, mason, b. Fyvie
Ann Simpson 33, b. Shetland
George Simpson1, b. Old Deer
Catharine Stout 11, niece, b. Shetland
Address: Banks, Old Deer
Monica
-
Wow Monica!
Thanks alot!
I guess what has happened is Jane Smith was 1st with George Simpson, had James, relationship ends. Next Jane was with Adam Matthew, had John & Jean, relationship ends. Next Jane is with James Barrack & has Helen.
So if the cause of the relationships ending is death, I'm looking for Adam Matthew dying between 1841 & about 1845... going by Helen's birth which says born about 1845.
Another Milne...I'm not surprised at all.
Lisa
-
Please link to today's query.
flst
-
Hi Liza
please get in touch. The Smith family is my line. Elizabeth and Jean were sisters. There mother was Jean Milne there father died so Jean Milne married a Shepherd. My main line is through Elizabeth. Lots's of illegimate children in the Smith line.
Karen
-
Hi voodoo,
Thanks for contacting me, I hope we can hook up on here & exchange information (what little I have). Same kind of thing went on in my family too ;)
Lisa
-
I'm in the chat room here right now. You coming on there?