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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 24 June 08 13:52 BST (UK)
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Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt and it's Brendams turn to give you a real puzzle. I think this might turn into one of the harder ones you've have to do, but I'm sure you're up to the task.
Good luck and Good Hunting.
Barbara
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I am trying to find out what happened to my great grandfather, Charles Adrian Attwood. I can't find his death and I am inclined to believe that he is still not among the living.
The following information is confirmed by certificates:
Charles Adrian Attwood married Harriet Bubb on February 12, 1888 in the parish of Overbusy, Worcester. Charles' father is listed as Henry Attwood, Labourer. Harriet's father is listed as William Bubb, Labourer.
Harriet died at the age of 45 years in March 1909, her occupation is listed as 'wife of Charles Attwood (Carter)'. Being listed as wife of Charles leads me to believe that Charles was still alive at the time of her death (of course I could be wrong).
From census information and LDS:
Charles Adrian Attwood was born 1863 in Conderton, Worcestershire. His parents Henry Attwood (b 1838, died bef 1893) and Eliza Aston (b 1831, died 1903).
Charles and Harrit had the following children:
Alice (Bubb) born 1885, Tewkesbury
Ellen, born 1889 Conderton
Florence Louisa born 1890 Overbury
Alfred Charles born 1891 Overbury
Elizabeth born 1894 Conderton
Annie born 1896 Worcester
Beatrice born 1897 St. Peters, Worcester (my Grandmother)
Harriet born 1899 Worcester
Louisa born Apr 21 1899 Worcester died Feb 26, 1900 (twin to Harriet)
When Harriet died the two youngest children (Beatrice and Louisa) were sent to Worcester Union and then to Canada through Middlemore Home as part of the British Home Children. Beatrice and Louisa sailed to Canada on May 20, 1911. Because of this I thought that maybe Charles had died also and the children were orphans. It was pointed out to me that he may not have been dead but did not have the means to look after the children.
My mystery, when did Charles Adrian Attwood die - was it before or after his wife Harriet. If it was after Harriet's death, did he move away.
I have tried getting information from the Middlemore Home regarding Beatrice and Louisa, but after trying and trying I still have not had any reply to my emails.
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Bookmarking for later.
Kerry
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;D
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:D
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Hi,
In my collection of death certs all state "wife of" if the husband was still living and "widow of" if the husband had pre-deceased her.
Who was the informant on Harriet's death cert?
Nanny Jan
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Was that Florence that went to Canada with Beatrice?
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I found Louisa going to canada with Beatrice.
There is a death in 1900 for Harriet / slip of the fingers I think.
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Strange I thought I'd posted this once?????
Ellen Attwood age 3 boarding with Ellen Hawker and her family in Edensfield Worc'.1901 ...RG13/2786/89/8.If it is her ,who's Ellen Hawker...??
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They're under "Callwood" in 1901 census RG13/2779 Folio 38 Page 19
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Hi everyone Found this Census 1891 looks like right family :
1891 Census Overbury Tewkesbury Worcestershire RG12-2050-125p14
97 La-Loo Hilltop
Charles Attwood 27 b 1864 Com ?? Worcestershire
Harriett 28 b 1863 Repple Worcestershire
Alice Bubb 7 b 1884 Tewkesbury ( Step-daughter)
Ellen 2 b 1889 Conderton Worcestershire
Florence L 1 b 1890 Overbury Worcestershire
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Catone
Hi do you think Charles attwood might be registered under that for his death ? Callwood ?
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I think its just a mistranscription, looks like Attwood to me (with a strange little circle at the top of the A) :-\
Finding his death probably means trawling through each quarter in the indexes, couldn't see him 1909 -1911 :-\
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There is a few people looking for ancestors like yourself who went via worcester Union
I found this message not to do with your family but might give you info for research :
******************************************
jan@rossbret.co.uk
Listmom: UK-WORKHOUSE-HOSP
http://www.workhouses.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Peters" <gpeters@graduates.iti.com>
To: <UK-WORKHOUSE-HOSP-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 7:43 PM
Subject: [UK-W&H] Worcester Union / Union Cottage Homes, Midland
Road,Worcester
> I am new to the list, and would like to ask members about the following.
My grandfather , William John Peters was born in 1896 - 1897 in Worcester,
Worchestershire (supposedly.) The only concrete information we have on him
was that he entered the Middlemore Homes in Birmingham in May, 1911, and was
immediately shipped to Canada as a Home Child. A very kind soul in Winnipeg,
Manitoba found the following info on a microfilm. He apparently was with the
Worcester Union, and was examined in the Union Cottage HOmes in Worcester.
> Geoffrey Peters
REPLY :
Unfortunately, records for Worcester are quite patchy, and it might take
some digging to find small pieces of information.
You know that he was in Worcester Union prior to May 1911 and possibly for
some time before that.
Worcester Union have Creed registers for this time, which can sometimes
produce information, such as Name, Date of Birth, Details of Admission,
Creed (religion) and occasionally previous address and next of kin. This
might possibly be your starting point.
They are held by Worcester Record Office, at
County Hall, Spetchley Road, Worcester. WR5 2NP
http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/records/
They can also give you details as to location and building of the Cottage
Homes (possibly O.S. maps).
Although a little outside your time frame I thought I would mention a book
that is available:
Workhouse Children: Infant and Child Paupers under the Worcestershire Poor
Law 1780-1871, by Frank Crompton, Sutton Publishing Sept 1998.
ISBN Hardback 0750912812; Paperback 0750914297
(I have not read this book yet, and cannot vouch for the content)
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According to the Middlemore Index, Beatrice May Attwood was sent to New Brunswick, Canada and her sister Louisa Nova Scotia, Canada
http://www.bifhsgo.ca/special_projects/home_children/Middlemore-Index/A-Index.htm
Karen
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back later whn i've done housework, tea, cut grass and bathed kids and put them to bed
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HI Everyone, just home for work and lots of responses - thank you.
KarenM - Beatrice was sent to NB but ended up in Nova Scotia at some point. She married and died in Halifax, NS. Louisa was returned to England. I do have that record, but couldn't get info from Worcester Union. I think Louisa died around 1975 (this is not confirmed)
CatOne - I never thought to look under Callwood or any other possible misspelling. Thanks for that.
Tinav40 - you are right - I should have put the 1900 death beside Harriet not Louisa (shame on me).
NannyJan - the informant on Harriet's death certificate is hard to read. looks like W.B. Holme, Coronor, for City of Worcester.
Thank you to everyone for your responses. I'll get researching more this evening.
cheers
B
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was there an inquest held into Harrietts death? for a coroner to register it?
i wodner if there was foul play?
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at Worcester RO
Creator(s):
Church of England, Overbury Parish, Worcestershire
Overbury [in Overbury with Teddington with Alstone and Little Washbourne]
Parish registers and associated documents
FILE [no title] - ref. 850OVERBURY/9031/1/iv - date: 1795 - 1812
[from Scope and Content] Note Vol. 4 includes notes on the church bells, part of the pedigree of the Attwood family of Conderton and a plan of the gravestones in the church floor with copies of their inscriptions.
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at the risk of stating the obvious,
there are no Charles Adrian Attwood deaths 1901-1920 (fullBMD)
there are 6 Charles Adrian * detahs int hesameperiod but none fo the surnames are remotley like Attwood and the eldest was born 1882, so notlikely to be yours
I relaised Charles could have reversed his names been indexed under Charles A or just under Charles not thats when things get realy difficult!
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again searching under Arian Charles * only 8 deaths from 1866 - 1920 (fullBMD)
nothing remotely like Attwood however the ages are nearer to yours
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Hi Toni,
According to Harriet's death certificate, she died "suddenly from bronchitis and weak heart". I'm thinking maybe at home, the address of death was Waverley Street, Cherry Orchard, Worcester.
Tell me, do you think Charles is still living somewhere. I'm beginning to wonder, because it doesn't look like he died! ;D
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Strange I thought I'd posted this once?????
Ellen Attwood age 3 boarding with Ellen Hawker and her family in Edensfield Worc'.1901 ...RG13/2786/89/8.If it is her ,who's Ellen Hawker...??
Is this to do with this Couple ? A marriage
Charles Attwood + Retina Hawker 1891 Jul/Aug/Sept Wincomb Worcestershire Gloucesershire
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Just chucking things in pot if Charles is still alive after Harriet Died could he have remarried ?
Found this one :
Charles Attwood 1910 Apr/May/Jun Ledbury Worcesteshire
2 poss Emma Holder or Jane peters
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i have searched the obvious places i.e. the bmd (up to 1920) the CWGC, the national archives and Worcester RO for Attwood via A2A
i have not searched overseas deaths
or the BMD after 1920
or the NBI
he could well have just been registerd under Charles Attwood, there are many of these
he may well have died away from home and therefore registered as an unknown male, the PR's sometimes give further dteials i.e. aged around 31 for example but obviously you will need to know wherehe died to locate him and this we don't
if he died in his home parish he would not have been registered as an unknown male. - that just leaves some 100's of other parishes ::)
if Harriett died suddenly then there would have been an inquest i wonde rif you can get holdof the inquest papers this will tell you if Charles was still alive at the time ofher detah, as she is listed as wife of Charles it is most likely that he was.
Did Charles leave a will? you may be able to locate it if he did and then this will obviously narrow his detah date down somewhat.
a persons idetity at deathmight be different from that at the time his or her birth was registered fromal name changes are not obligatory and there are no indexes of same.
someone dying away from his / her home parish may make positive identification difficult fromt he indexes esp. if the name was common.
given ages at detah may be wildly inaccurate as they might have ben guessed bythe informant, people often had noidea of their real age or lied abou them.
i wonder if Harriett has a headstone, churhyard and cemetery registers will reveal who purcased the plot, and also if there are other family members interred in same
local press announcements i.e. obituary columns and funeral notices inthis casemay reveal further clues (for Harriett)
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Strange I thought I'd posted this once?????
Ellen Attwood age 3 boarding with Ellen Hawker and her family in Edensfield Worc'.1901 ...RG13/2786/89/8.If it is her ,who's Ellen Hawker...??
Could be this is Charles Attwood death : b 1874 - died 1913 Winchcomb Gloucestershire, Worcestershire
Is this to do with this Couple ? A marriage
Charles Attwood + Retina Hawker 1891 Jul/Aug/Sept Wincomb Worcestershire Gloucesershire
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good idea Tiggi, didnt think to look for another marriage
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It was Hepburn post got me thinking because I think too the child called Ellen could Charles & Harriet Daughter ? what does everyone else think ?
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how about school records, attendance and admission discharge, for the children?
these should tell you teh pupils name, d.o.b, father name, address and occupation (of the father and not the child obviously) the childs dat eof admission and progress through thte school, date of leaving and also reason for same and if changing schools the next intended school.
( i must check these out for my relatives)
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is she not with her family in 1901 ?
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Hi Tiggi,
I didn't think of another marriage after Harriet died. She died March 1909 so a marriage in 1910 is possible. Good thinkin'. As for Charles and Retina Hawker in 1891, I don't think that is a match since Charles and Harriet continued to have children up to 1899.
thanks
B
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there is also a Charles A Attwood marrying in Greenwich Q2 1920
i don't know if this is relevant - wrong area - but he could have moved away afetr his wifes detah especially as she died suddnely, you know how gossips like to make mountains out of mole hills that didnt even exist inthe first place
spouse = Gladys M Young
(1d 2180)
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Hepburn, my apologies, I missed responding to you. I don't think that would be Charles, I have his birth as 1863.
Ellen was living with her Charles and Harriet in the 1901 census (age 12).
Toni, thanks for the lists, there is alot to look into. Things I would never think to look at. It'll take me a while, but I'll get through that list.
B
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Brendam you say you have the cenus for Charles & Harriett are all the children with them in every census?
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From the marriage Tiggi found:
Looks like at least 2 children to Attwood (mother's name Peters); 1913 Kathleen E and 1917 Alfred C, both registered in Newent. (Found on FreeBMD)
Nanny Jan
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Toni,
In 1901 all the children are there along with Charles and Harriet.
1891 - there is Charles, Harriet, Alice, Ellen and Florence.
1881 - Charles was a boarder in Tewkesbury along with two of his brothers.
that would be all the census info I have
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I guess I will have to order a few more marriage certificates. Will a certificate for a 2nd marriage still provide groom's parents (even if they are deceased) so I can confirm that it is him.
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Brendam do you know if your grandmother had a sister Kathleen and or brother Alfred ? this would narrow it down and may save you having to purchase the cert.
thought of something to say and now its gone completely from my mind. ::)
will dwell on it in bed and get back to you! ;D
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Toni,
I do not know of a sister Kathleen, but if this was from a second marriage, my grandmother might not have known. My grandmother was sent to Canada in 1911 and Nanny Jan lists Kathleen as 1913. (Thank you Nanny Jan for providing that info :)
There was an Alfred with middle initial 'E', he was born 1892.
toni, don't dwell in bed - get some sleep, have a good rest :)
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Hi- Whilst this entry is not the ATTWOOD you are looking for, he may come into your family. ATTWOOD John Edwin born 1824 d.11.11.1898. son of Joseph, arried in Western Australia per the vessel "Racehorse" as an enrolled Pensioner Guard. If you would like the rest of the info on him, just reply and I will send it- Roser
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Hi
Hope you seasoned pros don't mind me lending a hand/or trying to.
Wondered what happened to Alfred as there is an Alfred Attwood on FindMyPast.
Listed 9th June 1910 from Bristol to Canada born in 1892.
Probably a coincidence.
Also there is a tree on Ancestry with a William Henry Attwood parents Charles Adrian and Harriet Bubb.
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1908 Street directory has Charles Attwood, labourer,
11 Waverley St Worcester.
See if I can find a later one. :)
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well done Tinav :)
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Hi
just a couple of points I didn;t make it very clear we can cancel out Charles Attwood with Retina Hawker
I did put his death down at same time but above marriage
I would think its him,
I think Hepburn said also Ellen Attwood in 1901 she was boarding with family ? could still be possiblity as what if they were registered on both Census records just happened to be visiting on day census taken could besome relative ?
If anyone has findmypast that is better site for look ups past 1900 has much more info ( unfortnately I don;t have it )
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Tiggi Charles Attwood who married Retina Hawker are a different couple, also Ellen Attwood who is livign with Ellen Hawker in 1901 again belongs to a different set of Attwoods
Brendams Charles Adrian Attwood was still with Harriett in 1901, there last child born 1899
Ellen Attwood is with Charles & harriett in 1901
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Can you tell me please. Are the Attwood family Romany-Roser
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Only one Charles A. Jan 1935 2C 151 aged 69 Winchester. Then I found a Charles A born 1866 Winchester so not him.
Other possibilities.
Charles aged 69 March 1929 6C 1860 Bromsgrove
Charles 79 April 1940 6C 407 Upton
Charles 56 Dec 1923 6D 875 Dudley
The only one I can't find a birth for is the Bromsgrove death.
So far I've got as far as 1946
There are other ones that fit the area but no where near the correct age. ???
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well Brendams Charles was born circa 1863, so the Bromsgrove death you found could possibly be him
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Charles Attwood
Jan qtr 1947 7B 493 Cheltenham aged 84.
The year is spot on and the area is good. Most of the children seem to have been born in the Cheltenham -Tewksbury area. :-\ :-\
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If his family were from Conderton, Overbury area they are right on the Gloucs border.
Could he have gone to stay with rellies to be looked after in his old age.
Or Cheltenham hospital.
Tina
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Good Evening All, back from work again and lots of replies to answer - I appreciate all your hard work - thank you.
Roser - I have in the tree a John Attwood, son of Joseph. The tree shows birth of John as 1839, but could be wrong. I would appreciate the information if you wouldn't mind sending it.
Tina - I think you are correct with the 1908 directory. Waverly Street is listed on Harriet's death certificate - good job. I'll order the certificate for Charles A who died in Bromsgrove, and Chelhenham. I might end up with a pile of certs, but that's what this research is all about.
Charles had big families, so he could have gone anywhere. I made contact with a cousin (related through Charles' brother) who gave me his tree. He hadn't heard of Charles and had no info regarding his death. Also, he did not have Beatrice and Louisa listed on his tree. The tree that is posted on Ancestry has pretty much the same info. I sent three emails to the owner of the 'ancestry' tree but have not had any replies.
Thank you everyone, you have given me direction on where to look next. Much appreciated.
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Hi Brendam & all - there is also a worldconnect tree that has this family, but it is perhaps the same one as is on Ancestry. No death date for Chas, and some of kids missing.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03pr/
Name of person is Doley.
Nick
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Hi Nick,
The Doley tree is the same as the one on Ancestry. After sending 3 emails I am hesitant to contact again. Since they are missing info on Charles family, I doubt they can help in this particular brickwall. Thanks for looking Nick.
Cheers
B
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I looked on Ancestry message boards. Someone is searching for Beatrice Attwood (same one) married to Hilverdt Poulsen.
Is it you Brendam or have we found some extra info?
Tina
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HI Tina
That would be me searching for Beatrice and Hilvardt. I posted messages everywhere when I first started family research. I must say I am alot further than I was then. I started with only the names of Beatrice and Hilvardt so I have indeed made progress.
I think I will order those death certificates tonight for Charles to see if I can find a match. I've been really lucky ordering certs from UK. All have arrived in less than two weeks to Canada.
One day I will find out what happened to Charles. It would be interesting to see if he did remarry and have more children. Or ... for those who like the naughty, did he do something bad and go to jail or something :P
cheerios
B
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Hello Hunters and here is this weeks Scavenger Hunt (I almost forgot to put it up this week... :o :o ) It's Tinav40's and it's very interesting.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,312900.0.html
As usual, this Hunt will remain open for any further information which may come in.
Barbara
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Hi Brendam- May not be yours, but I have found the birth date from records can be 10 years either way. If this man is yours I have a small amount more info-Roser
ATTWOOD John Edwin b.1824 d.11.11.1898 son of Joseph. Arrived Western Australia per vessel "Racehorse" as an Enrolled Pensioner Guard, married at Fremantle W.A. 14.5.1866 Alice Esther Sedgwick Turner b.1846 d. c1921 (Fremantle) daughter of John Turner, Children all born in Fremantle, issue, John Edwin b.1868, Ada Eliza b.1870, Alfred Charles b.1873, Joseph Sedgwick b. 1876, Evelyn Annie b.1883, William Hamilton b.1885, Esther Alice b.1887.d.1959. (John Edwin was formerly a Coporal in the 66th Regt. Occupied quarters at No 1 Barracks Fremantle until 1880 ?. Granted Perth Location 153V in 1883. 21 years of Army Service. (Anglican)
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Hi
I am attaching a picture of Hilvardt and Beatrice Poulsen along with children Ruth, Gorden and baby Doug.
Pmack
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Am trying to get in touch with Brendam, want to make sure she got the picture. Can't figure out how to send a personal message to her.
Pmack
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Am trying to get in touch with Brendam, want to make sure she got the picture. Can't figure out how to send a personal message to her.
Pmack
Hi there, do you see the little scroll to the left of the page, under Brendams avatar? Click on that and a message box will come up, write your message in there and click send. I'm sure Brendam will be in touch as soon as possible.
Barbara
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great photo ;D
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Hello Pmack,
Thank you so much for the photo, I am in shock. Where did you get the pic? Are we related?
I just returned from vacation and am doing my morning scroll thru Rootschat, what a wonderful surprise.
Brenda
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Hi Pmack,
I just answered your PM and thanks for the photo.
To rootschatters, Pmack is a long lost cousin I haven't seen for many years. She was always the 'brat' ... wait now, I was with her when she was a brat :) So, thanks to this website, another family reunited!
cheerios
B
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Well done Brendam............You've found more of your family :D :D :D I'll bet you've got heaps to talk about ;)
Barbara
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Strange I thought I'd posted this once?????
Ellen Attwood age 3 boarding with Ellen Hawker and her family in Edensfield Worc'.1901 ...RG13/2786/89/8.If it is her ,who's Ellen Hawker...??
Could be this is Charles Attwood death : b 1874 - died 1913 Winchcomb Gloucestershire, Worcestershire
Is this to do with this Couple ? A marriage
Charles Attwood + Retina Hawker 1891 Jul/Aug/Sept Wincomb Worcestershire Gloucesershire
Would someone please be able to tell me who is listed in the above 1901 census for that reference?
I'm chasing Charles and Reti(e)na nee Hawker. Was Hawker, Ellen's married name, as Retina had an aunt Eleanor, known as Ellen?
Thanks,
Alison :)
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1901
Ellen Hawker wid 54 All born Eldersfield
Gertrude A dau 17 General Domestic
Edward son 13
Thomas son 11
John L son 8
Ellen Attwood boarder 3 Longdon
Regards
Cat
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1901
Ellen Hawker wid 54 All born Eldersfield
Gertrude A dau 17 General Domestic
Edward son 13
Thomas son 11
John L son 8
Ellen Attwood boarder 3 Longdon
Regards
Cat
Thanks Cat,
That rules them out.
Regards,
Alison :)