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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: Oramazda on Thursday 19 June 08 20:12 BST (UK)

Title: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Thursday 19 June 08 20:12 BST (UK)
John was born in Dumfrieshire in July 1811 and emigrated to Ontario, Canada about 1843 and died about 1873. I have death records for all his siblings but not for him. He had two sons in the Canadian legislature David and William Kirkpatrick but I can't seem to find much on him. He was my 2nd great grand uncle and I'd just like to tie up a loose end. Any help gratefully received.
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: KarenM on Friday 20 June 08 15:44 BST (UK)
Were your McNaught's in the Brantford area of Ontario?

Karen
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Janice M on Saturday 21 June 08 02:32 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat!

Hopefully, with the information on the following links, you will be able to tell which family is yours. (Huron County or Brant County)

Huron County McNaught's

1861 Ontario Census Full Transcription for John & Family
http://ontariocensus.rootsweb.ancestry.com/transcripts/1231-10.html

Directory of the County of Grey for 1865-6. (Part 1)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wjmartin/grey1.htm


1871 Census - Head of Household Only

David McNaught - Huron North
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/1871-ontario/001016-119.01-e.php?sisn_id_nbr=101971

1871 Census - Full Transcription for John & Family
http://ontariocensus.rootsweb.ancestry.com/transcripts/7725-40.html

Seaforth hasn't been transcribed yet, (David's) but keep watching this site as new ones are being added all the time.
http://tinyurl.com/4ln9d6

I am posting this link, just in case there may be other family that immigrated.

Huron County - Census Project
http://tinyurl.com/3uoocf

Janice

Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Janice M on Saturday 21 June 08 02:56 BST (UK)
1881 Census -
(others as well as those listed below)
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp

David McNaught - Seaforth, Huron Centre County, Ontario
John McNaught - Grey, Huron Centre County, Ontario
Henry McNaught - Grey, Huron Centre County, Ontario
Thomas McNaught - Seaforth, Huron Centre County, Ontario

Family Search Labs
(some McNaught deaths)
http://labs.familysearch.org/

Ontario Vital Statistics Project
"McNaught's found in births/deaths/marriage
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onvsr/

Janice
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Janice M on Saturday 21 June 08 03:45 BST (UK)
Municipality of Huron East
(Formerly: Grey, McKillop and Tuckersmith Townships, Village of Brussels, and Town of Seaforth Townships)
http://www.huroneast.com/

Huron County GenWeb
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onhuron/

Huron County Heritage
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/8965/heritage.html#The%20Huron%20Historical%20Society

Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness - Ontario
http://www.raogk.org/ontario.htm

D. McNaught
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/countyatlas/showrecord.php?PersonID=83634

http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/countyatlas/images/maps/townshipmaps/hur-m-Tuckersmith.jpg

Ontario Genealogical Society - McNaught
http://www.ogs.on.ca/ogspi/m/mcn.htm

Ontario Cemetery Finding Aid
http://www.islandnet.com/cgi-bin/ms2/jveinot/search

Ontario Cemetery Project
I can only find listings for a John and David in Perth County
http://tinyurl.com/65e2d4

Janice

Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Janice M on Saturday 21 June 08 04:18 BST (UK)
Brantford McNaught's

David McNaught
http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/PageView?id=835075e33cc2dbe2&display=32962+0374

Brantford Gazatteer - 1869 - 1870
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~forontario/g-south-dumfries.htm

Brantford Library
http://www.brantford.library.on.ca/genealogy/

The history of the county of Brant, Ontario
http://www.archive.org/details/historybrant00unknuoft

Census Project
http://ontariocensus.rootsweb.ancestry.com/

Brant County GenWeb
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onbrant/

Brant County Genealogy
http://comdir.bfree.on.ca/brantogs/



Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Monday 23 June 08 13:18 BST (UK)
Don't know if they were in Brantford or not as yet. I'm still researching. Thanks for the interest any help most useful.
Ruari
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Monday 23 June 08 14:24 BST (UK)
Janice,
Many thanks for all the links. I've been away for the week-end and am only just catching up. Certainly the 1861 and '71 census is the right family. I notice in the 1861 that they're all listed as being born in Canada and I know John, his then wife Sarah and his son Thomas were born in Dumfries-shire. Do you think this was an enumerator error or the family being economical with the truth for some reason? William C listed in the 1871 is, in fact, William Kirkpatrick named after his mother.
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: KarenM on Monday 23 June 08 14:41 BST (UK)
Death Registration for:

William Kirkpatrick McNaught
Age: 73 years
Date of Death:  Feb. 2, 1919
Place of Birth:  Fergus, Ontario
Place of Death:  614 Huron Street
Toronto
Occupation:  Manager
Parents - left blank


K
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: KarenM on Monday 23 June 08 14:46 BST (UK)
Is John McNaught's wife Margaret Jackson?

Karen
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Monday 23 June 08 18:31 BST (UK)
John married Sarah Kirkpatrick 1834 in Dumfries-shire, Scotland and , as yet, I've no idea when she died. However, John remarried I believe about 1852 to a Margaret Campbell (at least that's the surname I've recorded) although checking my records I don't appear to have a reference. Their children were Sarah Marion, Henry and Joseph. There was also James b.1849, now I'm not sure if he was Sarah's last child or possibly born out of wedlock to Margaret Campbell/Jackson! It would appear he was born about the same time as John junior.
Ruari
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: KarenM on Monday 23 June 08 18:42 BST (UK)
There is a death registration for Sarah Mary Ann McNaught, born Brantford March 19, 1855.  Parents are John McNaught and Margaret Jackson both born Scotland.  Sarah died at the age of 73 in Mitchell, Ontario County of Perth and is listed as single.

Mrs. H.A. McNaught, sister in law is the informant (HA looks like Henry Alexander)

K
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Monday 23 June 08 19:45 BST (UK)
This looks interesting as Henry was her brothers name but I've no note of his being also an Alexander. Mitchell does feature elsewhere in my research and McNaught is not the most common of names so it all looks promising. I just wish I knew where I got the surname Campbell from. >:(
Thanks again
Ruari
PS if you need any help from Central, Tayside, Fife Scotland let me know as I'd like to reciprocate.
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Monday 23 June 08 20:04 BST (UK)
The offer extended to Karen applies equally to you Janice as I'm still trawling through the links you sent. Some information I already had, which has been confirmed but others were totally new to me. It's interesting to note that although David was John's eldest son he did have an elder daughter who never made it to Canada. However, she did go to Australia with Johns' youngest brother David. A somewhat enterprising family!
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 02 July 08 22:07 BST (UK)
Henry Alexander McNaught
born 1857 - death Nov. 17th, 1931 - Elma, Perth, Ont.
age 74 years 7 months 13 days/ Spouse Rebecca
parents John Mcnaught & Margaret Jackson

wife Rebecca ( DETWILLER see url below birth of Sarah Mildred)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~births/McL_McW_Surnames.htm

Janice, just saw the 1871 entry which shows more children then mentioned...
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 02 July 08 22:20 BST (UK)
Think there may have been another daughter? Just in case mother's name was
spelled wrong, as was in Mitchell, Perth, Ont.
http://search.labs.familysearch.org
Matilda Mcpherson - widow- born 1848 Ont. - death March 29, 1915
Mitchell, Perth, Ontario / age 67
parents John Mcnaught &  Sarah Kilpatrick

Matilda is "Natilda" in 1881 census with husband Thomas in Logan, Perth North, Ont.


Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 02 July 08 22:42 BST (UK)
Hmmmm....might there be another mother in the mix as well?
http://search.labs.familysearch.org
John Mcnaught - born 1850
death - March 18 1918 - Logan, perth, Ont.
Parents - John McNaught & Helen Spry.. (Note: Not accurate ).


In 1881 the only John, scottish descent born circa 1850 is in Grey, Huron Centre, Ont.
with wife  Ellen & three children...living right next to" Henery" sister Sarah & widow Margaret...
    
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 02 July 08 22:48 BST (UK)
No that was his wife's maiden name....Ellen Spry, as here is the marriage of
daughter Maud in 1902...so that was a major error...
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maryc/huron02.htm

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maryc/perth1923p2.htm
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 03 July 08 00:36 BST (UK)
wait a minute...looking at the 1861, Margaret was on the 1871, but Sarah was still alive on the 1861, so she gave birth to all the children, ( including a Robert ) so her death had to be post 1871...so Margaret was not the birth mother of any of the children...but she surely had a lot of children to look after....
Quite the lady, I'd say...
 
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Thursday 03 July 08 00:40 BST (UK)
John and Sarah had children Elizabeth, David, Thomas, Margaret, William Kirkpatrick, Frances Matilda and John. John and 2nd wife Margaret had  James, Sarah Marion, Henry and Joseph.
John married Ellen Spry and their children were Charles Edward, Raymond Alexander, Maud Eloise, Frances Rosalie, Caroline L.,William Ewart Glada, Henry Lawrence, Ella Jane, Norman Leslie, Laura Winifred, Edna Robenis and Minnie Edna.
Elizabeth, John eldest daughter, went to Australia with John youngest brother David all the rest of his children went to Canada.
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Thursday 03 July 08 00:46 BST (UK)
I don't have a Robert noted anywhere in the mix! Where did he come from???
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 03 July 08 00:49 BST (UK)
I think you may have overlooked Janice's reply here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,310811.msg1923493.html#msg1923493

as Sarah is very much alive and with ALL the children in 1861.... :D J.J.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OOOPs, but looking again, I saw the next on list Robert as surname Mcnaught, sorry about the brain melt, there!
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Thursday 03 July 08 01:09 BST (UK)
Back to the drawing board with the 2nd wife then. I did notice Robert but he's not offspring of John. I THINK he may be his cousin as there was a Robert of the right age born in Penpont to his Uncle William. That's if you ignore the fact that he appears in the 1861 in Penpont. ???
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 03 July 08 02:13 BST (UK)
Well you now have the proper name for the second wife, but the marriage would have been post 1861, that's all, and whomever gave the death information for the two ( Sarah & John Jr. ) must have thought the second wife was their mother...
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 03 July 08 02:40 BST (UK)
 :D We seem to have covered a lot, but no death for John Sr.... :-\

http://www.rootschat.com/links/03rh/
rellies?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03ri/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McNaught
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Thursday 03 July 08 14:21 BST (UK)
The first reference is definitely my first cousin 3x removed. The second I've no knowledge of but the third is my third cousin once removed but I have him as marrying Agnes Sarah Evelyn Ballard but at an earlier date. As usual with Wikipedia you don't get the full story. It would appear he may have been married 3 times as his widow appears to be a Emily. Quite a prolific family though I don't have much info from that time.
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: robbra on Wednesday 09 March 11 05:13 GMT (UK)
I am a first time user and couldn't believe you were discussing John McNaught, my great great grandfather.  Wonderful to know about the Canadian side, I am Elizabeth McNaught's Australian great grandaughter.

Robbra
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Wednesday 09 March 11 13:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Robbra, I'm away from home at the moment on my mobile but would be interested to know more of your end of the family. I have done extensive research on the family with some 11,000 links. I'll be in touch again on my return home. Cuz Ruari.
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 09 March 11 15:42 GMT (UK)
great that we can get family members together...welcome robbra  !
Oramazda ...For your records...In case you hadn't seen the divorce of McNaught & Ballard in 1931
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/divorce/001070-119.01-e.php?id=2151

Were there any blanks we hadn't filled in for you, as there is always new information available...
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: robbra on Wednesday 09 March 11 21:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the replies ! We travelled to the UK some years ago and visited Thornhill, Penpont with John's parents gravestones and stayed in a wee bothy at Tynron where John McNaught and Sarah Kirkpatrick married.

I can't find a birth/christening for Elizabeth McNaught.  Her age varies according to various records.  I believe she was born about 1834, the year her parents married.  I assume she was left with her grandparents back in Penpont.  Does anyone know when John and Sarah emmigrated to Canada?

Robbra
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Wednesday 09 March 11 23:14 GMT (UK)
I believe that John had a grain business in Penpont that failed he then left for Canada about 1842. "McNaught John 1811-1873 from Penpont, DFS. s/o David M. and Margaret Corrie To Ont. Ca. 1842 M. Sarah Kilpatrick. Ch 1 Elizabeth went to Aus. 2. Margaret 3. David b. Ca 1839 4. Thomas 1841-1921 DC 23 Oct 1981". John died in 1877 at , Tuckersmith, Ontario. I've yet to discover when Sarah died. I have births and deaths of all his children with the exception of Elizabeth's birth which I have at about 1836 and James birth about 1853 and death ? Elizabeth I have recorded as having died in 1908 in Geelong, Australia though no exact date. You could confirm for me Her husbands dates and I have four children listed. I have a copy of her Uncle David (John's youngest brother) will which is interesting in that he wrote her out of it as he believed her to be well catered for by her husband John Boyd. I am descended from John's brother William and it was his daughter Emily that went out to Australia to replace Elizabeth as Davids housekeeper. On Davids death Emily, his main beneficiary, returned to join her sister in Thornhill and eventually died there in the same house both her father and uncle James died in.
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Wednesday 09 March 11 23:22 GMT (UK)
Hi J.J. Many thanks for the Ballard information I was not aware of it for as you can see I'm still joining up the pieces. Some time ago I was in touch with a living ancestor of John's line in Canada however he's not replied to my last two e-mails so I'm not sure if he's departed this mortal coil or decided he no longer wishes to pursue a relationship. A pity as I'm sure he'd have a lot to contribute. You'll note that I did eventually get  a answer to my original post.
You win some and you lose some but hopefully you win more than you lose.
Best wishes
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: robbra on Thursday 10 March 11 10:19 GMT (UK)
JJ thanks for the welcome.  Are you a descendant of John McNaught.  We here in Australia think the McNaughts / Boyds were "shy breeders" but not so in Canada. I have photos of Canadian rels but have no idea who they are.

Oramazda, I have a Margaret, Louis, John and Emily as children of William.  Were there others ? Who are you a descendant of?  I guess we are ggg grandchildren of David and Margaret Mcnaught. John Mc doesn't seem to appear in the 1841 census, but my Elizabeth seems to be there with her grandparents.  Thanks for the info.

Robbra
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Thursday 10 March 11 19:49 GMT (UK)
William, my GG grandfather, married Dedimiah Dawes and lived in Reigate Surrey until her death when he returned to live with his sister in Thornhill. They had 8 children Margaret Amy, Frances (Fanny, probably named after her grandmother), Elizabeth, William, Charles Henry, Jessie Janet (not sure of this one as Janet could be Jessie if you see what I mean), Emily, and Louis Arthur in that order. I'm interested to know where you think John fits in as I've no record of this family having a John. I have a Daguerreotype and a portrait of William up in my attic, very dapper not surprising since he was a draper to trade.
Johns' family in Canada seem to have made quite a name for themselves in government especially William Kirkpatrick, a conservative and David, a liberal must have made for interesting conversation at the dinner table!
I really must try to renew the acquaintance of our cousin in Canada if he's still around.
Incidentally David in Ballarat seems to have been a bit of a philanthropist and while he died unmarried he was quite a wealthy man.
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: J.J. on Friday 11 March 11 16:27 GMT (UK)
Not a relative, just a rootschatter in Canada... ;D
If the thread is completed just modify the original posting subject line to
 "Completed *John McNaught " and someone will eventually put it in the completed section, where it may be revived at any time...
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: robbra on Tuesday 15 March 11 02:53 GMT (UK)
Oramazda great photo of William Mcnauaght, thankyou. Amazing family resemblance to brother David and even niece Elizabeth. I am attatching a photo of Elizabeth Macnaught and John Boyd about their wedding time of 1866.  They had 4 children Margaret (Maggie), Wilhelmina (Min), William ( Will my grandfather) and Frances (Fan). My great grandmother must have given a simple family tree to one of the older grandchildren. I have a copy and it said 4 children to your William - Margaret, Louis and John and Emily. No other facts.  Since it is only you and I exchanging information now about McNaughts, are you happy if I send personal messages?
Title: Re: John McNaught death circa 1873
Post by: Oramazda on Tuesday 15 March 11 22:04 GMT (UK)
Delighted to PM and I've been trying to catch you on at the same time as myself to do so but we never seem to have clicked! You in Oz and me in Scotland with a ten hour difference makes for difficulties.