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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: BonWifi on Friday 13 June 08 17:08 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I hope someone with better hunting skills then I(me) can find Hartley Westland. I have him listed as father of Alfred Westland. I found this on Alfred's marriage certificate. Alfred and Ann Alexander were married 1850 at Primitive Methodists Chapel Donington, Spalding. In the census I have found Westland spelled Weslan and then Wesley. After the 1881 census Wesley seemed to stick.
Alfred and Ann both signed with an X which might explain how or why the name spelling changed. Anyway If anyone can find Hartley I would be grateful.
Thank you all for this message group
Bonnie
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Hi Bonnie,
I'm wondering if Alfred told a little white lie about his father when he married. Have you seen this extracted christening suggesting he was born to a single mother?
ALFRED WESTLAND
Christening 29 DEC 1827 Holland Fen Church, Lincolnshire
Mother SARAH WESTLAND
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Can find nothing on 1841 or 1851 for Hartley, sorry
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Hi Bonnie,
I'm wondering if Alfred told a little white lie about his father when he married. Have you seen this extracted christening suggesting he was born to a single mother?
ALFRED WESTLAND
Christening 29 DEC 1827 Holland Fen Church, Lincolnshire
Mother SARAH WESTLAND
I was thinking the same Tati ... there's a submitted entry which names the father simply as "Hartley" and mother as Sarah WESTLAND.
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Do you have access to a possible marriage for Sarah, Geoff?
Nice choice of name for the father anyway 8)
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I know that Alfred's daughter Rose Jane had a child out of wedlock. It was my Grandfather Edward Wesley. So Alfred's mother Sarah may have a simular thing.
Thank you for your very rapid responce.
Bonnie
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Do you have access to a possible marriage for Sarah, Geoff?
Nice choice of name for the father anyway 8)
All I have around that time is
21 Sept 1828 at Boston
Sarah WESTLAND (widow) to Joseph WOOLMER
A burial at Gedney
6 Feb 1891 Sarah WOOLMER (79) (nothing on Joseph) ...EDIT: her husband was Thomas WOOLMORE in 1861 :(
Sorry - must go, I am cooking chips!
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Do I have this right?
Sarah Westland was born 1811
Sarah Westland had Alfred out of wedlock.
then about 9 months later she married Joseph/Thomas Woolmore
then She died 6 Feb 1891 as Sarah WOOLMER age 79
Any chance Joseph and Thomas were brothers? Thomas married this brothers wife after something happened to Joseph?
This is great information. It is so nice to have help.
You all are so good.
Thank you
Bonnie
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Do I have this right?
Sarah Westland was born 1811
Sarah Westland had Alfred out of wedlock.
then about 9 months later she married Joseph/Thomas Woolmore
then She died 6 Feb 1891 as Sarah WOOLMER age 79
Any chance Joseph and Thomas were brothers? Thomas married this brothers wife after something happened to Joseph?
This is great information. It is so nice to have help.
You all are so good.
Thank you
Bonnie
NO! I'm not sure of anything at the moment. ???
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OK ... Thomas WOOLMER married Sarah STOW at Holbeach in 1841 ... this means that this Sarah was nothing to do with your lot. :)
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I found this.
International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Sarah Westland - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: About 1806 Of Holland Fen, , Lincoln, England
Matches: International Genealogical Index/British Isles - 1
But it says it was submitted 1991 not like it was found in a "normal" record. Is that what submitted is? Something that might be able to cross check?
Bonnie
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:P
perhaps the Hartley meant 'Hartley known'? :P
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I found this.
International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Sarah Westland - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: About 1806 Of Holland Fen, , Lincoln, England
Matches: International Genealogical Index/British Isles - 1
But it says it was submitted 1991 not like it was found in a "normal" record. Is that what submitted is? Something that might be able to cross check?
Bonnie
Submitted records may be transcribed from registers ... but such records never say "about".
In this case, we have the baptism of the son of an unmarried mother (Alfred of Sarah) in 1827 ... fact.
The submitter then answers some questions which he/she poses to him/herself.
"How old was she when she gave birth?" ... "About 21"
"Where did she come from?" ... "Same place as the son's baptism, I suppose"
"So that's ..." "About 1806 Holland Fen". "Yes of course, that's what I'll write down." ::)
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"How old was she when she gave birth?" ... "About 21"
Or 'about 20' : She also had a James, christened 20 April 1826 (whom I can't find on later census at all)
;)
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There was a James WESLEY buried at Boston in 1854 aged 27, I can't see him either.
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I'm over helmed. ;) But I love all the help. It seems that Sarah Westland
b 1806, single mother of James and Alfred is my Sarah? Hartley was a way for Alfred to avoid all the abuse that "bastard" son would get back then.
Thank you all so much.
Bonnie
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GeoffE, tate and all
How about this scenario? When Alfred was about to marry the minister ask who is your father? He said the Gentleman Hartley. (As I have been hunting Hartley turns up as a last name. I checked the baby names all over the internet and fine that less then 2% have hartley as a first name.)
Alfred's marriage certificate gives father name as Hartley and the father rank or profession as Gentlemen. Thinking about it, maybe Sarah Westland was a Mistress of a "Gentleman Hartley". Like he was too high in social rank to claim his son. Life was different back then ;)
Bonnie
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There's certainly a likelihood that Hartley was a name of his father - forename or surname - more likely the latter.
Someone connected to my tree gave his grandfather as his father at one marriage, then his real father's surname (as a forename) at another marriage.
Looking at the National Burial Index, there are 10 HARTLEY males born 1800-10 buried in Lincs.
Skirbeck 3
Lincoln 2
Gainsborough
Haxey
Folkingham
Gedney
Cleethorpes
I doubt this will lead anywhere unfortunately. :(
P.S. Yes, this is Lincolnshire, famous for its "tates". The lady whom you have just called a potato is Tati ;)
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oh darn I'm sorry for the typo Tati.
Bonnie
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LOL, no prob ;D ;D
Love tatties, me. Especially with oodles of butter 8)