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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: tawnyren on Thursday 12 June 08 14:23 BST (UK)
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Hi can anyone help with marriage or parents of Thomas Smalley b 1794 Grantham Lincoln married Mary 1813 in Grantham, their children are Mildred, Elizabeth, Maria and Allen
Cheers
Sonja
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Following "submitted" IGI entries can be unwise at times. In this case, the "marriage" is simple the year before the first known baptism.
Perhaps my guesswork can point you in a better direction :)
I will start with a burial of the quaintly named Thomas Ancient SMALLEY at Grantham 18 Dec 1839 aged 38.
Looking at the IGI finds his baptism 28 Oct 1802 in Lincoln, son of Thomas and Mary. I think they may well be the parents you seek ... they had 6 children bap in Lincoln 1802-10 - then perhaps moved to Grantham and had the four that you mentioned.
Unfortunately, I can't find a marriage :(
Someone called Thomas Ancient SMALLEY married in Little Steeping in 1836; this area between Spilsby and Skegness seems to be where people with the surname ANCIENT came from. Perhaps his mother was a Mary ANCIENT.
Only guesswork :-[
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Hi
try this
Thomas smalley 1793 Barrowby Dorothy Hardy
Barry
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Hi
try this
Thomas smalley 1793 Barrowby Dorothy Hardy
Barry
Their kids included
1794 John
1795 Hannah
1796 Charles
so not much spare time to have a Thomas who allegedly married in 1813. :(
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Could have been a very short pregnancy!!!
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Hi Beady and GeoffE
Thanks for all of your help and time with this family, Oh so confused, Thomas and Mary's daughter Mildred was apparently born abt 1814 Wainfleet, christened in Grantham, she married Thomas Brader in Fulettby in 1835, the other children born Elizabeth 1816 Grantham, Maria 1818 Grantham and Allen 1820 Grantham, Beady with the names of Thomas and Dorothy are you saying her surname is Hardy of Barry? or is Hardy her middle name and maybe an earlier family name?
GeoffE, The Thomas Ancient Smalley you mention would have been born too early as Thomas and Mary were married in 1813, makes him too young to be father also, he prob ties in somewhere as smalley would not have been a too common name.
Cheers
Sonja
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Hi Sonja
Obviously I haven't expressed things too well :)
All you appeared to have was four baptisms of SMALLEY kids in Grantham starting at 1814, children of Thomas and Mary SMALLEY.
You don't have a marriage in 1813 (at Grantham or anywhere else), nor do you have a birth in c1794 ... these are suggestions by the person who submitted stuff to the IGI - they appear to have no basis in FACT.
SMALLEY is not a particularly rare name in certain areas - over 200 in Lincs in 1851.
http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/Map.aspx?name=SMALLEY&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name
I started off by looking for SMALLEY burials in Grantham and found Thomas Ancient SMALLEY in 1839 aged 38. I found that he was bap in Lincoln in 1802, son of Thomas and Mary, one of 6 kids born to this couple in Lincoln in the period 1802-1810. I noted that these parents had the same first names as those of the parents who had four kids bap in Grantham 1814-20.
My theory is that Thomas and Mary had these children in Lincoln, then moved to Grantham and had some more.
I remarked that Thomas Ancient SMALLEY married in Little Steeping. Now you say that Mildred was born in Wainfleet, which is only 2 or 3 miles from Little Steeping. I am suggesting that he was her brother, not her father.
I also said that the surname ANCIENT was most common in the Spilsby/Skegness area (which includes Wainfleet).
If you thought that SMALLEY was an uncommon name, then I would suggest that "Mildred" is also rare. And ANCIENT even rarer ... yet there are two Mildred ANCIENTs bap at Little Steeping in the IGI. Also, my marriage index has two three Mildred ANCIENT marriages, both in that area. Clearly Mildred was a name used by the ANCIENTs.
The problem is, I can't find a Thomas SMALLEY/Mary ANCIENT marriage to back up any of this speculation. Nor can I find suitable burials for the couple.
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Hi Tawnyren
Just to clarify..
Marriage (From the IGI )
Thomas Smalley
Dorothy Hardy
28 July 1793 in Barrowby-Lincolnshire.
You can search the IGI for free at www.familysearch.org.
Best wishes
Jane
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The IGI batch from which the original "info" was obtained from is F610216
It contains the following SMALLEY "events"
1. DAVID SMALLEY Birth: About 1805 Grantham, Lincoln, England
2. MRS. MARY SMALLEY Birth: About 1806 Grantham, Lincoln, England
3. DAVID SMALLEY Marriage: 1825
4. MRS. MARY SMALLEY Marriage: 1825
5. EDWARD SMALLEY Marriage: 28 JUL 1806
6. EDWARD SMALLEY Birth: About 1781 Grantham, Lincoln, England
7. SAMUEL SMALLEY Birth: About 1798 Little Gonerby, Lincoln, England
8. MRS. MARY SMALLEY Birth: About 1800 Little Gonerby, Lincoln, England
9. SAMUEL SMALLEY Marriage: 1816
10. MRS. MARY SMALLEY Marriage: 1816
11. THOMAS SMALLEY Birth: About 1794 Grantham, Lincoln, England
12. MRS. MARY SMALLEY Birth: About 1794 Grantham, Lincoln, England
13. THOMAS SMALLEY Marriage: 1813
14. MRS. MARY SMALLEY Marriage: 1813
15. WILLIAM SMALLEY Birth: About 1788 Grantham, Lincoln, England
16. ANN SMALLEY Birth: About 1790 Grantham, Lincoln, England
17. WILLIAM SMALLEY Marriage: 1809
18. ANN SMALLEY Marriage: 1809
The only thing that can be readily substantiated is the marriage of Edward SMALLEY to Mary BAILEY. The births are all "about". The marriages are all to Mrs SMALLEY. It's all made up.
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Geoff
I think your a bit out of order to say "it is all made up"
Sonja is not an experienced Rootschatter and yes it is very wise to point out, where the IGI is concerned the difference between Submitted and Extracted entries..but to suggest its all made up is nonsense.
Jane :o
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It's all made up.
Hi Tawnyren
On Sisterjane's suggestion, I will rephrase that.
I have listed above the occurence of SMALLEYs in the IGI batch which contains the Thomas SMALLEY references. Having checked the extracted IGI batches* (see below), my BIVRI2 disks and my Lincs Marriage Index, the only one of those events for which I can find any verification at all is the marriage of Edward SMALLEY in 1806.
In my opinion, all of the other alleged listed events are highly speculative and should be treated with utmost caution (unless of course verification can be obtained, which is what you were trying to do in the first place.)
*Extracted IGI batches, usually the numbers begin with a C or an M, have been transcribed from parish registers and ought to be pretty reliable (but should be checked, it is only an index).
Submitted IGI batches - provide data which has not necessarily been verified. In this case the batch begins with an F - and assumes that a couple married the year before the first known child was baptised. If a couple failed to have a couple of children christened, changed villages or many other possibilities, then the speculative marriage date may be several years out. Many of these submitted batches assume that a person was a certain age (e.g. 25 for a man, 21 for a woman) at the time of their marriage. ... So you can have a date of birth based on the date of a marriage that didn't take place on the stated date. I must confess, that is what I meant by "made up" ... I'm struggling to find an alternative expression I'm afraid. ;)
I believe that this was the case with the SMALLEYs - they had several children in Lincoln before reaching Grantham - this too is speculative of course! I am unable to find a marriage for them too.
The links between SMALLEYs, Grantham, Little Steeping, the ANCIENTs, Mildreds etc were too strong for me to ignore and I feel that is where your folks came from.
For a fuller explanation about the different types of IGI batches (but no warnings about the shortcomings of certain batches) see http://globalgenealogy.com/globalgazette/gazfd/gazfd36.htm
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Hi Geoff
I take your point abot everything being "Mr Smalley" and even Ive learned something from your last post about the "F" letter I didnt know it indicated that it was assumed the couple married in the year before so thank you for that.
It was only the "its all made up" part that I thought was a bit off-putting but im glad you clarified it..
Jane
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Hi Geoff
Thankyou for explaining the way igi works, i had know idea how the batch numbers worked and have now gone on to read a great deal about them, Thankyou also for your help, it is much appreciated
Cheers
Sonja