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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Berwickshire => Topic started by: excel on Thursday 12 June 08 12:42 BST (UK)
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[There is no link between my Cowe ancestors and those in another recent post.]
Looking for anyone connected to this family:
James Cowe c1803 and Euphemia Collin 1802 had a large family all born Eyemouth between c1825 and 1845 - Helen, James, Robert, Andrew, Agnes, William, Joseph, Euphemia, John, Alison, Isabel, Patricia.
James [1803] was alive at the time of the 1841 census but Euphemia was a widow in the 1851 census.
Rae
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Hi there,
I believe that Helen Cowe (b. c1825) is my great great great grandmother. I am very interested in finding out more about her, especially her marriage to Edward Cromwell (or it could be David Cromwell). I have some more info on the Cowe family from a 3rd party.
Cheers,
Kenny
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...actually that 3rd party is probably you on GenesReunited :) , you'll have a couple of messages from me if it is!
Cheers,
Kenny
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I had her down as Euphemia Colon not Collin and the 1851 had her as Euphan.
Andrew Cowe ( 1829) married Isabel Rae 1856 Coldstream.
Her parents were Robert Rae & Helen Johnston.
She had a brother Peter Johnston Rae who married a Isabel Aitchison 1866 Coldingham.
Isabel's parents were Peter Aitchison and Isabel Wait, in my wife's tree.
Have the family from the 1851 census but not Patricia and I see that James was a widower but don't have wife.
Barry
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Kenny, I have replied through G.R.
Beckey, thanks for the reply. Andrew Cowe and Isabel Rae were married 26 Sept 1856, Coldingham; her parents Robert and Helen. I haven't followed up any of her siblings in any detail so far. At the moment I am trying to work out where the Patricia came from. Will look into it later today if I have time.
Euphemia Cowe, nee Colon/Collin has gone under several names but I have tended to use Collin as the main one.
Rae
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Hello Barry,
Have had a look at my notes and see that I found Patricia's birth on LDS. I have tried the free search on SP which has confirmed that she was chr 7 Jan 1845, Eyemouth. Parents: James and Eu*.
As she wasn't in any of the census returns I presume that she must have died young.
Thanks for the information about Peter Johnston Rae.
Rae
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Hi Rae,
Just for info. there are no Cowe burials in the pre 1855 M.I.'s for Eyemouth, a couple of Collins.
Have Cowe,Colven,Rae & Thorburn in Aitchison tree but mainly Coldingham.
Barry.
There is something I found that could be of interest.
A Catherine Susan Rae ca. 1826 Coldingham sister of Isabel, married ca.1850 to Robert Cowe ca. 1828 Eyemouth was living Coldingham 1851.
Catherine died 1897 St Abbs as widow, can't find Roberts death to confirm parents.
1861 Coldingham Shore with James,Robert,Joseph,Helen & Ann.
1881 10 Under Row, Coldingham with Joseph,Agnes,& Annie.
May be a connection.
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Helen Cowe (born c1825) died in Eyemouth on 12th October 1858 a widow and a pauper. Place of death is listed as "Cormacks Property, Eyemouth", place of burial is "Eyemouth Graveyard".
Regards,
Kenny
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James Cowe born 31/12/1803
christ. 17/1/1804 at Hutton Berwick
father David Cowe
mother Helen Sharp
audrey
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Euphan Collins
born 7/2/1802
Christ 14/2/1802 at Eyemouth
father Robert Collins
mother Helen Patterson
the name for both Collins /collin Cowe/cow keeps changing even in the same children with the same parents
audrey
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Thank you for the information, Audrey. I didn't have the birth of James that you gave. I think that following the naming pattern of James and Euphemia's children that his parents were probably James Cow c1780 [may have been born Cockburnspath] and Agnes Crombie 1779, Eyemouth.
This is just a bit of guess work on my part though.
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sorry I dont have that one
audrey
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According to IGI, James Cow married Agnes Crombie 19/12/1802 Coldingham and there was a James Cowe baptised 5/7/1803 Coldingham and the naming pattern seems to agree.
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I must be being a bit thick but where are the details for the Cowe/Cow family in the 1851 census, I can't find them! Is Helen still living with the family?
Thanks,
Kenny
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To but in, Euphan is in Eyemouth Village with 8 children, Helen is not there.
Have looked in what 51 census I have and does not show up nor on SP nor under Cromwell
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Hi Beckey, are the 8 children, James, Robert, Andrew, Agnes, William, Joseph, Euphemia and John?
Thanks,
Kenny
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James Cowe born 31/12/1803
christ. 17/1/1804 at Hutton Berwick
father David Cowe
mother Helen Sharp
audrey
Hi Audrey,
Your James Cowe does not appear to be the same James Cowe mentioned in the original post.
Please read here :
http://history.earthsci.carleton.ca/harvey/genealogy/cowe8.htm
Your James Cowie emmigrated to New Brunswick from Berwick-upon-Tweed in 1837 with wife Isabelle Donaldson, his mother-in-law Mary (Aitkens) Donaldson, age 50; and three children: Eleanor, age 7; Mary, age 4; and David, age 1 ½ yr.
Regards,
Kenny
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1851.
Euphan 48 w.
James 23 w.
Andrew 21.
Agnes 20.
Joseph 15.
Euphan 12.
John 10.
Alison 8.
Isabella 6.
Margret 2 G/D.
Robert could be in Coldingham marrying a Rae, William ? could be G/S 4 with William Craig/Isabella Craig Eymouth Vill. just a guess.
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Thanks Beckey.
I wonder where the ellusive Helen was living :-\ She would be around 27 in 1851, I'm assuming she would be married to my gr gr gr grandfather Edward Cromwell (another person I can't find in the 1851 census).
Cheers,
Kenny
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I am hoping to go into Edinburgh sometime in the next few months to have a day [and the rest!] trying to sort out the Cowes. The family probably originated from the Cockburnspath family but I just seem to be getting myself in knots at the moment.
Beckey, sorry, I am getting lost in this post and didn't see your reply! In answer to your information of 11 July - yes, that is Isabella's sister living at St Abbs. I haven't gone into her details so can't give any update re. Robert but may piece it altogether soon!
Rae
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Rae, any light you could shed on this would be greatly appreciated, obviously if I come up with anything in the meantime I will let you know.
Regards,
Kenny
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James Cowe born 31/12/1803
christ. 17/1/1804 at Hutton Berwick
father David Cowe
mother Helen Sharp
audrey
This James is my 5g Uncle and he married Isabella Donaldson 17th March 1826 in Hutton Berwickshire. David and Helen Sharp are my 5g grandparents
Hope this helps
Terry
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Refering to William Cowe above my guess was wrong, he was 7 in 1841.
In "Black Friday" by Peter Aitchison there is a reference to a William Cowe son of the late James Cowe, fisherman, died aged 13 23/11/1849 in cholera epidemic.
1861 Eyemouth, New Row - 1 room.
Euphemia Cowe H Wid. 59 W.of Fisherman Eyemouth.
John Cowe S U 21 Fisherman "
Margaret Cowe D U 12 "
William Cowe S 4 "
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James Cowe born 31/12/1803
christ. 17/1/1804 at Hutton Berwick
father David Cowe
mother Helen Sharp
audrey
This James is my 5g Uncle and he married Isabella Donaldson 17th March 1826 in Hutton Berwickshire. David and Helen Sharp are my 5g grandparents
Hope this helps
Terry
Hi Terry,
David Cowe and Helen Sharp are my 6g grandparents! Cowe scatterling here in South Africa! Descendant of John Cowe (m Elizabeth Watson), brother of James Cowe mentioned in the original post
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Hi Sharonv,
I too have come down the line from John Cowe/Elizabeth Watson have PM'd you.
Terry
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Hi Terry,
Thanks, received your PM. I am new to Rootschat and unable to reply to personal messages. (I read somewhere you need to have posted at least 5 posts to access this functionality..?)
I am very eager to share info and will PM as soon as I can. My lineage: John/Elizabeth Watson, David/Mary Delagty, David/Alice Goodall. They had a son Aleaxander who is my great grandfather. He was born in Duns in 1880. Not sure when exactly he came to SA but he was enlisted in the Boer War here in 1901.
Regards
Sharon
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I have PM'd my e mail address
Terry
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Just to stick my nose in - as I always seem to do ::)
There is another Helen Cowe who died in Eyemouth (I presume, as there's a stone in the Old Burial Ground in the town centre.)
The MI reads:
Erected by William Scott in memory of his mother NELLY COWE died 7th January 1861 aged 35 years
Also his father JOHN SCOTT who died 10th September 1873 aged 50 years
And his brother JAMES? SCOTT …. ….? March 1874
'Nelly or Nellie' is a pet form of Helen and working out her date of birth from her age at death, she would have been born round about 1806.
Sorry if I'm getting mixed up with the generations!
Anne
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Sorry, must have clicked 'Post' twice as this message was a duplicate of the last.
Anne
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Hi Anne,
Thanks for that. I think Nelly Cowe was James and Euphemia's daughter but will confirm that when I am next in Edinburgh or have some credits on S.P. I did a free search on S.P. for a 1861 death, using Scott, Helen, other name Cowe and mother's maiden name, Collin, plus birth date of 1825 +/- 2yrs and there was one match so I am sure that you are correct.
Rae
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Refering to William Cowe above my guess was wrong, he was 7 in 1841.
In "Black Friday" by Peter Aitchison there is a reference to a William Cowe son of the late James Cowe, fisherman, died aged 13 23/11/1849 in cholera epidemic.
1861 Eyemouth, New Row - 1 room.
Euphemia Cowe H Wid. 59 W.of Fisherman Eyemouth.
John Cowe S U 21 Fisherman "
Margaret Cowe D U 12 "
William Cowe SW 4 "
Hello Beckey,
I think that the Margaret and William in the 1861 Census were grandchildren, although I don't think it says so on the sheet, but in 1851 Census Margaret aged 2 was entered as a granddaughter.
Rae
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Hi Rae,
I've just had another look at the photo and there's another name on the stone. I think it says:
"Also his step .......? MARIA GARWOOD? died 29th? November 1898?"
I've attached a copy of the photo and as you'll see, there could well be more names on it but as you'll see, the base of it is buried. It also looks as though it's been concreted to the wall?
If you want copies of this photo and a couple of close ups of the inscription, send me a Pm with your personal e-mail. Unfortunately when I took them, I didn't notice the reminder of the inscription.
Anne
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Hi Excel,
Thought it was funny, but that was what was transcribed, ignore the W caught 2 keys.
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Hi Anne,
Thank you very much for the photo. It is a good one. The ones I took in Coldingham are not nearly as clear as yours as I don't seem to have the knack, also it was monsoon weather which didn't help! I have transferred yours onto my viewer and see the Maria Garwood reference. Yet something else to look into! I thought I had looked all over that cemetery for Cowes but must have missed that one. Hopefully I will be in the area in September and, if I have time, will have another look at it. I thought that that cemetery was for those who died much further back. Have you looked at the newer cemetery? I'm not sure if there are M.I's for it.
Best wishes,
Rae
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Hi Rae,
We were on a short break (supposedly to chill out) in the area in May of this year, but as usual, I couldn't content myself without having a good old wander round whatever cemetery I could find.
I photographed and transcribed all the stones in the Old Burial Ground as best as I could and only discovered the newer cemetery the day before we were leaving to come home.
I'm a member of the Scottish War Graves Project (http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/index.php?mforum=scottishwargraves) so as quickly as I could, I tried to locate all the war/military graves to post on that site. From memory, I might have a couple which aren't in this 'category' but I don't think there's very many.
I was quite amazed at the amount of stones all bearing the same surnames over and over again but I suppose in most small communities this is the norm.
if I can help you out with photos or transcriptions for either place, please let me know. I can't obviously guarantee I've made the correct guess at some of the more eroded inscriptions but as we hear on the telly every five minutes - "Every little helps" ;D
Anne
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Thanks for the offer, Anne.
Good luck with your scottish war graves photos.
I have the details of Andrew Cowe and Isabel Rae's son, Robert, [Taken from 'warmemscot' website forum]
COWE, Robert 1582SA Second Hand (Mate) H.M. Drifter “Christina Craig” R.N.R.
Died 5.2.18 Age 48. Son of Andrew and Isabella Cowe of Eyemouth. Husband of Christina Cowe of Gowanlea, Eyemouth.
Commemorated on the Chatham Naval Memorial, Kent.
Listed on the Eyemouth War Memorial.
Rae
It is lovely to chill out around there. The invigorating sea air does wonders!
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Helen Cowe, daughter of James and Euphemia, died on the 12th October 1858 in Eyemouth. I have a copy of her death record.
Cheers,
Kenny
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Hi I am trying to research Gulliema Cowe born coldingham 1881 who married William Meek from eyemouth.
I have been told that both families were promanant in eyemouth
I also have alexander Cowe 1838 Coldingham who married Agnes watherston
best wishes sharon
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Hello Tegan,
Welcome to Rootschat!!
The following MI from a stone in Eyemouth Cemetery will give you some dates to go on:
"Erected by William & Gulielma Meek in loving memory of their dear children
AGNES LOCKIE who died 18th October 1906 aged 1 year 7 months
JOHN who died 25th May 1920 aged 1 year 7 months
Also of the above WILLIAM MEEK died 30th April 1925 aged 45 years
And of A.B. WILLIAM ALEXANDER M.N. younger son of the above
Who was lost off the Bengal …..? by enemy action 7th January 1943 aged 27 years
Also of the above GULIELMA MEEK who died 18th November 1947 aged 67 years"
I have photos of the stone but they were taken on a really sunny day and the sun shining onto the face of it made it quite difficult to photograph. If you'd like copies, send me your e-mail address via a Personal Message and I'll send you copies.
Anne
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Ann thank you very much for that information i would love a copy of the photograph but I haven't used this site before and don't know how to send my e mail address by personal message
kind regards
sharon
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Hi Sharon,
I read your PM before reading this so you managed it fine! The photos are on their way.
Anne
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To clear up any confusion above:
Helen Cowe the daughter of Euphemia Collin and James Cowe died 7 Jan 1861 caused by rupture of the womb during child labour.
Helen and John Scott married at Lamberton Toll in 1844 and they are in Eyemouth in 1851 with 8 month old William. Two children (a boy and a girl) had died before that. They went on to have James, John, Joseph and George.
After Helen's death John married Maria Garwood 18 Dec 1861.
The Helen Cowe who died in 27 Oct 1858 in Eyemouth was the daughter of Edward Cromwell and Cowe was her married name
April
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1861 Eyemouth,Main St. N.E.Side--1 room.
John Scott H W 38 Fisherman Eyemouth.
William S 10 ".
James S 9 ".
John S 6 ".
Joseph S 4 ".
Alice Cowe Serv. U 19 Gen.Serv. ".
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Jings! ::)
John didn't hang about for very long then - marrying Maria Garwood 11 months after the death of poor Helen. I imagine tough, that having 5 small children played a big part in him re-marrying so quickly.
Did the baby survive April?
I notice on the 1861 Cencus which Beckey has just posted, there's no mention of a 3 month old baby in the household - of course, the baby could have been somewhere else at the time. (Cencus taken 7th/8th April)
Anne
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To clear up any confusion above:
Helen Cowe the daughter of Euphemia Collin and James Cowe died 7 Jan 1861 caused by rupture of the womb during child labour.
Helen and John Scott married at Lamberton Toll in 1844 and they are in Eyemouth in 1851 with 8 month old William. Two children (a boy and a girl) had died before that. They went on to have James, John, Joseph and George.
After Helen's death John married Maria Garwood 18 Dec 1861.
The Helen Cowe who died in 27 Oct 1858 in Eyemouth was the daughter of Edward Cromwell and Cowe was her married name
April
Hi April, do you have documentary evidence that the Helen Cowe who died in 1858 was the daughter of Edward Cromwell (Crumwell) and that Cowe is her married name?
Thanks,
Kenny
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In 1841 Eyemouth Village, Milne Court.
James Cowe 38 Fisherman Yes.
Euphemia 38 Yes.
Helen 16 Yes. plus another 8 children.
The age would just fit with the 1851 census.
Do you know the name of the baby at all?
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There's no IGI birth record for the baby and no death following on from Helen's death entry.
With the other Helen, she is recorded as being a widow with surname Cowe and her father's last name is Cromwell, so her married name I presume would be Cowe. I don't have anything further on her.
April
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I think that there is going to be a bit of confusion here, did Helen (James & Euphemia) marry a Cromwell or a Scott, there is no sign of her in 1851,if Cromwell and no sign of a Cromwell at Eyemouth 41/51.
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Thanks for the reply April, but just to add to the confusion I think the father listed on her death record is either her father-in-law or her son, both were hatters (or tailors).
To add even more confusion, Helen Cowe's son, Edward David Cromwell, on his marriage record it details "Helen Bowes" as his mother and David Cromwell as his father. It's just strange that on Helen's death record Edward Cromwell pops up as father. There's a miss-spelling somewhere, either Bowes or Cowe. This is my brick wall by the way!
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On IGI there is only a Joseph b. 25/10/1855 Eyemouth to John Scot & Helen Cowe and the Alice Cowe F.S 1842 could be Alison sister in Law.
Food for thought?
Found George on IGI b. 22/12/1858 Eyemouth to John & Helen, but not in 1861 census.
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Hello everyone,
Some great debates going on here! Unfortunately I haven't yet managed into Edinburgh to follow up on all of this but I think things are definitely becoming clearer, but not, unfortunately, for the Cromwell/Cowe side. I have just been having another look and still can't find a Helen marrying a Cromwell or any births. Where are they hiding?
Thanks April for clearing up the confusion and letting us know that Helen Scott was the daughter of John and Euphemia.
I have no idea of the relationship between Alice and Helen.
Fascinating stuff!
Rae
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My theory would be that Edward David Cromwell born c1844 was the illegitimate son of Helen Cromwell and David(?) Bowes. I have two occasions where the (illegitimate) groom has given the name of their grandfather as their father when they have married.
Helen is on the 1851 census under the name Ellen Cromwell born c1825 Paisley Scotland (nurse/washerwoman) in Queensberry Street, Dumfries. There is a David Bowes in the household aged 11 listed as son of head of the household but more likely to be Helen's son.
David Bowes can then be found in Coldingham in the 1861 census (Occ Tailor) boarding with the Doughty family. Also boarding in the household is 9 year old John Cowe born in England, so this looks to be David's half brother.
April
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To clear matters up, are we now saying that Helen (John & Euphemia) married John Scott 1844 Lamberton and that the Cromwell side does not come into the equasion.
The only reason that I am asking is that the Cowe family come into my wife's tree by marriage through Helen's brother Andrew.
Another thing, in the 1851 census John 26 Fisherman Coldingham,
1861 John 38 Fisherman Eyemouth.
There is no match in 1841 at Coldingham but there is one at Eyemouth.
Doctors Wynd,Eyemouth Vill.
John Scott 45 Fisherman Yes.
Jane 45 "
Isabel 25 " ( IGI bap 21/8/1815 Coldingham).
John 18 ".
George 15 ".
Jane 12 " (IGI 6/2/1827 Coldingham)
plus others. The family are in Eyemouth 1851 all born Coldingham.
Per IGI a John Scott (father William) married Jane Moffat (father John) 20/9/1814 Coldingham.
Hope of some help or just mudding the waters.
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Yes to all the above. A possible connection with Helen Cromwell would be if she married one of the Cowes and was Helen's sister in law.
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That's a very interesting theory April regarding the information you have from the 1851 census. I see that on ancestry.co.uk the name has been transcribed as Ellen Cromwell but on SP it has been transcribed as Eliza. I've looked at the record on SP, the quality is not very good and I can't quite make out the detail. Ellen (or Eliza) Cromwell's condition is married so would Cromwell not be her married name? I can't make out Ellen's relationship to the head of the household, niece, nurse?? It also looks to me that the head of the family is James Bowes, there's a son David Bowes, another two sons, James and Patrick and a lodger that I can't make out.
All very fascinating!
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I've just seen on this website:
www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx
That "Ellen Cromwell" is a nurse in the household of Janet Bennet, Queensbury Street, Dumfries.
So we have:
Jannet Bennet - Head of household, widow, aged 47, born Ireland
Michael Bennet - Son of Jannet, roper apprentice, aged 13, born Ireland
David Bowes - Son of Jannet , aged 11, born Edinburgh
James Bowes, Head of household , married, Traveller, aged 45, born Ireland
Ellen Cromwell, nurse in household, married, washerwoman, aged 26, born in Paisley
Briddy McHarn, lodger, servant, aged 30, born Ireland
James McHarn, lodger, aged 1 month, born Dumfries
Patrick McHarn, lodger, aged 4, born in Ireland
I'm feeling that maybe I shouldn't be part of the Cowe discussion anymore, but it's only because it clearly states Edward Cromwell, a hatter in Paisley, as Helen Cowe's father in her death record of 12th October 1858.
Yours confused,
Kenny
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Hi,
I was just browsing and I saw your thread about the Cowes/Meek connection well Meek is my married name and my husbands grandfather / grandmother were William and Guilema Meek from Eyemouth sorry about the spelling.
they had another son Called David (my father in law)he was born january 1907.
My brother in law has been tracing the Meek family tree and he has also traced some of the Cowe branch
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Hi matriarch2000,
This may help or hinder.
Eyemouth 1861 Main St. N.E.Side- 2 rooms, 1 scholar.
Eliza Meek H W 46 House Keeper Bew. Abbey St. Bathans.
Mary Stevenson D M 23 Edinburgh.
Andrew Stevenson S in law M 30 Chimney Sweeper Renfrew,Paisley.
David Meek S U 18 Cooper Edinburgh.
Alexander Meek S 15 Cooper Bew. Eyemouth.
Peter Meek S 12 Scholar. " "
5 natives of Germany M Lodgers Travelling Musicians.
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Welcome to Rootschat matriach! :)
I have sent you a Personal Message.
To access it, scroll to the top of the page where you'll see "Welcome back ......... XX messages etc'
Click on 'XX messages', and that will open your PM page.
Unfortunately, until you've made 3 posts, you won't be able to use this facility but I'm sure it won't be long till you've made much more than 3!! ;D
Anne
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Hi matriach
Seems we are related as David Meek was my husbands grandfather.
I have sent you a personal message.
best wishes
Sharon