RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: kncmason on Wednesday 11 June 08 12:48 BST (UK)
-
I am stucj with my family search I am trying to look into my grandma's side but I have come to a dead end. I have Robert graves who was born 1853 father is John Graves. Robert married Annie Oldham in 1883 in Newark Notts. I have found a birth that i think may be him but was hoping someone may be able to help before I purchase anymore birth or marriage certs, getting quite a collection. the birth I have is louth third quarter 1853.
If any of this is part of anyones tree or may be able to help pointing me in another direction I really would appreciate the help.
Cheers
Kara
-
Hi Kara,
Welcome to rootschat!
Just wondering if you have Robert in any census?
-
Hello Kara - welcome from me too ;D
Can I ask where you got Robert's father's name?
Certainly the Robert birth reg. you found looks likely, there doesn't seem to be another born then in Lincolnshire. However, I see that in 1861 census both parents of that Robert were away from home ??? In 1871 that Robert seems to be in Yorkshire as a chemists and druggist aprentice, but the other two siblings from 1861 are home, with parents Michael and Elizabeth ???
This may not therefore be the one :(
-
Hi Mum44
I have Robert Graves & Annie Oldham's marriage cert that shows Roberts father is John Graves dec at thime of marriage in 1883. After platying for a bit on rootsweb I have found a grave stone from St Helen's in North Thoresby showing John Graves died 5may1860 aged 55yrs. This could be him but not too sure!
My Grandad's family was so much easier to do!!
I appreciate any help.
Cheers
Kara
-
Well, it doesn't look as if the Robert 1853 Louth is yours ???
Can I just ask a couple more questions:
Ruskie already asked - have you found him an a census ?
What are you basing his age on? Is that also from the marriage certificate?
And what were the occupations of Robert and his father - also to be found on the marriage certificate.
-
I haven't found them on a census yet! Although on another site I was chatting to someone else who has been searching for Graves but not the same as mine and they found spelling was sometimes greaves - just to throw a spanner in the works!
I am going on the marriage cert for the age he was 30yrs at time of marriage on the 16th of May 1883 - Roberts occupation was Farm Laborour from what I can tell and his father John Graves who was deceased at the time of marriage was a Coal Dealer.
I hope this helps?? I'll keep searching too and keep you posted on my progress. Thanks heaps for all your help.
Kara
-
My money would be on the Robert GRAVES bap in Bassingham 18 Dec 1849, son of John and Millicent.
Bassingham was in Newark Reg Dist. (I can see no birth reg for Robert)
John GRAVES married Melicent PROCTOR at Bassingham, 20 Dec 1832
Was Annie's father David? ... I can see one nearby in Carlton le Moorland.
Deaths Mar 1883
GRAVES John 72 Newark 7b 261
-
Annies father was david Oldham a Labourer
-
Just linking this to duplicate thread on the Notts, board :D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=309510.new#new
-
They appear as GREAVES in 1891 ... Robert's birthplace is given as Bassingham, Annie's as Carlton le Moorland, so it looks like I found them. :)
-
thanks heaps for this hopefulyy may be able to find birth cert now so can get more info on parents. I really do appreciate it :D :D
-
I think this is the best you will get
Births Mar 1850
GREAVES Robert Newark 15 558
-
Well found Geoff !
-
thanks heaps for this hopefulyy may be able to find birth cert now so can get more info on parents.
I gave you his parents names. His dad was an AgLab in 1851 ... but a Coal Dealer in 1881!
-
Shall we all reply on this board instead of Notts board -to save duplicating our efforts???
Suz
-
Well done Geoff - you've pointed us in the right direction
this looks like the family
1861
Back St Bassingham Lincs
John graves head Widower 49 ag lab
Ruth daughter 14
Robert son 11
Charlotte daughter 8
Edmund son 6
John greaves son M 28 ag lab
Margaret daughter in law M 32
Henry grandson 8
Sarah granddaughter 4
Hannah granddaughter 2
all b bassingham Lincs
RG9 2477 21 35
please reply on this thread instead of nottingham one
Suz
-
looks lke Robert's parents in 1841
bassingham Lincs
John Graves 25 ag lab
Millicent 25
John 8
Proctor 6
Edmund 3
Mary 1
all b Bassingham
HO107 2136 204 2
1851
John Graves head M 39 ag lab
Milicent wife 36
John son 18 Carrier serv
Mary daughter 11
Kezia daughter 8
Elizabeth daughter 6
Ruth daughter3
Robert son 1 next door but 1 and 2 are Proctor families who may/may not be related to milicent
HO107 2136 04 2
Suz
-
1871
Bassingham
John Graves head M 59 ag lab Bassingham
Ann wife 54 Allington lincs
George ??pealand Grandson 7 Bassingham
Mary Saunders visitor M 33 Nail makers wife
John T saunders visitor 9mth Stamford Lincs
RG10 3540 5 2
1881
John Graves head M 69 Coal Dealer Bassingham
Ann wife 63 Allington
John T Saunders Grandson 9 Stamford Lincs
RG11 3374 14 21
so by John's occupation it looks like this is very possibly the family
Suz
-
2nd marriage (explaining the grandson's name in 1871)
Marriages Jun 1861
Graves John Newark 7b 429
Yealand Ann Newark 7b 429
Burials at Bassingham
7 Feb 1855 Millicent GRAVES (40)
22 Nov 1849 Robert GRAVES (63) - father of John
1 Jan 1870 Elizabeth GRAVES (76) - mother of John
19 Feb 1883 John GRAVES (72)
-
I have Robert Graves 1849 on my database - as already reported Robert was the son of John Graves and Millicent Proctor.
John was b 1811 on Bassingham andwas the son of Robert Graves and Elizabeth Baker
Jacky
-
Hi, I think we are related!!
(Thank-you Jacky, it was nice to see your post, I was being thick on my Graves family and the link between them and this Bassingham one. Should have gone straight to your data base!!)
I have a connection thus-- Robert Graves who married Elizabeth Baker was brother of Job Graves my grt x 3 grandfather. these Graves sons of Robert Graves and Mary Pedge.
Sally
-
I have been looking at Robert of Skellingthorpe and wondering!!!!!!. Many thanks for the confirmation.
Another loose end tied in.
Best regards,
Jacky
-
Are you sure Robert Graves from Bassingham,was born Skellingthorpe,my 3 x great grand father William Graves was born at Skellingthorpe,son of Robert and Mary.Do you have Robert seniors birth place and parents,do you know if the two families of Graves at NavenbyWilliam and Ann having sons John 1825 and Robert 1827 and Thomas and Mary daughter Susan at Navenby 1829 then Mary,George,Esther and William at Digby,have any connection to the Skellingthorpe family
-
You will find this family in my database
Regards
Jacky
-
Are you sure Robert Graves from Bassingham,was born Skellingthorpe,my 3 x great grand father William Graves was born at Skellingthorpe,son of Robert and Mary.Do you have Robert seniors birth place and parents,do you know if the two families of Graves at NavenbyWilliam and Ann having sons John 1825 and Robert 1827 and Thomas and Mary daughter Susan at Navenby 1829 then Mary,George,Esther and William at Digby,have any connection to the Skellingthorpe family
I dont know of a link between the familes - Robert Snr was of Sturton le Steeple, Nottinghamshire, Engand when he married Mary Pedge - he being born circa 1742
-
Hi,
Jacky will probably have the same info as I, (have a look ,its a great resource)--but I have a William Graves born 1789 Skellingthorpe s o Robert and Mary, married Sarah Sharpe. died 1851, Welbourne. Had 2 children, William and Caroline.
Is this your William?
Sally
-
The Lincs Marriage Indexes do not say that William was a Widow when he married Sarah Sharpe but two of children of the first marriage are living with them in 1841.
Williams first wife was Ann Blaney (indexed under Greaves) in 1817 at Welbourn (incidently some records say Welbourne - which is correct?) Ann died in Apr 1833, William Jan 1851 and Sarah Nov 1864 - all at Welbourn.
Interestly the 1851 Census has brother in law John Graves born circ 1781 at Skellingthorpe resident with Sarah - did not know about him.
Will update Rootsweb when I have done some more "digging"
Currently I have the children of William and Ann as:-
Elizabeth Blaney Graves 1818 Welbourn
George Blaney Graves 1821 Welbourn died May 1891 Welbourn wife Eliza Ogden
Mary 1822 Welbourn
Thomas 1826 Welbourn wife Elizabeth Carrington
William 1827 Welbourn d 1898 Welbourne wife - Sarah surname as yet unknown
Children of William and Sarah Sharpe
Caroline 1838 Welbourn husband George Scott
Frances 1834 Welbourn
Regards
Jacky
-
Jacky will probably have the same info as I, (have a look ,its a great resource)--but I have a William Graves born 1789 Skellingthorpe s o Robert and Mary, married Sarah Sharpe. died 1851, Welbourne. Had 2 children, William and Caroline.
Is this your William?
Sally
That was his second marriage - first one was in 1817 (as GREAVES) to Ann BLANEY - several children including George and William, present in 1841). Annie was buried 30 April 1833 (42)
I see Jacky has posted the something similar :)
A John GRAVES was next door to William in 1841 but born "not Lincs".
-
The John Graves living next door to William in 1841,was no relation as far as i know,his brother John was living at Metheringham in 1841 with wife Bridget (Catten),son James and grand son Thomas Bavin,Thomas Bavins father William Bavin,was the brother of John Bavin,who was second husband of Edward Carringtons wife Louisa.Edward was related to Thomas Graves wife Elizabeth Carrington,she was born at Navenby in 1829,in 1841 she was living with a William and Grace Carrington,at Carlton le Moorland,Edward was Williams younger brother.I am not sure what relation Elizabeth was,William wed Grace Thompson at Carlton in 1820,so they can`t be her grand parents,unless Grace was a second wife,in which case William could be her grand father,he was born at Bassingham in 1781.I notice on the i.g.i. there are Graves at Bassingham going back to 1600`s,i wonder if this is where the family originate from
-
William Graves wife was Sarah Taylor,wed 1852,i wondered if the John and Robert Graves bapt.to William and Ann at Navenby,could be chilren of William and wife Ann Blaney
-
ah----that's where the Blaney name came from- saw it on some gravestones at Welbourne (can be both with and without the "e" I believe). Off to look at this-----
-
William Graves wife was Sarah Taylor,wed 1852,i wondered if the John and Robert Graves bapt.to William and Ann at Navenby,could be chilren of William and wife Ann Blaney
The John Graves b1825 at Navenby probably buried Apr 1826 at Navenby - I don't think that he was a child of William and Ann Blaney. I have found Robert living in Bedfordshire with his family in 1861 (indexed birthpace Newenly, Lincolnshire) and I871.
There was a marriage at Heckington in 1823 of a William Graves and Ann Footit
There is a baptism in 1804 of an Ann Footit and in April 1874 an Ann Graves of the right age was buried at Navenby.
The only sign of Ann (Footitt) Graves I can find is an Ann Graves of Navenby of the right age working as housekeeper for Peter Marriot at Doddington in 1851. She is recorded as married. Also in the household is John W Graves age 10 b at Temple Bruer - boarder.
I love thes mysteries!
Jacky
-
ah----that's where the Blaney name came from- saw it on some gravestones at Welbourne (can be both with and without the "e" I believe). Off to look at this-----
Ann was probably the daughter of George Blaney who married Eliabeth Woodridge in Welbourn in 1790
Jacky
-
Anns parents were George and Elizabeth,i didn`t have her maiden name,she had three sisters,Elizabeth Marshall 1791,Alice 1793 and Mary 1794,Georges parents were George and Elizabeth nee Marshall who wed at Newark 6 June 1758
-
Elizabeth Wooldridge 1766 dtr of Edward Wooldrige and Ann Burrell of Harmson died Mar 1836 at Welbourn
Jacky
-
Thanks for that Jacky,i got more children for Charles Graves,son of Welbeck,in 1891 he was living at Chis wife not present,Matthew is a farmer born at Carlton le Moorland age 50 Ann also 50 born Laxton Nottsalow Derbys.with wife Annie 39 born Renshaw Derbyshire,children Emily 19 Hasland,Eliza 12 Hasland,Maria A.8 Hasland,Fred 6 Brimington,John Thomas 5 Tapton,George Will.3 Calow,Nellie C.1 Calow and Mabel A.1 month Calow.Welbecks son John Thomas was living at Walton in 1871with Matthew and Ann Peck,down as son in law 1881 he is at Chesterfield with wife Mary A.and son Thomas William
-
Thanks for that Jacky,i got more children for Charles Graves,son of Welbeck,in 1891 he was living at Chis wife not present,Matthew is a farmer born at Carlton le Moorland age 50 Ann also 50 born Laxton Nottsalow Derbys.with wife Annie 39 born Renshaw Derbyshire,children Emily 19 Hasland,Eliza 12 Hasland,Maria A.8 Hasland,Fred 6 Brimington,John Thomas 5 Tapton,George Will.3 Calow,Nellie C.1 Calow and Mabel A.1 month Calow.Welbecks son John Thomas was living at Walton in 1871with Matthew and Ann Peck,down as son in law 1881 he is at Chesterfield with wife Mary A.and son Thomas William
Well, that proved interesting.
Welbeck was buried in March 1865 in Swinderby and in Jul-Sep 1865 an Ann Graves married Matthew Peck in Newark District. No time for mourning! - but times were hard then.
Mathew was actually born circa 1824 at Carlton le Moorland son of Matthew Peck and Ann Bugg. In 1861 he is living with wife Ann and the two sons that are also with him in 1871. I believe that Matthews wife was Ann Rawson dtr of George and Ann b circa 1821.
Because of the simularity in Matthew Pecks wives names ie. Ann Rawson and Ann Pawson, I am wondering if Ann Pawson was also a Rawson and a possible relative. I have only seen a transcript of Welbecks marriage. Matthew Peck died 1897 and Ann Pawson his second wife in 1872 in Chesterfield District. I believe that she was economic with the truth about her age to the end.
Anyway, I have sussed out that Charles Graves married first Eliza Jane Pearson in 1870 in Newark District. She died 1880 in Chesterfield District. The 1881 Census reflects that Charles was a widower. Charles next married Annie Jennings 13 Jun 1881 in Ashover, Derbyshire. Charles died 1900 in Chesterfield District and Annie is shown as a widow in the 1901 Census. One extra child Annie F b 1895 in Calow.
As you say John Thomas was with his mother and Stepfather in 1871. He married Mary Ann Shaw in 1874 in Chesterfield District. They had a son John Welbeck Graves in 1876. In 1891 John Welbeck Graves was living with his Uncle George Shaw. It looks as though John Welbeck Graves moved to Staffordshire as there is a marriage there in 1903.
John Thomas Graves died 1885 in Chesterfield District.
Best regards
Jacky
-
Thanks,so when John was down as son in law,it should have been step son.Robert Graves and Elizabeth Bakers daughter Mary wed a George Bugg at Bassingham on 11 April 1839,i wonder if he was any relation to Ann Bugg
-
Found some notes I took on a visit to Welbourn/e churchyard-they give a few dates of the Graves/Blaney family---
1) William Graves died March 2nd 1898 aged 70 and his wife Sarah died Jan 31st 1907 aged 79. (this should be William the son of William Graves and Ann Blaney)
2) Ellen Elizabeth "Nellie"- dau of above, died Dec 3rd 1885 aged 21
3) Charles- third son of Wm and Sarah G died Feb 18th 1897 aged 38, stone erected by his daughter Louisa
4) Julia Ann fourth dau of Wm and Sarah, died June 2nd 1940, aged 76
5) Ann Graves dau of George and Elizabeth BLANEY died April 27th 18?? (Looks like 65 but should be 33)
aged 45- stone erected by her "surviving sisters"
6) Elizabeth the wife of George Blaney died March 14th 1836 aged 70 years
7) William GRAVES (prob husband of Ann Blaney) died 7th Jan 1851 aged 63
8) Sarah GRAVES ( prob 2nd wife of above Wm ) died Nov 24th 1864 aged 65
And- a brilliant headstone----
9) GEORGE BLANEY, Yeoman of this Parish who died 23rd June 1832 aged 71 years. "he cultivated the same fields which his ancestors had done for three centuries before him and here his bones rest with his Fathers. His afflicted Widow and children being removed from the place endeared by so many recollections erect this stone as a tribute to a Husband and Father of whom it may be truly said....." (verse)
Get that!! do you think the family were evicted from the farm and were making some sort of point here???
Sally
-
forgive the smiley face in above- no idea how it got there, and cant remove it. should say "eight" 8
-
Sally i think they probably were,i think George and Elizabeth Blaney had only daughters and with no son to take over the land,i would think they would have been evicted,to allow another tenant to take over the farm,or small holding.Its interesting that Ann Graves sisters put up her headstone and not her husband William
-
Sally,iv`e just checked my tree,Charles son Robert was born in Salford in 1890,so i wonder if the family took his body back to Welbourne to be buried
-
Yes, I suppose the body could have been taken back- but the headstones I have numbered 1-3 all begin "In Loving Memory Of"- ( and 4- IMO)so just possible that one or more are just memorials, and are buried elsewhere. anyone got a burial register transcript??
The eviction from farms when there is no adult male heir is interesting. I think that may explain the mystery of what happened to the youngest brother of Welbeck and William Graves. My 3x great grandfather Job Graves was a tennant farmer at Thurlby- he left a will leaving the tennancy to his eldest son Edward White Graves, with Welbeck as executor, instructions that if EWG mis-managed the farm, or could not inherit it was to pass to the 2nd son Job William. But 3 years after his death the widow and children (minus Edward who has disappeared) were all at Louth, and Mary the widow was described as a Pauper- out door relief. So I assume that Edward must have died shortly after his father- though have not found it yet-- and Job William,and the other children ( which included another son Charles-under age) were deemed unfit to inherit the tennancy (?)
Sally
-
Sally,iv`e checked 1901 census and found Charles widow Louisa at Boultham Lincs.she had re-married to a John Thomas Cox and had a daughter Lucy born Boultham,but also living with them were four children born after 1891,including Lizzie and Herbert,both born Welbourne,new marriage was in Dec.quarter 1898 reg.at Sleaford
-
Thanks,so when John was down as son in law,it should have been step son.Robert Graves and Elizabeth Bakers daughter Mary wed a George Bugg at Bassingham on 11 April 1839,i wonder if he was any relation to Ann Bugg
I have not found a connection with the Buggs - George's father born circa 1777 and I cant see a relevant baptism. He was buried in 1850 in South Hykeham. There is a stong Bassingham connection and serindipity play eventually pay its part.
I did find that Elizabeth Graves was widowed in 1846 and she then married John Roe in South Hykeham in 1852.
I have updated Rootsweb with latest finds
Jacky
-
~~~~~~~~
Yes, I suppose the body could have been taken back- but the headstones I have numbered 1-3 all begin "In Loving Memory Of"- ( and 4- IMO)so just possible that one or more are just memorials, and are buried elsewhere. anyone got a burial register transcript??
Burial for Charles in the NBI 22 Sept 1897
Jacky
-
Brilliant Jacky -thank-you.
This is an interesting family I think ( I'm biased) but they seem to have spread wide and far.
-
I haven't found them on a census yet! Although on another site I was chatting to someone else who has been searching for Graves but not the same as mine and they found spelling was sometimes greaves - just to throw a spanner in the works!
I am going on the marriage cert for the age he was 30yrs at time of marriage on the 16th of May 1883 - Roberts occupation was Farm Laborour from what I can tell and his father John Graves who was deceased at the time of marriage was a Coal Dealer.
I hope this helps?? I'll keep searching too and keep you posted on my progress. Thanks heaps for all your help.
Kara
Hello Kara, this is my family in the Barton upon Humber Area who changed their name from Graves to Greaves in the early 20th century . This is due to an earlier find of an old Birth certificate where a genuine mistake had been made and my great great granny adopted it as she thought it sounded better anyway !
-
Robert could be Robert Graves born Bassingham abt.1849,his father was John born Bassingham abt.1812on the 1881 census is down as a coal dealer,i have Robert marrying an Annie Beaumont in 1883 with three children,Joseph abt.1893,Sidney 1900 and Eliza abt.1905,i can`t find Robert and family on census either,neither under Graves or Greaves
-
Robert could be Robert Graves born Bassingham abt.1849,his father was John born Bassingham abt.1812on the 1881 census is down as a coal dealer,i have Robert marrying an Annie Beaumont in 1883 with three children,Joseph abt.1893,Sidney 1900 and Eliza abt.1905,i can`t find Robert and family on census either,neither under Graves or Greaves
I have that Robert as marrying Annie Oldham in 1883
Children George, John, Henry born Bassingham and David, Joseph, Cecil and Sidney born in Fenton,
Annie Oldham b1859 at Carlton le Moorland dtr of David Oldham and Mary
Robert, Annie and family at Fenton 1891 and 1901 - indexed Greaves and at Church Farm, Lambley, Nottinghamshire in 1901 - back to Graves again and Elizabeth Graves born circa 1905 in Farnfield, Nottinghamshire is listed as a visitor.
The couple are reported to have had eight children of which 7 were living.
This Robert was son of John and Millecent nee Proctor and John son of Robert Graves and Elizabeth nee Baker
Jacky
-
Re Above
David Oldm married Mary Ann Brown 1855 Newark District
J
-
Jacky,have you come across Rebecca Carrington bapt.at Metheringham on 6 Jan.1828,mother Elizabeth,i think she might be sister of my 3 x great grand mother Elizabeth.I found a marriage for Rebecca Carrington at Metheringham,to William Stow on 4 April 1854,i found him on 1841 census at Metheringham,gives birth place as Lincs,he has several children,but i can`t find Rebecca on 1841 or 1851 census prior to marriage and the only Rebecca Stow i can find,was born in Yorks.
-
Try looking for Rebecca SHARP(E) ... Elizabeth CARRINGTON married James SHARPE at Meg, 12 April 1831.
-
Jacky,have you come across Rebecca Carrington bapt.at Metheringham on 6 Jan.1828,mother Elizabeth,i think she might be sister of my 3 x great grand mother Elizabeth.I found a marriage for Rebecca Carrington at Metheringham,to William Stow on 4 April 1854,i found him on 1841 census at Metheringham,gives birth place as Lincs,he has several children,but i can`t find Rebecca on 1841 or 1851 census prior to marriage and the only Rebecca Stow i can find,was born in Yorks.
In the marriage record Rebecca is shown as illigit. She was baptised as you say at Metheringham, dtr of Elizabeth.
An Elizabeth Carrington married a James Sharpe at Metheringham 12 Sep 1831 and their children are on the IGI
In 1841 the couple are living in Metheringham with their children also with them is a dtr Rebecca "Sharpe" of the right age.
Rebecca is not with them in 1851 and a search for Reb* born at Metheringham does not find her. Elizabeth Sharpe nee Carrington is still in Metheringham with her family - she is recorded as born circa 1801 at Holland Fen.
This Elizabeth could be the dtr of Henry Carrington and Dorothy nee Gillion who bizarrely seems to have been baptised twice - once in Kirton in Holland and once in Fosdyke on 9 June 1800 and 5 June 1800
Jacky
-
Thanks Geoff,but no luck there,i had seen that marriage,not sure if she is the same Elizabeth,but with the marriage being only three years after Rebeccas birth,its a strong possibility it is same Elizabeth,although my 3 x great grand mother Elizabeth was born at Navenby in 1829
-
Thanks Jacky,if that is the right Elizabeth,that means there is unlikely to be any connection to William and Grace Carrington,who my relation was living with at Carlton le Moorland in 1841,he was born at Bassingham
-
Thanks Jacky,if that is the right Elizabeth,that means there is unlikely to be any connection to William and Grace Carrington,who my relation was living with at Carlton le Moorland in 1841,he was born at Bassingham
How marriage records deceive - your Elizabeth shown as dtr of George Mimack Carrington - but having just checked baptism she was baptised as dtr .
Have you tracked Elizabeth Snr down - my guess is that there is a link to Edward Carrington who married Louisa Breward at Navenby and had children their about this time - He was born circa 1801 an died at Navenby Mar 1843
Jacky
-
Rebecca is not with them in 1851 and a search for Reb* born at Metheringham does not find her.
Perhaps Rebecca SHARP 22 Waddington?
-
Jacky,Elizabeth bapt.at Navenby,illigitimate daughter of Elizabeth,father given as George Mimmack of Doddington.Edward Carrington wed Louisa Breward at Navenby,was younger brother of the William at Carlton le Moorland,but he had no daughter Elizabeth and being born 1796,he wasn`t old enough to be father of Elizabeth senior.There is no record of a bapt.of a sister Elizabeth to William and Edward,there is however a bapt.of an Elizabeth Carrington at Skellingthorpe to William and Elizabeth Carrington,but she was bapt.1779 and would have been to old to be mother of Elizabeth born 1829,possible that she was mother of Elizabeth sen.Sarah another sister wed Edward Sibsey in 1809,Anne wed Robert Lowe 1807,Susannah no marriage,but suspect she was the Susan who had son William bapt at Welbourne in 1826