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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 11 June 08 00:09 BST (UK)

Title: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 11 June 08 00:09 BST (UK)

Hi

If I can post it right, this is an old family photo of a War Memorial, but noone could remember exactly where.

It is almost cetainly Salford - near the top left is William Diggle from Salford, a cousin to my family, the little I can see of the houses fits - though also many other Lancashire towns, and practically any other photo of this part of the family came from Salford.

I have the results from CWGC for William's death, I've transcribed most of it, having played with it a bit - it was a photocopy of an old photo, so not perfect.  I'll puit it up here and on my own sire in the next couple of days. 

Mainly, I'd like to know exactly where it is.  I'd love to hear from anyone who knows anyone on it, too.

Now for the photo - where the fun starts!

Hopefully big enough to read!

Best wishes

Emms

Modified:

Second time, not bad!

PS  By the way, I have had a look at some sites including Debbie's great photo's but there aren't many with two columns of writing.

I get the feeling this was in the community - park, town centre or some such place.

If anyone knows if it's still iaround and accessible to the public, I'd love to see a photo in situ today, and the full hight.

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: Salford Lass on Wednesday 11 June 08 00:41 BST (UK)

Ems

That looks like the original Regent Road war memorial, now at Ordsall and on my flikr site.

Debbie

Update:- it isn't the above sorry

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 11 June 08 00:44 BST (UK)

Hi Debbie

Thank you!

I could easily have missed it, there are so many on now.  A good excuse for another look - but in the morning!

By the way, did it really move, or have they just changed some names?

Thank you again.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Wednesday 11 June 08 11:48 BST (UK)

Hi Emms

Have you tried pinning any of the names down in the 1901 census, it may give a good indication to the location.

Then we can have a rootschat hunt one weekend  ;D

Ken

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 11 June 08 15:38 BST (UK)

Isn't that the Gorton War Memorial Migky photographed for me ??

I'm trying to find the thread ... hold on !  :D

No yours is bigger  Emms ! ... sorry !!

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,272658.15.html

If you plug in Manchester here ... you come up with 18 pages !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's going to be a long weekend Kenhar !!  :D :D :D

http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/server/show/nav.22

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Wednesday 11 June 08 15:57 BST (UK)

Annie

If it's nice and warm and the route is planned to intercept a pub every 30 minutes

hey!!! who cares how long the weekend is  ;D

Ken

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 11 June 08 16:24 BST (UK)

Hi Ken, Annie, Debbie

As usual, more complicated than I thought!  But now I've realised more than ever I'd like to know aout all these names.  Anyone with time to contribute, I'd really appreciate it.  Thank you all!

I'd thought when the answer wasn't obvious of looking at CWGC - wont get to the bottom of all the names, and they told me once on the phone, the addresses were given by family as 0f after the war- maybe 1919 or later.

Only time for a few now, though.

One thing I notice, there are a whole group of names  that all appear among or with my Lancashire Irish., back in mid 19C.  This clan to a large extent stayed close until after WW1.  Still says Pendleton or near.

eg Redmond, Martin, Naylor, O'Connor, O'Sullivan etc.

Also, that house behind, I thought  was a terrace, actually has windows in the end, so it's an end or a semi.  It has two columns in the windows upstairs but looks like three downstairs.

Thank you again andf best wishes to all.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 11 June 08 16:39 BST (UK)

I looked on the CWGC for JH  Nixon ( I think that's what it is !!  ::) )

NIXON, JAMES HENRY

Rank - Corporal
Regiment/Service - Manchester Regiment
Unit Text - 17th Bn.
Date of Death - 08/05/1918
Service No - 8253
Casualty Type - Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference - Panel 120 to 124 and 162 to 162A and 163A.
Memorial - TYNE COT MEMORIAL

Rather than wait for Mack to show up here  ::) .... you might try the Manchester Regiment site !! they'll know !!  :D

http://www../

Annie  :)

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 11 June 08 16:41 BST (UK)

PS

Four S Molyneux's, on;y one specifically Manchester, son of Edward and Ann, no address, one doesn't say.

Tried a few more but there are too many of each.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 11 June 08 16:43 BST (UK)

Thak you Annie and Ken.  I'll try that,  Annie.  It'll have to be later though.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: sem73 on Wednesday 11 June 08 17:14 BST (UK)

Hi Emms

Have you tried these guys ........http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/ or putting a message on their blog......

Sarah :)

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Thursday 12 June 08 11:36 BST (UK)

Found a great site - but no William Diggle on it

http://mlfhs.org.uk/datasources/warmemorials.htm

Ken

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 12 June 08 11:49 BST (UK)

Hi Ken

Thank you very much!

I'm going to have another look later and also pass on anything I can to them including the photo and the best transcription I can give them and see what they think., and also if it turns out to be in Manchester if it is of any use to them.

I've not looked round the MLFHS site for a while anyway.

Thank you again

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Thursday 12 June 08 11:52 BST (UK)

Also try here

Seems Debbie & Mack use it a lot

http://services.salford.gov.uk/forum/forumposts.asp?forum=22&id=79156&p=1

Ken

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 12 June 08 13:18 BST (UK)

Hi Ken

Thank you again!

I didn't know this forum but I've signed up and put a link to this one. 

I can't send it by email to MLFHS beciause it's just one of those links you can't put things on.

Thank you again.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: Salford Lass on Thursday 12 June 08 19:25 BST (UK)

Hi all

I have a feeling, after looking at it again, that this may have been a memorial wall/screen, and that there are perhaps up to 4 columns of names not on the photo.

If you look at the top of the memorial, that plinth goes across the bottom bit, rather than straight up.

I am now as intrigued as emms, so if anyone can shed any light that would be great.

Debbie

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 12 June 08 20:18 BST (UK)

Hi Debbie

We meet again!

Funny the questions you think are the simple ones are always the most complicated!

I'm intrigued by what's on the top too.  I think there's an earl or somebody and a date later than WW1.

Thank you for all your input.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: josey on Thursday 12 June 08 20:55 BST (UK)

I've been intrigued by this discussion!!

The alphabet has got to R by the end of the second column so probably 3 columns of names?

Is that May 25th at the top? Could it commemorate the last day of the battle of Ypres? I've tried playing with the image in photo editing software but can't make the inscription at the top any more legible.

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: seahall on Thursday 12 June 08 21:03 BST (UK)

Not sure if this has been suggested but it isn't a Church Memorial is it.

I have found quite a few that list their war dead on such memorials in Churchyards.

Sandy

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Thursday 12 June 08 21:19 BST (UK)

Emms

Have you a higher res copy of the picture?

Ken

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: midmum on Thursday 12 June 08 21:53 BST (UK)

could this be a memorial in Collyhurst? I have checked out some of the names visible and many have an address in Collyhurst as their next of kin. :-\

Heather

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Thursday 12 June 08 21:53 BST (UK)

Like josey I have played with the picture. I cant be to 100% sure with them but came up with this short list all in Manchester

D Redmond - Son of Daniel and Agnes Ann Redmond, of 24, Sherwood St., Rochdale Rd., Collyhurst, Manchester.

A E Parry - Son of Albert Edward and Jessie Parry, of 47, Collyhurst St., Collyhurst, Manchester.

S Ryan - Son of the late John and Catherine Ryan, of 53, Key West St., Beswick, Manchester. Enlisted June, 1897, served 12 years in India.

P Rigby - Son of S. H. and Elizabeth Rigby, of 89, Cheltenham St., Collyhurst, Manchester.

P O'Connor - Son of Mrs. Elizabeth Brereton, of 34, Higher Temple St., Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester.

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Thursday 12 June 08 21:56 BST (UK)

Heather

The collyhurst memorial looks nothing like that, but may be worth a look to check the names

Ken

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: midmum on Thursday 12 June 08 22:01 BST (UK)

Hi Ken,

I am not familiar with the area but could there be an area overlapping?

As well as those you have listed :

H Ramsbottom of 125 Teignmouth Road Collyhurst.

T O'Sulliavn of 75 North Kent Street Collyhurst

H Ogden, 14 St Oswald St Collyhurst

Could be a churchyard as Josey suggested. These men were from different regiments so it makes it likely to have been in that area.

Heather

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 12 June 08 22:36 BST (UK)

Hi

This has got exciting while I've been busy doing other things!  Idid try a few names, but apart from the Redmond one, I didn't get any addresses.

Collyhurst does have family connections.  I thought it looked like a park or churchyard or some such place.

Thank you all for your input!

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 12 June 08 22:46 BST (UK)

Hi Ken, I've got higher resolution.  I had to reduce the res to put uit on the board, though I ended up with a smaller file than I needed.

The original was a much larger file, but I can send it on an emeil to anyone who'd like.  Someone had a problem opening it so I'kll see if an save it a better way.

Having said that, this is a scan of my photocopy of a very dark original.  I only have the photocopy, so it's doing quite well to show names. 

You may not get any more from the original scan, but if anyone would still like a copy, please can you pm me with an email address?  omeone else may make a better job of posting it than me!

Thank you again all.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: midmum on Thursday 12 June 08 23:02 BST (UK)

Hi Emms

have checked the Collyhurst memorial which was recently refurbished but couldn't recognise any of the names there as being on your picture!

Got out my a-z and the surrounding areas are many, Harpurhey, Miles platting, Cheetham, Crumpsall, Ancoats and Strangeways.

Did find a John Paul Parry of Hulme, but he could have moved there when he married but be from Collyhurst. He died  1942 so the memorial may be to both war dead.

Hope you find out soon.

Heather

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 12 June 08 23:47 BST (UK)

Hi Heather

Thank you!

Time to think on it overnight!

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Saturday 14 June 08 23:11 BST (UK)

Hi All

I've just been playing on the net. and the \Collyhurst Memorial is on the link below, c/o Military Images.  No' it's not this one, but it's not as unalike as it seems.

If you look at the plinth alone, it's mighty alike until you look at the names.  Infact have those panels been shuffled in the redoing?

I'd love to see what's round the back.  I'm sure it must be the some designer or maybe even stone masons, so definitely looking closeby is promising, though not necessarily the case.

Link here.http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/12102

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Saturday 14 June 08 23:50 BST (UK)

Hi THis is the list I've done so far.

Not all clear, so it'll take more work.

I got engrossed looking on the net tonight so I'll go back and keep working on this tomorrow.

By the way, does anyone know if there's a memorial at Moston and what it looks like?  i know from CWGC that there are loads of War Graves in there.

Or Seedley RToad?  I know some of our people were at the Military Hospital there.

Good night

Emms
Modified: Sorry , can't upload it, did it in a word table.
Try again tomorrow!

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: liverpool annie on Sunday 15 June 08 03:50 BST (UK)

Ken .... can I just say ..... I love the "boys" as your avatar .... can we have them back ??

I love to laugh at them !!

Annie  :D

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: Conductor Mike on Sunday 15 June 08 08:33 BST (UK)

Hi there. You might try the War Memorials Trust at:  warmemorials.org and the UKNIWM.org.uk. But I suspect its long hard logging of names and tracking them down via CWGC.org.

Best of luck, I've just been through it with excellent support from this group.  Mike

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: manmack on Sunday 15 June 08 09:22 BST (UK)

hiya guys.
ive had a go at some of the names,but had no joy in pinning the memorial down.
if it is a collyhurst memorial,then monsstar will be able to help,hes an old collyhurst lad.

mack

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: manmack on Sunday 15 June 08 09:26 BST (UK)

Quote from: Conductor Mike on Sunday 15 June 08 08:33 BST (UK)

Hi there. You might try the War Memorials Trust at:  warmemorials.org and the UKNIWM.org.uk. But I suspect its long hard logging of names and tracking them down via CWGC.org.

Best of luck, I've just been through it with excellent support from this group.  Mike

mikes right.it will be a tough one to crack,but you all seem very keen to have a go,and it wouldnt surprise me if you succeeded.

mack

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Sunday 15 June 08 10:16 BST (UK)

Emms

Even with the 1meg photo you sent, it is still hard to make out any details even after photo enhancing.

Ken

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Sunday 15 June 08 12:08 BST (UK)

Hi All

Thank you for all the interestin g feedback!

And the dancesrs, Ken.  OIn fact if I don't look often enough, I'm going to moiss some good stuff with your avatar's.

Thank you for the latest image too.  I can see nearer the bottom.

Putting all of it together, it really does look like the area people have mentioned around Collyhurst, and churches look .like a favourite.  William's family were RC, but I don't know if he stayed that way, or if that would affect a war memorial.

If it is a church,  it is on the edge of the grounds near houses, possibly semi's.  Does the Rc at Collyhurst have a War Memorial?

If we could work out the date atmthe top, there might be an entry in Manchester evening News when it was officially opened.

Thank you all again.

Emms.

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: josey on Sunday 15 June 08 14:22 BST (UK)

Here is the googleearth image for St Patrick's Collyhurst.

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: liverpool annie on Sunday 15 June 08 14:39 BST (UK)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Don't you love 'em !! ( them boys !! )

Thanks Ken !!  :D

On an old post ... themonsstar said this about Collyhurst ....

Quote

the memorial was next to the Lucky Seven Bingo hall on Rochdale Road

Does anybody know the Bingo Hall ??  :-\

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: josey on Sunday 15 June 08 15:07 BST (UK)

Quote from wikipaedia

"For a brief period in the mid 1970s, The Electric Circus, a run down former bingo hall on Rochdale Road, found itself at the centre of Manchester's punk rock scene. It played host to bands such as the Sex Pistols, The Jam, Joy Division—then known as Warsaw—and the Buzzcocks, before its closure in 1977. It has now been demolished."

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: josey on Sunday 15 June 08 15:14 BST (UK)

Here is the inscription on th Collyhurst memorial according to the Channel 4 Lost Generation website:

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/L/lostgeneration/search/m-record.jsp?id=30030

    TO THE ENDURING / MEMORY OF / THOSE WHO GAVE / THEIR LIVES / ALSO THOSE WHO FOUGHT / FOR GOD AND COUNTRY / IN THE GREAT WAR / 1914-1919 / THE FOLLOWING KILLED IN ACTION DIED OF WOUNDS / (NAMES) / THIS MEMORIAL WAS ERECTED / BY PUBLIC SUBSCRIPTION / AND WAS UNVEILED BY THE /RT HON EARL OF DERBY K.G/ / SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR / MAY 25TH 1923.

Fits in with May 25th we can see on the top section....

Josey

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: liverpool annie on Sunday 15 June 08 15:20 BST (UK)

It also said enclosed within iron railings !  :-\ ( I assumed that was a wood fence in the picture ... but could it be iron ?? )

Wonder if there are any newspaper clippings of the Earl of Derby unveiling it ??

Annie  :)

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: josey on Sunday 15 June 08 15:24 BST (UK)

But is that foliage or collapsed iron decoration in the bottom left corner?

Josey

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: josey on Sunday 15 June 08 15:35 BST (UK)

Anyone seen this link?

http://bujold.co.uk/html/ancoats__miles_platting__new_c_1.html

There is an offer to look up any names.

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: liverpool annie on Sunday 15 June 08 15:36 BST (UK)

A 4-month programme of conservation and repair (including replacing damaged stone
and re-cutting commemorations) was completed for the WWI memorial on Rochdale
Road in Collyhurst in June. Blackley War Memorial (Grade II listed) in Bogart Hole
Clough was cleaned and restored in time for Remembrance Sunday.
Both of these projects were extensive and complex. Collyhurst had suffered severe
stone decay and many of the names were missing or illegible. The specialist
stonemasons were able to recut and re-black names, re-inscribe missing names, and
add a new inscription to commemorate post-WWII war deaths. The Blackley war
memorial (also know as the ‘Angel’) had extensive damage to the stonework that was
repaired with new stone indents, and the Angel herself was removed for conservation at
National Museums Liverpool.
Conservation expertise for both projects was supplied by Conservation Technologies,
National Museums Liverpool at a total cost of £75,000

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloads/War_Memorials_and_Public_Art_October_2007.pdf

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: liverpool annie on Sunday 15 June 08 15:39 BST (UK)

I think you've got it Josey !!  :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: colliecuts on Sunday 15 June 08 15:42 BST (UK)

Further to Joseys transcription , I can make out the following on the photograph

" THE RT HON EARL "   and  " SECRETARY OF STATE "

for me this is the animal

Al

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Sunday 15 June 08 15:46 BST (UK)

Hi All

 Thank You! for your input!  It seems like it's getting closer.  There's something not right here though, or something's changed.

I can't actually see a memorial on the chuch, but brilliant idea.  Have we got two memorials designed and possibly made by the same form and possibly even unveiled on the same day?

I think the one I found last night is probably the renovated and possibly altered  version of the one from Channel four.  

The one on my link of some unearthly hour last night, has almost the some plinth, and the same dedication in the same place and the saame lettering, but the names are different.  Date seems to be the same.

Could there have been one at the church by the same people?  

Or the other alternative, was there another board on the back with other names on, who also well?  William Diggle definitely died, and he is on the first one?

By the way, I'm finding this fascinating, but if anyone's got more than they bargained for, do feel free to drop out!  I'm starting to feel a bit guilty sitting here doing very little!


Thank you all again.

Best wishes

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Sunday 15 June 08 15:49 BST (UK)

Hi Al

Thank you for those pearls of wisdom.

I was trying to think of a christion name that would fit in where you've got Rt Hon.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: josey on Sunday 15 June 08 20:19 BST (UK)

I think the picture on the bujold site in link in reply #42 is of the front [this also shows the repairs detailed in Annie's reply #43 - clever to find that!!!] & your pic is of another side [I suggest the left side as you look at the front with the 'To the Enduring Memory...inscription as you can see the houses behind & I can't see an inscription on th eright had side]. There seems to be an inscription in larger letters going across the top of the name columns in both your pic & the bujold one - this could say that the men were from a particular area, or another regiment, or died in a particular battle etc. So there seem to be 3 columns of names on each of at least 3 sides each in its own alphabetical order. I can't see which one has the later names though.

I live in West Yorkshire so I can see me paying a visit to see it after all this brain ache!! Ha Ha!!

Josey

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Sunday 15 June 08 22:02 BST (UK)

Hi Josie

Now, that looks like it could make sense!

Thank you for putting in the time to compare them.  Especially from across the Pennines!  Ironically, I put Diggle in, on the link above and got about seventeen, one of them a W Diggle.  It wasn't this one though, but he was in West Yorkshire!

I must admit, a couple of things have occured to me since this afternoo,  One thing put me off the church idea.  I've just been putting photo's etc of a local church war memorial, and there's an exhortation to prayer on the top, which of courxse there often is.  This one just has exactly the same at the top as the part of Collyhurst that we can see.

Also, the one I'm doing is mitred, whiere as the one in my photograph has parallel columns which isn't actually that usual, and it would fit with it being part of  multifaced base.

Good thinking!

Certainly there are family connections with St Patrick's Livesy Street, in that area, so it all adds up.

Now all we need is some kind person in Salford to check it out for us! - if they haven't spent too long on it already!

thank you very much, onr and all!

Best wishes

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Tuesday 17 June 08 13:14 BST (UK)

Guess what --- I  found it --- It is the Collyhurst monument --- photos later

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Tuesday 17 June 08 14:30 BST (UK)

Hi Ken

Welll done them Dancing Boys!   Well done all!

Can't wait for the photo's!

Get  back later.

Emms

Wow!  It worked!

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 17 June 08 15:06 BST (UK)

Woohoo !! ... wait till Josey sees .... she'll say ... I told you so !!  :D :D :D :D

Nice job you guys !!  :D

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: celia on Tuesday 17 June 08 17:55 BST (UK)

seems i am a bit late but took ages ;D

FROM THE TOP


One.     ? McDonald
two         E.? MURPHY
Four.       ?    MARTIN
Six          ? MOORE
Nine      J.W. NIXON
Eleven   J NAYLOR
Twelve   P.D Connor  but could be o’connor
Fourteen   T.D. SULLIVAN
Fifteen      I or L  OLDFIELD
16 J.P.PARRY
17   ?? PARRY
23.  P DIGBY OR RIGBY
24  D OLDMOND

Celia

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Tuesday 17 June 08 18:11 BST (UK)

I have sent Emms 3 high res photos of the memorial

Had to resize and reduce quality of one of them for this posting, but hope you like it

Celia

How many did you get right  ;D I had a go "not easy"

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: celia on Tuesday 17 June 08 18:43 BST (UK)

What a great monument ;D out of the 13 i could read with my magnifying glass i got 10  surenames right with three nearly  rights;D

Celia

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Tuesday 17 June 08 23:26 BST (UK)

Hi all.

Wow!  What can I say?  With cooperation  like this, who needs mp's? 

Seriouslly, thank you one and all.  I know some people spent a long time looking up names.  It's really appreciated. 

Ken, the photo's are brilliant and will be much enjoyed by the family and sleuths young and old alike!

So I gather we've been going in circles round the right monument, looking at it from a different side and angle.
So this is the other side or another side of the same monument as the ones
on the other sites then?

So when Channel four got their names from Manchester City Council, they only got a small number of them.  There will be a lot more than the 52 on their site!

Am I right in thinking then that this is in a park, if I can be dare to ask yet another question after all that hard work!

Thank you again.  I really enjoyed the research even though I didn't do anything!

Best wishes

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: Salford Lass on Wednesday 18 June 08 00:42 BST (UK)

Well Done everyone, brilliant news emms  :D

Ken I have emailed you  ;)

Debbie

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Wednesday 18 June 08 10:30 BST (UK)

Emms

It is not located in a park, just a small grassy area - all four side have dozens of names wrote on them

Debbie

Not had your email yet

Regards
Ken

ps
opps just seen what I wrote on the photo "side side" should have been "this side"

Sorry I had to remove the Google Earth photo as I had breached Googles Copyright using it on Rootschat.

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: josey on Wednesday 18 June 08 11:43 BST (UK)

Only just got in to look at photos - amazing stuff Ken. A case of many brains doing plenty of forensic surfing...and coming up with the goods. And one kind man actually 'attending the premises'. Brilliant map...we should open a detective agency!!! Ha Ha.

Josey

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 18 June 08 12:05 BST (UK)

Wow, that's a pretty comprehensive answer!

The map is brilliant, Ken.  Thank you very much!  I see what you mean about it having been slum cleared!

I think Manchester City Council/ Channel four should know about those hundeds of names!

Thank you again!

I will have another look for William Diggle's record.  I don't think it's been put on so far.

Best wishes

Emms

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Wednesday 18 June 08 16:14 BST (UK)

Emms

Not sure what you mean "I don't think it's been put on so far"  ???

Are you talking about his name? or have I missed something  :P :P :P

Ken  ;)

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: colliecuts on Wednesday 18 June 08 16:30 BST (UK)

I think Emms means , his details on the board

Al

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Wednesday 18 June 08 16:57 BST (UK)

Do we need photos of all 4 sides?  ;D

it's only 5 minutes down the road so no problem with getting them.

Ken

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 18 June 08 17:41 BST (UK)

Hi Ken

Sorry

Totally confused matters thinking aloud!

No, what you've done is absolutely brilliant.

I was thinking where I would go from here, like looking again for his service record on Ancestry.

Sorry about that.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 18 June 08 17:52 BST (UK)

There's a few Williams there Emms !!  :D

I'd be glad to help if you can't get them !!

Annie  :)

PS I just LOVE those boys .... they make me laugh everytime I look at them !!

Sorry ... I'm going off on a tangent again !!  :)

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 18 June 08 20:16 BST (UK)

Hi Annie

Thank you.

That's very kind, but I don't think his reco5rds have been put on line.

In fact, I suspect that they haven't survived.  I've been throgh what's on Ancestry and some of those are the some name repeated, though I'm keeping muy eye out for any new uploads.

Yes, I guess you mean the dancing boys this time.

They're brilliant, aren't they?

Thank you again!

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Thursday 19 June 08 10:36 BST (UK)

Hi rootaholics

I am going back to the monument today to photograph all sides for salford lass - so if anyone wants copies PM me  ;D

Ken

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: Salford Lass on Thursday 19 June 08 11:10 BST (UK)

Hi Ken

Thanks for going for me  :)

Good sleuthing every one

Debbie

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 19 June 08 15:37 BST (UK)

Hi Ken

Thank you for theoffer.

I was just thinking of asking.

Have pm'd you.

Best wishes

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 19 June 08 22:51 BST (UK)

Hi

You can see Mack's reply on the military board here.  Another mystery!

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=310097.new

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 19 June 08 22:52 BST (UK)

Thank you Ken

The photo's are brilliant.  I will enjoy sifting through those!

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Monday 01 December 08 23:09 GMT (UK)

Hi and Thank You to everyone who helped with this.   :) :) :) 8) 8) :)

Thank you again Ken for the wonderful photo's, much enjoyed.

I've been sharing them with another family member and she came to wondering what was the significance of him being on this particular memorial?  He wasn't born there unless they took in a wider area.  ?  Live in Collyhurst?  Belong to a certain Parish?  I was guessing he lived there, but when put on the spot of course I didn't actually know.

Then I thought maybe someone on here might know the answer to that, as well.  I'm guessing as it was by public subscription that the council had a hand in it.

Best wishes and Thank You again. :)

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Tuesday 02 December 08 11:35 GMT (UK)

Hi Emms

Have you got a copy of the google map? if not please make a copy to your pc. I need to remove it from rootschat.

Ken

ps
This was a good hunt  ;D

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Tuesday 02 December 08 13:12 GMT (UK)

Hi Ken

Thank you.  I enjoyed it too.  A great response from you all. 

Thank you again.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: goldy on Friday 26 June 09 22:50 BST (UK)

I found a pic pre restoration. http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?irn=71840&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=71380

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?irn=71841&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=71381


http://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=71382&QueryPage=%2F

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Saturday 27 June 09 00:03 BST (UK)

Ooh!  After all this time!  Thank you for those links Goldie!

So cvan people who are local say, what the building on the right in the photo is?  I guess that means this is the Church of the Saviour?

Also, can we tell what date it is?

Best wishes

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: goldy on Saturday 27 June 09 19:32 BST (UK)

the red brick building idsthe cinema/bingo hall.
Across the road the church now looks like this.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/churchmap?T=SP,CCC=LAN,ID=SD8542700163


the pic said pre 1981.

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Saturday 27 June 09 23:38 BST (UK)

Hi Goldy

Thank you again.

I'm getting a bit confused now though.  Do I gather that like many places round there, there's been some demolition, or are the memorial, and the church, both under those trees?

Has the church been knocked down too?

Thank you for all your efforts.  This is great.

Good night.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: Conductor Mike on Sunday 28 June 09 22:56 BST (UK)

Just a follow on to this one - The UK National Inventory of War Memorials has this memorial recorded, ref no 10721. The description on there provides additional references to articles etc. incl a story about interruptions to its cleaning in 2005! 

The entry also has no details of the 400+ boys named on the memorial, so when the photo's are circulating, please send copies of the names panels to:

UK National Inventory of War Memorials
Imperial War Museum
Lambeth Road
London SE1 6HZ

In the meantime, I've followed the story with great interest. Well done all concerned.

Thanks in advance.  Conductor Mike

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: manmack on Monday 29 June 09 10:21 BST (UK)

hiya guys.
the memorial,is for those who died in WW1,and also for those who served and survived
one of the names,thats been carved on the renovated memorial[j foco] has been mistranscribed,it should be J.HOGG.
some of these men are from collyhurst,new cross,newton heath and miles platting

heres two of them
pte 4513 herbert fleet
enlisted 16-1-16
aged 19
18th lancashire fusiliers
58 paget st,rochdale rd,manchester
parents richard+selina
occupation,pawnbrokers assistant
transferred to the 12th garrison battalion,north staffs regt
wounded 11-9-18
died of wounds,at 137th field ambulance,on 12-9-18

lance corporal 17433 herbert,andrew murdoch
enlisted 26-9-14
aged 32
15th royal scots
religion,CofE
worked as a packer on princess st,manchester
born salford
married miss annie moore at st.johns church,moston,on 3-6-11
son herbert,born 8-1-13
resided 278 collyhurst rd,manchester
father william,122 st simon st,salford
killed in action,1-7-16
his body was never found or identified,listed on the thiepval memorial

mack

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: manmack on Monday 29 June 09 10:55 BST (UK)

sgt 6769 frederick,joseph lawrenson[real name joseph,frederick]
enlisted 1-9-16
16th manchesters
aged 22
son of joseph+theresa
born new cross,manchester 1892
killed in action,30-7-17
mother sailed for canada from liverpool on the SS melita,on 19-4-1921,and lived at 5 mcalpine st,toronto,canada
his brother,pte 6518 james,henry lawrenson
also 16th manchesters
lived at 37 sherwood st,rochdale rd,manchester

mack

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: goldy on Monday 29 June 09 13:04 BST (UK)

On multimap you can get a birds eye view. The plot on the corner of eggington street and rochdale rd is the church. Across rochdale rd where it says burgin walk is the memorial.

http://www.multimap.com/maps/?qs=collyhurst&countryCode=GB#map=53.49773,-2.22086|20|256&be=42613825|East&bd=useful_information&loc=GB:53.49771:-2.22096:17|eggington%20street|Eggington%20Street,%20Manchester,%20Lancashire,%20England,%20M40%207

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Monday 29 June 09 17:07 BST (UK)

Hi Mack

This is all fascinating stuff!  Amazing.  Thank you!

Goldy, thank you!

I faally got the picture - though Multimap shut my browser down.

Thank you.

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: manmack on Monday 29 June 09 17:14 BST (UK)

a couple more.
L/cpl 16779 walter durkin
8th northumberland fusiliers
son of george+mary,6 leigh st east,oldham rd,manchester
married edith in 1909
killed in action,on 26-9-16
aged 28

pte 8549 henry,w scrymgeour[harry]
lancashire fusiliers
33 inkerman st,collyhurst
transferred to RAOC as pte 032825
transferred to the army reserve in 1919
date of death unknown[possibly late august]
buried in phillips park cemetery,on 2-9-19
grave ref.L.consecrated.1277
aged 26
hes not listed on the CWGC,if his death was the result of his service during the war,then he will be entitled to war grave status,and a headstone can be erected

pte 1788 herbert philbin
12th manchesters
17 hamilton st,collyhurst[brother john]
parents,patrick+elizabeth
born.collyhurst
killed in action,on 18-9-18
aged 24

DM2/163909 richard,thomas stead
ASC
son of richard+elizabeth,38 hannah st,collyhurst
died in hospital at newbury on 24-2-17
aged 29
buried in manchester gen cemetery,on 1-3-17
grave ref.consecrated.5044

mack

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: uk2003 on Monday 29 June 09 19:55 BST (UK)

Just passing so took these less than a hour ago

Looking at the monument from Eggington Street & the location of St Saviours.

Old church gone new carbuncal red brick church in it's place.

Ken

Ps
Will also do what Conductor Mike suggested

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: manmack on Monday 29 June 09 21:09 BST (UK)

four more
pte 12166 henry middleton
16th lancs fusiliers
enlisted 1914
33 elizabeth ann st,collyhurst
died of wounds,on 12-7-16

pte 15923 joseph rice
8th kings own scottish borderers
enl sept 1914
4 brass st,rochdale rd,manchester
killed at loos,on 25-9-15
aged 19

L/cpl 29232 arthur lloyd
enlisted sept 1915
manchester regt[30022]
transferred to 9th loyal north lancs regt
11 upper vauxhall st,rochdale rd,manchester
killed at arras,on 10-4-17[only been in france 3 weeks]

pte 170635 william shaw
525th labour coy
51 harrowby st,collyhurst
formerly 3rd kings liverpool regt[pte 30712
accidentally killed at cologne,on 22-1-19

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Monday 29 June 09 23:23 BST (UK)

hi Ken and Mack.

Thank you!  I'm really enjoying these!

No wonder I didn't recognise the church Ken, if it didn't look like the old one!

Good night

Emms

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Tuesday 18 November 14 11:32 GMT (UK)

Hi all.

Thank you , all who took part in this old hunt.  I really enjoyed this.  I notice the memorials and the lists of names are now starring on the memorial.

After a break and various family moves and events I've decided it's time to try and find out more about my WW1 heroes.

I do know a bit about the family events and connections for William though I'd love to hear from anyone else linked to him.

What I would love to know more about is what happened to him amd why.

I've looked on Ances try and CWGC, but unless anything new has appeared, no success.

I'm guessing it's war diaries, medal card details etc but possibly also local newspapers, etc. 

I now many locals including ours have new indexes from newspapers and studies on locals involved.

I'm not much good on battalions etc and codes on medal cards so I thought I'd start with you in case anyone has local knowledge on those involved or knows any local books or indexes., before the WW1 boards.

I'd love to hear from anyone with ideas or who had local family in the Royal Engineers at the time.

Best wishes

Emms  :)

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: Mark Charlie Chorlton on Friday 25 January 19 13:30 GMT (UK)

Quote from: manmack on Monday 29 June 09 21:09 BST (UK)

four more
pte 12166 henry middleton
16th lancs fusiliers
enlisted 1914
33 elizabeth ann st,collyhurst
died of wounds,on 12-7-16


pte 15923 joseph rice
8th kings own scottish borderers
enl sept 1914
4 brass st,rochdale rd,manchester
killed at loos,on 25-9-15
aged 19

L/cpl 29232 arthur lloyd
enlisted sept 1915
manchester regt[30022]
transferred to 9th loyal north lancs regt
11 upper vauxhall st,rochdale rd,manchester
killed at arras,on 10-4-17[only been in france 3 weeks]

pte 170635 william shaw
525th labour coy
51 harrowby st,collyhurst
formerly 3rd kings liverpool regt[pte 30712
accidentally killed at cologne,on 22-1-19

Hi manmack

My great uncle 12746 pte Richard Chorlton
 8th Kings Own Scottish Borders.
Lived on Sheerwood st Collyhurst and was also killed in Loos 25-9-15. I have a collection of his letters in which he mentions Joe Rice. Looks like they were friends that joined together and fell together.
Regards MARK.

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 25 January 19 17:54 GMT (UK)

Hello, Mark. Have you added information to your great-uncle's entry on Imperial War Museum Lives of the First World War website? https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: Mark Charlie Chorlton on Friday 25 January 19 18:03 GMT (UK)

Hi Maiden Stone.

I did so on every man remembered and I shall also do it on the link you shared. I have a lovely collection of his things and letters he wrote. Also the medals he never got to see.
Thanks, Mark

Title: Re: WW1 Memorial - Where?
Post by: emmsthheight on Sunday 14 November 21 13:34 GMT (UK)

Hi all

Thank you everyone who helped find this memorial and sent lovely photos

William Diggle wad my Grandads cousin and that’s why I had the original photo.

I hope this finds you all safe and well

I’m a bit out of practice

I’m not looking like travelling much yet.

I was wondering if anyone knows if there was a ceremony there today and if poppies were laid or took photos

Ive bought crosses a couple of times but never got

Take care

Best wishes

Emms
 :)