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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jeastead on Tuesday 10 June 08 08:00 BST (UK)

Title: Manchester police force.
Post by: jeastead on Tuesday 10 June 08 08:00 BST (UK)
Need help to trace a James Stead who was a police officer in 1800's either in Manchester or Salford.
James Stead was for 1847 and was married to Hannah Maden., so would probably been in the force from 1860 onwards.
thank you
Jean Stead

Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: willow154 on Tuesday 10 June 08 11:02 BST (UK)
Hi Jean,
Brilliant dates, Jean - joined just at the right time! :D
Apparently there's a museum:
Greater Manchester Police Museum
 Newton Street
Manchester
 M1 1ES
The personnel appointment ledgers go from 1858 - 1975/76.
Also ones for Salford City Police 1860s - 1940s.
It says the Museum staff answer queries from family historians, general researchers, etc. Study space is also provided for researchers making personal visits.
Hope this helps + good luck.
Kind regards,
Paulene :)
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: uk2003 on Tuesday 10 June 08 12:00 BST (UK)
Hi Jean

I have checked the records of Police Officers in Manchester 1858 to 1918 and cannot find a James Stead.

Here is a list of them in the database

Edwin Stead Joined: 17/01/1861; Aged: 25; Born at Horton, Yorkshire, England; Religion:
Methodist; Single

Joseph Stead Joined: 23/10/1885; Aged: 22; Born at Manchester, Lancashire, England;
Religion: Wesleyan; Single

Richard Stead Joined: 08/04/1859; Aged: 28; Born at Moor Monkton, Yorkshire, England;
Religion: C of E; Married (York Police 6 mths)

Thomas Stead Joined: 09/04/1861; Aged: 28; Born at Horton, Yorkshire, England; Religion:
Methodist; Single

Regards
Ken
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: DS on Tuesday 10 June 08 13:10 BST (UK)
Hi

Referring to the 1861 census (Rochdale RG9/3045 Folio 49 Page 40), if I am looking at the correct family, it seems like it was James's father, Joseph Stead who was a Borough Police Officer (in Rochdale).

Joseph was born in Salford c1815 according to the census sheet. They are living at 6 Victoria Place, Wardleworth in 1861.

In 1871 Joseph is still a Policeman (in Rochdale) living at 7 Hudson Street, Spotland (Rochdale RG10/4120 Folio 126 Page 34)

If you think that these might be the correct people, please let us know if you would like the full census listings.

DS ;)
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: DS on Tuesday 10 June 08 19:34 BST (UK)
Hi

I think it is probably best if I post the census entries for this family now before I forget who they are and where they were ;D.

If they are not the correct people, please just disregard them.

Here is the sheet which shows James still at home with his parents (He married in 1869)......

1861

Rochdale RG9/3045 Folio 49 Page 40

Joseph Stead Head M 46 Borough Police Officer Lancashire Salford
Mary do Wife M 45 Lancashire Manchester
Mary A do Daur U 19 Cotton Slubber Cheshire Moston
Thomas do Son 16 Cotton Packer Cheshire Lymm
James do Son 14 Carpet Printer ? Cheshire Lymm
Maria do Daur 13 Cotton Piecer Cheshire Appleton
Charlotte do Daur 9 Scholar Lancashire Manchester

6 Victoria Place, Wardleworth, Rochdale

DS
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: DS on Tuesday 10 June 08 19:35 BST (UK)
 

1871

Rochdale RG10/4120 Folio 126 Page 34

Joseph Stead Head M 56 Policeman Lancashire Salford
Mary do Wife M 55 Lancashire Manchester
Joseph do Son U 30 Labourer for Builder Lancashire Manchester

7 Hudson St, Spotland, Rochdale.

DS
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: DS on Tuesday 10 June 08 19:39 BST (UK)
1841

Congleton HO107/122/17 Folio 5 Page 4

Joseph Stead 29 Constable
Mary do 28
William do 9
Joseph do 4
John do 2
Mary do 1mo

Moston House, Warmington, Sandbach, Cheshire.

Young Mary born in Cheshire. All others not born in Cheshire.

The christenings for the first three named children (at Manchester Cathedral) seem to be on the IGI which you can see at http://www.familysearch.org/. There is also a possible marriage shown on the IGI at Manchester Cathedral in 1831 between a Joseph Stead and a Mary Lee.

I cannot find the family in 1851. I suspect they were in Manchester and living in one of the areas for which the census sheets have been severely damaged and were unable to be filmed. I have looked on the unfilmed census index but could not see this particular family (although there are several other people called Stead on there).

DS ;)
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: DS on Tuesday 10 June 08 20:59 BST (UK)
 
I cannot find the family in 1851.
Hi

I have just had my attention drawn to this magnificent piece of work, done some time ago, by Deeiluka 8).....

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,290829.msg1735423.html#msg1735423

....which shows the family in 1851.

DS
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: DS on Wednesday 11 June 08 01:11 BST (UK)
 
 
 
Hello again

Just a small point about the 1851 entry....

I am fairly sure that the son listed as “Chas” aged 11 is actually called John on the original census sheet.....but that should not take anything away from Deeiluka’s brilliance in actually finding this entry....the writing on it is dreadful.

DS
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: jeastead on Wednesday 11 June 08 04:01 BST (UK)
Hi DS and thank you so much for all the information you have posted. I think Joseph must have been the police officer and not James (sorry about that) I will follow up on your information and see how I go.
thank you again
Jean Stead
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: jeastead on Wednesday 11 June 08 04:06 BST (UK)
Thanks also to Kenhar and Willow154 for their input to my request. I  emailed the Manchester Museum some months ago but as yet have not had a reply.
thank you both once again
Regards
Jean Stead
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 11 June 08 04:57 BST (UK)




You know DS ... I just  have to say - that I love to sit and watch you dig out information .... I try and learn from you - but I can't do what you do ! wish I could !!  ::)

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: jeastead on Wednesday 11 June 08 07:10 BST (UK)
Hello Liverpool Annie - good to see you online again. DS is brilliant isn't he?
And from his photo he was a good looker when he was younger!!!(thats if the photo was of him)
Regards
Jean Stead
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: Gillg on Wednesday 11 June 08 10:29 BST (UK)
Jean

You may find that if your ancestor was in the Rochdale Borough police force, Manchester Police Museum won't have the records.  This is what happened to me when I enquired about my grandfather, who was a Special Constable in Rochdale Borough force in WW1. 

As an independent county borough Rochdale had its own force until around 1969, when the force was merged with Lancs Constabulary.

The excellent Local Studies at Rochdale Library might be able to help, though:

http://www.link4life.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=c.showPage&pageID=29


Gillg
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: DS on Wednesday 11 June 08 16:58 BST (UK)
 
Hi Annie and Jean

Thank you for your kind comments :).

I (obviously) appreciate getting a complement but at the same time feel rather guilty and embarrassed when I compare my own contribution to that of countless others who have done much more for much longer.

Cheers

DS

ps Nowadays, imagine a cross between Harold Steptoe and (role model) Shadrach Dingle ;D
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 11 June 08 17:08 BST (UK)


ps Nowadays, imagine a cross between Harold Steptoe and (role model) Shadrach Dingle ;D


Oh no ! ... you'll always be a little elf to me !!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: HOWMUCH on Wednesday 11 June 08 20:43 BST (UK)
Hello Jean
Not sure if it is connected with your ancestor but Pigots Directory of Manchester and Salford in 1841 has a Joseph STEAD living at 10 Hesketh Street , Chorlton on Medlock with occupation of policeman .
Please disregard it if not connected or you are already aware .

Evening all !
Who said that ?
Eric
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 11 June 08 21:49 BST (UK)
Hi All Fascinating stuff.

If you're thinking of going further, my gggrandfather was a police officer in Rochdaale and died there in 1881.  They may even have creossed paths!

Anyway, the service records are at Lancasahire Record Office, Preston.  I wa sent a brilliant two large sheets with birth date, army creer, service dates and forces and more.  A couple of pounds for copying and postage.

I actually found it while I was there, and they copied it and sent it on, because they couldn't do it on the normal  copier.  They sent it nearly straight away though.

I've been told there's a search onl;ine now and you can maybe order too.

I should check it out.

Good hunting.

Emms
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: jeastead on Thursday 12 June 08 00:20 BST (UK)
Hello Eric, Could well be that it is the same Joseph Stead. Mine was born in 1815.
Is there anymore info on family etc.
Regards
Jean Stead


Hello Jean
Not sure if it is connected with your ancestor but Pigots Directory of Manchester and Salford in 1841 has a Joseph STEAD living at 10 Hesketh Street , Chorlton on Medlock with occupation of policeman .
Please disregard it if not connected or you are already aware .

Evening all !
Who said that ?
Eric
Quote
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: jeastead on Thursday 12 June 08 00:26 BST (UK)
Hi EMMS,
Thanks for the information - I found the site but will have to write to see if they can help as I live in Australia. It would be really something if I could get the same info which you got on your ancestral police officer.
Maybe they did work together at the same station - I will keep my fingers crossed.
Regards
Jean Stead
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 12 June 08 10:30 BST (UK)
Hi Jean

It's a while since I went to Preston as I'm up in Cumbria and I've not had chance for a few years, but if someone is going, oit doesn't take long to look.  I

 was given a huge tome, with a two page or so, beautifully written entry for each officer.  I think it was in alphabetical order.  Someone might go in.  It's great to get the copy eventually, but at leastt if you have the info you can use it.

I'll look for the exact details later, but it gave his army regiment and dates and I was lucky it was on the National archives and I requested a scan, got an estimate by email and ordered the army record online.  It came in abiout a week, for a few pounds, beautifully oresented, A3.

Your ancestor may not have been in the army, but loads were.

It's worth a look on The National Archives UK search.  I didn't play with variants, but if you look, there's a Set of notes for a police Constable Stwad of Tong - only a couple of years, early 19C, at West Yorkshire Archives, in Bradford.  If you fpress the right links you should get the email address.

If he was ever in Wigan, I found two stories about him in newspapers  on the Wigan world site.

I'll look for the exact details later, when I've more time to play.

Best wishes

Emms
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: jeastead on Thursday 12 June 08 10:49 BST (UK)
Hello Emms,
Thank you for your reply,  I would be really grateful for any info or advice you can give me and look forward to hearing from you in the future.
It was interesting that you should mention Preston as I came from Chorley which is only a few miles away. thank you again
Jean
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: emmsthheight on Thursday 12 June 08 17:49 BST (UK)
Hi Jean.  So you're a real Lancashire lass!

I've put the police searevh page on the site on here.  I'm not sure how far you got on the site.

Modified: Sorry that's not working.  I'll try again later.

I put Stead in, but there are four, but not exactly yours.  Could Joseph have another name?  Joseph Cliffe Stead?

Also, Thomas, Brian, John Alfred, William George, and John James Newstead, among others.

I wonder where he actually finished his career, because that might have a bearing on where his record went.

There's a form to filkel in on line, too, but maybe you found that.

Best wishes from England.

Emms
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: bursy on Thursday 12 June 08 19:19 BST (UK)
Hi,
From the 1855 Manchester directory,

Joseph Stead,       Policeman,       108 Bradford Rd,


Hope it helps,
Dave
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: HOWMUCH on Thursday 12 June 08 19:37 BST (UK)
Hello Jean
I see Bursy has come up with some other information about Joseph .
I notice from your earlier post that you have been in touch with the Greater Manchester Police Museum sometime ago .
I was surprised to see that you did not receive a reply .I have contacted them myself for an ancestor who was in the Manchester Police in 1839 when the force was just starting out . The museum and curator got back to me straight away with the information . I would suggest you could contact them again to see if they hold any records but you may only get the same as Kenhar has already found .
Their E mail is police.museum@gmp.police.uk .
the information I received put me onto the Lancashire Police Constabulary ( a different force) and I E mailed them with all the details  . They sent an E mail back and told me what they held and then gave you the option of sending for it . It cost me £10 and I got a copy of the original appointment of my ancestor including his description and details about his family (married , how many children etc .)
Also his record stating where he had worked and any exams passed etc . plus his collar numbers .
Good luck
Eric
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: jeastead on Friday 13 June 08 07:29 BST (UK)
Thanks Bursy ans Howmuch,  I will continue to search for my elusive policeman.
Regards
Jean Stead
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: jeastead on Friday 13 June 08 07:31 BST (UK)
Hi again Emms,
 Seems my Joseph went to Rochdale after being in Manchester. Bursy has found that he was in Rochdale at the 1871 census. Will keep looking.
although I was brought up in Chorley I was born in Perth Scotland. My siblings were born in Chorley and Preston and one of them still live in Chorley
Regards
Jean
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: emmsthheight on Friday 13 June 08 13:02 BST (UK)
Hi Jean

Sorry I never got back to tell you about the service record I got.  It was a busy day yesterday.

Thank you for the feedback.  You look as if you've been followind me very closely!

My  gggrandfather must hve arrived after yours and retired and died while yours was still in office!  So they did coincide.

I meant to add, but I forgot in yesterday's hurry that of course Lancashire Record Office hold a lot of service records,  Rochdale Local Studies might still have other information photographs of what was going on in Rochdale.

They may also know where else to look for service records and if there are any more local records.

I think an email is a good odea.  I'll pm you first so we don't double up unless we want to.

They're lovely people and they gave me loads of help before the days of major online activity.  I rang her when I first got Internet - dial up pay per view and theirs was one of the first sites I saw in it's infancy with about one page but with a telephone number!  We had many of their books too.

I'll be in touch

Best wishes

Emms
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: edredwel on Tuesday 03 December 24 13:35 GMT (UK)
Like others I'm interested in a policeman named Joseph Stead, as he is on a marriage record dated 1859.  The marriage took place in Ireland but I believe that he only went over to witness the marriage of his son, who was in the army at the time and who (presumably) was marrying an Irish girl name Agnes.  Any help would be welcome.
Title: Re: Manchester police force.
Post by: emmsthheight on Wednesday 04 December 24 01:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Jean and Ededwel

Fancy getting a reply after all this time!  Lovely to hear from you   I’m not related to the Stead brothers but my gggrandfather Charles Stickley Ingram a police officer in Rochdale has kept me puzzling.

He used both or either surnames as did others in the family.

I hope you are all well. Like most of us I’ve had a busy few years and a lot less time to play on family history,  Also progress with Harlesden’s is slow anyway.

Also I’ve now moved back to our family home in ZSouthport not a million miles from Chorley and Tochdale etc but not managed even to get to Rochdale or Salford!

Even so I wonder if any of Charless stories might suggest any patallel clues for you?

Charles was born in Dorset and Ihave his army record discharged in the castle in Carlisle. I lived there for a while but strugglespd. I did find a couple of burials for Stickley buried in the cemetery. Turned out he’d been married briefly and his wife had died there

Then married my gggrandmother Margaret Muilville etc

Really struggled for a wife but some great researchers found him andMargaretunder variations in the GRO registers. After I

moved away in the RC chapel of the time in Carlisle!  She was Irish and it got me thinking Had he also been in Ireland. I’d really struggled with the early marriage but found the marriage in an online index for one of the large sites  Notlong before her death

I discovered Charles had been a police officer in a few Lancashire towns including Wiganand Burnley. I found that record in PrestonwhereI used to meet my auntie and research and natter!  It didn’t mention allthe towns

Most of the extra information came from the great website Lancashire Online Parish clerk. Amazing,  loads of transcribed mds.

Also early on Ifound a few intriguing entries in the Newspapersonline.

Since then many have been added  Last weekend whenFind my past was free for Remembrance Sunday I found a lot and screen shotted them.

Some good interesting snippets about his life at the time as a Bobby both his work and the places he was working. I also found his marriage toMargaret

Census in Carlisle  and certificates gave me the parents names.

One more snippet. I lost my information from police and army records in the move but it’s all online if I didn’t have it

Lancashire Lantern from the archives ?   Army record on forces records. Find my past.?

Sorry. Mostly from memory 

I’ll look at my copies and see if your Stead’s appear!

Keep well all

Emms  :)is