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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cardiganshire => Wales => Cardiganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: MC on Monday 09 June 08 16:03 BST (UK)
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Would be grateful for Census lookups please - 1841 & 1851 if possible.
John and Cordelia Wigley (Wrigley?) lived Aberayron, Cardinganshire, Wales after marrying in London in 1804. A Cordelia Wigley died in 1852 and this might have been her.
Cordelia's maiden name was Cordelia Pryce Clunne, and her brother was Thomas Pryce Clunne.
Thank you MC
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1851 - very poor image so can't make out very much:
Ho107/2484 Folio 221 page 11
46 Pier Street, Henfynyw, Aberayron
George Wigley, 58, Lieutenant ?, b. Cumberland
Elizabeth Margaret Wigley, wife, 48, b. Hampshire
Georgina Maxwell Wigley, dau, 22, b. Carmarthenshire
Cordelia Wigley, mother, widow, 78, b. Middlesex
Elinor Davies, servant, 30, b. Cardiganshire
Elinor Jones, servant, 22,b. Cardiganshire
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1841:
HO107/ 1373 Book 3 Folio 5 Page 6
Market Street, Henfynyw, Aberayron
George Wigley, 45-49, Army HD (?)
Elizabeth, 35-39
Alban(? -male), 8
Cordelia, 65-69, Ind
Jane Caleb, 20-24 Female servant
All except Jane, not b. county
Gadget
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This looks a good possible for marriage:
28 Nov 1827 George James Wigley Lt 63 Regt. - Elizabeth Margaret Davies, St Peters Carm. at Llanddewi Aberarth Cardigan
Cas
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It fits very well, Cas :D
Any sign of the Alban ? aged 8 on the 1841.
Gadget
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Marriages only go up to 1837 gadget :-\ Cannot see him on 1851 or Georgina in 1841, will take another look...
Marriages Jun 1852
Brittan Alfred Aberayron 11b 87
Edwards Elizabeth Aberayron 11b 87
Lloyd John Aberayron 11b 87
Wigley Georgiana Maxwell Aberayron 11b 87
Cas
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Here is Georgina in 1861 - RG9 Piece 1728 Folio 52 Page 54
12 Brighton Park, Clifton, Bristol, Gloucestershire
Alfred Brittan 38 head, attorney at law, City & County of Bristol
Georgina Mox Maxwell Brittan 32 Carmarthenshire, Wales
Mary Brittan 8 dau, Bristol City & County Clifton
Martha Evans 16 house serv, Aberayron, Cardigan
Hannah Taylor 22 house serv, Lancs
Cas
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IGI (extracted)
Bpt 10 July 1833 Llandefeilog, Carmarthen
Alban Beaufoy Hughes Wigley
parents - George James Wigley and Elizabeth Margaret
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Cannot find a death for Alban...but here is his mother
Deaths Jun 1858 Wigley Elizabeth Margaret Aberayron 11b 43
Cas
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Just wondering about all this -
MC says that Cordelia and John married in 1804 but George was 58 on the 1851 :-\
Gadget
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mmmmm, perhaps we should wait before going any further...but Cordelia Wigley is not that common a name so should be the right family?
Cas :-\
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And she was b. Middlesex and it was Aberaryon
It was the only one in Cardigan that I could find and I tried Wrigley as well. Can't find a birth for George on the IGI or a marriage for John and Cordelia :-\
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Best leave it until we get feedback...am sure it is the right family.... ;)
Cas
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Yep and as the request was for 1841 and 1851 only, i think we've added some extras :)
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:D Oh! You have both been very busy with my request...Thank you Cas & Gadget very much - I had to toddle off to bed, it being the very early hours down here, so I snoozed while you both did the hard work.
You certainly found a Cordelia Wigley, and as Cas said, it is not a common name, but I was hoping she would be a little younger than the one on the Census...I don't know what to make of it all yet. Maybe it is not her, although the structure of the family, the way they named their children etc., is very similar to the way the Clunne family named theirs.
Information which might make things plainer...1st., re Thomas:
Thomas Pryce Clunne m. Ann Piplar in 1804 at St Margaret Pattens & St Gabriel, Rood Lane, London - they then went to live at Gravesend Kent, where they had Thomas Pipler Pryce Clunne 1808, Cordelia 1809, John (2) 1811 died, 1813 (bap St George, Gravesend) & Sarah 1817 - (the place 'Milton near Gravesend' comes up a lot - and names such as Cordelia and Thomas Pipler Pryce follow in the next generations)
By 1841 Census, Ann Clunne is a widow of independent means - but I haven't been able to find the death of her husband, Thomas Pryce Clunne, whose death would have occurred sometime between 1816 - 1841. I was hoping by following Cordelia via the Census, I might find out where they were both born, and I note that Cordelia of Aberayron was born in Middlesex.
Information on Cordelia:
Cordelia Pryce Clunne m. John Wigley same year as Thomas, 1804 at St Margaret Pattens & St Gabriel also...so I had assumed she was his sister and was led to believe that they went to Aberayron...
MC
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The one that I found was the only Cordelia Wigley in Aberayron in 1841/51 and was most likely the one who died in 1852.
From where did you get the information on their move to Wales?
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
I have been doing the Clunne history for a long time and when I found Cordelia had married in London at the same time as Thomas I passed the info onto other members of the same family. It was from one of these that I heard Cordelia had gone to Aberayron in Wales -
I have to say that more recent info says they had come from Scotland - (haven't followed that one yet) but my mother-in-law had said many, many years ago that 'uncle George Clunne' had said the family came from France, and even had a Castle there!(the closest I found in France was the Cluny monastery at Macon, founded 1910 by Duke William of Aquitaine!Of course the name is a 'place name' connected to the re-formed Benedictine monasteries. Uncle George was a first generation born Aussie who had met the family of Clunne's in England when he served in France & Gallipoli WW1 - he returned with gifts of jewellery from the family, but where they lived I have no idea.
I thought the Welsh version was the most promising as the name shows up early there - plus the Pryce (ap Rhys?) second name is Welsh is it not?
It appears that adding two and two in Genealogy sometimes gets three!
MC
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I think the Scottish 'bit' is a bit of a red herring. On the 1841 index, it says that she was born Scotland but the index is clearly 'N' (not born county) and a squiggle in the Country column which has been wrongly interpreted as S for Scotland. On the 1851, it is clearly Middlesex.
George was b. Cumber land. Could John Wigley have been in the Army? - maybe try the Nat Archives catalogue - WO series.
Gadget
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Hi Gadget could the 1851 read Camberwell....mistranscribed
In 1861 RG9 Piece 4192 Folio 70; Page 15
Aberayron, Llanddewi Aberarth
George Jas Wigley 68, wid, supervisor registar & ??? office, Camberwell, Surrey
+ 2 servants
Cas
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It was very faint - I'll go have another look and maybe fiddle with the levels on the image.
Back soon!
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Definitely Cumberland - I'm trying to put it into Imageshack to put it up here but it's slow. It could have been that the enumerator copied into the book wrongly.
Gadget
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Here it is - I upped the dark :)
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5914/wigley1851ha7.jpg)
but notice that Surrey has been crossed out and Cumberland put in . i bet it's an enumerator error :o
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I agree... looks like Surrey crossed out, prob an enumerator error
Cannot find a death for George in the area, there do seem to be a lot of coincidences between names/places
As Gadget suggested, possible army records, may hold a key..
Cas
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I am not sure what happened then. I posted an answer to your question but it seems not to have gone through.
I was saying that I knew a lot about the Piplars and the children of Thomas Pryce Clunne and Ann Piplar (the Piplars had a Coach Building Business) and the daughter Cordelia Clunne married William Lees the son of the wealthy 'roller door manufacturers' of Lancashire...and Lees link to Jonahan Wroe, the leader of the Christian Israelite Church.
I cannot get back any further on Thomas Pryce Clunne and Cordelia Pryce Clunne...
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So you are saying that Cordelia Wigley was born in Middlesex for sure?
That would be in keeping with the marriage taking place there.
MC
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I will check the Army link tomorrow - it is getting late down here 1:26 AM
thanks for all your help
MC
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As you can see from the part 1851 census Gadget posted her pob is listed as Middlesex and then something crossed by the enumerator, to check who is who go back to the 1851 Gadet posted.... they are in list order
Good luck,
Cas
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Back online on my laptop after major internet security changes on my PC.
It looks a bit like Isleworth. I'll see if I can enhance it when the desktop's finished all of it's changes.
Gadget
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I've now enlarged the place in Middlesex.
(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/4126/cordeliasbirthplacepg6.jpg)
it's something worth, I'm sure :-\
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??? hmmm Isleworth or something ending with Worth - I will think about that one.
MC
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Just incase you may prove a link
George is listed in Pigot & Co. South Wales directory for 1844
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/LlanddewiAber-Arth/Pigot1844.html
Cas
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Thank you for that Cas
MC
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??? hmmm Isleworth or something ending with Worth - I will think about that one.
MC
Isleworth was/is in Middlesex :)
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Ahhh! Interesting. I will check it out on the Phillimore's maps at the Library and see where it is - I wonder if it is near the area of Rood lane?
I have never heard of the place, but then I am sure there are many places over there I haven't heard of yet.
MC
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It's quite well known :)
I'll see if i can find Rood lane on maps for that area.
PS - Rood lane is in the City (EC3), Isleworth is further west near Hounslow
Gadget
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Thank you Gadget.
:) MC
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Cannot find a death for Alban...but here is his mother
Deaths Jun 1858 Wigley Elizabeth Margaret Aberayron 11b 43
Cas
Hi there,
I thought you might be interested to know that Alban Beaufoy Hughes WIGLEY migrated to Australia married there. He was my gr-great grandfather! I don't have all my records with me as they are in storage in Australia, and I moved to the UK 7 months ago! If you are interested in knowing more about him and his genealogical line, I can ask my parents to look up my records and forward them to me! I am on the brink of asking them to do so anyway - so let me know if anyone wants further info! :-)
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Hello Magdalena67
I found your Alban in Vic - and he certainly had that double barrell sort of name that my husbands family had. There was even an Elizabeth Hughes Clunne in our lot.
The problem with Albans father George, was that he was born much earlier than I would have expected, as Cordelia Pryce Clunne only married in 1804...unless she was 2nd wife to George's father??
I just can't justify yet, saying that we belong with them. I would appreciate if you could ask you mother if she is aware of our name and get back to me if that is all right with you.
MC
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By my estimate she would have been 20 when he was born, and I put George's marrying later in life down to his military career. It wasn't unusual, expecially as he was 'career military' and a lieutenent by the time of this census. But I completely agree with you regarding double checking. I am a stickler for working out the connections to my satisfaction and I haven't conclusively ruled Cordelia in myself!
I will ask my mother to forward the recrords I have in Australia, unfortunately, though, we no longer have a connection with this family. My granfather's mother died 3 weeks after he was born, and as his father remarried he knew nothing of her family (Annie WIGLEY). I did track down his cousin and visited her about 15 years ago but she has passed away now. One interesting thing she did mention, though, was that her father said, "Alban used to get into trouble for speaking French when he was a child". I wondered if there was a connection they were trying to 'stamp out'... ? I love this puzzle, don't you?
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Hi Magdalena
I am so sorry for taking this long to respond. I took on a project for my sister and bit off more than I could chew. I had no time for anything else.
Regards your George Wigley. Was he the: Wigley, George James Esq: Pier St. and the same "clerk to the magistrates, the Aberayron Union, Pier St, Nobility Gentry & clergy? I had that scribbled down in my notes, I am not sure where I dug that up from. My brain is still glug from all the work I have been doing so I hope it will come to me later.
There is a clue somewhere within Alban's name. Either he was so christened because the names "Alban & Beaufoy" were given to him in honor of past early Lords or Military men of Wales, ie someone called "? de Beaufoy" or "Alban de ?" Could Beaufoy be a place name? Or else it was the surname of his mother, or a grandmother? Could she be a Cordelia Beaufoy?
The French theme comes up with the Clunne's as well, with a great uncle George telling my mother-in-law that they had come from France, and even had a Castle there... ::) This uncle has made contact with the family during the first War, and he was in France as well - he returned to Australia with Jewellery the family gave him. He was a Printer/Journalist. Trouble is he died without anyone asking where the family were...we were just not interested back then. We are a lay back lot aren't we?
:-\I found the remains of the Cluny Monastery near Macon, founder in 910, then demolished during the French Revolution c1790. (repaired later to a less than former glory) There were 1500 such monasteries around the World - most places where such Churches had stood, were most likely still called Cluny even after the Reformation.
Your George would have been born into a world of War, as the French/Napoleonic Wars commenced c1792 and went to 1815, so perhaps he was drawn into the War at a young age...maybe he was not fond of hearing his little son speak in French for that reason alone. And the world got worse after the Wars stopped, because the place went into dreadful depression.
I am checking out a family of Pryse Clunne's around Montgomery (Llanidloes) etc. as well, as I am thinking they might have had something to do with the same names who turned up in London.
Keep in touch and let me know what transpires and I will let you know if I find any sort of connection to yours
MC
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Hi all, belated Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone - This might interest you Magdalena67 as George and Alban belong to you.
:'( I could cry for letting this go past me - it might have made a big difference to begin with...but anyway, here it is...further info on George Wigley and his background, that I already had in my possession but overlooked it.
I was trawling through some of my papers on the Wigleys of Aberayron and noticed that when John Wigley married Cordelia Pryce Clunne in 1804, he was listed with a W - and she was listed with an S - (obviously Widower and Spinster)
This more than ever convinces me that Cordelia of Aberayron was the correct one I was searching for. Given that she died in 1852, I don't expect that her death certificate would give much info about who her parents were, would it? Does anyone know?
George the son, listed in 1851 Census as being 58, and born Cumberland (where exactly is Cumberland?) was probably a son from John Wigleys first marriage. He would have been about 10 when his father re-married, or there abouts I would think.
Let me know what you think.
MC
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Hi MC
I am absolutely delighted to have discovered your message about the Pryce Clunnes, and hope that you're still interested in continuing with this research.
I have Cordelia (nee Pryce Clunne) Wigley's death certificate as well as information regarding her children and her marriage to John Wigley in 1804. I also have some info on George Wigley.
Are you able to advise why Cordelia and John went to Aberayron in Wales? Do you know what John Wigley's occupation was? I would be very grateful of any help, as I have not been able to make this breakthrough in ten years of research!!
All help gratefully received!!
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Hi Tulip
I have just pulled up your message. I only came in to turn off the computer as it is very late here (2am) and we had family over and my grandson was using it. I decided to check my emails and presto!
Yes indeed I am still researching this line. Are you related to the Wigley's Tulip? (given you have been searching for 10 years I suspect you are)
I would be very interested to know if you were aware of Cordelia's maiden surname prior to you getting their marriage certificate? Or...is the marriage certificate your only record of it?
I do have material on the Wigley line and am willing to exchange info. I will pull up the file tomorrow and go through it all again as I have not been working on it of late.
My main aim is to find out the name of Cordelia's parents and her correct place of birth. I was told her death would not give these details...is that correct?
I also have been fossicking in Wales records and found some things of interest.
Perhaps it might be better to convey the material to each other personally...what do you think?
MC