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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex Lookup Requests => Essex => England => Essex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Tracynz on Monday 09 June 08 09:28 BST (UK)
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Hi
Looking for Francis Western (male) born around 1779-1780
could be spelt Weston or Westren
Thanks heaps
Tracy
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Hello Tracy
Let the jigsaw commence
I gather these are yours?
1841
HAGGER LANE, WALTHAMSTOW, ESSEX
FRANCIS WESTERN 62 AG LAB YES (BORN ESSEX)
ELIZABETH " 52 YES
ABRAM " 22 " YES
JOHN " 20 " YES
FRANCES " 24 YES
ALFRED " 3 YES
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Their is a marriage on the IGI's of a FRANCIS WESTERN to a ELIZABETH JEWELL on the 7th January 1805 at St Leonards, Shoreditch, Middx........but is it them?
where were they all born?
1861
CHAPEL END, WALTHAMSTOW
ALFRED WESTERN HEAD 23 AG LAB WALTHAMSTOW
ELIZA " WIFE 27 BUCKLESBURY, BERKS
ALICE " DAUR 4 " "
CHARLES " SON 7 MONTHS WALTHAMSTOW
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1861
GREAT WARNER STREET, CLERKENWELL, MIDDX
JOHN WESTERN HEAD 40 LAB WALTHAMSTOW
SUSAN " WIFE 38 CAMBRIDGESHIRE
ELIZABETH " DAUR 12 CLERKENWELL, MIDDX
FRANCIS " SON 6 "
MARY " DAUR 4 "
ANNE " " 2 "
SUSAN " " 6 MONTHS "
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ABRAHAM WESTERN (the 2nd eldest child in 1841) appears to have married 1844 West Ham R.D..........what happened to him and was he also born Walthamstow..........is he around in 1851 (not available to me)
Bryant
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Hi Bryant
Thanks so much for your time in looking this up for me
This is the family I am trying to trace
Francis 62 in 1841 has daughter Frances 24 living with him and her son Alfred, she goes on to have another son Charles which is where I stem from
There is no father on the birth certificates for either Alfred or Charles, but Frances goes on to marry John Ranner
I have searched every possible site I can find looking for the birth of Francis but have found nothing at all
Tracy NZ
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Tracy
I gather that Frances has the maiden name of Western on those birth certs?
You need to find a christianing of one of the children on the 1841 or siblings that have flown the nest.......... and I would imagine that their could be quite a few more children that have done just that?
if that 1805 marriage is them, perhaps people of that name born in that area of Middx are worth investigating ?
Is this the marriage of Fanny
JOHN LESTER RANNER married FRANCIS WESTERN.......SHOREDITCH R.D...SEP QTR...1849
if so ........what happened to them after they married?
Bryant
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Hi again
I think I might have confused things :'(
I have the family (children) of Francis Western and Elizabeth Jewell
they are
jane 20/1/1805 Grace 10/4/1808 Susannah 10/9/1809 Thomas 1/9/1811
Martha 2/5/1813 Frances 20/10/1816 Abraham 11/4/1819 and John 18/2/1821
Frances 20/10/1816 had Alfred Western 13/5/1838 and Charles 3/10/1841 neither have a father on the birth certificates
Charles married Elizabeth Glanville - one of their children Frederick Alfred 14/11/1870
Charles and Elizabeth marry Shoreditch 29/12/1867
Frederick Alfred marry Annie Hannah Elizabeth Godfrey (have no details on her)
one of their children Henry Joseph married Rosina Gertrude Wake on 14/1/1933 who are my grandparents their son Arthur Frederick is my dad
so its Francis who married Elizabeth Jewell who im trying to find the parents of or where he was actually born
its all so mind bogling and pretty hard and limited from New Zealand tracing family in England
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Ahhhhhhh...
Quote.........
Frances 20/10/1816 had Alfred Western 13/5/1838 and Charles 3/10/1841 neither have a father on the birth certificates
Alfred & Charles.......on their marriage certs it should provide the father's names of the respective bride & groom.........did it give the father's name as John Lester Ranner or ?
Do you know who "Alfred" married ie Elizabeth (was she married before?) ......daughter Alice appears to be ALICE SARAH WESTON born Mar qtr 1857...Bradfield R.D (Bucklebury), if you haven't got that marriage cert you may need Alice's birth cert to ascertain mother's maiden name (I don't see the marriage!) and being 11+ by the time his mother Frances married in 1849 he would have known John Ranner wasn't his father! but did he know who was?
The aim is/was to find Francis's birth/place!.....but as he only appears in one census (1841) and that doesn't give where he was born........(Essex is a big place when searching)
find the birthplace of the earliest children and see where it leads you.....well that was the theory
so it was that marriage in 1805 and you do have places of birth for the earlier children ....that being Walthamstow. So......its a possibility that they returned to Francis's home turf after marriage? ........then again he could have originated from anywhere in Essex.......for example Rivenhall 45 miles away but no Francis
Elizabeth Jewell's family.........did they come from the Parish of St Leonard's Shoreditch?
QUESTION........
you don't know of any siblings of Francis born circa 1770's-1785 do you?
and you don't know for definite that he was born Walthamstow?
and on that Parish record of 1805 who are the witnesses?
Bryant
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Hi,
This looks like Francis in 1851,
1851 HO107/1769 f.243 p.27 Walthamstow
Chapel End
Francis WESTERN Head Widr 72 Lab Essex Moton End
Alfred " " 12 " " Walthamstow
Charles " " 9 " " " "
Sophia MAXWELL Wid 68 " " " "
Regards
Daisy
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SO............he came from MOTON END
you know what the next question is...........where the h... is MOTON END
I dug out the discs to have a look at it myself and it does look like MOTON/MOTOW/MOTOR END any of which is still unfamiliar with me!
Anyone any suggestions on where it is?
AND.........who is Sophia Maxwell (the widow) as she doesn't appear to be in the 1841 census! .......and the only female Maxwell to die in the years that follow within the West Ham R.D (Walthamstow) is Mary Maxwell (no age against her death) who died in 1864 West Ham R.D.
Francis Western appears to die in 1855 West Ham R.D........you could purchase the death cert and see if Sophia Maxwell (a sister perhaps?) registered the death........and if it wasn't her who did, who was it? as its doubtful it would have been one of the boys ie Alfred or Charles.
Bryant
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Thank you so much for your time and effort in assisting me - it is greatly appreciated and I hope that I dont overdo my persistence
Alfred was born (have birth cert) 13/5/1838 looks like Hale End in the Parish of Walthamstow - father has lines - - - - and mother is Francis Western
Charles was born (have birth cert) 3/10/1851 Hale End same as Alfred and no father lister
The death of Mr. Francis Western was reported by Harriet Challis who is is granddaughter. Francis daughter Susannah married Geroge Challis and it was registered in chapel End
in 1861 Charles was living with his mother and her husband then John Ranner - charles is listed as son in law - but this is not the case!!
Thanks again and hopefully there is a light at the end of this tunnell
tracy
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Hello Tracy
It was often the case that the term son in law was used (1861 census) when the child was a child of the wife's before he married her!
MOTO? END what/where could it be?
Do you have the witness names of the marriage of 1805?
*HARRIET CHALLIS (who registered Francis Western's death in 1855) doesn't appear to be the daughter of Susan & George and grandaughter of Francis? ..........what do you think...see below info
(Susannah Weston married George Chellis at Woodford in 1829)......unless Harriet has an alternative christian name such as Ann or Julia?.........who would be approx 21 and 17 in 1855..............
1841
WOOD STREET, WALTHAMSTOW, ESSEX
GEORGE CHALLICE 30 BRICKLAYER YES
SUSAN " 30 YES
ANN " 7 YES
JULIA " 3 YES
GEORGE " 2 YES
HENRY " 15 YES
MARTHA WESTERN 25 DRESSMAKER YES
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However.......their is a HARRIET CHALLIS aged 14 living in Billett Lane, Walthamstow in 1841 and she would appear to be the daughter? of Henry (50) & Maria Challis (38) with other children Eliza (11), James (eight) and Charles (6)
Bryant