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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Chrisrob on Sunday 08 June 08 23:36 BST (UK)

Title: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Chrisrob on Sunday 08 June 08 23:36 BST (UK)
Howdy All

My wife is starting to trace her family history and we have come across the surname of Sictorness.

We have been unable to find the origins of this surname and it is not listed in the SIT.

Does anybody know the origins?

My fifes grandmother Katherine Sictorness was born 1899 in Islington London.

If there is anybody tracing this family we would love to hear from you.

Thanks

Chris
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: nickgc on Monday 09 June 08 01:17 BST (UK)
Hello Chris,

Welcome aboard.

It is interesting that this name shows up very few times in FreeBMD, but every time it DOES show up it is in the London area and in 1900 or after.  This implies one or two things to me: late immigrants to England (but from where?); bad misspelling of another name, e.g. "Sigtornus", etc.  Since you have Katherine, what does the birth cert say about parents? 

There are a few current people of this name if you google it, but apparently nothing relating to genealogy.  I suspect the only way you are going to determine origin is to work backward from what you have until you see it morphing back to whatever its origins were.

Regards,

Nick
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: pinefamily on Monday 09 June 08 03:33 BST (UK)
From pronouncing it out loud, I think it is either Germanic or Baltic in origin. If the instances of the name are all London late-1800's on, then quite possibly the name could originate from a seaman (seamen?) from these regions. I think you may need to think laterally for alternative spellings.
Regards,
Darren
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 09 June 08 08:52 BST (UK)
There are only 19 people called Sictorness in the Office of National Statistics database, which contains a list of the surnames in use in England, Wales and the Isle of Mann in September 2002.
It looks like it derives from one family, and is probably a unique name, misspelled from some foreign name. There don't apear to be any in the 1901 census, although the first birth in FreeBmd is in 1900
Stan
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 09 June 08 09:08 BST (UK)
It may be worth getting the marriage certificate of Adelaide Sictorness registered in Bethnal Green in the Sep ¼ 1914, 1c 252, which should have her father's name.

Stan
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Necromancer on Monday 09 June 08 09:10 BST (UK)
Given that there are no recorded marriages in that exact surname before Births, all thats been suggested earlier about immigration would seem correct ..... altho mis-transcriptions / understandings and anglicising may have a role to play ....


Wonder if this chap was in the Country for the 1901 census ?

Deaths Dec 1925  
 
Sictorness  Alfred  55  Hackney  V1b P514

and this lass in the Hampstead District ?

Deaths Mar 1905    
 
Sictorness  Emily H  13  Hampstead  V1a P411




and this couple finally married !

Births Dec 1911  
 
Sictorness  Elizabeth B  Longman  Bethnal G.  1c 251    


Births Dec 1913  
 
Sictorness  James  Longman  Bethnal G.  1c 334    


Marriages Sep 1919  
 
Sictorness  Henry W  Longman  Bethnal G  1c 355    



Searching BMD for all events shows that the forenames were 'english' or at least anglicised in the case of marriage / death .....
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 09 June 08 09:22 BST (UK)
, and is probably a unique name, misspelled from some foreign name.

I should have said Anglicised from a foreign name.

Stan
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Tati on Monday 09 June 08 09:28 BST (UK)
Hi all  :)

Katherine's father Alfred Andrew's marriage was recorded as Sictornoss. He was born ca. 1870 St Luke according to the 1901 census. Will have a look for earlier census to check the spelling and see if his parents were born abroad!  :)
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 09 June 08 09:31 BST (UK)
This is the family in 1901 RG13/251/119/23 The names are as transcribed, but it is Sictorness
Alfred Andrew Sictornow 30
Harriett Sictornow 28
Adeliade Eliza Sietomxs 6
Emily Harriett Sietomxs 10
Henry William Sietomxs 4
Katherine Sietomxs 1

Stan
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Necromancer on Monday 09 June 08 09:45 BST (UK)
Curious - Alfred Harry/Henry/Andrew's wife Harriet - her Maiden name is Longman, the same as I had assumed was marrying in 1919 after having kids back as far as 1911 !

Sounds like 2 different people then.


The 1Q1890 Islington Marriage Cert is a MUST have   :)
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Tati on Monday 09 June 08 09:49 BST (UK)
1891
RG12/156 109 12
Islington
54 Freeling St

Alfred Sictornoss(?), head, 20, Brass Polisher, b. Shoreditch
Harriett, wife, 18, b. Islington
Emily H, dau, 1 mo, b. Islington

Having trouble finding him earlier!! 
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Necromancer on Monday 09 June 08 09:53 BST (UK)
Nice breakthru tho Tati !

 8)
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Galium on Monday 09 June 08 10:17 BST (UK)
Not that I have an explanation, but:

Births Sep 1870   
ABEL  Alfred Henry        Shoreditch    1c   76

1871

Edward Abel 34   Brass Finisher     Shoreditch
Ann Abel 31                                    Bermondsey
Edward 5                                        Shoreditch
Charles 3                                        Shoreditch
Alfred Abel 8m                                 Shoreditch
Elizabeth Rush M-i-L     

Class: RG10; Piece: 441; Folio: 110; Page: 6


*** Forget that, Alfred Henry Abel died aged 3 in Shoreditch 1873   :(
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: avm228 on Monday 09 June 08 11:06 BST (UK)
1891
RG12/156 109 12
Emily H, dau, 1 mo, b. Islington


She was registered as Emily Harriet SICTORNOSS, Jun 1891 Islington 1b 290
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: stonechat on Monday 09 June 08 11:07 BST (UK)
There is also a will on the National Archives available for downloading


Online Document ADM 188/1099
Name Sictorness Henry William SS5502 Islington, London . Name Sictorness Henry William SS5502 Islington, London Date: 1896.
Source: DocumentsOnline (images of documents from The National Archives)
Bob
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Tati on Monday 09 June 08 11:12 BST (UK)
How would a Brit pronounce the name Sigtenhorst?  :P


There's a Sigtenhorst family in 1871:
RG10/442/18 29
Shoreditch, London
3 Edwards Street

Andrew Sigtenhorst, head, 23, Knife? Machine Maker, b. Holland Amsterdam
Emily, wife, 21, b. Suffolk
Alfred, son, 1, b. Mddx Shoreditch

(Marriage Dec 1869 Andrew Sigtenhorst - Emily Honey Bell)
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: avm228 on Monday 09 June 08 11:19 BST (UK)
What a find, Tati!

Death: Andrew SIGTENHORST aged 27, Jun 1875 Hackney 1b 289

Anna
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: avm228 on Monday 09 June 08 11:22 BST (UK)
Possible sister for Alfred

Birth: Emily Maria SIGTENHORST Sep 1872 Islington 1b 264
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Tati on Monday 09 June 08 11:22 BST (UK)
Can you see his wife later or remarrying, Anna?

There seems to be a sister Emily Maria registered in 1872 Islington too. (Plus Fanny who dies as a baby)
(oops! sorry for echo!)

Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Tati on Monday 09 June 08 11:25 BST (UK)
Possible birth registration for Alfred?
Alfred Sigernos Dec 1869 Shoreditch 1c 114
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: avm228 on Monday 09 June 08 11:25 BST (UK)
Hmmm - yes, I see Fanny b & d after her father's death.

Nothing as yet for Emily remarrying or with surviving kids in 1881 ???
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: avm228 on Monday 09 June 08 11:37 BST (UK)
(Marriage Dec 1869 Andrew Sigtenhorst - Emily Honey Bell)

Trying to find out more about Emily - the most likely candidate as a youngster seems to be Emily Honeyball, daughter of Thomas & Maria Honeyball - family is in Clerkenwell in 1861, Emily a 13 yr old b Denston, Suffolk: RG9/193/30/10

Anna
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Tricia_2 on Monday 09 June 08 11:51 BST (UK)
I just found this, but I think that others have posted much of it. Anyway ~ just in case:

Births:

# Freda D Dear ~ Born March qtr 1925 ~ Mother's name: Van Den Sigtenhorst ~ Bromley Kent   

# Emily Maria Sigtenhorst ~ Born Sept Qtr 1872 ~ Islington ~ Volume 1b 
 
# Fanny Sigtenhorst ~ Born Sept Qtr 1875 ~ Holborn ~ Volume 1b
*
Deaths:

# Andrew Sigtenhorst born circa 1848 ~ died June qtr 1875 ~ Hackney.
# Fanny Sigtenhorst born circa 1876 ~ died March qtr 1876 ~ Holborn
# Johanna Frederica Van Den Sigtenhorst ~ born 17 Apr 1901 ~ died Jul 1988 age 87 ~ Bromley, Kent
*
Census 1871 ~ transcribed as Siglenhorst on 'Ancestry':

Andrew Siglenhorst 23 
Emily Siglenhorst 21
Alfred Siglenhorst 1 
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: Tricia_2 on Monday 09 June 08 11:55 BST (UK)
You could be related to Bernhard van den Sigtenhorst Meyer
http://www.answers.com/topic/bernhard-van-den-sigtenhorst-meyer?cat=entertainment
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: JustinL on Monday 09 June 08 12:03 BST (UK)
Thought this looked interesting.

http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Sictornes
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 09 June 08 12:14 BST (UK)
Having looked at the entry for Mapstone I don't have much confidence in their accuracy.  :)

Stan
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: robal5uk on Sunday 24 August 14 17:11 BST (UK)
Possibly comes from
 Andrew Sigtenhorst Vanden1849 – 1875



Emily Honeyball Sigtenhorst Vanden
Title: Re: Origin Of Surname
Post by: andrewalston on Tuesday 26 August 14 19:36 BST (UK)
The image for the 1890 marriage is on Ancestry:
St Clement, Bloomsbury, February 2nd 1890
Alfred Harry Sictorness, 19, Bachelor, Railway Porter, 24 Cornelia Street, Andrew Sictorness, Machinist
Harriett Longman, 18, Spinster, - , 24 Cornelia Street, Mark Ridgway Longman, Wire-weaver
By Banns.
Both signed.
Witnesses: Mark Ridgway Longman, Lucy Wing (both signed)

Added:
There are also 7 baptisms:
  Alfred Andrew 19 Feb 1893
  Adelaide Eliza 8 Jul 1894
  Mary Anne 25 Sep 1897
  Katharine 16 Nov 1899
  Joseph Albert 5 Jan 1902
  Charles Ernest 9 Apr 1905
In all these, the father is Alfred Andrew.