RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: steffi on Thursday 05 June 08 22:19 BST (UK)
-
I have details of Margaret Jones,26yrs; Frank Jones,30yrs, Frank Jones,6 yrs, Mary Jones(called Polly)5yrs, James R Jones,,3yrs and Florence Jones,11mths in the 1901 census. They were living at 31 King St Workington, Cumberland, Workington.A later child was called Elsie Marietta (Marie).
Margaret Jones aged 26 in 1901 died in 1949. I'm trying to find out about when she was proprietress of the Viaduct Hotel,Workington and The Wheatsheaf Hotel, Kirkland. Can anyone help?
It could be that her husband or one of her children were named as licensee -particularly in Kirkland where they may have been until about 1938/9.
-
Hi
Stephie steffi
You found it then! ;)
-
:Dhi, i am also looking into jones,s they also lived on king st, but i think they are a different family, to the one you are researching,,
as for the hotels the names may have changed, but viaduct and the cumberland are now two seperate hotels, the viaduct is actually opposite the viaduct on what is now called falcon st whilst the cumberland is on gladstone
street,
buuuuut the viaduct may have been called the cumberland viaduct at one time
or visa versa as there is but a 100 yards between them
thanks wodell
-
There is a Wheatsheaf on Kirkland in Kendal. Is this the one you mean? (Kirkland was always counted as separate from Kendal in censuses.) If so, I might even be able to go and ask about previous occupants, as it is about two hundred yards from where I live.
Jen
-
Thanks to everyone for their help
- Jen,it was the Wheatsheaf in Kendal.
It would be fantastic if you could go along and see what they know.
Thanks again,
Steffi
-
Will do, as soon as I have a minute to spare. Maybe there will be photos too.
I go to the Wheatsheaf on a Monday evening from October through until April, after playing for the local morris side's practice. In theory, we don't need to practice during the summer because we are too busy entertaining the public - Ha!
Jen
-
Hello Jen,
Thanks for your help - I've been trying to find out about this for ages and getting nowhere.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you again,
best wishes,
Steffi
-
I've checked viaduct hotel between 1906 and 1914 in workington with no results in historicaldirectories.org. Indeed there are no jones listed in workington as private citizens in 1914. The only viaduct hotel registering in cumberland and westmorland during this period (1906-1914) is the temperance hotel in Carlisle! It closed 2/3 years ago!
bob
-
Hello,
Thanks for checking the Viaduct Hotel in Workington between 1906 and 1914. They must both date from post 1914.
My info comes from two sources -the newspaper cutting about Margaret Jones's funeral which says:
'Formerly she was proprietess of the Viaduct Hotel, Workington, and the Wheatsheaf Hotel, Kirkland.'
Her grandson remembers living in Kirkland as a very young child -but was too young to remember details.
I myself remember Margaret Jones's daughter talking about the customers of one of the pubs/hotels.
I have the newspaper cutting but the relative who kept it at the time, cut out just the article itself -so I have neither newspaper name nor date.
I really would like to know when this family were at these hotels and details about these.
many thanks for your continuing help,
Steffi
-
Looking for someone completely different and with a rare surname, I tried ancestry and the first responses were "British Phone Books 1881-1984". I'm not a member of ancestry so I didn't get any further but it occured to me that a pub/hotel would probably have a phone and so I tried your Margaret Jones. After 200 hits and somewhere in america, i gave up but you have a more vested interest than me and might persevere to see if british phone books comes into the equation. (You can fast forward over the first 200 entries) ;>}
Good luck
bob
-
Good idea Bob :)
In 1939 it appeared as
Viaduct Temperance Hotel Tel: Workington 333
-
But is Margaret Jones listed?
bob
-
But is Margaret Jones listed?
No. Only 31 JONES listed in Cumberland, Westmorland and N Lancs, 2 in Workington ... neither was her.
-
thanks,
were Frank Jones or Elsie Marietta Jones listed?
Steffi
-
Nope. :(
-
Hi,
I know it's been ages since I said I'd try to find out about the Wheatsheaf but I finally managed to get to the Records Office this morning.
Not a lot to report, I'm afraid. It seems that the Wheatsheaf landlord between 1929 and 1938 was William Simpson. No mention of Margaret Jones.
I will keep looking as there might be something in the library local studies section, which I haven't tried yet.
Just wanted you to know that I haven't forgotten you.
Jen
-
Hello,
Thanks for your help.
It really is a mystery - I've checked again today and a close family member can remember the family being at the Wheatsheaf in the 1930s :
Elsie Marietta Jones being landlady at the Wheatsheaf ; her mother being Margaret Jones nee Richardson; her father being Frank Jones; Elsie Marietta's son, Frederick also living with them at the Wheatsheaf.
I wonder if they could have been employees rather than in charge? Or is there such a thing as assistant landlord/lady? -I don't know anything about how these things work!
Thanks ever so much for your help!
Steffi
-
I suppose it is possible that William Simpson, the licensee, had managers in to run the pub. Or, did Elsie Marietta live with him without being married?
I will check again because even if she wasn't named as landlady, there should be some evidence of her being there. Not sure if it is possible to get hold of old electoral registers which would give names of the entire household.
Failing that, I need to start accosting the older members of the Wheatsheaf clientele to see what they know!
Jen
-
Thanks ever so!
She wouldn't have been 'living with him' in the modern sense -the grandparents wouldn't have tolerated it!
The family lived together -grandparents Frank and Margaret, Elsie-Marietta (called Marie by family) and Frederick -who thinks he may have been about 4,5 or 6 years old when the family moved away to Workington(sorry for the lack of certainty -he was a rather little boy! -It's possible they lived with William Simpson - I suppose someone of 4 /5/6 years old 70 years ago wouldn't necessarily know.
Steffi
-
Hi Steffi, My great grandfather was 'Boots' at the Viaduct Temperance Hotel, Workington for many years until he emigrated to Australia somewhere between his son's wedding in 1907 at the hotel and 1910. I attach a photo of him outside the hotel, and a photo of the hotel today. I don't know if this helps your quest any...
Ado
-
Thanks, it's good to have photos of the pub to see what it looks like.
I now know that the family lived in Whitehaven at the time of the 1911 census so the pubs must have come after this time.
According to the census the family consisted of:
Frank b1872 age 39 (actually he was born in 1870 -I have his birth cert to prove it!)
Margaret 1875 age 36
Frank E b1894 age 17 (actually Frank Edward)
Mary 1896 age 15 (called Polly by family/friends)
James R 1898 age 13 (died in first world war but I can't find a record of this)
Florence May b1900 age 11 (called Florrie by family/friends)
William 1902 age 9 (called Bill by family/ friends -later worked as an engine driver with the nick name 'Workington Bill')
Frederick b1905 age 6 (called Fred by family /friends)
Elsie Marietta 1908 age 3 (called Elsie or Marie by family/friends) actually born 1907)
I'm still looking for corroborative evidence of Elsie Marietta running the two pubs -family members remember this happening but were too young at the time to remember details now!
We do know that a lot of people from the theatre stayed at the hotel in Workington - I remember Elsie Marietta telling me this when I was young.
:)