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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: liverpool annie on Monday 02 June 08 20:38 BST (UK)

Title: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: liverpool annie on Monday 02 June 08 20:38 BST (UK)


Casaguidi kindly found this picture of Carlos Acurcio/Acardio's headstone

Shorncliffe Military Cemetery, Kent
- Corlos Acurcio (20.02.18)

http://www.btinternet.com/~james.fanning/jenner1/page2.html

But it's really hard to see any detail and I wondered if there was anybody lived close by who could tell us what it says !!

Thanking you in advance

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: BettyofKent on Monday 02 June 08 20:45 BST (UK)
Annie, you could try posting on the Photo Restoration board, after seeing what they did with this  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,305937.0.html
I'm sure they could help. It's worth a try to see what they say.

Betty
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Tuesday 03 June 08 14:17 BST (UK)
Hi Annie
I live down the road and can pop in and have a look for you. Give us a couple of days for the ground to dry out as last time I went I got stuck in the mud. I will keep you posted.
Regards panda.
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 03 June 08 15:24 BST (UK)


Thank you so much Panda ! that's terrific !  :D

whenever's convenient !

Thanks for the suggestion Betty !!  :)

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: grandarog on Thursday 05 June 08 22:02 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,
                Pending the lady visiting the Grave stone ,I have had a quick jigger about with the image and it definitely looks to be                                                                                         ACURCIO,
                                         Good Luck, Rog
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: liverpool annie on Friday 06 June 08 04:44 BST (UK)


Thanks Rog ! We got that bit ... it was the rest of it we couldn't see !!  :D :D :D

I appreciate your help though !!

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Friday 06 June 08 20:25 BST (UK)
Hi Annie
Just to let you know my meeting on Tuesday has been cancelled so I have a free day. Yippee ::) ::)
So off to look at grave stones and bury myself in the local library reference section. What bliss beats work any day!!!
I will get back to you with the info ASAP.
Regards Panda
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: liverpool annie on Friday 06 June 08 20:30 BST (UK)



Well you just enjoy your day !!  :D :D :D

It's really nice of you to look for me Panda !!

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Tuesday 10 June 08 13:36 BST (UK)
Hi Annie

I've taken some photos as well which I will PM you when I get chance to put them on the computer and play around with them. The inscription is as follows

1917- 1918
CAPRI
CARLOS ACURCIO
179-5TH COMP/2ND GRART GUARNICAO
MORTO PELA PATRIA
20-201918

Glad to be able to help. Hope you have some help translating the inscription.
Regards panda
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 10 June 08 19:06 BST (UK)


Panda !

Thank you so very much ....... that's wonderful !!  :D

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: grandarog on Tuesday 10 June 08 23:36 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,
           Morto pela Patrio  =  Died for his country .

Havent a clue about Grart Guanicao  assume it is a regimental or battalion title such as Grand Guards or similar.
                                         Hope you can get an accurate translation then you can research in his home land.
                    Regards Rog.
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Wednesday 11 June 08 07:46 BST (UK)
Hi Annie
I used the translation page on google and guarnicao is garrison, its not recognising grart at all!!!! :-[ :-[
Will try later.
regards panda
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: grandarog on Wednesday 11 June 08 13:54 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,
            Great that you have had a transcription from Panda. I don't wish to be a wet blanket but having looked carefully at my manipulated image of the gravestone I dispute a couple of points.

 A... The curved word at top appears to be CAPI not CAPRI. I think it should probably have fullstops  and read as  C.A.P.I.

 B...The word Grart  Appears to have aspace between the first r and the a and possibly a fullstop.

     Now knowing that the next word translates as Garrison things become clearer .  Gr.art  is probably the standard abbreviatin for a soldier associated with a heavy gun unit . I surmise in English would read as Gunner Artillary Garrison.

            Why not contact the Portugese Embassy they will probably be able to tell you all about the Grave and maybe the soldier .I think they must  have an equivalent of our CWGC as I have seen the same type of stone in French War Cemeteries.
                                                        Again, Good Luck ,Rog
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: casalguidi on Wednesday 11 June 08 16:25 BST (UK)
Panda, did you note (from the board posted outside the cemetery) who to contact with regards to queries? 

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Wednesday 11 June 08 16:40 BST (UK)
Hi everyone
Here are the photos I took so you can all have a look close up. As to who to contact some time ago I did another lookup at shorncliffe without any luck and I posted the contact details on that post, i9f some kind person could link the posts together then Annie can make contact. As far as I remember the people were very helpful when the lady concerned telephoned them.
Regards Panda
Ps I will upload the file in a minute as it keeps giving me an error message.
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 11 June 08 19:00 BST (UK)


Lovely Panda !!!!

Thank you very much - they're great !!

Annie  :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: casalguidi on Wednesday 11 June 08 19:21 BST (UK)
Quote
The Cemetery manager
S02 G4 Estates
HQ Dover/ Shorncliffe Garrison.
Somerset House
Sir John Moore Barracks
Folkestone Kent
01303225038

Or Enquirers 01303225034

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,202338.0.html

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: liverpool annie on Sunday 15 June 08 03:52 BST (UK)


Thanks Casa !  :D

I did send an email ... but didn't get a reply ... so maybe I need to do snail mail  :-\

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: liverpool annie on Friday 27 June 08 16:11 BST (UK)


I did write a letter and sent it snail mail .... of course it's way too soon to expect a reply ....

but nothing yet !!  ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: davidga on Tuesday 05 August 08 20:21 BST (UK)
According to

http://ww1cemeteries.com/othercemeteries/shorncliffe_military.htm

the cemetery contains war graves of both World Wars - but are there earlier graves as well?

My g.g.grandfather Benjamin CEMERY died in Shorncliffe Camp in 1862, and I'm wondering whether he was buried in the cemetery there.  If nobody on RootsChat knows, I'll try contacting the Cemetery Manager...

David
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: pat29 on Saturday 09 August 08 10:30 BST (UK)
Hi im Patricia from Australia, can anyone help me locate my brothers grave in Schorncliffe military cemetry? the CCWG cant help me because my brother was a few days old when buried there and was  not buried there as a war grave. My father was in the army. would love to hear from someone.
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Saturday 16 August 08 08:36 BST (UK)
Hi Patricia
There is a section of childrens graves all together. If you let me have the names and dares I will go and have a look to see if there is a grave for your brother. Either P.M me of post the details on here. I've just got back of Hols so won't be able to do it for a few days but wil get round to it soon.
Regards Panda
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: pat29 on Saturday 16 August 08 09:28 BST (UK)
Lovely to hear  from someone. My father was army and buried his son only a few days old. It was december 1953 and he was christened Michael Preston.
So nice of you to look.
I was born Folkestone kent and now live in Australia.
Patricia
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: domino on Tuesday 19 August 08 19:17 BST (UK)
http://bbhilda.topcities.com/Folkestone/FolkestoneMilitary_Wartime.html

This is quite an interesting site :)

Iris :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Tuesday 26 August 08 16:10 BST (UK)
Hi Pat
Had a good look around the cemetery today but I couldn't locate your brother grave straight off. The graves are split into sections. If you manage to contact the superintendent and find out which section his grave is in I will gladly go back and have a nother look. The children's section had graves over 100 years old.

For Davids benefit there are some very old graves scattered around the edges. These appear to be in poor condition as only the soldiers graves are kept tidy and clean. some are difficult to read. If you find out which section I will gladly go and have a look for you.


Regards Panda
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: pat29 on Wednesday 27 August 08 10:13 BST (UK)
Hi Panda, Thankyou so much for looking for the grave :)
I will contact the superintendant but have already been told its not a war grave and seem to come to a brick wal everytime.
I really appreciate your help.
Regards Pat
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: davidga on Wednesday 27 August 08 14:20 BST (UK)
Hi Panda - many thanks!

I phoned the Cemetery Manager number today and spoke to a very helpful woman.  She phoned me back within minutes, giving me the plot number of my g.g.grandfather's grave.  She said "it's very overgrown" (he died in 1862). I'm hoping to visit the cemetery next week, so shall try to find the grave, nevertheless...

Yours, David

Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: BettyofKent on Wednesday 27 August 08 14:50 BST (UK)
Now that surprises me, that a grave is "very overgrown"  I was up at the cemetery three years ago for Primrose Day, & all the graves were very well kept.
I wonder if there's an older part that isn't looked after for some reason.
Sad, if that's so.

Betty

Hi Panda - many thanks!

I phoned the Cemetery Manager number today and spoke to a very helpful woman.  She phoned me back within minutes, giving me the plot number of my g.g.grandfather's grave.  She said "it's very overgrown" (he died in 1862). I'm hoping to visit the cemetery next week, so shall try to find the grave, nevertheless...

Yours, David


Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Wednesday 27 August 08 15:55 BST (UK)
Hi Betty
The military graves are kept in excellent condition they look brand new gleaming white stone even though they are nearly 100 years old but towards the sides of the cemetery are older private graves of everyday folk who were connected with the barracks one presumes. These areas aren't maintained on a regular basis and resemble churchyards you find all over the country these days. My daughter and I were having to scrape off moss and grass to read some of the inscriptions. There are plots with no headstones and some that have fallen down.
It just how different cemeteries are maintained, I have just received a bill for the maintenance of my parents crematorium rose for the next 15 years. Who will maintain it after I am gone?? ???
Regards panda
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: BettyofKent on Wednesday 27 August 08 20:07 BST (UK)
Thanks Panda, I didn't know about these other graves, I didn't get a chance to look around when I was up there.
Very sad they are not being maintained, but as you say, that's all too common these days.

Betty
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: kentfallen on Thursday 04 September 08 14:21 BST (UK)
I live very close to the cemetery. If anyone needs a photo etc... then please get in contact with me via my website here - http://www.kentfallen.com

All the very best
Neil
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: davidga on Saturday 06 September 08 18:34 BST (UK)
I visited the cemetery on Wednesday, but was unable to find any gravestone for my g.g.grandfather, who was buried there in 1862.

I'd been told that his grave was in plot F178, so I scrambled all over area "F" (the wild-looking area in the foreground of the attached picture). I couldn't find any memorials there prior to about 1880, but there are many large gaps.

Perhaps his gravestone fell many years ago, and was removed, or perhaps his family could only afford a simple wooden memorial...?

David
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: pat29 on Sunday 07 September 08 11:43 BST (UK)
David, I am amazed that you have a plot no. and area no. for your g.g.grandfather.
My brother was buried their in 1953 and i have enquired everywhere and cant even get answer as to where he is.
My father was Army and definately buried him there. Must be because it was not a war grave.
Patricia
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: davidga on Sunday 07 September 08 12:15 BST (UK)
Patricia - my ancestor's grave wasn't a war grave either - he was a Chelsea Pensioner, having served in the Scots Fusilier Guards, and was Camp Librarian when he died in 1862.  I did notice another Librarian's grave (that of a woman, from a later date) in the main part of the cemetery.

I, too, was surprised that the plot number was known. Perhaps the records are very patchy?

David
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: pat29 on Sunday 07 September 08 12:27 BST (UK)
David, Thankyou for your reply. I was born in Folkestone and hope to come back to England for a holiday.
I cant wait to see Schorncliffe mlitary cemetery.
This is a very interesting site.
Panda kindly offered one day to look there for me.
Patricia
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: Manitoulingirl on Monday 19 July 10 23:44 BST (UK)
I am the grandniece of a private of the Canadian Expeditionary Forces who died on the Salisbury Plains on April 2, 1916. He was 24 years old at the time and died of pneumonia from the poor living conditions at the time of his training.
His name was Valentine Christopher Wilman and he is buried in Shorncliffe Cemetery in plot 0.334 (this could be a graves registration or reference number, I'm not sure).
I am unable to acquire his death certificate through online research and do not know the proper channels to get it through the Canadian Veterans Records. I think that if I can get a picture of his headstone/gravestone, that may be a suitable substitute.
I have managed to get a copy of the page that he is recorded on from the Book of Remembrance that is kept in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada (our country's capital) and I have a regimental picture of him with his date of death and battalion number. He was in the 37th Battalion of the Canadian Infantry, Canadian Expeditionary Forces.
Could anyone offer some assistance in my quest? Please reply a.s.ap.
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: casalguidi on Monday 19 July 10 23:54 BST (UK)
The death registration of Valentine WILMAN age 23 was registered in the Elham Registration District in the June quarter of 1916 ref. 2a 1377 see http://freebmd.rootsweb.com - this would be the district for Shorncliffe (Folkestone/Cherition in Kent) but nowhere near Salisbury

http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=40120&mode=1   

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/REMEMBERS/sub.cfm?source=memorials/ukmem/shorncliffe

You can order his death certificate online http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

http://www.cwgc.org/ gives the grave reference number as O 334

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Tuesday 20 July 10 07:42 BST (UK)
I'm on holiday for a couple of weeks but can go and have a look for you in August if you don't mind waiting till then.
Regards panda
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: Manitoulingirl on Saturday 31 July 10 03:18 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for the information. I will check those sites out. My mother was able to get copies of information in his file with the Canadian Veterans Association, but I am not sure what is in it. I was hoping to get a copy of his actual death certificate, so will check out ordering on through that website.

Thank you again for taking the time to reply.

Linda Wallace-Ray
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: Manitoulingirl on Saturday 31 July 10 03:27 BST (UK)
If you would be able to acquire a picture of his gravestone/marker, I would really appreciate it. I am not in a hurry as this has been a project I have been doing for quite a while. Any help you are able to give me, would help me further my documentation.

It is very good of you to assist strangers on RootsChat with their searches. It helps those of us who do not live in Britain to get information that we would not otherwise be able to find, especially descendants on this side of the "pond". Thank you so much for any assistance you can give me.

Linda Wallace-Ray
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: Manitoulingirl on Saturday 31 July 10 03:31 BST (UK)
I'm sorry. I am new to RootsChat (and chat sites in general) so didn't realize that I was not replying to a particular post. To correct my last two posts, the first message was for casalguidi and the second is for panda40.

Thank you both again.
 LWR
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: casalguidi on Saturday 31 July 10 07:33 BST (UK)
Quote
didn't realize that I was not replying to a particular post

No problem ............. it's all on topic so doesn't matter at all :)

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: Manitoulingirl on Friday 15 October 10 19:41 BST (UK)
To Panda40: Were you able to get to Shorncliffe Cemetary at all? I would still appreciate a photo of my great uncle, Valentine Christopher Wilman's gravestone (if there is a stone) or marker. I would love to be able to send a copy to my mother who is our family historian. She was able to obtain a picture of him in his uniform that gave his date of death, age, rank, and battalion number on it which I was able to copy. It would be great to return the favour with the aforementioned photo.

Thank you again for the information about his death registry.

Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Friday 15 October 10 20:07 BST (UK)
Not yet as lots of things croped up over the summer but will try and grt there soon thanks for reminding me. I need a nudge now and then ;D ;D ;D
panda
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: S_Meakin on Wednesday 27 April 11 11:34 BST (UK)
Hello all, I've just come across this forum as I recently found out that my older brother (who died when he was nine months in 1974) may be buried in Shorncliffe Military Cemetery (similar story to pat29) I'm also living in Australia - I have the phone number of the MOD but was wondering if anyone else could provide me with any guidance before making a call?
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: davidga on Wednesday 27 April 11 18:10 BST (UK)
I called the Cemetery Manager on the number given in Casalguidi's Reply #16, and spoke to a very helpful person...

David
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: Manitoulingirl on Sunday 24 July 11 16:56 BST (UK)
To Panda40: Were you able to get to Shorncliffe Cemetary at all? I would still appreciate a photo of my great uncle, Valentine Christopher Wilman's gravestone (if there is a stone) or marker. I would love to be able to send a copy to my mother who is our family historian. She was able to obtain a picture of him in his uniform that gave his date of death, age, rank, and battalion number on it which I was able to copy. It would be great to return the favour with the aforementioned photo.

Thank you again for the information about his death registry.


Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: casalguidi on Sunday 24 July 11 18:20 BST (UK)
Does anybody have or know of a map of the sections/plots for this cemetery?

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: panda40 on Sunday 24 July 11 21:29 BST (UK)
Sorry
I'm on holiday at the moment but will try and get there when I get back.  Apologies for not doing it sooner but had a busy year one way and another and still playing cath up ::)
Regards panda
Title: Re: Shorncliffe Military Cemetery Kent
Post by: Peter Anderson on Sunday 16 April 17 11:59 BST (UK)
Hopefully everyone got the photos of the various graves. If not please get in touch and I will give it a try. Peter