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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex => England => Essex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: geost on Sunday 01 June 08 14:12 BST (UK)
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Can someone help me with West Ham Parish lookups?
John HONEY & Caroline Mcleod married 1827 Old Charlton, Kent. John Honey was a Shoemaker, lived Stratford, High St. 1839 Pigot's (memory)
John & Caroline had several children -
Thomas, b ca 1835
Harriet, b ca 1836
Jane Hannah, b ca 1837, d 1839 Stratford (GROS CERT)
Eliza (Adeline?) b ca 1840
Many thanks in advance
Kim
Switzerland
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Hello Kim
Welcome to rootschat
I can see the 1827 IGI marriage (submitted by LDS member...no details)
Where is this family in 1841? or any other census
Bryant
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Hi Bryant,
thanks for taking pity on me! :)
1841 they were in South Australia - not going to make this easy for you....
By a stroke of luck I have found them Stratford in 1839 through the death of a daughter. They lived in Woolwich and married in Charlton which is not far away.
Cheers
Kim
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Kim
Did he travel voluntarily.......
Here is John nabbing a dastardly thief :o
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18390408-name-1487&div=t18390408-1424#highlight
and is this the same John?
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18370612-name-1180&div=t18370612-1591#highlight
Woolwich & Charlton adjoin one another and Stratford (as the crow flies) is probably less than 5 miles away although you would have to be a very good swimmer to get there.............although most people would have probably used or went by a small boat ;) in the 1830's
Bryant
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Hi Bryant,
No he went voluntarily. Along with friends, acquaintances etc. South Australia had a huge program for free settlers at that time.
Parents died 1837, buried St. Mary Magdalene Woolwich. Bros died. (One in the Thames in a boating accident.) Father had the Waterman's Arms at Bell Watergate. As you will know nothing left of this -
it is my understanding that there was a ferry boat that went across the Thames there to North Woolwich?? And for years I thought that was where they were. Finding the PR's for that area was a massive hunt and it seems that most sources agree that St. M M in Woolwich was responsible - so guess churchgoers also didn't swim... and I also realised I had to widen my hunt ... as they are not in the St. MM registers...
Anyway found them now in Stratford. 1839 Pigot's seals the evidence - Shoemaker in High St.
Thanks for your support
kim
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That ferry is still there.........used it quite a few times but not for many years
E.O.L.F.H.S (east of london) might be able to assist with this one?
Bryant
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Dear Bryant,
Thanks for the links. Very clever of you to find that. I think the first one seems most certainly to be him. Not sure abt second one, it's earlier and I have no indication or evidence that he worked for a Chas Wormley - but maybe sth will turn up.
Thanks for your support.
Kim
Kim
Did he travel voluntarily.......
Here is John nabbing a dastardly thief :o
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18390408-name-1487&div=t18390408-1424#highlight
and is this the same John?
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18370612-name-1180&div=t18370612-1591#highlight
Woolwich & Charlton adjoin one another and Stratford (as the crow flies) is probably less than 5 miles away although you would have to be a very good swimmer to get there.............although most people would have probably used or went by a small boat ;) in the 1830's
Bryant
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Thnaks Bryant,
From their website, they don't have books and no one for lookups. I have ordered the relevant fiche from Essex record office for West Ham and am praying they will be there - Stratford is not allowed to be copied?
Many thanks for all your suggestions and help.
kind regards
Kim
That ferry is still there.........used it quite a few times but not for many years
E.O.L.F.H.S (east of london) might be able to assist with this one?
Bryant
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Kim
When anyone from England lands up in OZ in the period of time that we are looking at.......the Old Bailey records is where you start.
John appears to me to be an east London lad! I don't know why but he does!
The EOLFHS site......if you go to the surnames section you will find someone researching the name of HONEY for the Mile End area.......an email address (via eolfhs) is to be found there....you never know
I must admit to not knowing (or anything about) the Watermans Arms Bell Watergate ......... but their is a Watermans Arms in the right area even now!.........look to the top right of the map by Newcastle Drawdock
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/gettingaround/Cutty-Sark-DLR.pdf
albeit the wrong side of the river.......
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Looking at Victorian Pubs/Inns the Watermans Arms appears to be in the High Street Woolwich which is a spit (would have been less than 50 yards) away from the River Thames...and may well have been classified as Bell Water Gate?.........the term water gate meaning exactly that......a gate to stop the water and it appears that the Bell Water Gate was named after the pub that was there........The Bell
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/pubs.html#W
The Bell, Bell Water Gate, Woolwich Arsenal, Woolwich is also mentioned
http://www.yellins.com/woolwichferry/bwg.html
http://www.yellins.co.uk/woolwichferry/bwg2.html
Bryant
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Kim
I'm curious.....the Watermans Arms, where did you get the info that it was in Woolwich? as seeing that John is in Stratford and just down the Road is the Isle of Dogs with a Watermans Arms which is still there today and Grade two listed (how old is it?) and I don't see the Watermans Arms in Woolwich in 1841.......I just wondered if possibly :-\
Bryant
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Hi Bryant,
you are very kind!
John HONEY snr is listed at the Waterman's Arms, Bell Watergate/ High St., Woolwich several times in the Greenwich archives. In various directories but definitely in Pigots 1832-34 - I think later but disappears abt 1839. They both died in Jan 1837 -
The building is definitely not standing at Bell Watergate although on the corner there is a pub. The Leisure centre and car park are there.
John HONEY snr is invariably listed as living at High St., Woolwich. Son Richard died at Bell Watergate, so I thought it might be possible that the two buildings connected.... Just looked at an old map I have a photo of and although it's later the pub on the corner is the Crown & Cushion and there is The Bell PH at the other end of the street very close to the water .... I will need to see if I can find another map which is earlier ....
I had found that Waterman's Arm's North Woolwich / Isle of Dogs but not sure .... However John HONEY jnr had a pub wherever he went. In Adelaide, Daylesford Victoria, and then in New Zealand where they eventually lived....
i think I saw a pic of the Waterman's Arms Isle of Dogs - it looked v charming and I don't think it's the one- darn!
It is one of my last branches and one of my most interesting - after some 30 years of genie research - he is still keeping me on my toes... :)
i have seen the surname listing - thanks - will get on to it ....
Keep in mind that not everyone was tried at the Old Bailey - although it's a fabulous site. I'd be more worried abt ancestors who arrived in NSW or TAS.... then I'd start looking ;D for sth interesting.... Found a ?X great grandmother who was Welsh being tried in ? I think it was Lincolnshire for attacking a man ?? He was 6'2 and she was 4'10 - Family history says she was a nice and gentle granny; a god fearing old lady - great shock to many :)
cheers
Kim
Kim
I'm curious.....the Watermans Arms, where did you get the info that it was in Woolwich? as seeing that John is in Stratford and just down the Road is the Isle of Dogs with a Watermans Arms which is still there today and Grade two listed (how old is it?) and I don't see the Watermans Arms in Woolwich in 1841.......I just wondered if possibly :-\
Bryant
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Excuse me butting in but I wonder if the fact that the Woolwich Ferry operates from Woolwich (on the south side of the Thames) to North Woolwich (on the north side of the Thames) has potential for people to have been misled - either at census times, compilation of directories or latterly*.
You are right about the Waterman's Arms in Isle of Dogs - it is a treasure. Maybe it is the one that Kim wants :D
*One website puts it in Greenwich
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Kim
Here is a website which is loosely relevant to the lookup.....but I thought you might like it to drop back in time and read articles and see pictures of the day
http://www.londonancestor.com/
Bryant
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Dear Clincher,
You are quite right - not easy to find everything around that area. However there seems to have been a Waterman's Arms at Bell, Watergate. I think there were many Waterman's Arms near water.... Popular name?
I need to go over my notes as it is a while since I did this research but fairly sure I am in the right place.
Bryant thanks for the link. very interesting.
Cheers
Kim
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Hi Kim
I'm a descendant of John & Caroline Honey. Would love to make contact.
Cheers
Fiona
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Hi Fiona,
Great to hear from you! Have sent my email to your messages in your account.
Cheers
Kim