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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Scott Thompson on Friday 30 May 08 20:28 BST (UK)
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Thomas James Atkinson was baptized at All Saints Poplar on Nov 5th 1817. His father is listed as Thomas Atkinson, a Shipwright and his mother was named Anna. By 1841 Thomas James had left the nest. I know this is a long shot but is there any way of finding this couple in 1841 or possibly 1851?
Any help would be great.
Thanks
Scott
:)
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Hello, Scott,
The only thing I have managed to find is an entry for Ann Atkinson, 1841 & '51 in Wapping Workhouse.
HO107/715 bk 6 folio 3 page 2
Wapping District Workhouse Wapping
Ann Atkinson age 45 ..?.. Mangler born in county Y
HO107/1550 folio 124 page 2
Wapping Distict Workouse Wapping
Ann Atkinson pauper age 55 Washing born Mile End, Middsx
There is a death that might fit.
Death
Thomas Isaac Atkinson
Mar ¼ 1840 Poplar 2 246
How sad, 10 years in a workhouse
Meliora
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Thank you very much for that. It would seem strange that although her husband and son were shipwrights she should be so destitute after her husbands death. I have heard the name of Thomas Isaac Atkinson before so that helps. I guess I will need to get the death certs next.
What is a mangler (sounds like a sci-fi creature)?
Scott
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Hello, Scott,
How will we ever know just the ins & outs of the cirumstances why our ancestors ended up in the workhouse. ? She obviously worked towards her keep as her occupation is shown as "washing" in the 1851 census, the 1841 census occupation had a word before mangler that I could not decipher. A mangle was a large contraption two big wooden rollers mounted on axis on a frame with a large handle for turning the rollers. Wet washing was fed tho' these rollers to squezze out excess water prior to hanging up to dry. Believe me those mangles were hard, back breaking work. I remember these still being used when I was a small child in the 1930s, they were superceded by lighter rubber roller ones called a wringer. That was my job, winding away after my Mum hauled the wet wash out of the copper where it had been boiled, then scrubbed down on a washboard before being rinsed. Woe betide if you got your fingers in the way. Happy days. :D
Have a look at this, you will see what I mean.
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-1193679-victorian-mangle.html
Meliora
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Hello Scott
A man of the seventies?
Meliora..........the games up! I remember the rubber ones ;D
Thomas James Atkinson..........do you know the witnesses at his marriage? he could have been 20 years younger than a sibling or twenty years older?
whom did he marry and when?
I gather you know of no other siblings?
their are a couple christianed at St Paul, Deptford
John in 1807
William in 1809
both with parents Thomas & Hannah
However......the surname is not unusual and neither are the known christian names!
Bryant
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Dear Meliora
I had a look at that link. The thing truly looks like a sadistic instrument of torture. I doubt I will ever complain about the washing again!
I have set up the topic Atkinsons of Poplar on the London Board which goes into greater detail.
Thomas James Atkinson married Sarah Wren (of the Wolisingham Wrens and distantly related to Sir Christopher) on December 17th 1840. The witnesses were Benjamin Wren and Thomas Appleby. Sadly I know very little about his family and nothing of any other siblings. Once Thomas James left for the north and Thomas Senior had died I would have thought that some other sibling or family member would have helped out Anna, so it may be that Thomas was an only child.
Scott
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Scott
Is that Wolsingham as in Weardale, Durham?
Iv'e just had a look on freebmd............they married in Stockton R.D.......border of Co Durham & North Riding of Yorkshire and I was thinking they married in Middx for some reason!
Benjamin Wren aged 20 is living at home with his parents in the 1841 census........in Stockton
AND SO ARE ALL THE ATKINSONS ;D INCLUDING YOURS OR SO IT SEEMS........HOWEVER IT MEANS THAT WHEN THOMAS MARRIED SARAH THEY ARE MINORS AND HE HAS NO CONNECTION TO LONDON!.......WHAT DID THE MARRIAGE CERT SAY?
1841
14 SQUARE SOUTH SIDE, STOCKTON
HANNAH ATKINSON 63 WASHERWOMAN NO
JAMES " 17 CARPENTER AP YES
JOHN " 20 " YES
\
ANN CLEMENT 67 MIDWIFE YES
\\
15 SQUARE SOUTH SIDE, STOCKTON
JOHN ATKINSON 65 SAIL CLOTH WEAVER YES
SARAH " 51 YES
MARY " 27 F.S YES
CHRISTOPHER " 21 SAIL CLOTH WEAVER YES
THOMAS " 18 TAILOR AP YES
SARAH " 15 YES
JOSEPH " 9 MONTHS YES
---------------
*1841 rule applies ie 15-19=15
THOMAS ATKINSON married HANNAH FORTON (born West Rounton, Yorkshire) at ST THOMAS CHURCH, STOCKTON on the 27th Nov 1804
Now...........you have to prove what you see is correct!
My interpretation is that Thomas aged 18 is married to Sarah aged 15 (15-19=15) and Joseph the 9 month old child is theirs?
How did you arrive at.........
Thomas James Atkinson was baptized at All Saints Poplar on Nov 5th 1817. His father is listed as Thomas Atkinson, a Shipwright and his mother was named Anna. By 1841 Thomas James had left the nest. I know this is a long shot but is there any way of finding this couple in 1841 or possibly 1851?
Any help would be great.
Thanks
Scott
:)
Bryant
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Thank you for that burst of enthusiasm!
And to be honest the Atkinsons have been a thorny issue.
What I know for sure is that George Henry Atkinson was my great great grandfather. He was born in Pembroke Dock, Wales in 1851. There was a rumour circulated in my family that Sir Christopher Wren was a distant relative.
One of the Rootchatters had done census searches for me and found that George Henry had parents called Thomas, born about 1817 in Poplar, London and was a shipwright. George's mother was Sarah and she was born about 1820 in Shelton, Yorks. I then obtained the marriage cert of Thomas and Sarah Atkinson (married in Stockton) from Teeside Valley Indexes and it states that his father was a shipwright named Thomas and her father was a miller named William Wren. I have also been in contact with Ian Hall who has done extensive work on the Wren Family and he verifies that a Sarah Wren married a Thomas Atkinson. Her father was indeed a miller named William.
Putting this all together I came to the conclusion that I must be on the right track, but there is this other family, as you have highlighted, that still lurks as a possibility. I find it hard to believe sometimes that a Londoner like Thomas moved around - from the East End of London to Hartlepool to Pembroke Docks and back to London. It would seem more likely that my Atkinsons came from Stockton, but who can be sure.
The next logical step is to get George Henry's birth cert to be certain.
Scott
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Hello, Scott,
This feels familiar but I cannot find having sent it you before, my apologies if I have.
1851 census
HO107/2476 folio 407 page 5
17, Lewis St. Pembroke Dock
Thomas Atkinson head age 34 Shipwright P D Yd. b Poplar
Sarah wife age 31 b Yorks Shelton
William Thomas son ag 9 b Stockton Durham
Edwin son age 6 b ditto
Mary dau age 3 b Pembroke Dock
Sarah dau age 1 b ditto
No George so he must have been born after the census.
Birth
George Henry Atkinson
Sept. ¼ 1851 Pembroke 26 759
With regard to moving around, he was a shipwright, perhaps a specialist in his trade which meant he may have moved around to wherever he was best employed. I couldn't understand why a rellie of mine moved around in the middle of the 1800s, the penny dropped when I found he was employed by the blossoming railways, the same with families of builders & gas fittters, they moved from central London to the suburbs being built.
Look at this site, Lewis St is mentioned
http://www.pembrokedock.org/h_houses.htm
and this one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southwest/sites/inpictures/pages/pembrokedock.shtml
It looks like P D yd in the census is Pembroke Dock Yard
Cheers
Meliora
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Scott
But the question is........was he/she minors on the marriage cert or did it mention they were of full age
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][/color] or did it quote their age?
if they were minors the family that is in Lewis Street, Pembroke Dock in 1851 is clearly not yours.........whereas if they were of full age they quite possibly are?
the trouble being once you get a train of thought it sometimes overides what is staring you in the face!
Question........quote
What I know for sure is that George Henry Atkinson was my great great grandfather. He was born in Pembroke Dock, Wales in 1851.
how do you know he had a middle name of Henry? did it state that in later census or was a child born and he had his full name on that birth cert?
If you don't know for definite that his middle name was Henry?............their was a George Stokel Atkinson born Dec qtr 1850 Stockton R.D and he is visiting as a 10 year old in 1861 (does that mean his parents are deceased?) he is at Dacre Street, Middlesboro in 1861.
Deaths..........
Sarah Atkinson........4 deaths between 1854-1860 Stockton R.D
Thomas Atkinson.....4 deaths between 1853-1858 Stockton R.D
I don't possess access to the 1851 census........so if you can obtain the 1851 details for George Stokel Atkinson born Stockton R.D at the end of 1850 it will be interesting to see who his parents are? Anybody please
I definitely think you need that birth cert if your sure its your gr gr grandfather.
Bryant
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Thank you both.
George Henry Atkinson was a larger than life character in my family who remained a topic of conversation years after his death in 1925 and because of his successful career in the shipbuilding trade he became the yardstick of success that all members of my fathers family (including myself) were measured by. My grandfather was his first grandchild and he adored his grandson. I have a heartwarming photo taken when my grandfather was about five in 1917 with his grandparents. I, in turn was his first grandson and the apple of his eye. He would often tell me of the great ships that George Henry Atkinson worked on. My grandfather's last remaining sibling has recently told me of stories told to her of life in Wales.
On the marriage cert of Thomas and Sarah Atkinson it states that they were of full age.
Scott
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There you go......................
Once you know the story you understand..........end of speculation 8)
The family I found in 1841 is clearly not yours ;)
The best option is to get the birth cert and go from there!
Bryant
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Can I just ask, was Ann Atkinson down as a widow in the 1841 and 1851 census?
Scott
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Hello, Scott,
Ann Atkinson
No 1841 census show marital status
1851
Ann is a widow
Meliora
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Meliora.
Thank you very much
Scott
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Hello again Meliora,
In the following quote does the Y in County Y stand for Yorkshire?
Hello, Scott,
The only thing I have managed to find is an entry for Ann Atkinson, 1841 & '51 in Wapping Workhouse.
HO107/715 bk 6 folio 3 page 2
Wapping District Workhouse Wapping
Ann Atkinson age 45 ..?.. Mangler born in county Y
HO107/1550 folio 124 page 2
Wapping Distict Workouse Wapping
Ann Atkinson pauper age 55 Washing born Mile End, Middsx
There is a death that might fit.
Death
Thomas Isaac Atkinson
Mar ¼ 1840 Poplar 2 246
How sad, 10 years in a workhouse
Meliora
If so is the Ann Atkinson in the 1851 census the same as the one in the 1841 census?
Thanks
Scott