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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Galway => Topic started by: johngirl on Friday 30 May 08 02:34 BST (UK)
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Mary Allen was born in Galway in 1845 but don`t know which county, and married Albert Isaac in 1869 in Toxteth park. Mary had a sister Margaret Allen. [census of 1881]I know this is not much information to go on but thought I would try.
Johngirl ;D ;D
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Hello Johngirl,
Galway's a county so you probably mean you don't know the townland or parish. If you know Mary's denomination that could assist in the search.
You'll have to rely on Church records as Mary was born prior to the introduction of Civil Registration in Ireland. This happened in 1864. The marriages of Non Catholic were registered from 1845 onwards.
When Griffiths Valuation took place in Galway in 1855 there were families with the surname Allen in the following Parishes ... Annaghdown, Ballymacward, Claregalway, Clonrush, Duniry, Inishcaltra, Kilconnell, Kilcummin, Killeenen, Killosolan, Kiltartan, Lickmolassy, Rahoon, St. Nicholas, Tuam
Christopher
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Thanks Christopher,
you seem to have a great knowledge of all things Irish.I have no idea where to start with Mary.Also I`m not much of a family history researcher so don`t know what I`m talking about most times. I also have no idea what denomination Mary was so can`t rely on church records. Mary married my g grandfather Albert Isaac in the St Michaels In the City Church in Liverpool which would be Church of England but I`m sure Mary would not be of the Church of England faith. Weren`t most Irish catholic or prodestant.I`m sorry but I`m not much into religion[May I be struck down].My cousin now has Marys death cert so will contact him to see if there is any information about Mary on that.[I won`t hold my breath]. Are there any other ways to try and find anything about Mary Allen.I know most records were burnt in a fire in 1922 and that civil registrations didn`t come into after 1864. I think I`m quite stuck. What about Marys marriage certificate,thats a thought?
Johngirl ;D ;D ;D
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If the marriage took place in a Church of England church in Liverpool it's possible (and it's still a big if) that Mary belonged to the Church of Ireland which is a Protestant denomination. Civil registration of Protestant marriages began in Ireland in 1864 (earlier than Catholic marriages which was 1864).
Before you can start to look for church records you need to know where in Ireland the family lived (parish if not actual townland).
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Thankyou aghadowey,
for your knowledge. The only thing that I know about Mary is that she came from Galway. This information was on the 1881 cenus for Toxteth Park.How could I find what denomination she was or which parish or townland she came from in Galway. I bet that is asking a bit to much. Would her death certificate or marriage certificate help with this at all. I`m thinking not.
Johngirl :) :) :)
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Hello Johngirl,
Did Mary and Albert have any children ???
Christopher
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Hi Christoper,
Yes Mary and Albert had six children.
George born 1870.
Herbert Henry [my grandfather] born 1874.
Rhoda Alberta.
Sarah Jane.
Ruth.
Hannah.
I do have all the years they were born but have got it put in files.Will get them if you need dates of birth.
All born in Liverpool area.
Johngirl :) :)
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Mary's death certificate will not list her parents, place of birth or religion. Hoever, her marriage certificate should list her father's name and occupation.
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Hi aghadowey and christopher,
I now have the name of Mary`s father from the marraige certificate. My cousin has just recieved a copy of it. Marys` father was named Henry and was a farmer. Thats about it I`m afraid. Albert , Marys` husbands occupation was a mariner and Mary had no occupation. In the census for 1881 Albert was a joiner. Strange to go from mariner to a joiner. Albert and Mary were married on the 14th October 1869. Mary was 22. This puts Mary according to her marriage cert as born in 1847.
Johngirl ;D
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Strange to go from mariner to a joiner.
Not really so unusual. My great-grandfather was a sea captain but when at home built furniture, boats and even a very, very large house. He came from a family of sea captains and boat-builders and learned to use all sorts of tools at a very early age.
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Yes aghadowey,
I suppose they took on anything just to earn a wage. Just like us today. My grandfather Herbert [Albert and Marys son]was a gardeners apprentice in 1891 then he became a sailor when he came to Tasmania in the early 1890`s.In the early 1900`s he became a lighthouse keeper.My father followed in his fathers footsteps and also became a lighthouse keeper. I lived in a lighthouse station for a while in my very younger days. Can`t remember none of it as I was only eighteen months old. Dad was drowned when I was this age and my mother then moved her family into the city.
Johngirl :) :)
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Hi,
I found three Henry Allen`s in the Griffiths valuations,not sure though if Henry would have owned any land. [If this is what the Griffiths valuation are about.] He was a farmer so maybe he did. But then again why if he was a farmer would two of his daughters go to England to live. You would think they would stay to help on the farm. Maybe Mary and her sister Margaret who lived with Mary in Toxteth Park had many brothers to do the work on the farm. I don`t know anything about the Griffiths valuations so could someone please tell me if I can find anything about my g grandmother Mary in them. I suppose thogh it is only about people who owned land etc. ??? ???Sorry to sound so vague.[dumb]. I haven`t been researching all that long. :) :)
Johngirl
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Did you see the actual page of Griffith's Valuation or an index? It is more than likely that Henry Allen was a tenant rather than the landowner and the original page would show who he leased his land from and other details like description of property, amount of land, annual rent.
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Hi Aghadowey,
I only seen an index of the Griffith`s Valuation. I`m not a very good researcher as yet [as you can see] ??? and had no idea you could see more information about the Henry Allen`s I found from the indexes. Silly me. Now for the question of how do I find the details from the original pages of the Valuations. Sorry to be a nuisance but if I don`t ask I will never know.Thankyou also for letting me know about this information.
Johngirl :) :)
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There is/was a website which showed scanned images of Griffith's but it hasn't been working lately- not sure wht the problem is:
www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php
Should also mention that there may not be 3 Henry Allens although you found 3 entries in Griffith's- it could be that 1 Henry Allen had several small (or large) bits of property.
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Thankyou aghadowey,
I have checked that website [thats were I found the indexes] but it is still not working for the moment. Will try again later. Thankyou for letting me know about the 3 Henry Allens. They probably are all the same person. Listed below is what I found so could you tell me how far away from each other are each townland. If you can understand my meaning sorry.
Henry Allen
Cloonboo
Annaghdown
Galway.
Henry Allen
Cloonoolia North
Clonrush
Galway.
Henry Allen
Mountshannon
Irishcaltra
Galway.
I`m only asuming that you live in Ireland and may know the wereabouts of these places. Sorry if you don`t and don`t know that is OK.
Johngirl :) :)
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I live in Ireland but nowhere near Galway unfortunately. Someone that knows Galway better might know where the three places are located.
If you go to www.thecore.com/seanruad at look for each townland it will not only give you the civil parish (all different here) but also the Poor Law Union and Barony and that might indicate if they are in the same area.
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Cloonboo is about 12km north of Galway on the Headford Road.
About 90km away are Mountshannon and Clonrush on the Galway/Clare border and on the shores of Lough Derg, a few miles apart. You will find Mountshannon and Cloonboo on Google maps at http://maps.google.com.
If you want to precisely locate the townlands suggest you use the 6" OS maps on the Galway County Council web site - http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/Library/1842OSMaps/#place. You will probably need to download the SVG plugin and can only view the maps in IE.
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Thankyou aghadowey and leckavrea, :)
I now know where all these townlands and parishes are thanks to you two.
leckavrea -that Galway Library site was absolutely fantastic. I had to download the SVG plugin but had no trouble.
Thanks again Johngirl ;D ;D
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John Hayes had some problems with his failteromhat.com site but most of it is back online.
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Thankyou Christopher,
I will go and check it out again .
Johngirl :) :)