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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Lumber-Jack on Thursday 29 May 08 04:43 BST (UK)
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I collect antique curved glass frames of Victorian vintage and often they contain a charcoal drawing of a person's relative done in the days when artists visited people in Canada to create these likenesses as photography was a luxury especially for the poor. Two such charcoals of a very old man (likely a farmer) and his wife were given to me in Deep River, Ontario, Canada ten years ago minus the frames but because the vendor had noted that the back of the wife's charcoal had the following script:
"Janet Patton- Howard's great grandmother, lost a little boy with scarlet fever crossing the Atlantic to Canada-carried him dead in her arms for two weeks so that he could be buried on dry land. This same Janet was heir to Patton thread fortune in England but refused to cross the ocean again to claim it. Another relative in Canada ( a lawyer) made the return voyage and claimed his share"
There is also a short "tree" which transcribes as:
Howard Mac - John Beaton + Amelia Thurlow - Janet Patton+John Beaton // Janet Beaton daughter ( sister of grandpa John Beaton) - Elizabeth Janet Beaton ( Nanny)- Janet Moffat
Presumably John Beaton is the name of the old man on the other charcoal. The group of women listed after the double strike are called "Janet's Ring". Janet in the charcoal looks to be in her late 70's. The charcoal was probably done before 1900 and she is cited as being a great grandmother. So her birth could well be late in the first quarter of the 1800's.
The story of the mother and child have haunted me for a long time and I have resolved to try and tell some of their genealogical story if not reunite this history with any modern ancestors who might cherish their memory.
I have so far been very unsuccessful in even identifying the correct lines of Patton ( presumably in England) and Beaton ( in Canada) to trace and would welcome any leads from RootsChatters.
I will try to post some photos when I figure out how to make digital copies and upload them! The charcoals a very big.
Thanks very much, Lumber-Jack
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Hi
According to the IGI - and this is a submitted entry by the way, so pass the salt with this one......
John BEATON married Amelia THURLOW 26 Dec 1883 N. Lavant, Lanark, Ontario Canada
Karenlee
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Once again from the IGI
Children for John BEATON and Amelia THURLOW :-
Annie May BEATON born 17 August 1886 Darling Lanark Ontario ( Extracted Birth Record so pretty sure it's right )
Janet Elizabeth BEATON born 12 Sept 1888 Alamonte Lanark Ontario ( No real source listed for this one )
John T BEATON born 3 April 1891 Alamonte Lanark Ontario ( Submitted Entry )
Minnie BEATON born 5 March 1893 Alamonte Ramsey Lanark Ontario ( Submitted Entry )
Cheers
Karenlee
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Just bookmarking this, as it looks like it might develop into a good 'un ;)
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Just checked the 1881 for Canada and found the following :-
1881 Census Canada Ontario Lanark Darling
C-13233/Dist 112/F/Page 15
BEATON
John Head Marr 71 Farmer Ethnic/Origin Scottish born Cape of Good Hope Africa Religion Church of Scotland
Janet Wife Marr 69 Ethnic/Origin Scottish born Scotland Religion Church of Scotland
Thomas Son Unmarr 27 Farmer Ethnic/Origin Scottish born Ontario Religion Church of Scotland
Ellen Dau Unmarr 23 Etnic/Origin Scottish born Ontario Religion Church of Scotland
John Son Unmarr 19 School Teacher Ethnic/Origin Scottish born Ontario Religion Church of Scotland
Janet Dau Unmarr 16 School Teacher Ethnic/Origin Scottish born Ontario Religion Church of Scotland
Hope this is helping
Karenlee
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Went back to the IGI and found a marriage
Janet PATON married John BEATON 15 July 1839 Gorbals Lanarkshire Scotland
This is an Extracted Marriage so is pretty right.
Just as it's getting interesting I gotta go pick the kids up from school --------------- typical
Have fun guys
Cheers
Karenlee
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Thanks a lot Karenlee, that information all fits because I was just photographing the charcaols and on the back of John's (ie Janet's likely husband) which seems to have been used as a writing pad, I found the impresion of a pen/pencil stating: Mrs John Beaton, Main Street, on Island, Almonte which is in Lanark township , adjacent to Darling Township and Ramsey and down the Ottawa valley from Deep River. So I can draw a "Tree" for the Beaton's and follow up. Janet being Scottish also fits as that is where the major thread companies came from....Coates and Clark. So does anyone have a line on a likely Patton lineage?
Here is Janet's picture if it works! Thanks Lumber-Jack
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Thanks yet again Karenlee.....so we know it may be spelt Paton and Scottish and Beaton linkages are solid. Will have to go into the Scotland censuses. Don't seem to be able to attach a photo of Janet as it exceeds 500kb limit! Lumber-Jack
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Just made it back from the school pick up.
I have checked the UK Census .... briefly before leaving..... and did not find anything that I felt matched what you were after.
I will have another look now, while the starving hoardes raid the pantry before piano lessons at 5pm
Karenlee
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Thanks Karenlee....I am off to bed 1.30 am.....but one last thought.....Janet's son must be buried in a Canadian port town, maybe Halifax and we know the denomination...Church of Scotland. Also there might be an immigration record say between 1839 and 1850. I willl look tomorrow. Lumber-Jack
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And another thought.....John Beaton was born in the Cape of Good Hope South Africa....I wonder if there are any South African Beatons with an interest in this case? Lumber-Jack
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Hi Lumber - Jack
Have just found a couple of old Roots Web messages from a lady back in 1999 chasing this same family. She states that John BEATON was born in Cape of Good Hope Africa, 31 Jan 1810, lived for 12 years in India ( father was a school headmaster ), Approx 1822 on the way back to UK, the father died and was buried at sea near St Helena Island. By 1843 John BEATON is in Ontario.
That narrows it down a lot. I will try the email link for this lady, but it's been nearly 10 years. At that point she was living in Bristish Columbia Canada. Fingers crossed.
Maybe this will jog someones memory.
Karenlee
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Okay so much for that... the email I sent bounced back to me. Not a surprise though.
On to Plan B - whatever that might be. ;D
Karenlee
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Ontario Deaths
John Beaton died April 29, 1892 b. about 1810 born Cape of Good Hope, place of
death: Darling, Lanark, Ontario
edited
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Thanks dollylee
I don't have access to terribly much from Canada. I did however find a link on An****** for a Janet PATON, something to do with Scottish - American Inheritances, Wills and Financial stuff..... but I can't see the image... the site has frozen on me. No census, no nothing coming up. Must be on a go slow or something.
Going to try and track the BEATON line pre Scotland
Karenlee
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Have just tried the 1841 Scottish census, without success - might be worthwhile someone esle checking in case I missed them :-\.
Karen, re the email that bounced - if you have the woman's name, maybe try a google search with her name in inverted commas, plus perhaps "john beaton" as well, which may narrow her down. This kind of search has worked for me in the past.
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There are hundreds (566 :P) of Paton's in Lanarkshire .........................
... and 57 Pattons.
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I also spotted the Rootsweb posts. Maybe a bit of a long shot but the name of the lady who posted these also appears on the British Colombia Genealogical Society as having transcribed some records. It may be worth contacting them in case it is the same lady:
http://www.bcgs.ca/Index.htm
Pinetree
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Would the death of ? Beaton off St Helena be registered anywhere?
Karen, just discovered the name of person searching for this family, tried googling her name + john beaton, but no other hits for her, so unable to find another email address.
Sorry Pinetree, didn't see your post there ;)
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Just found that link too guys. Will send off an email and see what happens.
Do either of you have An****** UK at all? I can't download images at the moment.... frozen up on me. Can you check for Janet PATON in the American - Scottish Inheritance Wills and Financials for me and see what it says. She's page 115 I think.
Thanks
Karenlee
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I didn't see that one karenlee... but Janet must be a family name for the Patons...there are pages and pages and pages of Wills and probate papers but all the ones I saw in the index were too early...will have to check again.
I am not having any luck at all with Census for this family but seem to find deaths records. I will post them so we can eliminate them in searches looking for descendants born after deaths.
First is the Thomas son from post number 4.
Name: Thomas Beaton died: February 26, 1882 age: 27 years 11 months occ.: farmer born: Ramsey, Ontario informant: John Beaton, Darling religion: Presbyterian
Name: John Edward Beaton died: March 5, 1881 age: 5 months and 14 days
born: Darling informant: John Beaton, Darling
son of Thomas???
dollylee
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Karlenlee,
Just checked entry - I don't think it is the same Janet Paton - this one is the widow of Thomas RUSSELL and the entry dates from 1 Sep 1859. The heir is her son Thomas RUSSELL.
Pinetree
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Thanks Pinetree.
Just wondered as Lumber-Jack mentioned an inheritance, so I thought I'd check that Index. Guess that rules out one source.
Well, I have sent an email to the BCGS and explained what we are up to here, and requested that they pass along my email address to the Darlene Jones...if she's the same one of course. Fingers crossed.
Dollylee... the John Edward BEATON you found is on the IGI as being born Darling Ontario 19 Sept 1881 to Thomas BEATON and Jean Lindsay STEWART. It seems that there were quite a few BEATON families in Ontario so it might be "fun" trying to sort out who is with whom.
If the information to date is correct, I don't think that there would be many children born to John BEATON and Janet PATON in Scotland before they left for Canada. They married in 1838 and were in Canada by 1843. Wonder where they are in 1841 coz I'm having a heck of a time finding them in the UK.
Cheers
Karenlee
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karenlee
From An***try that John Edward is the son of Thomas Beaton and Jean Stewart, so therefore the grandson of John Beaton and Janet Paton.
Information for children of John Beaton and Amelia Thurlow:
An***try confirms:
Birth of their son John Thomas Beaton as April 3, 1893 born Almonte, Ontario
Marriage of Janet Elizabeth Beaton daughter of John Beaton and Emilia Thurlow age 24 married Wm. L. Moffatt, age 32 son of David Moffatt and Euphemia Summerville
June 14, 1913 in Lanark, Ontario.
Death of mother Amelia Thurlow Beaton October 18, 1922 in Lanark, daughter of Hugh Thurlow, Westport Ontario and Annie Christlow, Westport, Ontario Informant: Husband John Beaton, Ottawa buried: Pine Grove Cemetery Oct. 20, 1922
dollylee
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Before I type it out is anyone else doing the 1901 census for John Beaton and Amelia and family? ;D ;D
dollylee
Added:
1901 Census of Canada
Ontario, Lanark, Almonte
RG 31, T-6428 to T-6556
John Beaton M 39 b. Dec. 8, 1861 Ontario Presb. Laborer
Amelia Beaton F 35 b. Sept. 16, 1865 Ontario Presb. Wife
Annie M. Beaton F 14 b. Aug. 17, 1886 Ontario Presb. Dau.
Lizzie Beaton F 12 b. Sept. 12, 1888 Ontario Presb. Dau.
John T. Beaton M 10 b. April 3, 1891 Ontario Presb. Son
Minnie Beaton F 8 Mar. 5, 1893 Ontario Presb. Dau.
Wilfrid Beaton M 3 Oct. 4, 1897 Ontario Presb. Son
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Included in the above family in 1911 Census is:
Howard Beaton M age 9 b. May 1902 son of John and Amelia
Ontario Births 1869 - 1909
Howard Thurlow Beaton b. March 2, 1902 son of John Beaton and Amelia Thurlow
Howard mentioned in the first post?
dollylee
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Been out for an hour or so and just gotten home. I don't have access to any other Canadian records but the 1881 Census on Familysearch. ???
I would say dolly that the Howard you found is the one that Lumber-Jack mentions in his original post. ;D
Great job with all the burial information by the way ;D ;D
Trying to get dinner started and look for these guys tooo.....
Karenlee
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I am glad I could help with the Canadian part karenlee...it's pretty hard when you don't have access to the records but you sure came a long way with using IGI.
I did a search for Coates & Clark and found they had joined up with a company called Patons & Baldwin which operated out of Paisley Row, Renfrewshire. I then did a search for 1841 Census in Renfrewshire... I found what looks like them but.....it says he was born in Scotland????
1841 Scotland Census
Civil Parish: Paisley Row, Renfrewshire
Address: Gawze Street
John Beaton 30 b. abt. 1811 Scotland Occ. Tourneyman Tailor
Janet Beaton 20 b. abt 1821 Scotland
George Beaton 1 b. abt. 1840 Renfrewshire, Scotland
Margaret Paton 50 b. abt. 1791 Scotland
What do you think?
dollylee
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Looks good to me dolly...what with him a tailor and all. Wonder if George is the son who died of scarlet fever on the way over? Wonder if his death was registered in Canada, or if there is a burial record for him. Where's Margaret too??
I don't tend to take too much notice of details on the 1841........ usually not accurate anyway. ::) ::)
Your doing a great job...
Karenlee
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Thanks Karenlee , Dollylee and Ruskie, All your hard work has given me a lot to go on. I went to the Ontario Cemeteries website and was able to download pictures and records for Pine Grove Cemetery , Cemetery Road at St Fillan's Road C10 L20 Beckwith Township Lanark County Ontario for:
John Beaton 1861-1955 and wife Amelia Thurlow 1865-1922
John Edward Beaton 1914-1998 and his wife Helen E.E. McDiarmid ( there are lots of these McDiarmids in this region hence I guess the middle name for Howard Mac in my first post and so Howard Thurlow, son of Jon and Amelia, may have had an additional name or there is another Howard too! I wonder whether John Edward and Helen had a son called Howard McDiarmid Beaton)
William Lorne Moffatt 1897?-194? and Elizabeth Beaton 18?8- 1958? (dates are quite obliterated.
I am still looking for the graves of John Beaton and Janet Paton.
The hit by Dollylee on Patons and Baldwin, and the Beaton's and Margaret Paton in the 1841 Scotland census is an excellent lead....George may well be the unfortunate child to look for in Canadian records. I suspect that John was born on the Cape during his father's travels but the enumerator just kept the record simple but false.
I would love to contact Darlene Jones.....who probably has researched most of this.
Now I have to cut the grass.......talk later. Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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HI there,
Have you checked the deaths a Grosse Isle for the little boy?
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivianet/grosse-ile-immigration/001053-100.01-e.php
Karen
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Marriage Reg. for..
George W. Beaton
Residence when married: Darling, Ontario
Age: 31
Place of birth: Glasgow, Scotland
Bachelor
Occupation: Farmer
Parents: John & Janet Beaton
Isabella Riddle
Age: 29
Residence when married: Ramsey
Place of birth: Ramsay
Spinster
Parents: John & Margaret Riddle
Witnessess: George Gunn & Elizabeth Beaton, Darling, Ontario
Date of Marriage: August 18, 1871, Ramsay, Ontario
County of Lanark
K
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Thanks very much KarenM, the Grosse Isle registers only give a Mary Paton 1839 on the Bark Venture hospitalised o6/02 died 06/16. I will have to go to the Archives to look up the actual record and memorial which may mention next of kin. Could this be Janet's sister also catching the scarlet fever? No Beaton's or babies so far. And I just saw your next post so George is not the baby.There is always the chance that the family memory was faulty and the reality was that Janet cared for her sick sister.....but I am not going there yet because John and Janet had been married long enough to have had a child at time of sailing, and the rest of the record on the charcoal has so far proved to be correct! Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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It's also possible that they had a second child they called George ! happens quite often in families when the first child died ! :-\
Annie
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Very true Annie. I had that happen in my family.
Karen
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Thanks Karen and Annie, I appreciate having received all the childrens marriage info and the suggestion that George may have been named to the second child. Lumber-Jack
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I was trying to find the family on the 1851 Census but.....
For Ramsay Township the manuscript census returns for this sub-district/division no longer exist
Of course ::)
K
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I found this .... any good ?
Paton & Baldwins Ltd, worsted spinners
J & J Baldwin & Partners (Formerly known as)
John Paton, Son & Co (Formerly known as)
GB/NNAF/C195538 (Former ISAAR ref: GB/NNAF/B34824)
c1830-1999: records
Repository
West Yorkshire Archive Service, Calderdale
Record Reference
WYAS2745
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/subjectView.asp?ID=B34824
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Any knitters of a certain age out there will be very familiar with Paton & Baldwins - they were the knitting wool spinners and the name still lives on today http://archive.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/2001/9/24/159098.html
Carole
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I have found someone researching the Paton family from Paisley (including a Janet) on Curious Fox.
Will send them an email.
dollylee
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Morning All
Scotlandspeople has 11 Janet PATON births between 1810 and 1813....... no credits left so have not looked yet............will wait and see if we contact anyone useful before I go any further with this link.
Not heard back from BCGS yet, but it's early days yet.
So it looks like George might have survived his trip to Canada, well spotted KarenM... interested to see if it was in fact the sister who was ill.
I will get back to digging up what I can about this family.
Cheers
Karenlee
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I have found at Grosse Isle, Thomas Patton age 1 died at sea on Pursuit 1847, and William John Patton age 3 died at sea on the Sobraon....both while emigrating to Canada. An issue is to narrow down the date of the Beaton's emigration. For a start it must be after July 1839, their marriage date. That rules out my previous Mary Paton hypothesis as she died in June 1839. I wonder if John went ahead and Janet followed in 1847 with the children using her maiden name? My current bet is now on Thomas Patton as Janet's dead son as he would have been small enough to keep in her arms for the remainder of the voyage.....but there is no record of a memorial at Grosse Isle, the Patton spelling is wrong and why would she not use her married name of Beaton? I feel sad just writing this. Lumber-Jack
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I feel sad too Jack !
The thoughts of her holding the child all that time ... worried in case somebody guessed ... tears my heart out .. God love her !
You know if she was illiterate ( just because she came from a wealthy family doesn't mean she could read ! ) she wouldn't have known she was travelling under that name ... ( if you ever get her marriage certificate ... you'll see if she made her mark !) she was probably asked her maiden name also when she boarded !
Annie
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I think I maybe getting confused ... but I found this and thought I'd better post ... just in case !! ::)
1851 Census of Canada East, Canada West, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia
Name - Janet Patton
Gender - Female
Age 45
Birthplace - Scotland
Province - Canada East (Quebec)
District - Deux Montagnes County
District Number - 33
Sub-District - Lachûte
Sub-District Number - 527
Page - 57
Thomas Patton 57 Farmer
Thomas Patton 21 Labourer
Margaret Patton 1
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Thanks Annie.....not our Janet as we have a marriage record of her to John Beaton and have found them farming in Ontario. But it is always useful to keep information like this just in case and to eliminate candidates under other circumstances such as travel. Lumber-Jack
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A review of the free listings of Wills and Testaments of ScotlandsPeople for Paton in the year range 1836-1900 (the widest possible for Janet to be an inheritor) shows a few major wills for Paton's manufacturing out of their major woollen mill complex at Tilicoultry. All get "probated" at the Alloa Sherrif Court which makes it easy to spot them and a couple are massive and obviously the mill owners ( as opposed to their spouses/relatives). Before taking any plunge and viewing them, a further winnowing could be done if we knew Janet's date of death. Then a read of a will could be very revealing. Incidentally, the listing is already helpful in giving names, dates of death and spouses maternal names:
John P 1873 of Tilicoultry
Helen P (alias Clyde)(1864) spouse of David Paton
Thomas P (1845)mason and feuar at Alloa
Alexander Forrester P d 08/12/1883 father of Alexander Forrester P and Catherine Forrester P *******
John P (1849) manufacturer in Kilncraigs in Alloa
Margaret (Millar) widow of James P, d 17/08/1894*******
David P d 13/07/1890 daughter is Agnes P*****
William P Alloa colliery manager
Robert P foreman joiner in Tilicoultry
James P d 09/08/1882 spouse of Margaret Millar******
Margaret P of Cowden Park
The asterixed items are the best bets to look at depending on when Janet died.
Now for bed and thanks again to all of you for such amazing results in so short a time. I feel that we will have the correct story soon for history to remember Janet by. Lumber-Jack
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Death of Janet (Paton) Beaton
Ontario Deaths 1869-1934
Janet Beaton died September 22, 1903 age 83 in Darling, Lanark. Name of person making the return Mrs. L. Lindsay.
Mrs. L. Lindsay is her daughter Lizzie/Elizabeth.
Ontario Marriages 1857-1924
Elizabeth Beaton(widow Mrs. Cummings) age 38 b. Darling d/of John Beaton and Janet Paton married July 2, 1890 Gavin Lindsay age 70 bachelor, retired farmer, s/o William Lindsay and Ann Campbell in Almonte, Lanark both residents of Almonte.
I think the George in the 1871 marriage KarenM found is the one/only original George as his age is a perfect match for the George in the 1841 Census. The next born child we know about is Lizzie/Elizabeth above.....lots of time inbetween for other children.
dollylee
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Sounds fair to me dolly.
I guess now we just have to wait for a reply from either of the other people we have found looking for this family.
Karenlee
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I have a reply from the person I emailed. Although she has a Janet Paton from Paisley, Renfrewshire as a direct ancestor she can't place our Janet Paton. They have to be related but she just doesn't know how.
dollylee
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Bummer. So I guess we wait on the BCGS then.
Karenlee
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Lumberjack have you gone through the newspapers from the time of this will? You know how hey have "social columns" and such, maybe it was in the paper?
Karen
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Hi folks, I got up to find more great information on my computer thanks to you all. I too have a bead on a person on GenesReunited who may be able to help and I will try to plug some more of our info in today. Janet, bless her , lived a long time so her death does not eliminate any of the 4 candidate wills....I will wait a little longer before spending money to buy credits to view them. The newspapers may be a good move which I will have to follow up on. I think that John and Janet are buried in the Auld Kirk cemetery in Ramsey Ontario ( along with many other pioneer Scots settlers) and there is a reference book ISBN978-1-894008-39-6 by the Lanark Genealogical Society which has completely catalogued this cemetery which should confirm this when I can get my hands on a copy. I am surprised that there has not been a major piece of genealogical research on the Paton's of Tilicoutry/Alloa as they were such an important industrialist family of the time. I have to go to work now but will be hot on the trail later! Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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Death Registration for:
George Washington Beaton
Age: 74 years
Date of Death: October 6, 1914
Place of birth: Glasgow, Scotland
Place of death: Lot 32, Conc. 10, Perry Twp.
Place of burial: Kearny, Ontario
Occupation: Farmer
Married
Father: Johne Beaton
Mother: ------ Patton
Cause of Death: Heart Failure
Informant: Chas Beaton
District of Parry Sound
Karen
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According to the 1901 census, George Beaton lists his year of immigration as 1842
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census/View.jsp?id=72339&highlight=15&desc=1901+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+Archie+Beeton
K
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On the 1901 Census Janet lists her date of birth as Sept. 20, 1820, widow born Scotland, but it dosn't give her year of immigration. She is living with Henry Beaton, age 22, born Scotland and Elizabeth Lindsay, widow, born Ontario March 20, 1852.
Janet is listed as Henry's mother in the census.
I can't find it on www.automatedgenealogy.com , but they are living in Lanark North, Darling Twp., District No. 80
K
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Here's George and family on the 1911, he lists his birthdate as June 1939
His year of immigration is hard to read, looks like 1890, but could be a really bad 4 ???
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=97473
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G'day All,
I received a message via Genes Reunited from Lumber Jack about a Janet Paton. I am the great great grand daughter of a Janet Paton born in 1799 in Alva. I spent several weeks in Scotland researching this line of my family in 2005.
A few things that may help you - the Renfrewshire and Lanarkshire Patons have no connection to the Alva & Tillicoultry Patons back to around 1700 that I could find.
Patons were the biggest Mill owners of the Alva /Tillicoultry/Alloa area and my family are on the poor relation side of the family - our connection is in the early 1700's which was before the Industrial Revolution when all the woollen manufacture was done as a cottage industry, my Janet's father was actually a distillery worker near Alva and his father was a "feuar" or small landholder/farmer of Tillicoultry. The Alva and Tillicoultry Patons are my family. It was the Alloa line that became the Mill owners.
As far as I can recall there weren't any missing heiresses to the Paton fortune as far as my research went with them.
Your Janet Paton would have migrated under her own name of Janet Paton not Janet Beaton because Scottish women retained their own name all their lives - it was only after statutory registrations started under English Law that bureaucrats started using the English practise of giving women their husbands name. My Janet Paton's parents grave stone of 1828 in the Old Alva Cemetery lists Anne MCGregor and her husband John Paton The Old Parish Records show baptisms with the full names of parents eg "Janet Paton, lawful daughter of John Paton and Anne McGregor spouses" or variations of this.
I'll have a look at my notes and records over the weekend and see if I can find a connection to the Janet Paton you are trying to trace with my family, however because of the Scottish naming pattern, which my family followed rigorously there are several Janet Patons in my records.
Hope this may be of some use to you in your search.
Marg
Australia
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Hi Folks, It's been quite a day!
Darlene in B.C. has emailed me ( thanks Karen) and she descends from Margaret , one of Janet and John's 12 children ( though not all survived infancy). She has promised to provide all she knows on the Beaton and Paton lines and I have taken her up on this and will report back to this thread. I know no more yet!!!
Thanks Marg for that useful info on Scottish naming and the evolution of the wollen industry in Alva/Tilicoutry/Aloa. The lack of connection between the Renfrewshire/Lanarkshire Patons and those of Alva/Tilicoultry gives me hope that our Janet Paton may have an Aloa connection. Is that a fair summise? I look forward to what you might discover in your records. How far did you research the Aloa Paton's? I wonder whether Janet, while not a "major'' heiress, may have been cited in one of the wills I identified on this thread. Darlene may have some news for us yet on this. Did you ever go through these wills? I am still inclined to keep following the trail as set out on the back of the original charcoal.
If 1842 is the date if immigration ( see George Beaton record) we have no candidates for the dead son. Janet may not have declared him dead for fear of having him forcibly buried at sea and even carried him through "customs". My guess is to look for a baby Paton/Beaton in a Scots Presbyterian cemetary at point of landing.....Halifax/Quebec City.
The Auld Kirk Book I mentioned in my previous listing also contains comprehensive obituaries....I will be hunting out a copy if I can find one.
And I now have to put all this research into a Gedcom file! Lots of work thanks to you all. Perhaps I will wait a couple of days and see whether Darlene has a Gedcom already! Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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Hello...I hope you don't mind if I bookmark so I can keep up with your research. So interesting... ;D
mab
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Welcome Mab! Lumber-Jack
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Thank you .
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Sounds like you're existing on adrenalin Jack !! :D :D :D :D :D
How exciting this all is ! .... I agree with you - wait and see what is available before you start getting it all up together !! and the best of it is ... it's not even your family !! :D
You've caught "the bug " - ( I'm sorry to say !! ) .... join the rest of us !! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Annie :)
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Hello
There is also a son Stephen Beaton born about 1846 in Ontario. Immigration would be before his birth (date from marriage record) and after George ABT 1841.
Stephen BEATON, 23, farmer born Ramsay ABT 1846, residence Darling, son of John BEATON & Janet PATTON married Jane LINDSAY, 31, born Pakenham, residence Admaston, daughter of John LINDSAY & Elizabeth LEECH, witnesses James POTTER & Ellen LAMONT of Admaston, married 29 Oct 1869 at Admaston in Renfrew County by Rev. William Creighton, Presbyterian
George is listed as born Glasgow ABT 1841 on his marriage record to Isabella Riddle.
Linda
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Thanks Linda and the story keeps coming with a response from Darlene from which I have excerpted so that we can all be kept up to speed:
“I don't know the history of the charcoals but after I see them I will see if they match up with any of the photos I have.
I can Gedcom you my Beaton and Paton files. I do not have a lot of information on Janet Paton before she married John Beaton.
I do know of their second son dying on their crossing the Atlantic to Canada. The story was told often in my family.
My father is the youngest child of the youngest child of Margaret Beaton the 5th child of John and Janet Beaton.
George the 1st child was born 1 June 1840 in Abbey Paisley Renfrewshire Scotland. Previously John Beaton was married to Flora Paton from Abbey Paisley on the 3 November 1832. John and Flora had 2 children, William Pollock Beaton born 16 June 1833 and Jean Paterson Beaton born 4 August 1835. Jean Paterson Beaton died 15 January 1838 age 2. Flora apparently died at the birth of Jean Paterson Beaton.
John Beaton then got remarried the 15 July 1839 in the Gobals area of Glasgow.
I am not aware of any relationship between Flora Paton and Janet Paton.
On the 1841 census Scotland Renfrewshire Abbey Paisley John and Janet Beaton and their son George age 1 born in the county, are living on Gauge Street. John age 30 is listed as a journeyman tailor not born in the county, Janet age 20 is listed as not born in the county.
Their 2nd child John Beaton was born 5 August 1843 (died on the ship). The ship was apparently named "Renfrew" but I can't verify that for sure. John Beaton the child is supposed to be buried in Quebec where they landed.
John Beaton died 29 April 1892 and Janet died 22 September 1903, both were buried on the family farm but the graves were moved in 1965 to Hopetown Cemetery in Lanark County.
William Pollock Beaton the 1st child of John Beaton to his first wife came over also. He moved to the USA and died in 1909 in Kansas. Son Stephen also moved to the USA and died in Washington State, and daughter Janet married and moved to the USA and died in New York State.
The rest of the children stayed in Canada.
My Grandmother died in 1990 at the age of 98 years, my father is the only one now living of his generation as he is 87 years old.
Possibly the drawings you have could have been in the old homestead where James Pollock McDougall (known as Pollock) lived with his wife. They had no children and I believe everything was sold off.
Pollock McDougall (son of Margaret Beaton & William McDougall) died in 1977 and is buried in White's Cemetery in Lanark County.”
and from a second reply from Darlene:
" Not sure who Howard Mc. is. I'm looking though my files to see if there is a Howard McDougall.
The charcoals are beautiful. I have a couple of tiny photos that the charcoals look like. So now I do
know who they are for sure.
I don't think the Howard is tied in with Pollock, he didn't have any children.
Russell McDougall lived in the old homestead, he died in 1949. He is a younger
brother of Pollock.
As far as the Paton family from Alloa, I don't know anything of that. I do not believe that Janet was
entitled to any fortune as nothing was ever mentioned in our family stories.
Listened to stories all the time from my grandmother Margaret McDougall (married name Gerow)
John Beaton was very proud of his birth in Cape of Good Hope Africa, on every census he states it
as his birthplace and his children that lived in the USA always stated Africa as the place of birth of
their father.
As John Beaton's first wife was a Paton also it can get very confusing in sorting out the family tree.
You know I can remember my father telling me about Grandma Beaton holding her baby all wrapped up
to keep it safe. My father never met his Grandma Beaton as she died in 1903 and my father was born
in 1921.
My grandmother used to say that her grandfather John Beaton saw his father buried at sea and didn't want to see
one of his children buried at sea. His 2nd child from his 1st wife is buried in Abbey Paisley. On the 1841 census of
Scotland, Abbey Paisley, John Beaton's 1st child William Pollock Beaton is living with the Paton family close to where
John and Janet Beaton were living. "
So now to find son John's burial in Quebec City.......
To track down the good and aptly named ship "Renfrew"......
To visit the cemetaries in the Ottawa valley with my digital camera....
And to resolve the Alloa Paton fortune mystery.....I still trust the back of the charcoal...somehow it was fated to be uncovered!!!!
Any more tonight? Best wishes to you all, Lumber-Jack
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And I might well find baby John through the Quebec and Eastern Townships Genealogy Research Page which has a pretty comprehesive searchable database with a small fee , but good prescreening capability. Coverage includes Quebec City protestant burials in the 1840's and John Beaton's, Paton's and Patton's are listed. Will keep you all posted. Lumber-Jack
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A fascinating story Lumber-Jack! It would make a good film ;).
Very nice of Darlene to share her information with you too ... ;)
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Hi everybody, I got back from walking my westies to discover a lot of great information from Darlene on my e-mail. I now have so much about the Beaton family that I would ask you all to stop researching that side of the issue at least until I can identify any gaps!!!! THANKS.
However , to keep you all up to speed here are some selected pieces of vital information:
Janet's obituary
Obituary: The Lanark Era Wednesday October 14 1903
(Published in book: The Lanark Era, Births, Marriages and Deaths, The Missing Issues, to 1930)
(1903, 1916, 1920-29, 1930)
Volume Three
by: Peter E. Andersen ISBN 1-894378-84-9 (Global Heritage Press, Milton, Ontario 2003)
Page 15:
Darling, Tues.Sept.22nd 1903, Janet Beaton, wife of John Beaton. She was born in Glasgow Scotland, 15 Sept.1820 and married there at the age of 19 years. She and her husband and two children emigrated in 1842 to Canada on the ship "Renfrew". During a very stormy voyage, measles broke out on the ship that caused the death of her infant child. She concealed its demise until debarkation in order to insure a burial. Fifteen other children died during the voyage and were consigned to the sea. After living near Clayton they moved to Darling in 1858 where her husband was a schoolteacher. He died eleven years ago and both were buried in their family plot on the property. They had a family of thirteen of whom nine reached adulthood. There survive three sons and three daughters; George at Kearney, Ontario; Stephen; Margaret (Mrs.Wm. McDougall) of Dalhousie; Elizabeth, widow of the late Gavin Lindsay of Almonte; John of Almonte; and Janet, wife of Rev. W.L. Hendrich of Huntingdon, Mass. In addition there is Henry Gilchrist Beaton a son adopted in 1883. The funeral was held at the homestead Thurs. Sept. 24th. (Ed: Her maiden name was Paton and she was the last of a family of six. The Family gravesite was exhumed in 1965 and transferred to Hopetown Cemetery when a Marble Quarry was started on the farm site.)
Note that the newspaper editor states that Janet was the last of a family of 6.
Janet's relocated tombstone reads "A pioneer Tatlock Family arrived from Scotland in1842 John Beaton 1810-1892 wife Janet Paton ( note spelling) 1820-1903 Their children Thomas 1854-1882 Helen 1848-1900 Infant"
A photocopy of marriage entry in parish records from Gorbals,Glasgow Scotland:
Page 237 Old Parochial Registers(OPR) Index for Scotland 644/2/7.
States: John Beaton and Janet Paton both of this Parish. Married by the
Rev John Johnstone 15th July 1839.
John Beaton states on Ontario Census records of 1861 , 1871 and 1891 that his place of birth
was Cape Good Hope Africa.
Family papers state that John Beaton was educated in India till the age of 12 years and on their return to
Britain (approx. 1822) that his father died on the ship and was buried at sea near St.Helena
Island ( ed. note. hence a wish not to have his son buried at sea?)
I have submitted for a copy of son John Beaton's burial record in Quebec City if Marlene Simmonds of the prevoiusly referenced "Page" can find him on parish microfiche.
So where do I need RootsChatter help?
Any evidence of the ship "Renfrew" and the passage to Canada would be helpful . I have tried but not yet found anything.
Any information on Janet's Paton family and any linkage to the paton Alloa inheritance if it existed. I am still a believer. Why would the original author on the charcoal state that she did not reurn to claim it AND reference a Canadian relative..a lawyer.. who did?This is too much information not to hold a nugget of truth. Yes measles became scarlet fever but we can forgive time and memory for that.
I also wonder whether the local newspapers had a bead on the inheritance line too. The editor seemed well informed about the 6 Paton siblings.
If there are any other Janet relatives out there who can shed some light , we would love to hear from you.
Best wishes and I am going fishing tomorrow. Lumber-Jack
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I have received another reply from the lovely lady I found on Curious Fox. In my reply to her first email I sent her the link to this page......and she became very interested in this line of the Paton family.
This morning I woke up to 5 further emails from her....but the most important one included this link to Janet Patons (our Janet) family.
quote:
http://awt.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=l-61841&id=I2912&ti=5538
Somebody has clearly done a lot of research, which they have submitted
to Ancestry.co. This is Janet's family, as I thought this morning.
Janet
end quote
She thinks she may be related to John's first wife Flora (ie).
I wish she would join in and give her comments here herself.......she seems to be a very thorough and experienced researcher........plus a very lovely lady :D ( Are you reading this Janet ;D ;D)
dollylee
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Thanks Dolly....now I ( we) are really in trouble!!!!
Our records give Janet Paton a birth date of 15 Sept 1820 in Glasgow as one of 6 children ( could be children who survived to adulthood). Our record sources are not well documented.
The "Fox lady" URL has Janet born 14 September 1819 Stewarton Ayrshire as one of 9 children. Her sources are well documented.
Could well be our Janet but dates, siblings and place do vary. Stewarton is SW of Glasgow and much closer to Kilmarnock.
If she is our Janet then there are a lot of wills to trace and it does not yet discount a linkage to the Paton's of Alloa.
I need help from experts in Scottish genealogy! I still think a peek at those Alloa wills may short circuit the issue.
Lumber-Jack
-
I have received another reply from the lovely lady I found on Curious Fox. In my reply to her first email I sent her the link to this page......and she became very interested in this line of the Paton family.
This morning I woke up to 5 further emails from her....but the most important one included this link to Janet Patons (our Janet) family.
quote:
http://awt.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=l-61841&id=I2912&ti=5538
Somebody has clearly done a lot of research, which they have submitted
to Ancestry.co. This is Janet's family, as I thought this morning.
Janet
end quote
She thinks she may be related to John's first wife Flora (ie).
I wish she would join in and give her comments here herself.......she seems to be a very thorough and experienced researcher........plus a very lovely lady :D ( Are you reading this Janet ;D ;D)
dollylee
Goodness, Dolly :o
I have been reading through this thread getting fascinated and did a look onSP to find a Janet, b. Ayrshire with parents John and Margaret (per naming conventions and a Margaret Paton being with them on the 1841) and was just about to post this when I came to your link. I'll post in anyway:
19 Sept 1819 - Janet - d/o John Paton and Margaret Dickie, Stewarton, Ayrshire
but this one died because there is the bpt. of another Janet to these parents, Stewarton on 2nd Sept 1821
Gadget
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Note - thes are the only Janet/Jean/Jane Paton bpts in Ayr/Renfrew/Lanark with mother Margaret 1819-1821.
Gadget
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Here I hope is a photo of the Janet Beaton/Paton charcoal. I have no idea how this is going to turn out! Lumber-Jack
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Well that turned out well and thanks to Dolly and Nell for setting me on the right track to doing photos. So here is Janet's husband, John Beaton's charcoal. It is good to put some faces to the people we have been talking about. Lumber-Jack
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They are wonderful !! :D :D :D
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Thanks Gadget, I need help.
Does your finding of a birth of another Janet to John and Margaret in "memory " of the previous Janet who likely died , coupled with my questions on dates, place and # of siblings suggest that the Paton line identified on Curious Fox is not that of our Janet?
Lumber-Jack
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Wow....... those pictures are amazing. I had imagined them as being rather crude drawings.
No wonder you were interested in the family Lumber-Jack.
Thanks for that note Gadget. Although I am not sure what part of my posting caused the "Goodness, Dolly :o "
Life is interrupting.... hope to catch up with this later.
dollylee
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Hi Lumber- Jack
Firstly, those are fantastic drawings, you are very lucky :D
The Janets that I found bapisms for are the only ones in the limited date period (1819-1821) in the greater Glasgow area where Mother's name is Margaret - as the 1841 census that Dolly found and of the l;ink that she put up for the A*try tree. This family is not on the 1851 census which is suggestive of them emigrating.
I'm assuming that the first Janet (bpt. 1819) died and that Janet, bpt 1821, is the probable one on the 1841.
I've skim read most of the thread as it is fairly long so might have missed some significant points. I did note that your early info had Janet b. circa 1812 and Karen had done a search based on these dates. Because of the rounding down on 1841 census, Janet would be 20-24 then and your later info suggests that it was circa 1820.
Here's a parish map of Ayrshire to show the position of Stewarton parish:
http://scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-ayr.htm
and Lanarkshire:
http://scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-ayr.htm
and Renfrewshire (on a multi-county)
http://scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-stirling.htm
Gadget
PS -Dolly, the Goodness was that I was reading the thread while searching and came onto your last message as I found the Janet baptisms ;D
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I made a mistake in my excitement - the second bpt. in 1821 was of a Jean not Janet (I was searching on variations of the name) so your Janet could be either 1819 or 1821 :-\
Same parents though.
I've checked the marriage/banns entry but it gives very little info except that they were both 'of the parish' in 1839.
Gadget
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G'day All,
There is a Janet Paton born 18th July 1817 and baptised 31st July 1817 in Gorbals, Lanarkshire, her parents were Robert Paton and Jean Inglis who were married on the 6th December 1813. I haven't found any siblings for Janet but they may have been baptised in nearby church as this was an area with a rapidly growing population due to the development of factories in this period. This Janet's father is probably Robert George Paton, born 18th May 1777 and baptised on the 28th May 1777 in Gorbals. His parents are George Paton and Helen McGee. I've found three other children for this couple, Robert born 1771, Barbara born 1774 and George, born 1775, all baptised in Gorgals.
I haven't found anything on Jean Inglis
While Janet is listed as 20 years old on the 1841 Census remember that that Census rounded ages up and down usually to the nearest 10, and sometimes to a 5.
I think this is most likely your Janet Paton and I don't think there is any connection with the Alloa Patons. Gorbals is just south west of Glasgow and Alloa is north east of Stirling and while that only takes about an hour to drive today it was an enormous distance in the early 1800's when walking was the common mode of travel.
As I have already mentioned I have researched the Alva/Tillicoultry/Alloa Patons back to 1700 and there is no connection to the Lanark Patons in that period. My research on this has been confirmed by that of a friend who is a descendant of the Lanark Patons.
I think it highly unlikey that either of the Paton brothers who established and buit up the Paton mills would be leaving an inheritance to a woman to whom they had no connection in the previous 150 years when they had direct descendants of their own, as well as many closer relations.
While it is highly likely that your Janet had an inheritence to collect in Scotland I think you can discount it being part of the Paton's knitting fortune!
Glasgow and surrounds was a rapidly growing area in the first part of the 19th century - there were many woollen mills around that area and it is quite likely that a close relation of your Janet Paton did make money from this industry in the Glasgow area.
Regards,
Marg
Australia
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Hi Marg :)
Welcome to Roots :D
Are you therefore discounting the Scottish naming conventions and the fact that there is a Margaret Paton, aged 50-54 with them on the 1841?
Gadget
-
OK , time for me to stick my neck out and have a review of the "Janet" evidence, with thanks to all our contributors.
In the 1841 Scotland Census Janet is age 20 born abt 1821 in Scotland and Margaret Paton age 50 born abt 1791 in Scotland is living with her family. The Beatons have not been found in the 1851 census and therefore could have emmigrated.
In the 1881 for Canada , Janet is 69, hence born "mathematically" in 1812 ( but I suspect that the 9 is a misread of the census record for a 1 which would make the birth date 1820)
In the Canada 1901 Census, Janet lists her date of birth as 20 September 1820
Janet's death is reported for September 1903 age 83 so "mathematically" she was born in 1820
Janet's obituary states she was born in Glasgow 15 September 1820 and married at age 19.
If she was 19 when she married John as recorded on the 15 of July 1839 in Gorbals Lanarkshire she would "mathematically " have been born in 1820
Curious Fox has a Janet being born 14 September 1819 Stewarton, Ayrshire ( with 9 not the 6 siblings from her obituary and at some distance from Glasgow or Abbey Paisley, Renfrewshire where son George was born 15 Sept 1820)
Marg has a Janet Paton born 18th July 1817 and baptised 31st July 1817 in Gorbals, Lanarkshire, her parents were Robert Paton and Jean Inglis who were married on the 6th December 1813. She has found no siblings for Janet but they may have been baptised in nearby church as this was an area with a rapidly growing population due to the development of factories in this period. This Janet's father is probably Robert George Paton, born 18th May 1777 and baptised on the 28th May 1777 in Gorbals. His parents are George Paton and Helen McGee.
Although the 1841 Census rounded ages up and down usually to the nearest 10, and sometimes to a 5, the 1820 date holds for all census information we have except a suspect Canada 1881, though I grant that it is not uncommon for a date established in the 1841 to stick forever even in the mind of the owner regardless of its fiction!
From all of the above I conclude so far that Janet Paton was born in the greater Glasgow/Abbey Paisley region probably in 1820 with siblings and we have not yet found her childhood family. So I still need your help on this.
Thanks to Dollylee we have a firm of Patons and Baldwin out of Paisley Row, Renfrewshire, worstead spinners stemming from a merger of J.J. Balwin and John Paton and Son. Remember that the original inscription on the charcoal was a thread fortune as opposed to a wollen fortune.
I think that Marg makes a great deal of sense when she emphasises to me that there is no connection to the Alloa Patons. I can do no better than to quote her:
"Gorbals is just south west of Glasgow and Alloa is north east of Stirling and while that only takes about an hour to drive today it was an enormous distance in the early 1800's when walking was the common mode of travel.
I have researched the Alva/Tillicoultry/Alloa Patons back to 1700 and there is no connection to the Lanark Patons in that period. My research on this has been confirmed by that of a friend who is a descendant of the Lanark Patons.
I think it highly unlikey that either of the Paton brothers who established and built up the Paton mills would be leaving an inheritance to a woman to whom they had no connection in the previous 150 years when they had direct descendants of their own, as well as many closer relations.
While it is highly likely that your Janet had an inheritence to collect in Scotland I think you can discount it being part of the Paton's knitting fortune!
Glasgow and surrounds was a rapidly growing area in the first part of the 19th century - there were many woollen mills around that area and it is quite likely that a close relation of your Janet Paton did make money from this industry in the Glasgow area."
I am glad I have not spent money on Alloa wills!
So that leaves me with Margaret Paton age 50 born abt 1791 from the 1841 census. Who is she...mother, older sister? And could she be either, or related to the close relation of whom Marg refers? Is she related to that firm of John Paton and Son( note the singular son...a weak line of inheritance)? Where is she in the later Scotland Censuses. I could guess that she would have died at the right age to have willed something to a living Janet. Where could I find her will if it exists? Are there wills associated with Paton and Baldwin? Has the clue been staring us in the face? All are questions and summises on which I would welcome comment and help.
That's my best shot for now! Best wishes and thanks again to all who contributed to making this analysis possible so far. Lumber-Jack
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Well done Lumber-Jack, a great job of summarising there. I do agree about the lack of connection for Janet to "the" PATON family. Instinct makes me think that Margaret was Janet's mother rather than sister and that we should be looking for a Janet born to mother Margaret. But that's just me. :-\
Little did I know what I was getting into when I first contributed to this thread..... but I am so glad that I did, it's been an amazing ride.
The pictures are wonderful....... I was a bit like dolly in thinking that they were simpler drawings.
I guess that SP is the best option for death for Margaret and for Wills for the PATON line.
Cheers
Karenlee
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Just checked the SP Wills index and there are 2 Margaret PATON with Wills between 1841 and 1851. Should I bite the bullet and get them both to check??
Note :- they are for the same woman, Mrs Margaret PATON alias CLUB, sometimes residing in Fraserburgh dated 11/01/1847 Aberdeen Sheriff Court Wills......
Karenlee
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And one last thought from Darlene...."I do wonder if Janet's mother's name is either Ellen or Helen as Janet and John Beaton named their first daughter Ellen (Helen) Beaton". She also doubts that the Curious Fox Janet is a match because " she is in Ayr and
Glasgow was always mentioned (for our Janet)." Lumber-Jack
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I would hold for now Karen . Let's see if the Ellen/Helen lead works out first and whether there are further responses to my review post...but great news nevertheless. I would not want people spending lots of credits on my behalf on such flimsy evidence. I also wonder who the related lawyer is who apparently claimed his share. Thanks very much, Lumber-Jack
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Not spending to look at the index Lumber-Jack.
There is a Will for a Helen PATON alias CLYDE wife of David PATON, manufacturer in Tillicoultry 25/02/1864 Alloa Sheriffs Court.
None for an Ellen PATON.
Karenlee
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Can I throw a spanner in the works? Did anyone else notice that there were two Lindsay marriages in Canada: - one, the daughter Elizabeth, to Gavin Lindsay ... and the other, Stephen, to a Jane Lindsay?
If the two Lindsays were related ... *sigh* that'd throw my genealogy software for a loop, ... !
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John and Amelias daughters married brothers:
Annie married Frederick Virtue in 1913.
Minnie married Arthur Virtue in 1919.
Maybe this family didn't like having a lot of "inlaws" lol
dollylee
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Does anyone else find it oddly curious that the two Paton researchers we have quoted on this thread are: Marg when we think we are looking for a mother Margaret and Janet when we are looking for a Janet?
Not a comment worth the space it is taking....but I find it kind of spooky ;D ;D
dollylee
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Just a few points from Lumber Jack's posting.
The Margaret on the 1841 would have been born circa 1786-1791 and we don't know her maiden surname or even if she was married.
However, the An***try tree has Margaret Dickie b. about 1784 - so not too far out (although it also suggests that John married again :-\ )
The Jean (could be called Janet) bpt. 1821 would have been born before that date - but a year earlier is unusual in those days. Is it coincidence that she was bpt. 2 Sept. 1821 and L-J's Janet was said to have been b. 20 Sept. 1820.
Based on my own ancestor's movements in Scotland in the 1820-40 period, Stewarton to south Glasgow is no distance at all - they used horse and cart.
My money's still on this Stewarton family with 9 children.
Gadget
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Just another thought ... from alarming personal experience LOL - Jean/Janet/Jessie all seem to be interchangeable. Went looking for a great aunt Jean, only to find that she was actually christened Janet, but was called "Jessie" by the family :-\
-
Glad you see this as well Deb - I said that yesterday when I first came onto the thread :)
Most of the Scottish Board lookers-up would automatically be looking for these variations.
Gadget
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Ooooops missed that one! :o
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Not too worry - there is so much to read that it's easy to miss some points :)
I did do a fairly thorough search on SP for all J Pa*ton* 1819 to 1821 as I'd seen that Karenlee had looked at the earlier period. I'll have a look if there are any with a mother Ellen/Helen :)
-
2 with mother's name Helen - a Jean and a Jesse (Female) in 1819 - Angus and Stirlingshire.
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OK, I am having a tough time trying to figure out Janet's Scottish roots!
Gadget's money is on the An....try/Curious Fox family but I still have difficulties with this setting aside my previous concerns over differences in #'s of siblings, location and date of birth:
In that listing Margaret Dickie is born abt 1784 , marries John Paton ( b1774) in 1805 and amongst others produces:
Janet (born 14 September 1819 christened 19 September 1819)
Jean (born abt September 1821 christened 2 September 1821)
Margaret (born 22 September 1815 christened 22 September 1815)
These are sourced from church parish records and therefore likely accurate for the christening dates
With both a Janet and a Jean in the family I would think they would keep the names discrete to the individuals so that the common interchanging of Jean, Janet, and Jessie for the same individual probably did not occur in this family.
The daughter Margaret is too young to be the Margaret Paton age 50 born abt 1791 who was living with the Beaton's in the 1841 Census of Scotland.
According to the An....try /Curious Fox family file:
John Paton, Margaret Dickie's husband died in 1829 .
Their last child together was Elizabeth (born 17 July 1824 with no christening date given)
John Paton married a second wife, Mary Cunningham, presumably between 1824 and 1829
My guess is that Margaret Dickie died in that period, maybe as a result of complications from Elizabeth's birth.
Granted there could have been a "divorce" but it would be unusual.
So if Margaret Dickie died between 1824 and 1829 she could not be the Margaret Paton age 50 born abt 1791 who was living with the Beaton's in the 1841 Census of Scotland, even though their birth dates might be in the same "ball-park" (1791/1784 though church records of this time are more accurate than the early census). She could not be Janet or Jean's mother.
I would welcome any comments on this theory. It does hinge on the veracity of John's remarriage to Mary and the supposition that Margaret died.
So I am still stuck with the highlighted conclusions of my recent reviw posting. Janet's childhood family has not been found; Margaret Paton holds a key; and the John Paton company of Paisley may be significant from the inheritance perspective.
Out of interest does anyone know where Cowden Park was, given that we do have a will for a Margaret Paton from that location?
I remain very grateful to all of you who are helping with this and are probably sharing in my frustration at this point.....though we have really come a very long way together since my first posting!!!
Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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Cowden Park House is a house in Alloa, Clackmannanshire, Scotland. On 17 June 1977 it was listed as a Category C(s) building
It was built in the 1850s for Alexander Forrester-Paton, a member of the family which owned the Paton & Baldwins Wool company. The Paton family which owned large areas of land in Clackmannanshire.
Cowden Park House was first used as a house, and was later turned into a school for disabled people. Next it was used for offices as a council building. After this it was split into three houses and was sometimes used as offices for small businesses.
It is currently used as three houses.
The architect was John Melvin, Sr., (1805-7 March 1884 )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patons_and_Baldwins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gean_House
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Thanks Annie.....looks like I am barking up the wrong tree ( good metaphor for a genealogist and an old dog like myself!) with this Margaret as we have set aside the Paton wool magnates. Is the John Paton and Son of Paisley that I keep refering too the same family as the wool magnate family that we have eliminated thanks to Marg's advice? If so , I should stop pursuing them to. Thanks Lumber-Jack
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I just received this in an email from Janet:
"John Paton's second wife Mary Cunningham
(which Lumberjack thinks proves his assertion that Margaret Dickie died
before the 1841 census) is a red herring. Whoever submitted the
information about John Paton having a second wife muddled their John
Patons. There is a most useful family tree at
http://hometown.aol.com/rosecote/myhomepage/heritage.html which sets
out at very great length the descendants of the famous Captain John
Paton of Ayrshire 1614-1684 (Janet Paton's ancestor I would lay money).
Mary Cunningham was the second wife of his grandson John Paton 1701-
unknown, not the later John Paton.
If there was an inheritance it may have been waiting for her from Janet
Paton's brother Hugh, who seems to have done rather well for himself.
Janet "
I haven't checked out the website myself as it is 3:34 a.m. here and I am half asleep.
I have encouraged Janet to join rootschat and join in the conversation as she seems to be very knowledgeable and certanly has done a lot of research for this topic.
Hopefully she will and see her very soon !!
dollylee
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Hallo, I placed the Curiousfox ad and have been corresponding with Dollylee. Finally, I have retrieved my username to join in the Paton chat!
Margaret Cunningham was the second wife of a John Paton born in 1701, the grandson of the famous Captain John Paton 1614-1681. I am fairly sure the Captain is an ancestor of grieving heiress (or not as the case may be) Janet Paton.
I think that whoever, on Ancestry.com, has given Janet Paton's father a second wife simply got their John Patons muddled and that Janet Paton's mother Margaret Dickie was still alive in 1841 living in Gauze Street, Paisley with the Beatons.
Worth looking at http://hometown.aol.com/rosecote/myhomepage/heritage.html showing that the Ayrshire Patons were a breed unto themselves and separate from the Paisley Patons (mine) even though some may later have moved up to live in Paisley alongside the indigenous Paisley Patons, who were, by the way, all drapers to a man. And the Alloa Patons were another entirely separate branch again.
Gauze Street, Paisley was not a great address. I don't know why any Paton from Alloa with a connection to factory wealth would choose to live in Gauze Street, Paisley.
Has anybody set out in a list the Christian names of Janet Paton and John Beaton's children. These can be a great pointer in the right direction.
By the way, I have identified John Beaton's first wife as Florie Paton, daughter of James Paton b 1772 and Jean Paterson, who married 29 November 1806 and had Florie 24 October 1807. The name of Florie and John Paton's daughter Jean Paterson Beaton clinches it
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Wow. What a great addition to this thread. Thanks for that, much appreciated Sleepless2.
Who'd have thought that we'd get this far.
Karenlee
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Thank you so much for joining us Sleepless2. Remembering your user name can be quite a problem, eh? lol (just a little touch of Canada there).
I am off to bed....goodnight all
dollylee
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Welcome from me too, Sleepless :)
Based on your views (and my gambling instinct ;D ) , I have been looking for possible parents of Margaret Dickie. I noticed that the children of John Paton and Margaret were, in birth order:
Hugh - John's Father (John's parents - Hugh Paton and Mary Brown)
Mary
Adam - should be Margaret's father
John
Margaret
James
Janet
Jean
Elizabeth
I've not located Margaret's birth/baptism BUT I've found a couple who were having children around the correct time in Stewarton and whose names appear in the correct order if we follow Scottish naming conventions. These were:
Adam Dickie and Mary Cunninghame.
I can't find a marriage/Banns for them but there is an entry for a Mary Cunnighame marrying a John Dickie in Stewarton on 7 May 1782.
The first daughter, Mary, in the above list could therefore be named for both John's and Margaret's mother.
Gadget
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That's great - pure testimony to "Scottish Naming Pattern". (I am not sure I am a gambler but I am a tremendous flyer of kites!)
And interesting that Mary Cunningham may well have been the name of Margaret Dickie's mother too. When I mentioned Margaret Cunningham in the previous posting I did of course mean MARY Cunningham, as the mystery second wife of John Paton (but, I believe, the John Paton born 1701). The two Mary Cunninghams may well have caused confusion at some stage somewhere in somebody's thinking.
What about the names of John Beaton and Janet Paton's children. Any Adams or Hughs??
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Hi Sleepless
I'm not sure about the children of John and Janet - maybe our Canadian searchers can find them. i recall a George (but was he the one who died) and a John. Also, Karenlee found them on the 1881 census:
Just checked the 1881 for Canada and found the following :-
1881 Census Canada Ontario Lanark Darling
C-13233/Dist 112/F/Page 15
BEATON
John Head Marr 71 Farmer Ethnic/Origin Scottish born Cape of Good Hope Africa Religion Church of Scotland
Janet Wife Marr 69 Ethnic/Origin Scottish born Scotland Religion Church of Scotland
Thomas Son Unmarr 27 Farmer Ethnic/Origin Scottish born Ontario Religion Church of Scotland
Ellen Dau Unmarr 23 Etnic/Origin Scottish born Ontario Religion Church of Scotland
John Son Unmarr 19 School Teacher Ethnic/Origin Scottish born Ontario Religion Church of Scotland
Janet Dau Unmarr 16 School Teacher Ethnic/Origin Scottish born Ontario Religion Church of Scotland
Hope this is helping
Karenlee
What I have got is the testament of John Paton, wright of Stewarton, , d. 1829. I've just blown £5 and downloaded it. The first paragraph mentions his wife Margaret Dickie.
The writing is very poor and I'll have to do some enhancing to read it all.
Watch this space.
Gadget :)
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Not a huge amount of information except that it proves that Margaret survived John Paton and that John was a wright/?blacksmith
I have transcribed most of the will/inventory but have excluded a very long list of debtors:
Inventory of the personal estate and effects which belonged to the late John Paton Wright in Stewarton at the time of his death which happened upon the Thirtieth day of January eighteen hundred and twenty nine years made and given up by Mrs Margaret Dickie or Paton relict of the said defunct and executrix qua ? decerned to the said defunct by the Commissary Depute of Ayrshire upon the Ninth of July last
Primo
To principal sum contained in William Orr of Lambroughtons acceptance to the deceased dated 12th November 1826 and payable 3 months after date £56.17.6
Interest thereon till defuncts death 2 year £ 4.5.3 1/2
£61.2.9 1/2
Secundo £12.2.8
Tertio £15.0.0
Quarto £15.17.3
Quinto (Backdebts) list includes William Cunninghame Esq (owing £30) £55.2.11
(Doubtful debts) £3.3.8
Sexto (stock in trade and implements) £60.15.10
£196.2.51/2
Sum of the Inventory amounting to one hundred and ninety six pounds two shillings and five pence halfpenny sterling
(signed) Margaret Dickie Will Eaton At Ayr the thirty first day of December eighteen hundred and twenty nine years
In the presence of William Eaton Esquire Commissary Depute of Ayrshire and the before named an designed Mrs Margaret Dickie or Paton widow of the late John Paton Wright Stewarton and being solemnly sworn and examined Depones that the said John Paton died upon the Thirtieth day of January last and the deponent has entered upon the profession and management of the deceased's estate as executrix dalivo (?) qua relict in virtue of a decree pronounced by the Commissary Depute upon the Ninth day of July last that the Deponent does not know of any settlement or writing relative to the disposal of the deceased's personal estate or affects any or part of them. That the foregoing inventory written on the two proceeding pages each of which is signed by the Deponent and the Commissary Depute as relative ? is a full and true Inventory of the personal and movable estate and effects of the said deceased John Paton wheresoever situated already reasoned or known to be existing belonging or due to him beneficially at the time of his death and that the said estate situated in Scotland is of the value of One hundred and fifty pounds sterling and under the value of Two hundred pounds sterling all of which is truth as the deponent shall answer to God (signed) Margaret Dickie Will Eaton
Written by John Eaton
If we use the Retail Price Index calculator this would be worth £14,324.89p or £9,706.02 using the National Archives calculator.
Not bad but not a fortune - about the price of a small car :-\
Gadget
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Great stuff....my theory has been debunked....I won't gamble with Gadget. I will do a review later but here is the list of Janet and John Beaton's children:
2nd marriage only
George W. Beaton born 1 June 1840 Abbey Paisley Scotland died 6 October 1914 Kearney Ontario (7 children)
John Beaton born 5 August 1843 Abbey Paisley Scotland died about September 1843 on ship crossing
Stephen Beaton born 8 August 1846 Clayton Ontario died 10 January 1929 Bellingham Washington(5 children)
Ellen Beaton born 9 July 1848 Clayton Ontario died 22 November 1900 Lanark County Ontario(not married)
Margaret Beaton (McDougall) born 9 May 1850 Clayton Ontario died 9 January 1940 Lanark County (7 children)
Elizabeth Mary Beaton (Cumming)(Lindsay) born 20 March 1852 Lanark County died 16 November 1941 Lanark (no children)
Thomas Beaton born 31 March 1854 Lanark died 26 February 1882 Lanark County (1 child died infancy)
Janet Beaton born 10 Jun 1856 Lanark died infancy
Jane Beaton born 30 January 1859 Lanark died infancy
John Beaton born 8 December 1861 Lanark died 1955 (6 children)
Janet B. Beaton (Hendrick) born 18 December 1864 Lanark died 6 May 1942 Richville NY (1 child)
Henry Gilchrist Beaton (adopted home child) born 1879 Glasgow died 7 February 1858 Kitscoty Alberta (2 children)
Lumber-Jack
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Hmmmmmmm no Adam and no Hugh. However, it was the next generation down and naming conventions might well have been dropped at that stage.
I've forgotten JOhn Beaton's parents' names, so will go have another read of the thread!
It's such a pity that official registration only started in Scotland in 1855. It looks as if Margaret Paton (nee Dickie) died before then. I can't get a real identification on the 1851 or in the deaths :-\
There is a possible Margaret Paton on the 1841 in Stewarton:
Cocklebie Street, Stewarton
Margt Paton, 60-64, sewer, b. Ayrshire
The only Margaret Dickie in the 1841, Stewarton is 50-54 and appears to be married to a John Dickie, farmer (no relationships given on the 1841 :( )
Gadget
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Thanks very much Sleepless2,
I had looked at http://hometown.aol.com/rosecote/myhomepage/heritage.html late last night, and got really confused by the use of bracketed 3's at the entries "5 [3] John Paton 1774 - 1829 +Margaret Dickie 1784 - Unknown " and "*2nd Wife of [3] John Paton + Mary Cunningham " and I suspect this might have contributed to the muddled information you referred to. Obviously the 1696 John Paton died in infancy at does not enter the picture. " 3 John Paton 1701 - Unknown" would have been way too old to marry Margaret Dickie but presumably fine for Mary Cunningham!!! And thanks Gadget for the will lookup, especially after I doubted you....eh! So whatever fortune Janet might have been eligible to inherit, it is buried within this family and probably quite deeply. All other Paton families and fortunes are now off limits for me!! Sleepless2 you mentioned Hugh as a possible good bet...what did he do and how could I find his will?
Finally, you identified John Beaton's first wife as Florie Paton, daughter of James Paton b 1772 and Jean Paterson, who married 29 November 1806 and had Florie 24 October 1807; the name of Florie and John Paton's daughter Jean Paterson Beaton clinching it. I presume that this is an entirely different tree/ line of Patons from that of Captain John Paton 1614-1681 and it contains no Janet candidates along the theory that John might have married a sister/relative upon the death of Florie?
Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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Gadget, I will get John's ancesteral names ASAP.
For the benefit of all and myself is the following correct:
Up until the nineteenth century in Scotland, it was commonplace for the naming conventions listed below to be used in deciding children’s names. Many families followed the rules for year later.
Scottish, 1700 to 1800’s.
First daughter - named for maternal grandmother
Second daughter - named for paternal grandmother
Third daughter - named after her mother
Other daughters were named after other family members
First son - named after paternal grandfather
Second son - named after maternal grandfather
Third son - named after his father
This policy holds true unless one family member had more assets or a higher social standing than the other. One unique aspect of Scottish naming was if two grandmothers or two grandfathers had the same given name, two children in the same family would end up with the same name. Another practice was to name daughters after the clergyman or other important male figure.
Thanks
Lumber-Jack
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Hi Lumber-Jack
That is the strict naming convention but it did vary. My ancestors (from Kirkcudbrightshire and Dumfriesshire who moved to Wales and Canada) used the names but not in that strict order. Female children were often named after male ancestors - Williamina, Johana, etc, As stated local dignitaries and clergy's names were often used.
I've done a fair bit of research in Scotland and I'd say that about two thirds followed the convention strictly.
It broke down earlier in some families than other :-\
Gadget
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Wow, you go away for a weekend and lots happens. Well done!!
Lumber Jack the pictures are wonderful. I was thinking about Mr. & Mrs. Beaton as I was up in their neck of the woods this past Sat. (well an hour a way, but in Canada terms, that's pretty close ;D )
About the passenger lists have you searched www.olivetreegenealogy.com she has alot of old ships lists on there.
Have you checked with the Lanark History Society about any books they might have on the area? Sometimes they have old books that the small towns wrote about the people who came to the area. I know for my area we have that was for the 100th birthday, but it was done in the 1950's and has great detail about the people who came to the area. Just a thought.
I'm curious about Henry, the home child, I wonder what his real name was and what his story is. Does he have family looking for him? :'(
Karen
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Re the names of John and Janet's children. We should include the children from John's previous marriage:
William Pollock Beaton, b. 16 June 1833, Paisley (Abbey)
Jean Paterson Beaton, bpt. 4 Aug 1835, Paisley (Abbey)
If naming conventions were followed, then William would be the name of John's father.
Gadget
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Hi all,
have been following this thread with interest on the good work you all do helping,
Just out of curiosity i typed in William Pollock Beatons name in to see if there was any other tree's following this line and there is and they have John's parentage . I'm not sure how to post it or if i'm allowed to tell you were i found it.?? Am i allowed to put a link for the Tree ?? Or is that not allowed ??
Yvonne :-[
P.S I should of said i'm not sure if this is still the line your looking for but i have read so many pages i lost the plot :-\
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Hi Yvonne :D
My understanding is that you can put the link to the tree up but not copy the actual text/tree.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget,
Well here is the link i dont know if it's accurate the Tree but the info might help ??
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/pedigree.aspx?tid=3439482&pg=0
hope i've done it right ::) Yvonne ;)
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Hi again, Yvonne :)
I've just been looking at it. It has John b. 1813, Paisley, parents Alexander Beaton and Ann Craig.
They don't seem to fit Lumber-Jack's story about John being b. in South Africa :-\
Gadget
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Hi Gadget,
oh no i forgot abt that part of the story :( Told you i'd lost the plot ;D
Oh well it was worth a try ;)
Yvonne
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I know how you feel!
It's very difficult to keep it all together - a bit like juggling. I've got a good memory but I'm having to look back and forth all the time to follow the strands.
L-J - would you like me to check on Hugh Paton's will?
Gadget
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My brain is hurting.
From where did the information come that Janet Paton's husband John Beaton had an earlier marriage to Flora Paton and a son called William Pollock? It is really actually remarkable to find that if John Beaton's father WAS Alexander he did not call his eldest son or ANY of his several sons Alexander. Assuming it is a fact that Janet Paton did have a stepson called William Pollock Beaton, is it possible - in fact I can answer that straightaway and say yes it is - that the person submitting information about William Pollock Beaton to Ancestry has simply got it wrong, and given the wrong John Beaton as Dad to William Pollock.
The Ancestry trees are always interesting, as long as one remembers that they sometimes do get it terribly wrong.
In any case William Pollock's dad is likely to have been born BEFORE 1813 to tie in with Flora's age and the fact that he died 10 years before Janet Paton. It doesn't follow for sure - of course not - but it is quite likely.
I will look into possible family connections between Flora's father, James Paton, and Janet's father, John Paton, remembering all the while that there is now a possibility Janet's father was called George!.
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Interesting point re William Pollock being place in the wrong family.....although the name Pollock does show up in this family later on in Canada.
He isn't listed with Janet, John, George and Margaret on the 1841....apparently he is with another Paton family but I am not sure who as I didn't check it out myself.
Now the experts are here I feel silly even posting......cause my brain hurts as well ;D
dollylee
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Wow, you go away for a weekend and lots happens. Well done!!
I'm curious about Henry, the home child, I wonder what his real name was and what his story is. Does he have family looking for him? :'(
Karen
Ship Waldensian
Left Glasgow: March 22, 1882
Arrive: Halifax: April 7, 1882
Passenger: Henry Gilchrist, age 4, sex m
No final destination given. He is with 73 other Home Children.
Off to look for the actual image but this could be him.
dollylee
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My brain is hurting.
From where did the information come that Janet Paton's husband John Beaton had an earlier marriage to Flora Paton and a son called William Pollock? It is really actually remarkable to find that if John Beaton's father WAS Alexander he did not call his eldest son or ANY of his several sons Alexander. Assuming it is a fact that Janet Paton did have a stepson called William Pollock Beaton, is it possible - in fact I can answer that straightaway and say yes it is - that the person submitting information about William Pollock Beaton to Ancestry has simply got it wrong, and given the wrong John Beaton as Dad to William Pollock.
The Ancestry trees are always interesting, as long as one remembers that they sometimes do get it terribly wrong.
In any case William Pollock's dad is likely to have been born BEFORE 1813 to tie in with Flora's age and the fact that he died 10 years before Janet Paton. It doesn't follow for sure - of course not - but it is quite likely.
I will look into possible family connections between Flora's father, James Paton, and Janet's father, John Paton, remembering all the while that there is now a possibility Janet's father was called George!.
William Pollock Beaton and sister, Jean Paterson Beaton, are pukka births to John Beaton and Flora Paton - IGI exrtracted. It's the Ancestry tree that is suspect and most likely wrong.
The thread is a bit unwieldy but it is worth having a quiet read - it's all there.
Gadget
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PS
Dolly - your 1841 census find was pivotal - as were your various links - I've had a look at the original image - Paisley - Abbey parish, George Street :)
I'll have a look for the William Pollock Beaton shortly :)
Gadget
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The only William Beaton that looks a poss on the 1841 is this one:
Tylesland, Paisley Low
559 ED 20a
William Beaton, 33
Marrion, 38
Mary, 13
William, 8
Joseph,5
Ann, 3
Alexander, 6 months
all b. Renfrewshire
It doesn't feel convincing to me :-\
Cananyone else find him/
Gadget
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I agree the 1841 census sighting of the family is all important.
But where was William Pollock Beaton in 1841? I have tried to find him without success.
As John Beaton named his first daughter after her maternal grandmother, Jean Paterson, it is very likely that he WAS an old-fashioned Scottish-naming-pattern sort of chap and that his son William was named after his father. We should therefore be looking for a William Beaton born probably not much later than 1780.
It is also important to get a COMPLETE list of John's children by Janet Paton, since the name of Janet's father ought to come fairly close to the top, and it would be helpful to have a list of John's brothers too so as to sort Beaton names from Paton ones.
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Lumber-Jack has given the full list, to his best knowledge, of the children of John and Janet and I have added the ones that John had with his first wife, Flora Paton.
I have given the only William Beaton that I can find on the 1841? - can anyone else find another one. Searching can be done for free on Freecen.
It might help if we all look for the children.
This is a combined search.
Gadget
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Thanks Linda and the story keeps coming with a response from Darlene from which I have excerpted so that we can all be kept up to speed:
"On the 1841 census of Scotland, Abbey Paisley, John Beaton's 1st child
William Pollock Beaton is living with the Paton family close to where
John and Janet Beaton were living. "
I can't find anything either Gadget....not that that says much lol
Perhaps if Darlene reads the thread she can direct us....or L-J could get in touch with her and ask her??
dollylee
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The William and Marrion that I found are living in the same area as John and Janet - I'll go look for Patons and use some units and look at the census image. Problem is that the 1841 doesn't give much info :-\
Did he get to Canada?
Gadget
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What about the baby boy that died on the ship, could he have been named after Janet's father. I don't rememeber if his name was found out :-\
K
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I think Lumber-Jack said that it was John b. 1843, Karen :-\
or did I dream it :)
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I think Lumber-Jack said that it was John b. 1843, Karen :-\
or did I dream it :)
Gadget you're correct see page 5 reply # 63 ;)
Brilliant thread, although must admit I'm lost :-\
Susan :)
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Think I'm starting to hallucinate, Susan. Will there be questions at the end ;D
Lovely drawings, aren't they :)
The only drawings that I've got of my ancestors are the charcoal ones I did from old photos many years ago :-\
Gadget
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Doing a great job as usual Gadget............... it takes a Scotland expert like you to know all the places to dig.
Been following but not contributing ---- you lot are doing so well I thought I'd just leave you to it. ;D ;D ;D
Karenlee
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My last thought before retiring :)
There might be something in the Stewarton MIs. If John Paton left £196 in 1829, I'm sure a tombstone would have been erected.
Maybe Lumber-Jack could put a request on the Ayrshire board asking if anyone has access to them and could do a look up for him - death January 1829.
Gadget
(too busy to add to YTG, Karen ::) )
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I still have waaaaaay to much time on my hands Gadget......... recovery process long and slow. Still, stuff like this is keeping me from going nuts.
Karenlee
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Here's a birth registration......
William Pollock Beaton
Date of birth: July 20, 1879
Father: George Beaton
Mother: Isabella Riddell
Occupation: Farmer
Reg. No. 019668
County of Muskoka
Karen
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That looks so good, Karen 8)
Have you found the family on any censuses?
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Well folks, I am getting dizzy too and have not had time to absorb all the postings of today because my dog ate the top off a lamb bone and ended up with a blocked bowel which cost me $3000 to unplug!
But I thought it important enough to post this which I just got from Darlene:
William Pollock Beaton born 16 June 1833 Paisley Scotland
On the 1841 Census , Abbey Paisley, William is living with his grandmother and aunts at
# 8 Abbey Close not to far from the John and Janet Beaton and baby George.
The family is listed as:
Paton, Widow age 50
Paton, Elizabeth age 18
Paton Jean age 18
Paton Catherine age 14
Paton, Ann age 12
Paton, Annabelle age 10
Beaton, William age 6
This is the widow of James Paton and her name is Jean Paterson Paton.
Elizabeth Paton and Jean Aitkenhead Paton are twins born 9 August 1818.
Catherine Dick Paton is 14 born 24 December 1820.
(Catharine Dick Paton married Robert Allison 29 October 1857 and died 22 June 1861 in Paisley-her parents are listed on both the marriage and death certificates as James Paton and Jean Paterson)
Flora (Florie) is the 1st child of James Paton and Jean Paterson born 24 October 1807.
Flora is John Beaton's first wife.
So far as yet I can't tie in Janet Paton and Flora Paton.
Back soon with a review of status. Thanks, Lumber-Jack
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G'day All,
I still think that my earlier suggestion on Janet Paton born and baptised in Gorbals in 1817 is a very good possibility, given that "our" Janet paton married in Gorbals - and birth dates get muddled over time, particularly when people were illiterate.
This Janet has a father Robert Paton - probably Robert George Paton born in Gorbals in 1777 to George Paton and Helen McGee.
The names Helen/Ellen and George are used by Janet and John for their elder children, I know it is not precisely following conventions but there are various reasons for not doing so, inlcuding the recent death of a relative etc. If our Janet's father is Robert George then using George for the first son of the second mariage makes it a pretty good match I think. Gorabls is not all that far from Paisley as well.
My ealier post information on this Janet Paton was as follows:
"There is a Janet Paton born 18th July 1817 and baptised 31st July 1817 in Gorbals, Lanarkshire, her parents were Robert Paton and Jean Inglis who were married on the 6th December 1813. I haven't found any siblings for Janet but they may have been baptised in nearby church as this was an area with a rapidly growing population due to the development of factories in this period. This Janet's father is probably Robert George Paton, born 18th May 1777 and baptised on the 28th May 1777 in Gorbals. His parents are George Paton and Helen McGee. I've found three other children for this couple, Robert born 1771, Barbara born 1774 and George, born 1775, all baptised in Gorgals.
I haven't found anything on Jean Inglis."
Regards,
Marg
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I promised that I would try to do review of the recent postings....here goes though like many of you I find it hard to keep it all in perspective.....lists are not conducive to drawings of family trees! When all of this is over , or as over as I am willing to go(!) I will write it up and post a link for you all to access.
Sooooo:
We have been trying to apply Scottish naming protocols with mixed success.
John Paton's parents are Hugh Paton and Mary Brown, his wife Margaret Dickie's are likely Adam Dickie and Mary Cunninghame ( thanks Gadget). Note that this is not the same Mary Cunningham who is the second wife to that John Paton who was born in 1701.
But John Beaton does not seem to have followed strict naming tradition and used either Hugh or Adam in naming any children in either of his marriages to Flora or Janet. Checking with Darlene, the names of John Beaton's parents remain unknown despite very extensive searches of East India Records, British Army Records, burials and births at sea remembering that his father was buried at sea and John was born on the South African Cape. Could they be William and Jean if John followed tradition and named his first children with Flora Paton after his father and her mother......we have now established those children to be William Pollack Beaton and Jean Paterson Beaton. We also have located William in the 1841 census living with his Paton grandmother and aunts.
John Paton was a wright/blacksmith and Margaret's small will is unlikely to have been the inheritance referenced on the original "Janet" charcoal ( thanks Gadget). It is now most likely that it is this Margaret Paton( nee Dickie) who is cited as living with the Beaton's in the 1841 Scotland census.
Yes it was John Beaton who died during the Atlantic crossng in 1842...I am trying to locate the burial in Quebec and discover the ship "Renfrew" ( the Olive Branch Site has not yielded much so far).
The history of the adopted son Henry Gilchrist, the home child, is a real Canadian story which will have to wait for later.....the British Isles Family History Society of Greater Ottawa (BIFHSGO) has done a magnificent job of documenting the home children and that is where I would go to first.
I must post on the Ayrshire Board for a Stewarton tombstone erected to the death of John Paton January 1829.
Nagging in the back of my mind is the editor of janet's obit seemed to know more than he published.
We actually still have not absolutely proven who Janet Beaton/ Paton's childhood family really is unless someone can challenge me on this assertion. A familial link to Flora would be very helpful. A will of a known Paton ( like Hugh's, though I still do not know what Hugh Paton did to make a lot of money) which names Janet or a known relative of hers in Canada ( remember the lawyer who supposedly claimed his share) would be pretty conclusive.
Marg's Janet Paton born and baptised in Gorbals in 1817 has a strong naming convention basis which I cannot yet rule out.
That's about it....hope I have not missed anything significant. Thanks again for all the sleuthing! Lumber-Jack
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Morning Everyone :)
One thing that we might not have investigated is the cousin (a lawyer) who went back to claim the inheritance.
If we take 'cousin' here to mean an offspring of one of Janet Paton's parents' siblings rather than a more lose definition of 'a relative of same generation' that was often used, then it could be a Paton, a Dickie (if that was her mother's name) or, if we're unlucky, the descendant of a female whose married name could be anything :-\
I'm away for most of today, so won't have much time to spend on any searches.
Gadget
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Hi All
SP shows the following Wills for Hugh PATON. Which area of Scotland are we contemplating being right for this family?
Karenlee
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Renfrew(Paisley)/Lanark/Ayr, I think, Karen :)
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In that case then :-
PATON Hugh 18/02/1875 Farmer and Spirit Dealer at West Ferry Paisley Sherrif Court
PATON Hugh 29/04/1863 Bottler and Spirit Merchant in Kilmarnock Ayr Sherriff Court
PATON Hugh 01/12/1834 Innkeeper in Kilmarnock Ayr Sherriff Court
Looks like a long line of Hugh's in the wine and spirit business..... I wonder.
Which one should I take a chance on and look at do you think??
Karenlee
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None of them look very promising, Karen - certainly not fortune material :-\
Hugh was John Paton's father so it would be much earlier.
Are there any other Patons in Stewarton post 1843, not necessarily Hugh?
Gadget
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I've been having a little furtle around looking for a possible birth/baptism for Flora Paton. I'm wondering if the surname got truncated because I've found an interesting one and the daughter was Jean Paterson Beaton:
bpt. 3 March 1816, Gorbals
Flora Paterson. Parents: John Paterson and Sarah Sinclair
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There is only one PATON in Stewarton was Matthew dated 07/06/1898, a teacher, intestate. Probably no fortune there either I would think.
Karenlee
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I'm going back to the beginning :-\
This same Janet was heir to Patton thread fortune in England but refused to cross the ocean again to claim it. Another relative in Canada ( a lawyer) made the return voyage and claimed his share"
The Paton thread link has already been shown as doubtful - can't remember which message - Re the Alloa Patons
Have we found out who Howard Mac was?
I've got to dash now!
Gadget
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Gadget, aren't we getting very close to Marg's alternative theory with your find of a Flora in Gorbals in 1816? I am now off to the vet! Lumber-Jack
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I'm not sure how many of you have looked further at the Anc*y tree that Dolly put up.
The Hugh Paton. b. 1806, Stewarton looks very interesting - a carver and gilder to the Queen (Vic :) ) and died Edinburgh 1864. Hugh Paton & Sons in Trade Directories. He did have a fair number of children so I don't think it would be a source of any inheritance.
Children:
Helen - 1827
John Govan Stewart - 1830
George Lindsay - 1832
Adam - 1836
Hugh - 1837
James - 1839
Margaret Victoria - 1840
David - 1842
William Campbell - 1844
Jane - 1847
Eliza Lindsay - 1848
Robert Symington Grieve - 1849
Walter Francis Scott - 1852
http://awt.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=l-61841&id=I3543&ti=5538
The Janet Paton b. 14 Sept 1819, Stewarton (that I favour) and Hugh's sister is so close to the birth date that was stated in the Obit - 15 Sept 1820.
I'm hoping that the Stewarton MIs will come up with some evidence of Margaret Dickie's death.
Gadget
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Maybe something or nothing but Hugh's sons, Adam and David , were printing machine makers in Leeds (listed in White's Directory 1870). Died - 1893
http://awt.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=l-61841&id=I3556&ti=5538
Gadget
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Has anyone checked the Canadian Census for a PATON born Scotland, occupation of Lawyer?
I only have the 1881, and that may be too late.
Karenlee
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Okay Gadget, after a serious re-read of the whole topic......... boy what a task that was............ I think that I am inclined to agree with your line of thinking. The Stewarton family looks the most likely......... but does that then eliminate the family fortune story, as they don't appear at first glance to be overly wealthy....
Karenlee
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The 1871 UK Census shows Adam PATON as a Tool Maker Employing 32 men and 6 boys. That doesn't sound like a small operation though, to have that many working for you.
Karenlee
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Yes - that's the family that I'm interested in now, Karen - if you click on that line you'll see that the sons seem to have various occupations - one was a piano maker!
They were also in the Leeds area - close enough for a mix up of the names with the Paton & Baldwin company.
The fortune story, I'm taking with a pinch of salt - how many little stories have we all found to be only half true in our own lines :-\
Gadget
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Yes Gadget, I have been trying to find as much as possible about them in the hope that something will click.
Karenlee
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Did find this :-
Hugh Paton 1827-1867, Hugh Paton & Sons 1869-1892. At 21 Horse Wynd, Cowgate, Edinburgh 1827-1829, Horse Wynd, College St 1829-1839, 72 Adam Square 1840-1853, 10 Princes St 1854-1861, 40 Princes St 1857, 9 Princes St 1862-1867, 115 Princes St 1868-1884, 122 Princes St 1884-1892, 5 St James Square from 1893. Printing office and workshop at other addresses 1854-1892. Stationer, printer, printseller, carver and gilder.
Hugh Paton (1806-63) took a full-page colour advertisement in Gray's 1833 Edinburgh directory, giving his address as 25-27 Head of Horse Wynd, and featuring among other products 'the very best prepared Canvass, Pannels, & oil Colours in bladders, the Cheapest in Scotland'. A labelled canvas has been recorded, 1864.
Paton held appointments to the Duchess of Kent and the future Queen Victoria from 1836, later calling his premises the Royal Repository of Fine Arts. The business had an account with Roberson, 1850-81 (Woodcock 1997), trading as Hugh Paton, Hugh Paton & Sons and Hugh Paton & Son, from 10, 9 and 115 Princes St. Hugh Paton was recorded in the 1861 census living at 35 Tower St, Duddingston, Edinburgh, as a printer, carver and gilder, employing 33 men, with three of his nine children apparently working in the business. He died in November 1863. His will is recorded in 1864 (Scottish Documents).
Hugh Paton's widow, Jane Paton, advertised, following the death of her husband, that as from 1 January 1869 she was retiring from the business which would in future be carried on by her two sons, Chalmers Izett Paton and James Paton, as Hugh Paton & Sons (Edinburgh Gazette 30 March 1869).
Sources: Scottish Book Trades Index (for the above addresses, and for advertisements by Paton).
Is this the same family I wonder??
Karenlee
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I had bookmarked this post because of the Paton name...I grew up in a family wholesale retail textile business and we sold Patons & Baldwin products and Coats & Clarke...this has nothing to do with your inquiry but I thought it was interesting.....a little bit of history about the families.
http://www.coatscrafts.co.uk/About+Coats/History/
mab
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There is quite a lot of stuff on the web regarding Hugh PATON and things he printed, sold, etc. Perhaps he was wealthier than we first thought??
I know that we have to take the whole inheritance thing with a bucket of salt............ but this guy was into some serious stuff.........and appears to be fairly highly regarded.
Karenlee
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It looks as though Hugh PATON left a Will that was 25 pages long and and Inventory 42 pages long........... musta had a lotta stuff.
Karenlee
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Good grief....these canny Scotsmen ;D
mab
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Shall I use some units, do you think Karen - most of the others died in England post-1857 :-\
Gadget
PS - I think someone else will have to do it - I'm away for a while so won't have time to transcribe it.
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I can get this one Gadget.... you got the last one I think. Should I get just the Will or just the Inventory or really splash out and get both??
Karenlee
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are they separate entries? If so, it's a bit tricky because the will will have all the interesting bits in it but the inventory will have the value of his estate ;D
Perhaps we should pass the hat around :D
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Yeah they are both separate.... on is about 25 pages the other about 42. Guess they couldn't put them together... it'd be a huge document to download. ;D ;D ;D
I will start with the Will and see who is named and then worry about the other later.
Karenlee
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Watch your eyes, Karen :-\
I was lucky with John Paton's but some of them can be awful.
Gadget
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karenlee How much is this going to cost you? This is an interesting thread, but isn't the family of any Rootschatter. The interest here is mainly curiosity to see if the writing on the picture is correct.
I think Gadget has spent enough money on this. That may just be my opinion though....but it's a strong opinion ;D ;D
dollylee
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I had one from the UK that I needed a magnifying glass and a crash course in Latin to translate..... good thing that FIL remembers heaps from when he used to work as Office Manager for a large law firm in the City........ lots of the standard phrases are still the same. Shame he's on holiday in Hong Kong at the moment. ;D ;D
Karenlee
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I looked on Scotlandspeople just out of curiosity and are there two Hugh Patons or are these documents about the same man ??? I've never looked at the wills on SP before :P None of my lot had money :)
1) Paton Hugh 09/06/1864 Carver and Gilder in Edinburgh Edinburgh Sheriff Court Wills 25 pages
2) Paton Hugh 30/10/1877 Printer and Carver and Gilder, Edinburgh, d. 26/02/1864 at Portobello, testate - Will - Edinburgh Sheriff Court Wills 5 pages
3) Paton Hugh 09/06/1864 Printer and Carver and Gilder in Edinburgh - Inventory - Edinburgh Sheriff Court Inventories 41 pages
4) Paton Hugh 30/10/1877 Printer and Carver and Gilder, Edinburgh, d. 26/02/1864 at Portobello, testate Edinburgh Sheriff Court Inventories 6 pages
....and also "Hugh otherwise Hugo....... sometime Manufacturing Chemist, London, son of the late Hugh Paton, Carver and Gilder, Edinburgh, d. 13/06/1877 at Stirling, intestate".
Also, do you have to pay to view or can you use credits...I have 13 left.
mab
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Hi mab :)
Those are the wills/inventories that karenlee was refering to.
Dont spend any credits - because its's 25 per will/etc.
Gadget
PS - I only managed 3 wills for the whole of my Scottish line - and one of those was an in-law. They did better when they got to Wales and Canada ::)
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PS - I only managed 3 wills for the whole of my Scottish line - and one of those was an in-law. They did better when they got to Wales and Canada ::)
And one is a great venue for concerts in the summer in Muskoka ;)
Karen
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Thank you all for the Hugh/ will search.....I just got back from the vet and was able to follow thread quickly before I have to leave again. But I thought it very important for me to state that it has never been my intation to ask friends on RootsChat to spend hard earned credits. This is my search and I should pay......and decide when to stop! Darlene never asked me to get into this and at a stage soon, I will hand the file back to its rightful owner with the remarkable progress we all have made on it after I felt the need to track down the history written on the back of the charcoal which I have promised to write up and make available. I am beginning to doubt that we will get much further....we have two lines of Paton's as Janet's ancestors; we know the story of the death of the child and I will post when I find his burial : and we are sceptical about any inheritance which is unlikely to have been considerable. Please don't spend more money on my behalf......more clues are of course always welcome and an indication of where I go to pay to read a key document would be useful.
I hope I have not poured too much cold water on this thread....but there come's a time......and we have solved at least half the mystery eventhough she my not have been a truely grieving heiress! Best wishes and thanks to you all, Lumber-Jack
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PS - I only managed 3 wills for the whole of my Scottish line - and one of those was an in-law. They did better when they got to Wales and Canada ::)
And one is a great venue for concerts in the summer in Muskoka ;)
Karen
And the good news, Karen, is that I hope to get to visit Tom's town next year :D :D :D
Might even get as far as Dolly 8)
Gadget
PS - and even more advanced warning - I might be over there for 3-6 months in 3 year's time. Just giving you all advanced warning so that you can all take long vacations ;D ;D ;D
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(think I will start packing.......I feel the need to move) ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
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If , as I suspect, Gadget you are planning several possibly even extended trips to Canada, would you please post them in advance so we are forwarned....I just might want to go to the UK and search for my Sussex and Geordie forbears! Just kidding....thanks for all you have done for me ...Lumber-Jack
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Morning all
Okay Lumber-Jack and dolly...... I have not yet gotten those Wills off SP, and will wait until Darlene can be appraised of where we are up to and see what she thinks. See mab's post for the details of the two Hugh's.
Mab --- with your post you will find that #1 and #3 are the same person ( one entry for the Will and one for the Inventory ) and the same for #2 and #4.
It has been such a thrill to help out in this search, I have learned a lot about Canadian and Scottish resources, where to find them and how to use them effectively, and for me that has been a bonus. I can now use my new found knowledge for my own and others benefit.
Whenever you feel it's time to wind this up Lumber-Jack, go right ahead.
BUT just let us know if you ever need us to help out again --------------- I know I'd be more than happy.
Cheers
Karenlee
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Me too LJ.......don't worry I have no problem with paying to get the records........not a problem ;D......but as Karenlee says it's up to Darlene and you.... :-\
Karenlee......I totally got it that #1 and #3 are the same person but who is the other guy ??? Oh well ...I'll leave it at that... ;D
mab
p.s. for Gadget....if you are in T.O. I'm sure Genie and I would love to have dinner with you ;D
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Hi RootsChatters,
As a sequel to the Janet Beaton/Paton story some of you will recall that Janet and John adopted a homechild called Henry Gilchrist (Beaton).
He was born 15 May 1878 Greenock Scotland , Taylors Close, as the illegitimate son of Mary Gilchrist, formerly a domestic servant.
A little "Birthday Book" date book of his in the possession of his living daughter Ethel has written in the side cover :
"Hendrey Ghilchrist, from his mother
God is love
March 21 1882
written on December 25th Mrs. Ghilchrist"
I find this most moving. It is signed by his mother December 25 (maybe the Xmas day before he was admitted to the Marchmont Home system on the 30th of Jan 1882?). But the reference to March 21 1882 is the day before we know from records that he set sail for Canada on 22 March 1882 (on the St. Andrew steam sail ship at age 4 as the youngest of a party of 74 children) and the last time she may have seen him. How could she have signed it in December and referenced the following March? I suspect that it is December 25, 1883! She may well have kept in touch with her little boy up to the last minute and possibly in Canada until he was safely adopted in 1884. She loved him deeply.
I know a lot about Hendrey/Henry/Harry's voyage and his life in Canada and am writing his story, weaving it in with that of Janet and John which a number of you have helped compile and have followed the thread under "Mystery of the Grieving Paton Heiress". The stories of the homechildren are an important part of the history of Canada which should not be forgotten.
What I am missing is any further information on his mother and her life, and his father, if that were ever posssible. Any help would be very welcome.
As always, thanks very much, Lumber-Jack
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Hey L-J
I will start having a look see when I get back from the dentist in about an hour or so.........
Great job as usual
Karenlee
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Hi L-J
I looked a while ago but there's no sign of him on the 1881 census as Henry/Hendry etc G(h)ilc(h)rist in the Greenock area - or a good hit on Mary.
I might try a different approach but :-\
Gadget
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Hi Gadget, So far only Greenock and Taylors Close. The ship set sail from Glasgow. I have emailed Darlene to derive the source of this information and will post when I get it. I will be writing to Ethel and may get more and I will try the organisation which put the party of children together . Thanks a lot for helping yet again! Lumber-Jack
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The info about Taylor's Close, Greenock is from his birth registration - I've just been looking at if - almost word for word what you quoted - formerly domestic servant, etc.
So Mary must have been at least in her late teens, I would think.
I've found four possible marriages for her in Paisley andLochwinnoch (near by Greenock) 1883, 1885 and 1888 (2). She could,of course have married in Lanarkshire or elsewhere :(
Unfortunately SP is being very slow tonight so I might have to leave any more checking until tomorrow.
There was a Henry Gilchrist on the 1881 with grandparents in Midlothian but I wasn't too sure about that as the age was a bit out - but census ages can be misleading. Maybe Darlene or Ethel might know of any possible relatives there.
Regards
Gadget
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Yes Gadget, it was from the birth registration "3 Taylor's Close " to be exact. If Mary was formerly a domestic servant, let us say presumably let go due to pregancy, then perhaps she might show up as a domestic servant on the nearest census prior to his birth date of 1878 in a more "respectable house" in Greenock? near to Taylor's Close? I am just clutching at straws! Thanks, Lumber-Jack
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Hi
On the 1881 Scottish Census there is :-
Mary GHILCHRIST aged 23 Domestic Servant in the household of George, James and Margaret CROOKSTON, New Myrtle Park, Cathcart, Renfrewshire. This Mary is born Glasgow Lanarkshire.
Not sure how far away Cathcart is from Greenock tho.
Karenlee
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Thanks Karenlee and well spotted!! Cathcart is 20 miles SW of Greenock as the crow flies ( ie (25 miles) and a suburb of Glasgow. I like that the spelling is Ghilchrist as on Henry's "Birthday Book" date book, ( though not how the assistant registrar spelt it on his birth certificate ( Gilchrist). Her age would be likely right. If this is the only Mary Ghilchrist (or Gilchrist) in this age group and occupation in this region of Scotland in the 1881 then there is a high probability it is her and she would be worth following forward in the censuses and getting her birth registration which should tell us her parentage. I doubt that she was reemployed in the family where she experienced the pregnancy but we will never know unless a Crookston descendent with some knowledge comes forward.
Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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Hi L-J
My bad...... the surname was GILCHRIST on the Census ... no H after the G ........ sorry. Couldn't find any spelled the "right " way.
I did have a look for this Mary in the next Census but couldn't see her. Guess one of the marriages that Gadget found could well be her.
I will go backwards now and see what comes up.
Karenlee
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No matter, Karenlee.....I am grateful for the looks up.....and this is likely Henry at about 4 years. Lumber-Jack
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And a thought just struck me....if we get Mary's parents' names from her birth registration and they match the grandparents who Gadget found with a young Henry Gilchrist in Midlothian we ( you both) will have cinched it! Ever the optimist! Lumber-Jack
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Checked that entry L-J, and it's just Grandmother Elizabeth and 2 Grandsons William and Henry. Will see what I can find on her and fingers crossed it might match up.
There are about 6 possible Mary's in 1871.
Karenlee
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Hi Gadget and the Karen's,
I just did some research on Henry/ Harry Beaton's wife Hannah:
Robert Ballantine (Pin # 2464033), born 1840 Lanark Township, Lanark Co., Ontario
married Margaret White Stewart 21 October 1869 Middleville, Lanark Twp., Lanark Co., Ontario
Margaret White Stewart (Pin # 2463906),
born 20 November 1850 Dalhousie Township, Lanark Co., Ontario
christened 20 April 1851 Dalhousie Township, Lanark Co., Ontario
died 21 March 1901 White, Darling Township, Lanark Co., Ontario
buried Middleville, Lanark Township, Lanark Co., Ontario
Hannah Ballatine (Pin # 2464041), daughter of Robert and Margaret, born ( born July 20, 1882) Darling Township Lanark Co., Ontario
Hannah had at least 3 sisters (Jane, Mary, Katie) and at least 5 brothers (William, Robert, Hector, Duncan, David).
Others who may have been a little older could have included Margaret, Mary Jane(Jean), Catherine, Mathew James, and Archibald
Father (to Margaret) Allen Stewart (Pin #2463866)
Mother (to Margaret) Jane Ellis Gray (Pin #2463867)
Marriage 1838 Old St. Andrew's Hall, Dalhousie Township, Lanark Co., Ontario
(Source IGI, submitter Dave ALLEN
301 - 240 Hollywood Road Kelowna British Columbia V1X 6Y9, Compact Disc #127 for Pin # references)
Father (to Robert) Duncan Ballatyne
Mother (to Robert) Margaret Hannah
(Source IGI 1991 submission to LDS)
So Harry/Henry would without a doubt have played with this very large family of Ballantine children in Darling and attended Church, Sunday School and school with them. It is quite possible that Hannah was his childhood sweetheart! But why did they wait and move to get married in Winnipeg 12 March 1915? What do you think? Was it because he waited to see if he was called to War Service which I do not think he was? Hannah got pregant with Allan very soon afterwards...born 23 January 1916. Were there rules regarding Service eligibility if your wife was pregnant? Harry would have been 37 years old...was he already too old for Service? I can find no Service records.
Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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Hi Rootschat friends,
Attached is a transcript of a Quarrier record for Henry Gilchrist:
Record from Quarrier Archives :
P234
Date of Admission 30 Jan 82 Henry Gilchrist on 15 May /82 Age 4
Person Recommending Child Ins.(pector) Berry, Turnkey P.O.(Police Office)Greenock
Illeg’t child of Mary G. who although only 27 has been going awrong for over five years. Her mother lives in Raukine’s Laud, (could be Rankine’s Land), Baillieston but father died many years ago. The boy was with her a short time but the mother removed him to Greenock where she stayed with a Mrs. Fullarton, 6 Dalrymple St who keeps a large catring and has this and other three girls leading an immoral life. M. was induced to go into a House of Refuge and wld have remained but Mss D. persuaded her to join her again and the poor little fellow was dragged though all this life of infamy and shame. Cessnock
Sent to Canada 22 March 82
Nov 83 with John Beaton Tatlock v (visited) by R.W. (Watch?). A very nice little fellow, too small to go to School so Mr. B who is an old teacher is training him at home. He was at his lessons when I called and he read out of the Testament which Mr. B uses as a text book very well. They speak in the highest terms of praise of him.
R.20 5/87. R.54/8/88. 68/43. 78/89. 42/26. 87/46. 8/73. (the meaning of these numbers unclear…either visits or measurements of child)
21 Nov 1891 Letter from matron Greenock House of Refuge asking about him. The mother is there at present. Some time ago she was in Dalbeth Refuge and Mr. McLachlan R.C.lawyer wrote several times asked that he be returned to !(the exclamation mark is in the Record)
1914 June Mc(???) Berry, Mayfield High Township Nr Greenock writes about Harry. Mother said to be in Dalbeth.
A search of the 1881 Census of Scotland found Mary Gilchrist in the Greenock House of Refuge, 9 Upper Ingleston, Back of Land, Greenock. She was said to have been born in Holytown, was aged 25 and described as a washer.
Elizabeth Fullarton in the 1881 is described as a widow aged 52 and employed as a 'broker'. In the same house (presumably at 6 Dalrymple St ) is a daughter, niece and two female servants. Broker is an ironic euphemism for madam!
Mary appears to have been in Dalbeth House of Refuge on more than one occasion. This seems to have been run by the Catholic Church and was fairly near where her mother was living in 1882. The entry of 21 November 1891 which refers to a RC lawyer asking for Henry's return, possibly refers to an argument and subsequent court case against William Quarrier when he was accused of taking Catholic children and raising then as Protestants. The case was found in William Quarrier's favour and it was subsequently made clear to whoever was responsible for placing a child in the OHS that the child would not be raised in the Catholic Faith. William Quarrier was a Baptist and invited all other Protestant denominations to preach in the Village Church. The Homes were never affiliated to any particular church.
Henry appears to have been admitted to Cessnock Emigration Home known as a Training Home for Canada on 30th January 1882. As the main part of the Quarrier organization at Bridge of Weir was operational by that date, it must have been intended that Henry be sent to Canada from the start. His mother must have agreed to this and perhaps saw it as a chance for her son to have a better life than she could ever provide for him. Children going to Canada from the Orphan Homes of Scotland were provided with a trunk containing a supply of clothes, a bible and a copy of Pilgrims Progress. Henry’s birthday book may therefore have been given to him by his mother either at Christmas or on the day before he sailed to Canada. Families were always notified of the child's emigration and were invited to say their farewells in the week before departure.
At an amazing interactive website www.iriss.ac.uk/goldenbridge on Quarriers role in child migration and commissioned by Quarrier's from Strathclyde University, the Narrative of Facts for 1882 gives touching details of Henry's Quarrier story at pages 8;12 and 26-31.
Having brought you all up to date on my news, I need help now using this information to:
Find her mother
Find her father’s death
Find her birth c1855 Holytown
Try and track that family through the censuses
See if we cannot find where she was a maid at 22 before she went “awrong”
Verify Fullarton in the 1881
Look for Mary in various Houses of refuge in later censuses 1914 Dalbeth? Mayfield High Township
Look for Mary’s remarriage/death
Any lookups and leads would be most welcome! Thanks very much, Lumber-Jack
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Fascinating stuff LJ!
;D
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Oh my, what a phrase..... " a large catring ...... an immoral life" WOW never heard it expressed quite that way before L-J.
Typical that I am about to go out for a few hours. I will check back in after dinner tonight... about 4 hours away... and see what has been done and then try and do something useful for you ------ for a change ::) ::)
Once again, great sleuthing L-J.
Karenlee
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Thanks for the kudos, but I should ackowledge the extraordinary help provided to me by Josie Bell of Quarrier's in digging this stuff out. Now to make something out of it! Lumber-Jack
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Hi L-J
I did spend a while last night having a bit of a look for Mary and her family.... could only find one Mary born in Lanarkshire around the time of our Mary... but then found her still with her mother when our Mary was apparently miles away..... so I figured not the right one.
Intending to spend a nice quiet day at home today........ had a house full of kids yesterday as it is school holidays here.......... so I can have the computer to myself and have a really good look.
Fingers crossed
Karenlee
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There is this Mary in 1901 :-
1901 Census Scotland Lanarkshire Govan
Reg # 646/3 Roll CSSCT1901/332
Royal Asylum
Gartnavel Glasgow
GILCHRIST Mary 48 Patient born Lanark
As I only have the Index, I am unsure what the original says.....
This would put her year of birth at about 1853.
Karenlee
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Maybe clutching at straws here but I found :-
1891 Census Scotland Lanarkshire Barony
Reg # 622/2 Roll CSSCT1891/222
Convent of the Good Shepherd, Refuge or Home of the Good Shepherd and Reformatory School for Girls
Dalbeth London Road - Glasgow
GILCHRIST Mary aged 40 Inmate of the Refuge born Bothwell Lanarkshire
Karenlee
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Checked the 1881 Census and have found the address Langloan Rankines Land, Old Monkland Middle District Lanarkshire.
But no GHILCHRIST of any spelling....
There was also a Rankine's Land address in Stirlingshire.
Karenlee
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Good go at it Karenlee...I wish I could help but I've lost the plot...sorry :P I need to go back and read from the beginning again. By then you will have probably found everything ;D
mab
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Thanks very much Karenlee, the Dalbeth reference is spot on ...I am sure that one is our Mary....I suspect the Royal Asylum is too but I too do not know how to access the detailed record. Don't know what to do about Rankine's but Baillieston ( a "suburb" of Glasgow) may hold the search clue. Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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Not likely mab..... read on please do....... I need all the help I can get...... in more ways than one. ;D ;D
I am currently looking for our Mary in the early census. Trying to find a Mary with both parents in 1861 but only with mother in 1871 just to try and eliminate some....... but with little success,
There is a Mary born Holyton that I am chasing at the moment..... come join the fun
Karenlee
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Hi Karenlee: Remember that Mary's birth place could be Bothwell and not Holyton according to your 1891 census find. L-J
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The Mary born Holyton looks like a no go at the moment, given the information that L-J posted earlier regarding our Mary's parents. This Mary was born Holyton about 1849 to Alexander and Janet GILCHRIST, but both parents are still alive in Ayreshire up to and including the 1901.
Still looking for the one from the 1891 I found earlier born Bothwell
Karenlee
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The only Mary GILCHRIST on the 1861 from Bothwell is................. daughter of Alexander and Janet born about 1848.............
Had to check the map after finding that ........ and Bothwell and Holytown are not that far away........ so this could be fun......NOT
Karenlee
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Well Done Karenlee!!!!! I think that you have just proved that Mary lied to Inspector Berry about her father in order perhaps to paint an even bleaker picture of the future for Henry so that he would be admitted to Quarriers and not sent back to her parents or she had problems with her father which may have led to her subsequent difficulties and she did not wish to acknowledge his existence. Speculation and we will never know.....but your frustrating search has been very worthwhile and I am very grateful. I would welcome the census references for her parents and a birth record for her if you have them. Now to find when she died. Thanks for such great work....Lumber-Jack
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This poor Mary just keeps getting older... a check of the Baptisms shows Mary GILCHRIST dau of Alex and Janet bapt 1847 Bothwell Lanark.
Pretty sure now that she is not our Mary
There is a Mary GILCHRIST born 1855 in Glasgow Lanarkshire 9.20pm July 22. South Linridge Lanarkshire, parents Thomas GILCHRIST a Farm Overseer aged 47 years born Cantie? Parish of Torphrichen? Mother Barbara GILCHRIST maiden name WILSON, aged 38 born Bathgate. Her 10th child. 1 boy and 8 girls living. Parents married Feb 1839 in Bathgate.
Most likely contender so far. Will see what comes up on the census using this information
Karenlee
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This Mary's parents are still together up to and including the 1901 Census.
See .......... told you it'd be fun mab....... ;D ;D
L-J, like the theory, but not sure which Mary best fits now. I know the first one is right in terms of birthplace but birth year appears to be too far out, whereas the second Mary is right in terms of age but birthplace is just Glasgow.
Hmmmm what do you think now?
Karenlee
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Moving kind of sideways....
1881 Census Scotland Renfrewshire Greenock
ED8/Reg # 564/1
6 Dalrymple Street
FULLORTEN
Elizabeth Head 52 Broker born Greenock Renfrew
Margaret HIGHERTY 32 General Servant born Greenock Renfrew
Ellen LAGUERA 28 Daughter? born Greenock Renfrew
Jessie STRUTHERS 16 Niece General Servant born Greenock Renfrew
Daniel BAIRD 16 Servant born Greenock Renfrew
1891 Census Scotland Renfrewshire Greenock
ED1/ Reg # 564/2
24 Dalrymple Street
FULLERTON
Elizabeth Head 80 ( maybe should be 60 ) Restaurant Keeper born Greenock Renfrew
Ellen LEGUIRA Dau 40 Daughter General Servant born Greenock Renfrew
William DUFFY 30 Boarder Holder Up Shipyard born Greenock Renfrew
Malcolm DOW 6 Great Grand Son born Greenock Renfrew
Alex DOW 5 Great Grand Son born Greenock Renfrew
Malcolm and Alex are the sons of Malcolm and Jessie DOW or DAW of Greenock.
In 1901 Ellen LEGUIRA is running a boarding house in West Breast Street..... is that address a hint as to the real source of income for Ellen? ;D ;D
Still trying to link both Ellen and Jessie to Elizabeth
Karenlee
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This is a pickle! A key might be in the address she gave for her mother to Inspector Berry. I have put it under a magnifying glass and it could be Raukine's or Rankine's Lane of or at Baillieston. Baillieston , Bothwell and Holytown form a small triangle with Bothwell closer to Baillieston which in turn is closer to Glasgow centre. Was one of them the birth registration recording district? Where is or was South Linridge with respect to Baillieston? If there is a strong geographic distinction, we could have an answer. (Another wilder possibility is that Alex and Janet had two Mary's , one dying as a newborn but christened and replaced by ours later whose christening we have not yet found!) She was also under great stress when she gave her age as 27 to the Inspector in 1882...but you are right ...Mary of Bothwell/Holytown is getting too old.....or was it another lie of job necessity from a confused and sick woman......she was somewhat consistent about her age in later census references. But then she was getting older and perhaps no longer felt the need to lie about her age as she was failing or not wishing to keep her job in her particular line of work. I do not think that I have helped much! BUT wait a minute... the Quarrier report cites receiving a letter from the matron of the Greenock House of Refuge with the mother(Mary) present asking about Henry on 21 Nov 1887 which says that she was in the Dalbeth Refuge "some time before" 21 Nov 1891. So too was "Bothwell Mary" the only Mary Gilchrist in that refuge in that census, and may be again in 1914. Bothwell Mary (or her baby sister) must be ours. Do we have a census record close to 1914 for her? L-J
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I meant 29 Nov 1891 as the first reference in my last post...getting late. Thanks for the Fullorten lookups Karenlee...I guess Jessie Dow is a married Jessie Struthers, Elizabeth's niece. L-J
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Hey L-J
On the 1881 Census Rankine's Land and Rankine's Land Attic are enumeration districts for Old Monkland Lanarkashire. No idea where though.... not much help with that, sorry.
Baptism records for a Mary GILCHRIST around 1850 ish as follows......
1 18/07/1847 GILCHRIST MARY ALEXANDER GILCHRIST/JANET HOWISON FR793 F Bothwell /LANARK 625/ 0030 0366
2 18/08/1850 GILCHRIST MARY THOMAS GILCHRIST/GRACE HAMILTON FR1863 F Lanark /LANARK 648/ 0060 0325
3 13/07/1851 GILCHRIST MARY JOHN GILCHRIST/MARION EDMOND FR3743 CHILD 1 F Barony GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 622/ 0140 0271
4 14/04/1854 GILCHRIST MARY ROBERT GILCHRIST/JANE DALZELL FR6496 F Glasgow GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/001 0390 0554
The first on that list is the one that I followed up on because she was born Bothwell. So far she is the only one with a birthplace that matches any of our existing information. The birth I posted earlier was because of the birth year, and the fact that it was Lanarkshire too. Since then I have checked on the location and found that Shotts... which is where South Linridge is located... is quite a way from Bothwell etc. So maybe not our Mary despite the birth year.
The last census taken and published for Scotland is the 1901 ... and I found one Mary in refuge there earlier.
Karenlee
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L-J ----- great picking up on the Jessie link...... I missed that one.......... WAAAAAAY to obvious. ;D ;D ;D My mind is looking beyond the obvious and searching for the obscure at the moment. ;D ;D
Got a list of the Mary GILCHRIST deaths from 1914 to 1935, there are a few likely ones. Will post next time.
Karenlee
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With the baptisms from above.....
Thomas and Grace GILCHRIST... I tracked them until 1871 and then it appears that Grace dies and in 1881 Thomas has a new wife Charlotte.. they seem to stay around Govans. Doesn't seem likely to be our Mary's parents.
John and Marion GILCHRIST......... not found with a daughter Mary at all. There is a Mary with a John but no mother in 1871. So probably not ours either.
Nothing useful yet on Robert and Jane GILCHRIST.
Karenlee
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Yes and if she was telling the truth to the Inspector my betting would be on Robet and Jane, but if it turns out to be them then how do we explain the Quarriers references I talked about earlier which seem to confirm Bothwell Mary? If it is not Robert and Jane then by elimination we are left I suppose with Bothwell Mary and my theory of her lying to the policeman about her age as well as her father's early demise! or we ( you!) have not found her which is getting to be unlikely given that the search has covered the censuses and the baptismal records. Deaths may help too. L-J
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I will track the Bothwell Mary and see what everyone else makes of her....
Baptism 18/07/1847 Bothwell Lanarkshire to parents Alexander and Janet nee HOWISON
1851 Census Scotland Ayrshire Auchinleck
ED2/ Reg # 577/ Page 6
GILCHRIST
Alexander Head Marr 34 Flesher born Libberton Edinburgh
Janet Wife Marr 29 born Carronshore Stirlingshire
Elizabeth Dau Unmarr 4 born Bothwell Lanarkshire
Mary Dau Unmarr 3 born Bothwell Lanarkshire
James Son Unmarr 1 born Bothwell Lanarkshire
1861 Census Scotland Ayrshire Auchinleck
ED3/ Reg # 577/
Main Street
GILCHRIST
Alex Head Marr 42 Inn Keeper and Flesher born Libberton Lanarkshire
Janet Wife Marr 38 Inn Keeper and Flesher's Wife born Old Monkland Lanarkshire
Elizabeth Dau Unmarr 15 Servant born Bothwell Lanarkshire
Mary Dau Unmarr 13 Scholar born Bothwell Lanarkshire
James Son Unmarr 11 Scholar born Bothwell Lanarkshire
Janet Dau Unmarr 9 Scholar born Bothwell Lanarkshire
Andrew Son Unmarr 7 Scholar born Auchinleck Ayrshire
William Son Unmarr 5 born Auchinleck Ayrshire
Alexander Son Unmarr 3 born Auchinleck Ayrshire
Janet Dau Unmarr 1 born Auchinleck Ayrshire
Mary HOWIESON Serv Unmarr 19 Domestic Servant born Old Monkland Lanarkshire
1871 Census Scotland Ayrshire Sorn
ED10/ Reg # 613
Stewart Place
GILCHRIST
Alexander Head Marr 55 Coal Miner born Libberton East Lothian
Janet Wife Marr 50 born Carron Stirlingshire
Mary Dau Unmarr 22 Domestic Servant born Holyton Lanarkshire
Andrew Son Unmarr 17 Coal Miner born Auchinleck Ayrshire
William Son Unmarr 15 Coal Drawer born Auchinleck Ayrshire
Alexander Son Unmarr 13 Coal Drawer born Auchinleck Ayrshire
Jane Dau Unmarr 11 Scholar born Auchinleck Ayrshire
John Son Unmarr 10 Scholar born Auchinleck Ayrshire
Robert Son Unmarr 5 born Auchinleck Ayrshire
John BROWN Grand Son Unmarr 1mth born Sorn Ayrshire
1881 Census Scotland Ayrshire Auchinleck
ED3/ Reg # 577
Main Street
GILCHRIST
Alexander Head Marr 64 Coal Miner born Lewistown Edinburgh
Janet Wife Marr 60 born Carron Stirlingshire
Jane Dau Unmarr 21 Domestic Servant ( lately ) born Auchinleck Ayrshire
John Son Unmarr 19 Iron Miner born Auchinleck Ayrshire
Robert Son Unmarr 15 Coal Miner born Auchinleck Ayrshire
So it seems that this Mary was at home until after the 1871 Census which would fit with what we already know about her being in the Refuge for the 1881. Note how in 1871 she gives birthplace as Holyton... that covers both bases with birthplaces that she gave later on.
Think this may be her.
Karenlee
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You rule...good research ;D
mab...going to bed :D
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Just checked the 1881 because the age discrepancy was bugging me.... Mary was 22 in 1871 but listed in L-J's notes as 25 in 1881.....
1881 Census Scotland Renfrewshire Greenock East
ED24/ Reg # 564/2
House of Refuge
GILCHRIST Mary 32 Washer born Hollytown
That's better.... much happier now that we have the right woman.
Karenlee
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Well done Karenlee, but that means that she still lied about her age to the Inspector as 27 in January 1882 OR there was a miscommunication between them. Of her, he reports: "who although only 27 has been going awrong for over five years"....I wonder if he/ they meant to say " who after 27 years of age has been going awrong for five years" which would make her 32!!! Why would she b.s. a policeman about her age to preserve her profession! I was full of it!
That's it for tonight!What a blast! Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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Yeah, bit worried about that bit too.... but then, we think that she lied about her parents --- father supposed to be dead and mother supposed to be living close to Baillieston..... so who knows what else she fibbed about. Wonder if she really had any idea of how old she was anyway? AND aren't there some diseases that ---- if she was a "working girl" ------ would muddle her mind anyway... and then of course there was always alcohol to help forget how lousy life was.
Lots of possibilities L-J.
Gotta go too... time to get the kids to the pool
See ya later, maybe while I'm out someone can pick holes in what I've done and prove me wrong...... still not sure about this Mary. ;D ;D
Anyway...
Karenlee
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Hi karenlee, mab, and others following this tortuous trail! It is morning here in Canada and my head is perhaps a little clearer. I feel badly for, even in speculation, suggesting that our Mary may have been lying a great deal and had a bad family background despite the circumstance that she found herself in when she voluntarily gave Henry to Inspector Berry. I hope history is kinder to me when reflecting on my sins!
She was doing the best for her son.
I think that "Bothwell Mary" whose family Karenlee so kindly reviewed through the censuses is our Mary and there was a miscommunication between her and the Inspector. Of her, he reports to Quarriers: "who although only 27 has been going awrong for over five years"....In the confusion and stress of the moment and remembering she is a battered woman at this point he/ they meant that after 27 years of age has been going awrong for five years. That would make her about 32 which is fully compatible with "Bothwell Mary's" genealogy.
No other Mary's in the censuses or birth records fit by age or geography despite an extensive combing of these. And Mary herself identifies her birthplaces as Bothwell and Holyton which match later census records
There is however a clue in the "Bothwell Mary" genealogy:
"Janet Wife Marr 38 Inn Keeper and Flesher's Wife was born Old Monkland Lanarkshire"
In her interview with the Inspector, Mary said that she had been living with her mother in Rankine's Land, Baillieston but father died many years ago.
Karenlee has identified that on the 1881 Census Rankine's Land and Rankine's Land Attic are enumeration districts for Old Monkland Lanarkshire.
So was Mary really referring to her maternal grandmother and grandfather in this statement. She may have been estranged from her mother and father, but more likely she did not want to burden them with Henry and was very anxious to present a situation where Henry would be accepted into the care of Quarriers. William Quarrier’s Narrative of Facts for January 30 1882 states at page 8:
“January 30 – A great many cases were dealt with at the City Home today. We took in a little boy of four, sent from a neighbouring town by a police officer. The poor miserable mother begged that the little fellow might be taken from such surroundings as she had brought herself into. She is anxious to lead a different life, and, as she stood before us, with her eye swollen by a blow from the woman who she says first led her to do wrong, we could but pray that she might be plucked as a brand from the burning. We trust that the little fellow may soon forget his past experience, and never know the depth of misery he has been taken from.”
I hope I have in the clearer light of day presented a more balanced picture. It would add additional weight to this theory if we could find a widow Howison (Janet's mother) in Rankins Land, Old Monkland, Baillieston in the 1871 and 1881 censuses. A death record for "Bothwell Mary" and the internal transcript for the Royal Asylum:
1901 Census Scotland Lanarkshire Govan
Reg # 646/3 Roll CSSCT1901/332 Royal Asylum Gartnavel Glasgow
GILCHRIST Mary 48 Patient born Lanark
may also help.
Many thanks as always.....Lumber-Jack
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Morning L-J
I have the Index to all the deaths for Mary GILCHRIST from 1915 to 1935. None have a Mother's Maiden Name of HOWI(E)SON and only about 3 or 4 have no married name. I would concentrate on those who appear to have never married.
I will go back to the list and pick them out for you in a second.
I will also check the census for a HOWISON in the right area in about 1871 or 1881.
Cheers
Karenlee
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Hi again
The IGI shows :-
Alexander GILCHRIST and Janet HOWISON married May 1845 in New Monkland Lanarkshire...... so that fits.....
There is also a possible birth for Janet :-
HOWISON Janet Christened 11 Oct 1823 Old Monkland Lanarkshire Father = Alexander HOWISON Mother = Jane NISBETT
Interestingly there was also a baptism for a Mary HOWISON ( as found in the 1861 Census with Alexander and Janet GILCHRIST :-
HOWISON Mary Christened 22 May 1842 Dunbeth Relief Church Coatbridge Lanarkshire Father = Alexander HOWISON Mother = Isabella BROUN ( BROWN ? )
That's a strong possible too given the place of Baptism.
So will search Census for either Isabella or Jane.
Karenlee
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L-J
These are the deaths for Mary GILCHRIST in Lanarkshire with no other surname ( generally means that they are single ) listed on the Index :-
1918 GILCHRIST MARY F 68 LANARK /LANARK
1922 GILCHRIST MARY F 67 POSSILPARK GLASGOW CITY/LANARK
1930 GILCHRIST MARY F 76 CARLUKE /LANARK
There is one other in Midlothian and another in Ayr.
Karenlee
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Great work Karenlee...so I guess this means that there may be two grandmas with several name combination possibilities.... Jane Nisbett or Howison;and Isabella Broun(Brown) or Howison. Also we know that mary was alive in 1919 so that leaves us with two death possibilities in Lanark/Glasgow. L-J
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Not really getting anywhere fast at the moment, the census is not showing anything useful yet, but I still have a few tricks that I can try.... maybe we'll get lucky.
Don't know how much the deaths will tell us but I will have a look at the 2 that you think are most likely.
Karenlee
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L-J
I think that I have found Mary HOWIESON in 1851..... living with her HOWIESON grandparents......
Could "Bothwell Mary" have been named after this Mary ??
If this Mary HOWIESON is sister or half sister ( it seems that they have different mothers on the IGI ) of Janet GILCHRIST, does that then mean that these are Janet's grandparents ?
1851 Census Scotland Lanarkshire New Monkland
ED8A/ Parish Reg # 651/ Page 18
Wattstown
HOWIESON
William Head Marr 55 Spirit Dealer born Palmont Stirling
Elizabeth Wife Marr 59 born Palmont Stirling
William Son Unmarr 14 Scholar born Palmont Stirling
William Grand Son Unmarr 11 Scholar born Old Monkland Lanarkshire
Mary Grand Dau Unmarr 9 Scholar born Old Monkland Lanarkshire
I will go back to the IGI and see what comes up.
Karenlee
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Okay
How's this for a good fit then :-
HOWIESON Alexander baptised 11/02/1814 Larbert Stirlingshire Father = William HOWIESON Mother = Elizabeth JENKINS
HOWIESON William married Elizabeth JENKINS 06/09/1812 Bothkennar Stirlingshire
Not found a marriage for Alexander HOWIESON and Jane NISBETT as yet though....
HOWIESON Alexander married Isabella BROWN 02/08/1835
Karenlee
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I've messed up here somewhere............ Alexander born 1814 can't be the father of Janet born 1823...... not possible.....
Arrrggh.
I think it's time I stopped for a while and went and did something else.....
Karenlee
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Okay
Think I have it sorted now....
Janet HOWIESON baptised 30 Sept 1821 Bothkennar Stirlingshire to Father William and Mother Elizabeth JENKINS.
This is Janet GILCHRIST....... Mary is most likely her niece rather than her half sister....... Alexander HOWIESON is Janet's brother and Mary's father.
That make far more sense......
So ignore the Janet born to Alexander and Jane NISBETT......... that was wrong. Turns out he is Janet's uncle....brother of her father William.
Let's see where William and Elizabeth HOWIESON are in the census.
Karenlee
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1841 Census Scotland Lanarkshire New Monkland
ED7a/ Parish Reg # 651
Watston
HOWIESON
William Head Marr 49 Iron Miner born Scotland
Elizabeth Wife Marr 49 born Scotland
Janet Dau Unmarr 18 born Scotland
Peter Son Unmarr 16 born Scotland
Jean Dau Unmarr 12 born Scotland
Robert Son Unmarr 10 born lanarkshire
Agnes Dau Unmarr 7 born Lanarkshire
William Son Unmarr 4 born Lanarkshire
1861 Census Scotland Lanarkshire New Monkland
ED5/ Reg # 651/2
HOWIESON
William Head Marr 69 Spirit Dealer born Polmont Stirlingshire
Elizabeth Wife Marr 69 born Labort Stirlingshire
William Grand Son Unmarr 21 Colliery Visitor born Old Monkland Lanarkshire
William Grand Son Unmarr 5 Scholar born New Monkland Lanarkshire
Neither William or Elizabeth are on any more census.
Karenlee
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Hi Karenlee,
I have been sitting here a while with a pencil and paper trying to make sense of all your hard work.
Mary , the grand daughter in the Howieson household in the 1851 is 9 years old which is making her the oldest candidate for Mary so far I believe (b c1842)!
I can see how all the Howeison's can be tied nicely together and recognize how logically that granddaughter Mary would be Janet Howieson's neice but is not likely to be a Gilchrist. She could be a Howieson by one of the sons or some other name by marriage of one of the daughters.
We know that Janet married Alexander Gilchrist and they had a daughter too called Mary ( presumably Gilchrist) born in Bothwell and age 3 in the 1851 and 13 in the 1861....much closer to the correct age of our Mary but still not right unless you accept my 27+5 theory.
The bad news is that we cannot cinch it by finding grandmother Elizabeth howeison as a widow in the 1871 or 1881 in the Monkland/Baillieston area, which would corroborate Mary's story to the Inspector. The good news is that if our Mary is indeed Janet's daughter, then we have found a lot of relatives on her family tree!
On the death records, my bet would be on the 1922 as we have a record that says she was alive in 1919. Carluke 1930 is geographically too far away to be very credible and with her lifestyle she would have had to be lucky to live that long. PossilPark in 1922 was a pretty mean and poor district of Glasgow. Would a death record in Scotland typically tell us anything which could help us? We already know that it will say 67 years in 1922= born c 1855 which is pretty good. Anything else....kin, birthplace?
At some stage soon I must call it a day and stop depending on your help and good nature. Sometimes things are never meant to be unravelled until their time. Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
I
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L-J
You're a bit confused about my method of proving relationships etc......
Mary HOWIESON aged 9 in 1851 is the same Mary who was living with the GILCHRIST family in 1861.... it appears that she is Janet GILCHRIST's niece.
Janet HOWIESON had a brother Alexander born 1814 who married Isabella BROWN in 1835 and had daughter Mary in 1841 ish.
I still think that Alexander and Janet GILCHRIST's Mary is our "Bothwell Mary".
My intent in following up on the younger Mary HOWIESON was becuse I was trying to find parents for Janet GILCHRIST nee HOWIESON in order to find the person that "Bothwell Mary" may have refered to when she said she had family ( mother ) living Baillieston or Rankine's land area.
Janet GILCHRIST's parents were William HOWIESON and Elizabeth JENKINS. William died in 1864 and I have not found Elizabeth's death yet. Both William and Elizabeth were born about 1790 so that would make her about 80 in the 1871 census if she is still around... have not found her yet... so not sure if she is the relative we are after.
Alexander GILCHRIST -- father of "Bothwell Mary" appears to be the son of James GILCHRIST and Isabella HENDERSON. Isabella is still around in 1841 and 1851 but James appears to have died pre the 1841 Census. Isabella would have been born about 1786 so I doubt that she was still around in 1871 or 1881. .... so most likely not the relative in Rankine's Land.
Does that make it clearer?? Sorry to have confused you. I have actually drawn up a small tree so that I don't get confused when searching. It helps heaps
Karenlee
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Almost forgot.... the Mary death PossilPark is daughter of William and Jessie..... and the Mary death Carluke was daughter of Richard. So neither fit with what we've found so far......... assuming we're right ::) ::)
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LJ - Scottish death certificates can give a wealth of information including husband, both parents (if known of course) etc. The certificates can be downloaded instantly from Scotland's People.
Catch is there is a fee involved, and you have to buy a certain number of credits so unless you have other Scottish people to look for, you'll have leftover credits which eventually expire.
There may be a kind rootschatter who has a enough spare credits to look up this death or you. You can post a request on the appropriate Scottish board and include a link to this thread - I'm sure someone will help you.
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That's how I got the information on the 2 that I posted Ruskie....... I had some left over credits from one of my eternally fruitless searches for my Annie BURNIE in Scotland...........so I used them to check those 2 deaths that L-J thought most likely..... there are heaps more deaths for Mary GILCHRIST and that is assuming she didn't ever get around to marrying. ;D
Karenlee
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You're a bit confused about my method of proving relationships etc......
Karenlee
Gosh, that sounded horribly condescending.......... and was not meant to be. Apologies if it was taken as such............ Just re-read the last few messages and thought how terrible that must have read to some people.
Karenlee
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oops - I should've read more carefully Karen :-[
"Would a death record in Scotland typically tell us anything which could help us? "
I honed in on this by LJ :-[
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Hi Karenlee, no need for apologies, I found nothing condescending.....rather yor were being your usual very helpful self in what is becoming a very difficult nut to crack. And thanks Ruskie for letting me know about the content of death records. I will make an investment when we hone in on a couple but Karenlee says there are still many out there....we should keep the 1918 in our hip pocket for now. Thanks too Karenlee for shelling out on the other two!
To ease my confusion I too drew a tree! Here are my responses to your post Karenlee:
Mary , the grand daughter in the Howieson household in the 1851 is 9 years old which makes her born c1842 in Old Monkland , Lanarkshire. She could be a Howieson by one of the sons or some other name by marriage of one of the daughters. As Janet is one of the daughters and she married Alexander Gilchrist , then this Mary could have been her daughter Mary( presumably Gilchrist) but we know that she was born in Bothwell and is age 3 in the 1851 and 13 in the 1861. So the Mary in the 1851 Howieson household is a niece to Janet. (In 1882 she would be 39-40 and therefore, by age, much less likely to be a candidate for our Mary than Janet's daughter, Mary, who would have been aged 33-34 and still stretching the boundaries of probability of being our Mary who claimed to be 27, or 32 if you add 5 under my confused reporting theory).
As a neice to Janet, the granddaughter Mary in the Howeison household in the 1851 is probably the daughter of Janet's brother Alexander born 1814 who married Isabella Brown (broun) in 1835 and had daughter Mary in 1841 ish.
Given all the coincidences of presence in Refuges mentioned in the Quarrier file , the proximity of the Dalbeth refuge to her "mother's " home in Baillieston and the citations for places of birth (Bothwell and Holytown), I have to agree with you that Alexander and Janet GILCHRIST's Mary is very likely to be our "Bothwell Mary" and Henry's mother.
I therefore fully agree with your strategy to find parents for Janet GILCHRIST nee HOWIESON in order to find the person that "Bothwell Mary" referred to when she said she had family ( mother ) living Baillieston or Rankine's Land area.
Janet GILCHRIST's parents were William HOWIESON and Elizabeth JENKINS. William died in 1864 and you have not found Elizabeth's death yet. Both William and Elizabeth were born about 1790 so that would make her about 80 in the 1871 census if she is still around.
Alexander GILCHRIST -- father of "Bothwell Mary" appears to be the son of James GILCHRIST and Isabella HENDERSON. Isabella is still around in 1841 and 1851 but James appears to have died pre the 1841 Census. Isabella would have been born about 1786 so she would have been very old in 1871 (85) or 1881 (95).
So the "Baillieston Mum" candidates are getting scarce and very old.....which begins to shake my faith that we have the right Mary! And Henry's birthbook has an entry Mrs Ghilchrist 25 December....was this his Mum's birth date, christening date, gift date ( ie Xmas 1882 or 83) or the other Mrs Gilchrist who worked I believe with the Quarrier organisation?
Finally, just how accurate were Scottish census records back in say 1851....English one's certainly in the 1840s could only be relied on with +- 5years rounding.
Yes Karenlee (and others probably reading this with some dergree of compassion!) we are on the same page but the leaves are geting hard to turn. I wonder if an archivist associated with Dalbeth has any info on her? I will try and follow this up if there is a way.
Best wishes, L-J
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L-J
If there was in fact a Mrs GILCHRIST who worked for the Quarrier Organisation, it could well have been her that put the notation in the book that Henry carried with him from Scotland to Canada.... maybe she was one of his primary carers at the Institute??
I will check up on that other will for you later today..... I have to do some family stuff first... given that I spent yesterday with "Bothwell Mary" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D --- and loved every minute of it....
Karenlee
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L-J
The Mary GILCHRIST death 1918 Lanark was daughter of Thomas and Grace nee HAMILTON.
So no luck there either, and there are only 2 more possible Mary's that did not marry, one in Ayrshire and one in Midlothian. I did consider that maybe, as much of her family seemed to be in Ayrshire, she could have returned to them before she died.
But then again, I wonder if she didn't marry at some point either?
What do you think?
Karenlee
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Karenlee ,
Well we know all about Mary GILCHRIST death 1918 Lanark the daughter of Thomas and Grace nee HAMILTON.
because you already had found her baptism record:
18/08/1850 GILCHRIST MARY THOMAS GILCHRIST/GRACE HAMILTON FR1863 F Lanark /LANARK 648/ 0060 0325
and tracked them until 1871 when it appears that Grace dies and in 1881 Thomas has a new wife Charlotte.. they seem to stay around Govans. Because Thomas is still very much alive in 1882 it doesn't seem likely that these are our Mary's parents if Mary's statement to the Inspector that her father had been long since dead is the truth.
I sure hope that other RootsChatters now or later searching for rellies like Gilchrist, Hamilton and Howison benefit from this hard work of yours!
I delved into the Quarrier narrative of facts to seek out the other Mrs Gilchrist with the following result typed into my text:
She also treasures his little “Birthday Date Book” issue, which has a moving dedication on the inside cover:
“Hendrey Ghilchrist, from his mother God is Love March 21 1882”
And it includes a number of birth or christening dates with an inscription from the donor:
“Mrs Ghilchrist December 25th”
Henry’s birthday book was not standard Quarrier issue. Although there may be confusion with his natural mother, we believe the donor was Mrs Gilchrist, a Quarrier helper who chaperoned the Second Party of Children to Canada, leaving 26 May 1882 on the S.S. Hanoverian. Mr H.L.Hastings, Editor of The Christian (Boston, USA) writes in his account of that voyage in the North British Daily Mail:
“Accompanying Miss Quarrier (Isabella) was Mrs Gilchrist just returned from a mission to the soldiers at Gibraltar, whose broad Scotch “brogue” and strong Scotch sense were equally useful in managing the children, over whom she watched with loving care.”
Mrs Gilchrist probably comforted Henry while he was in Cessnock.
Henry’s natural mother probably wrote the dedication as families were always notified of the child's emigration and were invited to say their farewells in the week before departure.
So I think that red herring is off the books!
I am still pursuing the Dalbeth archives route....I wonder if our Mary is buried in St Peters.
Later, L-J
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L-J
Do you thibk it's worth my checking the Mary who died Ayrshire ...even if it's just to eliminate her as well?
I have just enough credit left for one more........ or should we wait??
Karenlee
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HI karenlee. Thanks for the offer!! I have no basis to judge it and not know what others lie out there to compare it with. So I do not know what to say. Wait a couple of days until I have had a chance to pursue the Dalbeth connection. I am off to the doc now- nothing serious . Best wishes L-J
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L-J
I couldn't help myself and I checked the Ayrshire Mary....... not her either. I think we need to see what the Refuge etc records show.... but I wonder if we are going to get much further.... or be really sure ever, that we have the right Mary.
Regardless, I believe we do....... and it's been one h**l of a journey. One I wouldn't have missed for quids.
When we finish this one........ who's next? ;D ;D ;D
Karenlee
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The Mary Gilchrist you are discussing - she was born 1847 in Bothwell, Lanarkshire to Alexander Gilchrist and Janet Howieson who married 1845 in Airdrie. Mary married George Ness Dec 31st 1874 Auchinleck, Ayrshire - he died 1877. Mary remarried 31st Dec 1880 to David Hill in Auchinleck. Mary was a mill weaver and she died Nov 1915 in Kilmarnock. The 1881 census entry in Kilmarnock shows Mary & David with his 4 children from his first marriage. 1891 census has Mary and David living without children, again in Kilmarnock.
I am related through the Howieson line.
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Thanks RobbieHL
Oh well, back to the beginning again L-J.
Karenlee
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Thanks very much RobbieHL for stopping me "barking up the wrong tree" for probably a long time! Though my faith that we had the right Mary was beginning to be shaken as the "Baillieston Mums" got too scarce and very old! And forgive me for attempting to assign to your ancestry a lady of such unfortunate circumstances.
I now have to regroup...though most will be somewhat jaded with this search by now!
Assuming that she told the truth to the Inspector, here is what I know about our Mary:
She is named Mary Gilchrist (or Ghildchrist), a former domestic servant and mother of an illegitimate son Henry (Hendrey) who was born at 5.30 am on Wednesday,15 May 1878 at 3 Taylor’s Close in the Middle Parish of Greenock, Renfrew County, Scotland.
In the 1881 Census of Scotland, Mary Gilchrist is listed as being in the Greenock House of Refuge, 9 Upper Ingleston, Back of Land, Greenock; born in Holytown, aged 25, a washer. But I also have 1881 Census Scotland ,Renfrewshire Greenock East ED24/ Reg # 564/2 House of Refuge GILCHRIST Mary 32 Washer born Hollytown! Which one is right or are there two? The first matches the age of our Mary.
In the 1891 Census Scotland Lanarkshire Barony Reg # 622/2 Roll CSSCT1891/222
Convent of the Good Shepherd, Refuge or Home of the Good Shepherd and Reformatory School for Girls
Dalbeth London Road - Glasgow a GILCHRIST Mary aged 40 is listed as Inmate of the Refuge born Bothwell Lanarkshire. This one matches the age of the second Mary above and not ours.
In the 1901 Census Scotland Lanarkshire Govan Reg # 646/3 Roll CSSCT1901/332 Royal Asylum Gartnavel Glasgow, a GILCHRIST Mary 48 born Lanark, is a Patient but is not a good age match for any of the above.
From the Quarrier Archive Records:
On 30 January 1882 Mary was 27 years old and had been in trouble for 5 years.
Henry who would be 4 on the 15 May 1882 had stayed for a short time with Mary's mother who lived in Rankine's Land (Raukine's Laud or Lane), Baillieston
Mary's father died many years ago.
Mary had moved with Henry to Greenock to stay with Mrs Fullarton, 6 Darymple Street, and three other girls in a house of dubious repute.
Mary was being abused allegedly by Mrs Fullarton and had sheltered in a House of Refuge ( presumably the Greenock House of Refuge in 1881 as per the census), but was induced to return to her sad life.
On 21 Nov 1891 a letter to Quarriers from the Matron of Greenock House of Refuge asking about Henry states that the mother ( Mary) is there at present and that some time ago she was in Dalbeth Refuge.
In June of 1914 June, Mc(???) Berry, of Mayfield High Township Nr Greenock writes to Quarriers about Henry and his mother (Mary) is said to be in Dalbeth ( Refuge).
There is a Langloan Rankines Land, Old Monkland Middle District Lanarkshire; also a Rankine's Land address in Stirlingshire.
The 1881 Census of Scotland has Elizabeth Fullarton living at 6 Dalrymple St, Greenock, a widow, aged 52, employed as a 'broker'. In the same house are a daughter, niece and two female servants.
In theory, Mary Gilchrist was born circa 1855 to a Gilchrist family living in , or near Baillieston. Her mother was still living there in 1882 and so is likely to have been there in the 1881 census. There is also an outside chance that Mary's father's name was named Henry given Scottish naming tradition. So a marriage of a Henry Gilchrist say 1840-1855 and a birth of Henry Gilchrist say 1820 in the same vicinity might be interesting. Mary likely died after 1914 after living in and out of several Refuges including Dalbeth.
So that is all we know so far!
RobbieHL, does any of this ring any old Gilchrist bells from your research?
I think some of the Archive material from the Refuges if it still exists could help. She could well be buried at Dalbeth ( St Peter's new cemetary?).
Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
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Okay
Think I have it sorted now....
Janet HOWIESON baptised 30 Sept 1821 Bothkennar Stirlingshire to Father William and Mother Elizabeth JENKINS.
This is Janet GILCHRIST....... Mary is most likely her niece rather than her half sister....... Alexander HOWIESON is Janet's brother and Mary's father.
That make far more sense......
So ignore the Janet born to Alexander and Jane NISBETT......... that was wrong. Turns out he is Janet's uncle....brother of her father William.
Let's see where William and Elizabeth HOWIESON are in the census.
Karenlee
I know that this is an old thread, but Alexander Howieson and Isabella Brown/Broun are my ancestors. If you are still working on this I'd love to hear from you. I do have some "stuff" on them myself that I would be only too happy to share.
Angie
"Tarona"
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Hi folks, I got up to find more great information on my computer thanks to you all. I too have a bead on a person on GenesReunited who may be able to help and I will try to plug some more of our info in today. Janet, bless her , lived a long time so her death does not eliminate any of the 4 candidate wills....I will wait a little longer before spending money to buy credits to view them. The newspapers may be a good move which I will have to follow up on. I think that John and Janet are buried in the Auld Kirk cemetery in Ramsey Ontario ( along with many other pioneer Scots settlers) and there is a reference book ISBN978-1-894008-39-6 by the Lanark Genealogical Society which has completely catalogued this cemetery which should confirm this when I can get my hands on a copy. I am surprised that there has not been a major piece of genealogical research on the Paton's of Tilicoutry/Alloa as they were such an important industrialist family of the time. I have to go to work now but will be hot on the trail later! Best wishes, Lumber-Jack
Greetings from the Carp Valley
I have not read all the threads of this post, but what caught my attention was the mention of the Auld Kirk Cemetery, Since I wrote a book on this very cemetery I can answer almost any question on it. Right now I can tell you there are no Patton/Paton buired in the cemetery. So what is the surname of John and Janet ?