RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: bones58 on Wednesday 28 May 08 18:56 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can anyone help me? I'm looking for a marriage for Elizabeth Trail and William Cowan c.1858 in Scoonie/Leven . ???
William was Irish and I think he came from Bangor in County Down.
Elizabeth was born in Scoonie in 1836, her parents were David Trail and Ann Meldrum. She and William Cowan had one child (Henry) in Leven in 1859 before they moved South to Suffolk.
Bones
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Hello Bones,
Elizabeth TRAIL is not a very common name and so you may be interested to read my postings about the Elizabeth (Betsy) Trail who married Alexander WESTWATER, and then how the name appeared again as the daughter of James Westwater and Margaret Danks. The family appears to have settled down around Auhterderran in Fife. As you would probably know, Leven is only a short distance away from Auchterderran, where I spent my early childhood.
Please don't be afraid to get back to me if you would want a bit more help.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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Hi Tom,
I've only recently been concentrating on my Scottish connections as I've always found it difficult to know where to look for information. Now Ancestry have put the Scottish census returns online it's helped me fill in a few gaps. Everything else I have has been taken from the LDS site.
I know Elizabeth Trail was the daughter of David as he appears on the marriage certificate for her second marriage, this helped me trace the family on the IGI, which confirmed the birthplace as Scoonie.
Not knowing Scotland at all I'm finding it difficult to relate to the different parishes in terms of distance from each other. ie, David's father James was married in Kettle but David was born in Scoonie. The IGI doesn't have a James Trail born in Kettle so I don't know where to look for him!!
Any help or advice would be gratefully received.
Bones
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Bones
A good site for maps of counties and parishes within the counties is this one:
www.scotlandsfamily.com/county-map.htm
www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-maps.htm
Hopefully help you get your bearings :)
Monica
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Not seeing a marriage on SP for them in Scotland 1855-61, and that was searching for a Wil* C*w*n and any first name Tr*l* :-\
Monica
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Hi Monica,
Thanks for the web sites, at least they will give me an idea of how close the parishes are.
I'm assuming that Elizabeth and William married in the Scoonie area as that is where Elizabeth was born and where her son Henry was born in 1859.
The 1861 census shows them as husband and wife, but she did have three children out of wedlock after William died in 1867 so possibly they never married in the first place !!
Bones ;)
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If you check Henry's birth record on SP it may give the place and date of marriage of his parents
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Sancti
Unfortunately it wasn't until the early 1860s that parents' marriage info began to be included on birth certs - pity...
Monica :)
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...Although, picking up on Sancti's point about Henry's BC, it might still provide some clues from how the parents' details were written up. Normally a married couple would show as William Cowan and Elizabeth Cowan, maiden surname Trail. If parents weren't married, but father attended the registration of the child's birth, you would expect to find that the entry showed the child as illegitimate and parents as William Cowan and Elizabeth Trail.
Monica
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Hi All,
Have just viewed the original document on SP for Henry's birth and it shows William and Elizabeth Cowan , maiden name Trail, as the parents. So this would indicate that they were married.
As I said in my earlier post, I assumed they married in the area because that was where Elizabeth came from, but according to the 1861 census, William was Irish, so I suppose there may be a possibility that they married in Ireland and moved back to Scoonie.
Many thanks for all the help and advice
Bones ;)
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Bones,
Have a look at this site on Fife.
www.thefifepost.com
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Hello again, Bones,
Although I will be continuing with details of the TRAIL family going back into the 1700's, can you tell me where in Suffolk William and Elizabeth settled?
Many thanks.
Tom.
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Hello again, Bones,
You will have noticed that I have continued with my research which coincides with your comments about DAVID TRAIL.
As I see it, David TRAIL married Ann MELDRUM on the 27th October, 1827 at Scoonie and they named their eldest daughter, Agnes Swan TRAIL who was born in August 1828 at Scoonie. One of her sisters was indeed Elizabeth TRAIL, born 12th January, 1836 and yes, she went on to marry William COWAN in 1858 at Scoonie.
You are quite correct about David's father, being James TRAIL. He married a lady by the name of Elizabeth DOWIE on the 3rd of December, 1790 at Kettle. In my latest postings, I explain that the farm where I lived at the end of World War II - Easter Lathrisk Farm explains the ancient name of the village of KETTLE. Lathrisk was the original name for the village.
Do you have any further information about David TRAIL's wife, Ann MELDRUM?
You may find it interesting that William COWAN's sister-in-law was Agnes Swan TRAIL and that she was born in Scoonie. However, you may also be interested to learn that there was also a Janet Swan MELDRUM, who was born on 7th March, 1813 also AT SCOONIE. Janet's parents were David MELDRUM and Agnes WILSON. As you can see from this, the COWANS, TRAILS, MELDRUM's and WILSON's were all living in a pretty small area of Fife and so it may be worthwhile to follow those leads.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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Hello again, Bones,
You will have noticed that I have continued with my research which coincides with your comments about DAVID TRAIL.[/color One of her sisters was indeed Elizabeth TRAIL, born 12th January, 1836 and yes, she went on to marry William COWAN in 1858 at Scoonie.
Tom.
Tom I cant see that marriage on SP, what source did you use to find it?
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I'm curious too, hunted high and low for it.... ::)
Monica :)
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Hello Monica & Sancti,
My, what a fuss about this point whilst ignoring the huge amount of work that I've done on the family! Is it really all that important to Bones? The point is, Henry COWAN's birth was certainly not illegitimate. His parents were certainly married at the time of his birth in Scoonie.
I note how you have such a strong reliance on S.P., and although I have the greatest respect for the site, it certainly isn't infallible. There are other sources which, in contrast to the IGI, contains entries extracted from original sources - but I'm sure that you would both be aware of that.
I am currently examining such a source very, very closely, and I'm quite surprised at the wealth of detail. I certainly don't wish to enter into a discussion about how I work, especially since I want to do much more work on it. If Bones is happy with what I'm doing, why the fuss and splutter?
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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No fuss and splutter Tom, but as the marriage date falls after the date that Statutory Records were introduced I would expect it to be recorded on SP. As I can't find it there I was wondering if the names may be transcribed wrongly and I was interested in your source.
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Tom
All Sancti and I are trying to do is find official record of the marriage post 1855 in Scotland which was the query originally posted by Bones. Whilst Bones has been able to identify Elizabeth Trail's family from her second marriage in England, I would imagine she may be interested in details of William Cowan's parents and further verification of Elizabeth's parents, which would hopefully come from looking at a Scottish post 1855 cert.
Monica :)
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Hello All,
I was hoping that finding the marriage for William and Elizabeth would firstly confirm that I had the right parents for Elizabeth, to make sure I was tracing the right family, and secondly to find out anything about William, although he isn't a priority because I'm actually descended from one of Elizabeth's illegitimate children !
All the information I have on the Trail family has come from the IGI on the LDS site and I don't know how accurate this is, so I try to verify it.
To answer Tom's questions;
William and Elizabeth were in Eye, Suffolk in 1861 but by 1865 had moved to Kings Lynn in Norfolk. William was a flax dresser so this may be why they moved around. The family stayed in Kings Lynn after William's death in 1867 and Elizabeth later married William Wilkin Johnson in 1876.
There is an entry on the IGI for the birth of Ann Meldrum on 6/12/1807 which shows her parents as Robert Meldrum and Mary Gardiner.
Again this is an assumption on my part that it is the right person.
Bones ;)
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Hi Bones
I have not had any joy finding this marriage - what was the occupation of Elizabeth's father. Is it possible that the family spent any time in Ireland? and the marriage took place there? Could they have had a catholic marriage and simply not registered same? Seems unlikely as the child was registered. Did "irregular" marriages still exist in Scotland at this time? Monica may know the answer to that.
Trish
In relation to Tom's commment I would like to add
My, what a fuss about this point whilst ignoring the huge amount of work that I've done on the family! Is it really all that important to Bones? The point is, Henry COWAN's birth was certainly not illegitimate. His parents were certainly married at the time of his birth in Scoonie.
sorry Tom - most folks find that primary sources ARE important. if an 1858 marriage is NOT on ScotlandsPeople, it was NOT registered. This is a very basic fact of Scottish family research. Finding out if a non-registered marriage actually happened, is very difficult. Bones is interested in discovering this very fact - Did the marriage happen. That was the first question asked at the beginning of the thread.
The huge amount of work you posted on this thread
can be easily traced on the IGI (extracted records) in a short period of time - excluding your location at the end of WWII, which doesn't help find the marriage for Bones. I would doubt the comment about the COWANS in Fife, simply because Bones has said (and the census shows) that William Cowan came from Ireland.
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I've been reading this thread as well and have done similar searches to Monica, Sancti, Trish and Bones and have found nothing.
I think it is likely that it was either a Common law or an irregular marriage or did not take place in Scotland.
Gadget
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Hello Bones,
Many thanks for your message giving me the answers to my questions. I have been interested in the WESTWATER/TRAIL connection as you can see from my previous postings. I was quite surprised to see a few TRAILS down in the Land of the Sassenach's around the Lowestoft area whilst I was enjoyng myself with my hobby. Don't get the wrong idea about the IGI, as I don't derive all my information from that source.
As a matter of interest, are you in touch with descendants of Betty TRAIL and Alexander WESTWATER? At the moment, I'm in contact with relatives of mine here in Australia as well as Canada and the U.K. It's quite surprising sometimes when they casually come up with snippets of information that one was unaware of, and even those lovely old photographs.
Now that you seem to have a few other researchers taking an interest in your ancestors, you may be able to obtain a bit more detail.
Again, many thanks, for your response,
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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Hello again, Bones,
Isn't it amazing how my comments can be distorted. The work that I was referring to was not simply on this thread, I was talking about my postings about the WESTWATER's and other connecting families.
As I was saying earlier, the whole area around Leven, Scoonie, Buckhaven, Kettle and Kilconquhar are familiar places to me, and so, naturally enough, I'm able to write about from personal experience. Quite a few other researchers appreciate a bit of local knowledge, and it certainly helps to add a splash of colour.
A lady has sent me a personal e-mail overnight,and again, because her query involves connections with my own family, I will probably be able to fill in quite a bit of information for her whilst describing exactly where her people lived. You sure don't get that kind of information on the IGI or SP.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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Tom
While I agree with you that local knowledge, local history and stories/recollections of place are an essential part of any study of our ancestors, these must be seen as setting the scene for the vital records that form the skeleton of our studies.
These vital records - births, marriages (whatever form) , deaths, baptisms, burials are the evidence that we use to substantiate our claims.
As far as I can see, Bones asked for information on a marriage. No one has been able to find it in the official records. You have stated categorically on this thread that they did marry. Is it not then important that you give your source?
Gadget
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Hi Bones
If we did all our research via snippets of family information, there would be the continuation of the myths generated through many years, by families telling stories to cover the truth, or because they do not know the truth. I have so much evidence of this, both from my own family members - in Canada, the US, England, Scotland, NZ, SA and even Germany - almost forgetting Australia - and from the many researchers on RootsChat.
Keep searching for primary sources - especially in the days of civil registration. Back beyond the 19th century, such sources may be more difficult to come by and items such as family bibles and diaries come into their own, but check those family stories - they are sometimes more fiction than fact.
Extracted records on the IGI are a very good source of information - especially as they are available at no charge. If you live near an LDS family centre you can order the films of the parish records from which these indexes were made and see a copy of (in many cases) the original church records. Some civil records (1855-1875) from Scotland have also been indexed on the IGI. We do have to remember, however, that the IGI is an index, created by LDS members. Transcription errors can occur and looking for further verification of events is always a good idea.
Submitted records on the IGI are only as good as the researcher's sources and we really have no idea about that, when accessing the IGI. I put them into the same class as unsubstantiated family stories, or any listing or statement of an event where a source is not given. Further investigation is needed.
For those who wish to pay for the ease of accessing similar information at home :) ScotlandsPeople has images of parish records (from the Church of Scotland) for births/marriages online.
One advantage of seeing the complete parish images from the LDS (apart from cost :)) is that burials (if recorded) are included on the film. These have not been indexed by the LDS or by SP.
Trish
To respond to the last post from Tom
Family stories and knowledge are the "meat on the bones" They turn the facts into a family story, rather than a genealogical diagram. It is somewhat pointless, to have the meat, without any bones. How many times have folks spent years tracing the wrong family :-\ There are countless discussions of these issues on roots chat.
None of this discussion solves the dilema that is a missing marriage record :'( so I will attempt to stay on the subject and not be sidelined by conversations on other issues including the WESTWATER's whoever they may be.
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Tom, I'm sure everyone appreciates the work you do on Rootschat and I'm also sure that you appreciate that what makes Rootschat so successful is the sharing of information and sources to allow Rootschatters to use these sources to continue to help other Rootschatters.
I am not familiar with all the sources available online for doing genealogical searches and therefore I was interested in how you found the record of the marriage that Bones requires to move back in the family line.
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Sancti
I am truly confused - most folks who have sources are very willing to share them. I have rarely seen Tom provide a source. I have seen both yourself, Gadget and Monica provide wonderful information to other roots chatters which always includes sources. I think you have a very good knowledge of researching on the internet - please don't sell yourself short, you are a wonderful help & will say if you cannot find something, rather than assume it must exist
Trish
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Hi All,
I seem to have started quite a debate here!!
As I said in my first post, I have only recently started tracing my Scottish ancestry, so I'm grateful for any information that helps point me in the right direction.
I know from checking original records on other branches of my tree, that more information can often be obtained than is shown on the IGI and was hoping that this would be the case with William and Elizabeth's marriage. Also, I wanted to confirm that they actually married because knowing that Elizabeth had three illegitimate children after William's death, I wanted to check she wasn't just a 'good-time girl' who was free and easy with her favours !!
Being new to RootsChat, I have yet to read all of Tom's posts on the connecting families, so I cannot comment on how he works or the source of his information, but he has given me other avenues to explore and an idea of the area.
In response to Trish's questions, Elizabeth's father David was listed as a domestic servant on the certificate for her marriage to William Johnson.
Elizabeth was 23 when her son Henry was born so I imagine that there was 7-8 years when she may have gone to Ireland but the census returns show that the rest of the family stayed in Scoonie.
Bones ;)
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Hello All,
I will not be drawn into any unwanted discussion on RootSchat. I have far more important matters to deal with in my daily life. I thank you, Sancti, for your kind words, and I'm sure that Bones' reference to the connections in his family says it all. He clearly states that he hasn't had the opportunity to read all my postings about connections to his family. Need I point that out that this would include the WESTWATER's, who are unarguably connected to him through the TRAIL's. When he reads through all the postings, he may find many more connections that he's interested in.
I am perfectly happy to continue assisting people to the best of my ability, but any suggestion that the work that I do each day merely covers just a few minutes in time, is sheer nonsense. Because of my impairments, I am forced to work at a steady rate, and I'm quite happy to continue doing that. As you appear to be saying, Sancti, I try to help people out to the best of my ability. I'm certainly no expert,, or "self-expressed" expert in the field of genealogy.
Just to add a bit of a smile to the proceedings: Definition of an expert: "A drip under pressure".
Again, any further attempts to involve me in unwanted dialogue will simply be deleted from my computer.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
In much the same way as Bones, a person has contacted me from the United States this morning, who shares some of my ancestors.
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Hi Bones
I was hoping the family may have gone to Ireland - but it does seem unlikely from the information you currently have. It is disappointing that your first venture into Scotland did not resolve the missing marriage as Scottish records of this time are usually very reliable and relatively easy to find. My only other suggestion would be to see if you can find Church records for the time in question. A baptism for Henry (1859) may indicate the church.
The current Church at Leven (formerly Scoonie Kirk) has a website - with contact details
http://www.levenparish.org.uk/
Trish
I will continue to disagree with sourceless assertions and regret that such disagreement results in a tirade of coloured writing directed against my view, to the confusion of the thread starter. A simple answer that a source has not been found, or the detail of a source that is available, is a much more useful outcome to the question.
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Bones, I suppose it is possible that the marriage took place pre 1855 outside the Established Church of Scotland and that is why it may not be available on the OPR's on SP
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Hello again, Bones,
I will refer to the interest that you have shown on this thread to the connections to the TRAILS. You stated, (and I quote): "I know Elizabeth Trail was the daughter of David as he appears on the marriage certificate for her second marriage"
Now, I did have a look at Extracted birth/christening records for not only Elizabeth, but also her sisters, Grace and Agnes, as well as her brothers, James and Andrew.
As we can see from those extracted records, we're looking at a time period of around 1828 - 1839.
I have always maintained an interest in legal matters and so, a while ago, I was looking for some information about an early form of Legal Aid and appear to have found it when the Sheriff Courts in Scotland appointed a Procurator for a woman if she couldn't afford the cost of an action against the father of her illegitimate child.
Knowing your interest in the TRAIL family, (sometimes spelt TRAILL), I had a look at a couple of TRAIL lassies and read about Grace TRAILL, who was residing at Auchtermuchty taking action against an Alexander PEDDIE. She had an illegitimate baby girl born 3rd August, 1848. Then there was a Jemima TRAIL, who came from Largoward, (not all that far from Scoonie). She took action against an Andrew DOWIE, a farm servant. She gave birth to a baby girl on 23rd April, 1836.
I'm sure that you're not all that interested in the source of information, but it is possible to look at the Extract Decree Books of various Fife Sheriff Courts such as Dunfermline and Cupar. These are held at the Scottish Record Office in Edinburgh. I obtain many pieces of information from sources like that, as well as Fife newspapers going back over the years. Indeed, it was in the Dunfermline Press that I read about the death of my Grandfather at No. 2 Pit, Bowhill. Not the kind of stuff that we get from certain sources, but certainly very informative and enjoyable. ;D
If you really want an interesting read about Aliment Decrees, then it's no big secret as to how to do it. I spent quite a few pofitable hours reading about people who lived in the same streets or Wynds as members of my family, people who worked shoulder to shoulder with them, and so on and so forth.
Although it may not be copies of documents obtainable from sources such as Ancestry, S.P., the IGI, it certainly does provide names and dates that assists me in establishing various details about my ancestors. I'm not, for one moment, decrying those sources, I'm just trying to indicate how I utilise other resources to obtain information.
I feel that maybe I should be communicating with you on another Thread, Bones, even though you have referred to the TRAILS's and MELDRUM's on this one. However, I gave my word to Pam, the Fife Moderator, some time ago, that I would try to keep my postings in the appropriate Thread, and I'm honouring my word.
If there are people out there, including you, Bones, who want to get back to details about the various branches of your family, then maybe you would care to select an appropriate Thread, or create one of your own. That way, other people who share your interest in a particular family can supply you with information quite openly. However, when information about a family becomes "sensitive", I personally choose to work in a different way, so as not to offend other family members. I think that's perfectly reasonable, don't you?
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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I have yet to meet a family researcher who is not interested in the source of information. Most of us do not have easy access to information from the Scottish archives. I have been very fortunate in the past to meet some wonderful folks from Edinburgh online who have willingly searched for a number of different items related to my Fife and Renfrew families. Quoting alternative sources for research is not the same as providing a source for a specific piece of information.
In 2008 there is very little about families in the 1800s that is "sensitive". We have all discovered family secrets, found marriages that did not happen and more illegitimate children than were ever expected to exist. Bigamy, in the days before more easy access to divorce, also was more common than many of us realised. People haven't changed very much over the past 200 years, but institutions and beliefs have altered. We now accept very openly what was once "sensitive".
RootsChat rules discourage (probably a stronger word is needed) identifying living folks on open boards. I entirely agree with this rule, but folks born in the 1800s certainly don't fit into this category.
By continually encouraging folks to discuss things "off the boards" the losers are those people who thus limit the information they may otherwise obtain.
I won't delete anyone from my computer, but continually beating my head against a wall is somewhat pointless so I can only assume, if the source of this marriage does exist, it shall not be revealed anytime soon.
Do let us know if you discover any other information Bones - it is always interesting to hear the final outcomes of RootsChatters queries :)
Trish
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I certainly agree with Trish that by sharing information by email or the Personal Message facility is denying other researchers the information that they may need to fill in blanks in their research. Verifying the source of information is very important to ensure we are following the correct line.
We have no control over the indiscretions of our ancestors 200 years ago and the way they led their lives. I certainly wouldn't find illegitimate births, bigamy or divorce a sensitive subject in my tree.
Further to some of the information Tom posted, there is mention of a few female TRAILS here
http://www.fifefhs.org/Records/cupardecrees.htm
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Hello Bones,
On Sunday, 86th June, of this year , you posted a message to me stating: "Not knowing Scotland at all, I'm finding it difficult to relate to the different parishes in terms of distances from each other, i.e. James father was married in Kettle, but David was born in Scoonie. The IGI doesn't have a James trail born in Kettle, so I don't know where to look for him! Any help or advice would be greatly received."
I believe that I did give help and advice since I'm quite familiar with the area. I'm pleased to have been of some assistance in that area.
On Tuesday, 10th June, 2008 , you were kind enough to direct an answer to me in your posting. Unlike others who seem more interested in denegrating my efforts, I have continued to work on in an attempt to assist you further rather than take any notice of the rudeness being displayed.
I am pleased to report a bit of success for you. Here it is:
In the year 1881, we find your William W. Johnson aged 59 who had been born in Cambridge and his wife, Elizabeth Cowen (note the spelling!), shown as being aged 47, which, if my mental arithmetic isn't too rusty, makes her date of birth in Scotland as being about 1834.
With them we find Elizabeth Ann Cowen, the daughter- in -law of William Wilkin Johnson living at Bridge Street Millers Yard at Kings Lynn in Norfolk. The Census tells us that she was aged about 18, meaning that she would have been born about 1863. Just as important, the Census tells us that she was born at Eye in Suffolk. That coincides with the information that you were kind enough to give me.
We also find William Cowen, (note the spelling), the son-in-law of William aged about 14, who had been born in Lynn in Norfolk. That also coincides with the information from you that stated that William Johnson and Elizabeth Cowan had moved to Kings Lynn by 1865.
Further, a David Cowen, aged about 10 is shown as the son-in-law of the Head of the Household. That would mean that his date of birth would have been around 1871. He too was born at Lynn (as stated on the Census).
Then we have a Malinda Cowen, shown as the daughter-in-law of the Head of the Household aged about 7, meaning that she would have been born about 1874, and she too was born at Lynn, according to the Census.
I'm sure that you will agree that I have kept my word in that I said I would try to assist you. I have done that, not in just a few minutes, but at a speed geared to my disability. I have done it with a good heart, and if I can continue to assist you in this manner, then I'm delighted to be able to do so.
As always,
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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On May 28, on this thread, Bones asked a question
Can anyone help me? I'm looking for a marriage for Elizabeth Trail and William Cowan c.1858 in Scoonie/Leven .
William was Irish and I think he came from Bangor in County Down.
Despite much searching no-one was been able to find any record of this marriage.
On June 10 Tom stated
As I see it, David TRAIL married Ann MELDRUM on the 27th October, 1827 at Scoonie and they named their eldest daughter, Agnes Swan TRAIL who was born in August 1828 at Scoonie. One of her sisters was indeed Elizabeth TRAIL, born 12th January, 1836 and yes, she went on to marry William COWAN in 1858 at Scoonie.
Despite being asked MANY times, where the information as to this marriage came from, Tom has only responded by providing more and more dates on other family members, contained within the IGI. He has protested that the IGI is not as good a source as other options, but it seems to be his main source of reference. I have NO issue with this fact, the IGI is a very good source of Scotland records, but it does not answer the original query - Can anyone find the marriage?
Today, Tom has stated
On Sunday, 86th June, of this year , you posted a message to me stating: "Not knowing Scotland at all, I'm finding it difficult to relate to the different parishes in terms of distances from each other ...
I am unsure if this query was a PM to Tom, or a general message on the boards. If it was on the boards, I am sorry I missed it. If it was a PM, that is a little sad, as there are many many resources to assist with the location of parishes and their distances from each other. PMs reduce the possiblity of other folks seeing your queries. Consequently there may be many resources you do not know about. I will mention just three at the minute
I use a parish map of Fife - available here
http://www.thefifepost.com/map.htm
This is linked to by genuki - great for Fife sources
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/FIF/index.htm
For distances, I use a little program called parloc (parish locator) It is freely available to download and provides
-names of all the parishes in each county of the UK
-distance between any two parishes
-names of parishes in a requested radius from a starting parish
-and a few other reports/diagrams that I use
It is great - it's on my destop and I use it all the time. e.g. If someone is born in Markinch on the IGI but the census says Leslie, you will find they are only 3 miles apart and likely to be the same person. Sometimes children are born in a nearby parish, which may be in a different county. This is also very easy to check.
You can download it from here
http://www.parloc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/parlocdl.html
Information on parish records, registers, registration districts and various other useful items are also available online and for download from the GRO Scotland website
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/hlpsrch/list-of-parishes-registration-districts.html
Any queries on these links, do please ask
Trish
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Oh dear - for someone who likes short posts - I exceeded the maximum size :o :o so had to make 2 posts. To continue
The remainder of post #34 of today appears to be an expanded transcription of the 1881 Census available on the family search site. I would prefer to provide a link to a freely available source, so you will know it is available for further use. viz
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp
On any of the England boards (England general if you do not know a county) a number of folks will instantly find you census information from 1841 to 1901. They love to do it. Tati has the record for the fastest response time. For 1881, you will usually be directed to the LDS family search as you can search this yourself. The 1880 US and 1881 Canadian census are also available on this site.
I am not vaguely interested in denigrating anybody & I take offense at the word being used. I believe that the spirit of Rootschat is to share our information and sources to the best of our ability. Stating as fact something for which a source is not given, does not lend itself to this spirit. Quoting from sources without specifying the source ignores, among other things, any copyright attached to the source. Providing information freely available on the internet, as opposed to explaining to someone where it can be found, severely reduces the ability of folks to learn how to do their own research. Helping is great, teaching, when relevant, is better.
Encouraging off board conversations reduces the knowledge and enjoyment of all. There are times when folks may not want to discuss things on the main boards - recent family events being the obvious example - but encouraging PMs for items such as Parish research and location seems very self defeating.
I love Fife and I enjoy researching in Fife - a large part of my background (albeit many years ago) is Fife related. I do not claim any type of expertise whatsoever - I am a self taught family researcher. Five years ago I was too embarrassed to ask what was the IGI, and further embarrassed when I realised my assumption that spelling was important was ridiculed by those who found my Millers masquerading as Millars. Much of what I have learnt has come from RootsChatters. Everyone brings different skills to the boards. May this continue.
I also believe short is better, so before ending this very overlong post, I will provide the "short" census description. Tells the same story
1881 Bridge St Millers yard Kings Lynn St Margaret Norfolk RG11/2000 34/24
William W Johnson head M 59 Waterman Cambridge, Cambridge
Elizabeth do wife M 47 Scotland
William do son 15 Mat Maker Kings Lynn Norfolk
Elizabeth Ann Cowen Dau in Law U servant dom Eye, Suffolk
William Cowen SIL 14 mat maker Lynn, Norfolk
David Cowen SIL 10 scholar do do
Malinda Cowen DIL 7 do do do
(The in-law description at that time was often used for step relationships)
Trish
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Hi All,
I would like to thank everybody who has contributed to this thread.
I may not have found the marriage I was looking for but each of you have given me some information that I can use to further my research into the Trail family.
I'm now going to spend a bit of time visiting the web sites you have recommended and to read through Tom's other posts and will take it from there.
Bones ;)
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"TRAIL lassies and read about Grace TRAILL, who was residing at Auchtermuchty taking action against an Alexander PEDDIE. She had an illegitimate baby girl born 3rd August, 1848"
I am very interested in this Grace Traill if anyone has any further information about her or Alexander Peddie. The baby girl was Williamina Peddie. I have been struggling with finding more about her and googling "Grace Trail Auchtermuchty" took me to this thread. What sort of action could she take against him in 1848?
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I don't know if you have this but it may help others too...
"TRAILL, GRACE: res Auchtermuchty, v Alexander Peddie, weaver there; female, 3Aug 1848;
4/26; P 132 (97)"
https://fifefhs.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Cupar-Sheriff-Court-Aliment-Decrees-1830-1854.pdf
Annie
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I don't know if you have this but it may help others too...
"TRAILL, GRACE: res Auchtermuchty, v Alexander Peddie, weaver there; female, 3Aug 1848;
4/26; P 132 (97)"
https://fifefhs.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Cupar-Sheriff-Court-Aliment-Decrees-1830-1854.pdf
Annie
Thank you Annie, I did find this yesterday. I wonder how I can find out any further details of the case. She also had a daughter Janet Brown presumably by a Mr Brown of Auchtermuchty
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May be worth an email, someone will put you right...
"Fife Family History Archives are held at Cupar Library: 33-35 Crossgate, Cupar, KY15 5AS"
https://fifefhs.org/about/contact/
Annie