RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Completed Requests => Topic started by: j.m.firth on Wednesday 28 May 08 16:33 BST (UK)

Title: Charles e firth
Post by: j.m.firth on Wednesday 28 May 08 16:33 BST (UK)
Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me find the father of Charles E Firth? He was born in Skelmanthorpe 1859/60, married to Sarah A, with children Minnie, Thomas B and Harold (1901 census). His mother is Sarah Ann?  (a widow in 1861 census), Micklethwaite? Berry?....possibly??? Thanks. Jane
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 28 May 08 17:35 BST (UK)
Hi Jane,

Have I got the correct family in 1861  ???

Living in Denby Dale .

Sarah Firth 26 something of shawls b High Burton
Matilida dau 4
Charles E  son 2 b High Burton.

If so I believe Sarah is not a widow but unmarried.

If not can you please post the full reference
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: j.m.firth on Wednesday 28 May 08 20:57 BST (UK)
Hi, Yes I think so. I think Sarah 's mother was Elizabeth Berry. She also had a daughter, Clarissa born 1855. The 1881 census lists her as being a widow. She was a shawl fringer.
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 28 May 08 23:12 BST (UK)
Hi Jane,

Well in that case if Sarah Firth was unmarried then both Matilda and Charles E would be illegitimate ..... therefore it is unlikely that they would have a fathers name on thier birth certificates.... have you sent for  either to see   ??? 

I am getting a bit confused here, are you saying that Sarah Firth b 1834 is down on the 1881 census as a widow, can you  please post the reference.

Quote
I think Sarah 's mother was Elizabeth Berry

Can I please ask what evidence do you have of this.
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: Sisterjane on Wednesday 28 May 08 23:43 BST (UK)
Hi Jane and Patrish

Hello..i posted wrong info!!!!!!!Sorry

Jane
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: j.m.firth on Thursday 29 May 08 00:08 BST (UK)
Hi, Sorry I'm still a bit new to this, so not making myself very clear. No I've not sent for a birth certificate for Charles. I wasn't sure I had enough information to order it. I would appreciate your advice.

This is the 1881 census

Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details

RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members. Personal Message sent.

Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: Sisterjane on Thursday 29 May 08 00:36 BST (UK)
Hi

Have you any idea where Clarissa was in 1861 ?

Jane
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: patrish on Thursday 29 May 08 00:45 BST (UK)
Hi Jane,

I am thinking out loud out now after looking at the 81 census,... it appears that Sarah Ann Firth is the daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth Berry.  but on the 61 census I think  it reads that she is unmarried not widowed.... what do you think Jane. ???

1861 RG9/3454/81/8
.

I couldent find Clarissa in 61 either .

I think the only way forward is to send for Charles birth and see what it says re his father and then we can look for a marriage
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: ricky1 on Thursday 29 May 08 00:52 BST (UK)
Hi Patrish and Jane

It could be down as Clara born to Isaac and Ann Firth ???

Rg9/ 3252
folio 102
page 14

ricky
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: Sisterjane on Thursday 29 May 08 00:53 BST (UK)
Hi Patrish

She is Elizabeth Berry in 1851 but no sign of Thomas

HO107/2293/351/13

In 1861 they are living next door to Sarah Firth and the kids.

Jane

Hi Ricky..Ive just been studying that one with Issac and Ann  8)
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: ricky1 on Thursday 29 May 08 01:01 BST (UK)
I couldnt find a Clarissa Firth born 1855 ish closest I could see is born 1859,but plenty of Clara's around the 1855 ish ???
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: patrish on Thursday 29 May 08 01:18 BST (UK)
The free bmd has a marriage of a Sarah Ann Berry Sept q. 1854 Bradford 9b- 23 there are 2 females and only 1 male on the same page but I cannot see a Firth on the same quarter with that reference on the complete index's  ???


Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: j.m.firth on Thursday 29 May 08 08:57 BST (UK)
Hi everyone,  Thanks for your help. I'm going to order Charles' birth certificate and see if that helps. I noticed the disappearance and reappearance of Clarissa and Thomas as well. Elizabeth Berry was married before, I think to a Micklethwaite. Sarah is a Mickle thwaite in  both the 1841 and 1851 census. The family are all recorded as Feith in 1871. I wonder if she used Berry or Micklethwaite when she married ( or possibly she didn't marry at all). There is also a Daniel Heap? that lives with the family (or next door)sometimes recorded as a lodger other times as the son of Elizabeth Berry? Heap? I wonder where he fits in? I'm baffled!  Jane
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: ricky1 on Thursday 29 May 08 09:07 BST (UK)
Hi J.M

thats your best bet to get Charles' birth cert. Then we might be able to sort it out ;)

ricky
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: patrish on Thursday 29 May 08 09:36 BST (UK)
Hi Jane,

Best do as suggested and then we can  take it from there.... when you have more information.


Patrish  :)
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: patrish on Thursday 29 May 08 15:51 BST (UK)
Marriage September quarter 1853 Wakefield...... 9c - 46

Sarah Ann Micklethwaite to Thomas Firth.


A good possibility .

Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: patrish on Thursday 29 May 08 16:09 BST (UK)
I dont think the Charles that I have deleted was the correct one sorry   :(

Searching the free bmd's I have found these.

Clara Firth June q. 1854 Bradford 9b - 217 ... Cannot be  sure if this is their sister though  :-\

Matilda Firth March q 1856 Bradford 9b - 43

Charles Firth March q 1858 Bradford 9b - 15.
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: j.m.firth on Thursday 29 May 08 18:56 BST (UK)
Hi Patrish, I've not quite got my head round navigating the BMD. Any reason why Charles, Matilda and Clarissa are on Bradford records? I found Charles Edward Firth - Huddersfield 1859 9a-261. I thought I'd just check before ordering Charles' birth certificate. Would appreciate your opinion. Thanks
 Jane
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: patrish on Thursday 29 May 08 20:34 BST (UK)
I am afraid I cant answer that one Jane, I know nothing of the area.

It just seemed logical that as the children were born close together that they might all be in the same registration dist, but thats only my opinion.

You must go with what you think is correct and take the chance.

I thought the marriage I found was a strong possibility but again why Wakefield  ???

Both names seem common to the area and the problem is we could have more than one family but all with the same names  ::)

I dont think we can be sure of anything much with this family it would seem.





Quote
Charles Edward b. Q1 1859 Huddersfield  Vol 9a Pg. 261

This is the one I deleted, it was found by someone else.
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: Sisterjane on Friday 30 May 08 12:35 BST (UK)
The Wakefield marriage is a very good possibility because the areas of Denby Dale, Emley and Cumberworth are all on the border with Huddersfield and Wakefield.

In fact I have a friend who lives in Denby and its easier for her to go shopping in Wakefield than Huddersfield  8).

Jane
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: patrish on Friday 30 May 08 15:34 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Jane, :)

 So the Huddersfield birth might be more realistic than the Bradford one I found. ???

 Perhaps this could be a possibility for Matilda's birth  Dec q. 1856 Huddersfield 9a - 284    :-\

Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: j.m.firth on Tuesday 03 June 08 20:48 BST (UK)
Thank you all for your help. I have ordered the following birth certificate (to start with):-

Charles Edward Firth - Huddersfield 1859 9a-261

I'll let you know the results!! Fingers crossed.

Jane
Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: Russell V R Ord on Monday 23 February 09 07:06 GMT (UK)
Hello Jane,

Charles Edward Firth married Sarah Ann Beevers (1887).  She was the daughter of Thomas Beevers and Jane Blacker.

Charles was the son of Thomas Firth and Sarah Ann Micklethwaite.

Sarah Ann was the daughter of John Micklethwaite and Elizabeth Horn (married 1828).  The confusion is because of the previous and future marriages of Elizabeth.  See below;

In 1816, Elizabeth married Daniel Heap and had a son called Daniel Heap in 1826.

In 1828, Elizabeth married John Micklethwaite and had the children; Ann (1829), William (1932) and Sarah Ann (1835).

Later, Elizabeth married a Thomas Berry (I cannot find this marriage).

John Micklethwaite had previously been married to Elizabeth Heward in 1816 and had the following children;  Joseph (1817), George (1818), Jonathan (1820) and John (1822).

I hope this makes sense and helps a little.

All the best

Russell

http://skelmanthorpe.tribalpages.com/

Title: Re: Charles e firth
Post by: j.m.firth on Monday 23 February 09 21:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Russell, Thank you for the information, it's hugely helpful and has filled in gaps and confirmed lots of grey areas. I'll be resuming my research in earnest once again! Your Skelmanthorpe project is very impressive, I will enjoy  taking time to study it. Thanks once again.
 Jane