RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: redpuma on Sunday 25 May 08 19:59 BST (UK)
-
Hi help needed and I do mean help.
Traced husband's family to Trevethin/Pontypool going back to possibly 1841. Unfortunately the 1841 census as you all know only lists names and age so could be going down a wrong alley. Anyway my husband's g/father was born John Rhapps 1876 to Uriah and Mary (Weeks) Rapps. (Hope you now see the difference in the surname spelling. In 1881 their surname appears as Ralpps. However Uriah's parents John and Mary Rapps only appear in the 1851 census when Uriah is aged 1. John was born circa 1819 and Mary circa 1821 according to the census in Treventhin. I am now well and truly stuck. There are loads of Rapps but they hail from Somerset so.............. could some very kind soul help me ascertain (a) the date of marriage of John to Mary and (b) Mary's maiden name and (c) if they actually were born in Trevethin.
Also because I live so far away I relaly need help with how I could continue tracing my (by marriage) Welsh ancestry again suggestions more than welcome.
Thanks
Ann
-
they are possibly on the 1871 census
RG10/5381/101/24.
john rhapps age 55. b. pontypool. occ. coalminer. head.
mary age 54. b. pontypool. wife.
eleazor age 20. b. pontypool. occ. coalminer. son.
melia age 16. b. pontypool. occ. dressmaker. daughter.
david age 15. b. pontypool. occ. coalminer. son.
william age 12. b. pontypool. son.
susannah age 9. b. pontypool. daughter.
mary denis age 26. b. monmouthshire. occ. dressmaker. lodger.
william parker age 24. b. llantrisant. occ. coalminer. lodger.
evan davies age 20. b. llantrisant. occ. coalminer. lodger.
living at ;penthifer(near colliery),llantrisant,glamorgan.
reg.dist. pontypridd
-
if the 1871 census is your family
here is the son william in 1891
RG12/4418/70/45.
william rhapps age 31. b. pontypool. occ. cordwainer. head.
mary age 29. b. llantrisant. wife.
thomas.jno. age 2. b. llantrisant. son.
living at ;brook street,llantrisant,glamorgan.
-
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/trevethinprt.htm
transcribed parish registers for Trevethin are here - few signs of your family apart from a few possible burials. Given that, and considering the names Uriah & Jabez in the family, I wonder if they were non-conformist.
Possible marriage for John as Ralphs
December quarter 1840 Pontypool vol 26 pg 155 with Mary Davies or Thomas on the same page
Uriah's birth doesn't appear on FreeBmd, but those of Cecelia, Jabez & Jane do,
Cecelia Rapps march qtr 1842 Pontypool vol 26 pg 130
Jane Rapps sept qtr 1846 Pontypool vol 26 pg 156
Jabez Rapps sept qtr 1847 Pontypool vol 26 pg 136
-
Hi all
It never fails to amaze how quickly FHS people are and above all how kind thanks for the info had seen the 1871 census but will need to dig further as to find out when and where John and Mary married plus Mary's maiden name certainly would enable me to further my search, if they were non conformists please how can I trace this. It does seem strange that Uriah's siblings are listed in the BMD and also on Ancestry Uk but no matter which spelling is used he does not show.
If as on some census birth places of John (Uriah's father) are shown as Pontypridd not being Welsh would this affect where records and indeed what records are kept?
Although from my questions you will see I am pretty new (and dense) with regard to family history and tracing.
-
Yes, it would affect the records if he was born in Pontypridd and not Pontypool. Pontypool is in Monmouthshire, Pontypridd in Glamorgan. Genuki isn't helping with the whereabouts of non-conformist records in Monmouthshire. The Record Office in Cwmbran will always the best bet as long as the records have been handed over.
I'll include a link to the parish covering Pontypridd so you can the scale of the problem. In a parish, just one parish church usually, so one place to look for records, possibly a second if the population increases. And then the non-conformist chapels who might or might not have baptism records depending on if they practised infant baptism
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/LlantwitFardre/Chapels.html
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/LlantwitFardre/#ChurchRecords
It's odd that Uriah doesn't seem to have registered when the others were, but at least some of them were so you can find out mother's maiden name from one of the certificates.
;)
-
Thanks Osprey
Yep I guess I have a mountain to scale think will order one of the siblings birth cert and see what goes from there.
Thanks all so much for invaluable help and info. But if you think of anything enlightening I sure would listen.
Kind regards
Ann
-
I too am researching this family & can't find Uriah's birth record.
I have found most of his siblings & could get his mother's maiden name from one of those.
Have you had any more luck with this enquiry ?
-
Hi John
The only details I have are below. It is John (Jack) Rhapps born 1876 who is my husband's grandfather Uriah being his father. Havent managed to trace anything further. Seems a lot of the Rapps/Rhapps clan hail from Somerset and then possibly then Prussia States. It seems strange that until the 1881 census the family name was spelt Rapps then suddenly a 'h' was added. This could have been purely because the numerator at the time couldnt spell or my theory is that obviously being Welsh he assumed it was spelt with a 'h'.
There appears to be a lot more details regarding the Rapps from High Littleton but beyond 1819 nothing for the Welsh connection.
Can I ask what part of the lineage are you hailing from.
By the way attaching a photo of Jack Rhapps in his Welsh Rugby shirt he was actually capped 3 times.
Kind regards
Ann
Rapps, Catherine
1878 - Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales -
Rapps, Gwen
1887 - Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales -
Rapps, John
1819 - Monmouthshire -
Rapps, Lensistisra
1885 - Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales -
Rapps, Mary Jane
1872 - Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales -
Rapps, Uriah
abt 1850 - Trevethin Monmouthshire -
Rapps, Uriah
1883 - Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales -
Rapps, William
1874 - Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales -
Rhapps, Ann
14 Aug 1906 - Ardwick Manchester England -
- -
Rhapps, John
25/07/1876 - Dinas Isaf Road Llantrisaint 23 Jan 1950 - Manchester England
Rhapps, Margaret
- -
Rhapps, Mary
13 Jan 1912 - Ardwick Manchester England 5 Jun 2004 - Wythenshawe Hospital Wythenshawe Manchester UK
Rhapps, Thomas
- -
Rhapps, William
-
Hello Ann,
It's not my line - I am helping an old friend Eileen Baker (nee Bird, who's mother was a Rhapps from Wales) to trace her tree. This is as far as I've traced this line :-
John RHAPPS
(1819-1887)
Mary
(1821-1894)
Married 1836
second great grandparents
Uriah RHAPPS
(1850-1910)
Mary WEEKS
(1852- )
Married 1871
great grandparents
William RHAPPS
(1874-1901)
Sarah Elizabeth BLANK
(1875- )
Married 1896
grandparents
Amelia RHAPPS
(1919-1999)
Frederick John BIRD
(1918-2002)
Married 1941
parents
Eileen BIRD
(1948- )
Thanks for the photo. I must see where he fits into the tree.
-
Hi
No problem it looks like somewhere there is a connection must tell hubby but its a hard slog as with all coalmining communities I think they were migratory people.
By the way John Rapps (original spelling 1819-1887 married Mary Weeks).
Regards
Ann
-
According to my research, Uriah R(h)apps married Mary Weeks in 1871 (GRO Sep quarter 1871 Pontypridd Vol 11a Pg 507). Where did you get the data for an earlier version marrying John Rapps circa 1836 ?
Or have I missed something ?
The link between Eileen & your husband seems to be that he is descended from 'Jack' Rhapps (1876) & she is descended from his older brother William.
I've attached a PDF to show this.