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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: grandarog on Friday 23 May 08 22:06 BST (UK)
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Hello All,
Thought I ought to share this photo with you all in case anyone has connections to the Crew.
I know nothing about them except My Godfather, Sid Andrews is the Sgt Air Gunner 2nd Left.
I presume the 7 signatures on the photo are the rest of the Air crew. (plus the dog Nip.)
I know all about Sids WW1.history when he was Air Mechanic 19405 S.C.Andrews RFC/RAF.
He was afounder member of 70 Squadron RFC.Collecting One and Half Strutter Aircraft from the RNAS at Farnborough in 1916 and staying with the sqdn. in France during the war finishing up in Germany at Bickendorf with Sopwith Snipes.
However he must have had a terrible time in WW2 as he bluntly and absolutely refused to say anything about what he did after he re-enlisted in the RAF. Whenever he was asked he would only ever reply "You dont want to Know",his wife was no more forthcoming even if she new.
The only definite Signature is S.Allen I wouldnt like to surmise on the others except the dog "NIP". Unfortunately apart from the Braying Donky Noseart there is nothing to identify Sqdn etc.
The aircraft looks like an early Mark Lanc to me but I willingly stand corrected by any experts on a/c Recce. I note that Sid is not wearing his Pip ,Sqeak and Wifred on his Blue.3 of the Officers are wearing a single ribbon ,(Maybe AFC or DFC at a guess)Cant make out if it is diagonal striped .
Best Wishes Rog.
PS:- I hope the Photo is OK I tried to attach at a High res, But system threw me out.
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Hi Rog,
I would try posting a request for help on the general queries board at:
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=127
You won't be able to post the photo, but will be able to put a link to it.
You may find that someone can identify the lanc from the nose art. I assume that you don't know the squadron? Anyway, I am sure that someone will be able to help you, they are a very helpful lot.
Regards,
Ann
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Hello Rog,
just a bit of rivet counting. From the lack of IFF aerials this looks like an earlier Lanc, maybe 1942/44. I have recently been through my Lancaster literature for another thread, and regretfully, the nose art does ring any bells.
Having said that - nose art was not the norm on WW2 RAF aeroplanes.
Dave
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Thanks Ann and Dave,
As I said Dave,I thought it was an early Lancaster as it has the thin props of the early Merlins. I never thought about the IFF antenna .
I believe vision blisters appeared on the later mk canopies as well.
You assume right Ann,I said I didnt Know anything of Sqdn or other details on first post. It doesn't appear to have any Mission tally marks under the Canopy that I can see either ..
The Braying Donkey may have been chalked on just for the Photo ,who Knows! I have at your suggestion posted on The Commands board and Also on the BBC family history board.
My User name is the same on Both if you want to follow. Hopefully any interested people will post on here once they have followed the link.
Thanks again for your help,
Regards Rog.
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Hopefully this will make names easier to see. Rog
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I have posted your request in the Lancaster Archive forum under "Unidentified Crew" I wish you luck and will follow the threads with interest.
http://lancaster-archive.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4
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Hi Rog !
I'm wondering if this maybe the EC? Wood ! .... not too hot on the Air Force ... but thought I would post anyways !
Annie :)
Name - WOOD, ERIC IAN CAMPBELL
Initials - E I C
Nationality - United Kingdom
Rank - Sergeant (Obs.)
Regiment/Service - Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text - 12 Sqdn.
Date of Death - 09/03/1942
Service No - 918372
Casualty Type - Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference - 1. E. 11.
Cemetery - UDEN WAR CEMETERY
Then I'm wondering if one of the signatures is W Bray ....... ( maybe the reason for the nose art !! ) there are 2 W Brays on CWGC ... both Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve but different squadrons and different dates of death ...... !! just thought I'd mention it !
Now I look at it again ... it looks more like Gray .... and there's a Simpson there also !
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Is there anyone who can weave their photo manipulation magic and completely 'isolate' the signatures?
Thudders
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Hi Thudders,
I have just tried to put the Signatures file on th Photo Retorsation board ,but therer is aproblem uploading art the moment will try again later,
Thanks for your and others Help ,
Lovely people ,
Regards Rog :)
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I've got an Allen who died somewhere in the war.I don't know his first name. He was a member of an air crew but always wanted to become a pilot.But the RAF wouldn't let him. If family myth is correct he got into a plane and just flew off never to be seen again. Memoty says that this was in the Pacific but I was only little when I was told the story so I may be wrong on that.
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Hello Again,
Jc26red Sorted the Photo signatures and deciphered some on the Photo Restoration Board.
Many Thanks.
E C J WOOD
NIP. (the dog )
W T Gray
Peter Bingley
R Simpson
S Allen
The others still unclear.
Getting somewhere now, :D ;D Any of these on your lists Larry ?.
Regards Rog.
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What a super picture Rog!
I only wish that my Dad had taken some like that! I have a collection of people no names and that's all from his RAF days.
Rabbit B ;D
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Research Update.
Deleted as incorrect info
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Great Pic!
Could the name beneath R Simpson possibly be Norman James?
justmej
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Deleted as incorrect info.Rog
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Hi Rog,
Thank you for letting us know! An interesting if sad story.
Rabbit B ;D
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Hi, I was just looking in a book I had as a kid called "The Lancaster at War" and among the nose-art, there is a very similar donkey. It is painted rather more solidly than the one in this picture, but is standing in a very similar position on the Lancaster's nose, with his tail curled up in similar fashion.
If it's any help, the caption reads:"Often insignia had no apparent link with the aircraft.S/Ldr Peter Birch(here seen in the cockpit), a flight commander with 50 Sq at Skellingthorpe in the spring of 1943, constantly whistled and hummed the tune The Donkey Serenade, so his crew had a donkey painted on their Lanc BIII, ED282,VN-S."
It may be unconnected but I wondered if the signiture in the middle could be Peter Birch?
Fred :)
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Hello Fred,
Thanks for your entry.
Would it be possible for you to upload a scan of the picture in your book to here ,I'me sure the copyrighgt is out of date by now if i'me wrong i will accept censure from the moderator, but I think it is important as it could be a major Breakthrugh .
The Signature could well be Birch not Bingley as we think .
It is directly below the only Officer with full Wings who is the Pilot and Probably the Skipper as Well. (It didnt always follow the Pilot was the Captain.)
I dont Know at the mo if Mk 3 Lancs still had the Pointy props on the Merlins as in my Pic altho I think it is a Mk 1 but have not had actual confirmation of which MK.
!943 is good as P/O Wood in the pic was not lost until Jan 1944. So could actually be spot on target for a result.
Regards Rog
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Not wishing in any way to steal Fred's thunder as I think his find is a stroke of absolute genius.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dogpo/img003.jpg)
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In the original (unscanned)"Sammy" photo, the pilot does look similar to the chap in the bomber crew photo although I suppose they all did in those days. :)
If you search for "The Donkey Serenade" on Google, there is a good copy of the song on you-tube from a rather corny cowboy film of around 1937. I'll see if I can do a link although once heard, it's never forgotten. ;D
Fred
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Hi Fred,
If you need any help with the link Pm me! Great picture Thudnut, and the rest of the chaps!
Congratulations to everyone, what a find!
Rabbit B ;D
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Thudders is right !! ........ Fred - you're a genius !! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
The signature does look like Peter Birch on the photo !!
Annie :)
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Blimey! Genius is the word, alright. I think the Lancaster At War illustration of Birch does look like the pilot in Rog's photo.
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Hello Again,
Jc26red Sorted the Photo signatures and deciphered some on the Photo Restoration Board.
Many Thanks.
E C J WOOD
NIP. (the dog )
W T Gray
Peter Bingley
R Simpson
S Allen
The others still unclear.
Getting somewhere now, :D ;D Any of these on your lists Larry ?.
Regards Rog.
Hello all,
David Layne passed this link on to me and asked if I could help. An interesting puzzle, which I cannot answer at this moment. However, I note, like the other members, that a number of the crew (the erks on either side maybe impossible to ID) have medals. Without being able to identify which name goes with which person it's difficult to ascertain who has the medal.
But taking the names above:
E C J WOOD - there is only one who received a medal with those initials:
Ernest Charles John Wood (61958)
Awarded a DFC 11/6/43 whilst with 50 Squadron (whilst a F/Lt)
W T Gray - again only one with those initials:
William Thomas Gray (580652/45273)
Awarded DFM 13/9/40 with 61 Squadron as a Sgt
Awarded DFC 11/6/43 with 50 Squadron as a F/Lt
S Allen- only one with a single initial
Samuel Allen (974032)
Awarded DFM 20/4/1943 with 50 Squadron as F/Sgt
No Bingley and too many Simpsons to make any judgement but the fact that the three above were all awarded their medals with 50 Squadron makes that line on enquiry a good one. It would be worth asking the NA for the 50 Squadron ORBs for a period around Jan to June 1943 so as to ascertain if they flew together.
Hope that has helped in a small way
K
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Hi kyt.
Welcome to Rootschat and welcome to this particular thread.
A very interesting and useful first post, if I may be permitted to say so. I have to agree that I think things definately point towards 50 Squadron.
Looks like there is a 50 Squadron Association. Contact details are:
50 Squadron Association, 35 Wetherby Crescent, Lincoln LN16 8SY
Perhaps drop them a line too.
Thudders
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Hi kyt,
Welcome to Rootschat, you will be a very valuable member methinks with info like that! But if I may, an IRK is an Irk, so it says in the book my Dad had, which is mine now.
Dave/Thudders can you enlighten us what the meaning is? I know what I thought it meant, but I had better not say so here! ;D
Rabbit B ;D ;D ;D
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Lancaster ED828 coded VN-S was delivered to 50 Sqn in April 1943 and was lost on a raid to Bochum on the night of 12/13 June 1943.
The crew list does not contain any of the names so far suggested for the photo.
F/L P.J. Stone (pilot) Killed
Sgt. A. Hunter (Flt. Eng.) Killed
F/S A.J. Mills (WOp/Air Gunner) Killed
F/O M.D.S. Hicks, RCAF (Air Gunner) Killed
F/O A. Smith, RCAF (Air Gunner) Killed
P/O W.J. Glenn (Prisoner of War)
P/O J. Batson (Prisoner of War)
Sources: http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/bomber.php?id=220
and CWGC http://www.cwgc.org/
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Kyt wrote........50 Squadron ORBs for a period around Jan to June 1943 so as to ascertain if they flew together.
I understand Larry from
http://lancaster-archive.com/forum/search.php?search_id=egosearch
has 50 Squadron Orbs from April '43 on.
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Thank you for the welcomes.
As for irk/erk, I have always read it written as "erk" which is defined as "an aircraftsman of the lowest rank in the Royal Air Force.", though often used for any groundcrew of below NCO level. :)
K
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Just to add to the possible names:
Peter Cliff Birch (85675), received a Bar to his DFC whilst with 50 Squadron, 7/12/1943
EDIT: If the E C J Wood that I have listed is the one in the photo then the picture must have been taken before Nov 1943, as he relinquished his commission due to ill health on 3/11/1943.
K
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Thank you for the welcomes.
As for irk/erk, I have always read it written as "erk" which is defined as "an aircraftsman of the lowest rank in the Royal Air Force.", though often used for any groundcrew of below NCO level. :)
K
OK Kyt,
I only know what I have read during the war, and what I was told, so I will go along with that!
Great info again!
Rabbit B ;D
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The "sammy" photo is credited to P.C. Birch so he must have still been around in about 1970 when the book came out.
Here's the link to the Donkey Serenade. (Favourite lines with RAF connection:"Senorita, Donkeys' feet are not so fleet as a mosquita"- They don't write 'em like they used to ::) )
http://pratie.blogspot.com/2008/05/mario-lanza-sings-donkey-serenade.html
Fred :)
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Thanks for your contribution Kyt.
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Hello All,
What can I say ,a marvelous surprise when I logged on this morning. ;D Thanks for all your inputs .
Hopefully now Larry will have the details of our Photo and Sids crew in his lists now we have names.
I do appologise for the cardinal sin of assumption re ECJ Wood. I was completely wrong about the Pilot Officer E Wood Lost on Ops in 1944. Sorry if I have misled any one further. :-[
I still think the photo may well have been taken earlier than 1943 maybe when the crew was first formed. That would explain the rather thin line drawing (like its chalked on) of the donkey on my Photo
Again I hope I am not assuming too much as the Signature below the Pilot on the photo looks far more like it ends in ey or ay than ch which rather eliminates Birch as the name. However I must agree the faces look similar in th Photos. Especially the Jaunty angle of the SD cap in both pics. Mnd you it was quite a common style as seen in many photos of the period.
Once again. Thankyou all ,it feels we are really getting somewhere now.
Great efforts by All concerned really appreciated,
Only wish I could sometimes be of such help to you and other Chatters.
Please stay with us ,
Best Regards to All ,
Roger.
PS:- Kyt is absolutely correct about "erk" it is a term that was in use throughout my time in the RAF and is one of the terms used for years and probably still is. Likewise" Sprog " for a new recruit or "Rook" or "Rookie" for a junior entry Halton Aircraft Apprentice before the Apprenticeship system changed.
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Me Again,
Tongue in cheek and trying not to assume to much after my previous major gaffe. It now looks to me ,after Kyts input, ref. Medal Awards, that my photo predates 11/6/1943 when WTGray and ECJ Wood were awarded their
Distinguished Flying Crosses . None of the folk in my pic have more than one medal ribbon.
Now even more requesting.!!
Is it possible some one can look up somewhere about medal awards , ,maybe find out what opps the medals were awarded for also PC Birch's Bar to his DFC later that year.
Once again, Thanks to you all, :) :) :)
Roger.
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Hi Rog,
Perhaps things were spelt differently in Canada, which is where I got the IRK from.
My book is about the school of Air Navigation and their training during the war. It was printed in Canada. That's where my Dad served for fours years. At the camp in Port Albert. He was in England after that until he was demobbed.
I am always happy to stand corrected, however have a look at this site.
http://uk.geocities.com/majorsnowdon/galmisc/slang.html
Thanks for the other information, most interesting!
Rabbit B ;D
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Confirmation that it's the Birch crew:
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1902
BTW I'm known as Amrit on rafcommands
K
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So: KYT=Amrit,
it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance again
Regards
Dave
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Hello All,
The latest update.
Thanks to input from members of Roots Chat , RAF Commands & Lancaster Archives Forums. (and a bit of my own digging arround) I am now well ahead with some of the details .
I dont want to fall into the "assuming " trap again so please, please pull me up if you spot any errors.
50 Sqn.RAF in 1943 took part in the first shuttle-bombing raid (when the targets were a radar factory at Friedrichshafen and the Italian naval base at Spezia), and the epic raid on the German V-weapons experimental establishment at Peenemunde. Also many other targets of importance.
It now looks pretty certain my photo is of Sqdn/Ldr. Peter Cliff Birch. DFC and Crew.
He and F/L Wood E.C.J. F/O Gray C.W. F/S Allan S. (with 3other members who dont appear to match any of the names on the photo) flew on this opp.
16/17th April 1943 Skoda works raid-
Lancaster
ED828 VN-S
50 Sqn
Crew S/L Birch P.C.
Sgt Mooney W.***
P/O Medani J.***
F/S Allan S.
F/L Wood E.C.J.
F/O Gray C.W.
Sgt Hartman J.M.***
( *** don't seem to be in My Photo)
I notice that Flight Sergeant S.Allan was awarded his DFM on the 20 April 1943.I wonder if it was related to this particular opp , or because he had completed the required number of opps to qualify!
Hopefully some kind soul will have access to citation data for all the medals my people were awarded.
According to Lost Bombers site , ED828 was lost on the Bochum Opp.of 12/13 June 1943 (with a totally different crew listed) together with ED 429 & ED472. also from 50 Sqn.
It would be great now if someone has info to date and list the actual crew pictured in my photo.
The rather crude Nose art donkey compared with the fine example on the pic shown from the book and the fact that F/S Allan is not wearing a medal ribbon in my photo, supports my thoughts that it is a much earlier crew prior to April 1943. It couldnt be later than 12 June if the a/c is ED828 (we have no id marks !!).
Here lies the Question ? ED 828 was code letter "S" for Sammy . Would there have been another replacement a/c lettered "S" after ED 828 was destroyed on the 12/13 June.
This could mean the Picture in the Book of Peter Birch in the cockpit of "S" Sammy. could have been much later in the War.
We dont appear to have names Medani, Hartland or Mooney on Photo. They dont appear on the CWWG site as casualties so presume crew shuffling had taken place.
Also we have Definite persons on Photo as Sid Andrews (2nd Left .My Godfather) and R Simpson and 2 undeciphered names, not listed as crew
I hope I am not rambling on to bore you ,but I dont want to miss any detail and welcome all your ideas.
Thank you all again for your generous support in giving time and effort to help me. Please stay with me /us and hopefully the whole story will unfold eventually.
Looking forward to more input .
I say, Best Wishes to you All ,
Appreciatively Yours ,
Roger. :)
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Hi Roger,
I've found two of the names. Rather than repeating the info, it can be read on rafcommands:
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1902
K
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Hi Kyt/Amrit,
Thankyou again for your inputs on here and other forums,I hate to think where we would get any info if it wasnt for people like yourselfand the others being willing to share data from there hard found sources. I never in my wildest dreams expected anything like the results I am getting when I put up the photo.I havre only ever been on the Family Tree type queries before this is my first excursion into connections to Wartime Military history.
Once Again ,Thankyou and all the others, To coin a popular expression during my RAF service .You have given me "N" info( meaning amongst manyother things Maximum/ Loads/ Quantity/ Size.) Thats how it was said ,I have never written it before.
Regards Roger
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Some time ago I passed on this this initial post to a friend in Oz who knows more about this sort of thing than I ever will. Unfortunately I sent it to one of his e-mail addresses that he rarely checks consequently;y he only recently picked it up.
This is the response I have just got:
"
Hi
I don't know if this is too long after you posted but thought I'd reply anyway.
I would start by looking up the names of the crew on CWGC site. I looked up the one name I can read (S Allen) and found 4 RAF men with this name who died on Ops. I am of course assuming it was shot down.
If you can make out the other names look them up on CWGC.org and then check where they are buried. If the plane went down over Europe then they will all be interred in the same cemetery.
I found my Great-Uncle the same way - found his grave - then the names of his crew - then what raid they were on - the which aircraft were lost that night - then narrowed it down to the base and then went to the British Museum and got a pic of the nose art.
It was scarily like the one shown - and was called The Donkey Serenade"
Which seems to have confirmed the information already received
Alan NZ
Ps the R Simpson wouldn't by any chance have been a Ray Simpson from NZ ???
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Percy Porter
Hi Allan,
Thanks for your input (I have PM'd you). Would it be possible for your friend in Aus to scan the pictureof the Donkey Serenade from the British Museum, he has, and put it on here for us. Also if he could post the crew details. It sounds like his relly could have been on ED 828 when she went down 12/13 June 43 on the Bochum Raid,
I dont have any info ref R.Simpson other than his signature on the Photo at the moment. I am sure some will come to light soon there are so many kind folks helping me on this and other forums .I have complete faith that everything about the whole issue will be resolved eventually.
Hope you can contact your friend in Aus OK this time,
Best Wishes and Thanks, Roger
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I'll get on to it later in the day, Monday is my Domestic Chores day so I am a bit tied up.
I have not recieved a pm tho!
Alan NZ
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Latest Update,
I am pleased to say have found another related photo of Sid Andrews my Godfather.
Was not in very good condition but Thanks to the techno wizards on our Photo restoration board all has been done to make it available to post on here .
Tongue in cheek and willing to be proven wrong ,I would estimate it is very probably a 50 Squadron line up taken in the winter of 1942/3. Sid is 10 from the right on the third rank up from the front.
On the original I can make out his Sgts Chevrons and Half Brevet.
Hopefully you may find some of your rellies on here . I shall send a copy of this Pic to Larry to use on his Lancaster Archive forum, so it will be great if someone can actually conclusively prove it is 50 Sqn.
Thanks again for your interest and support.
Roger.
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Hi
I am new to the forum.....
Just wonderin why under some posts there are a list of names,,,,i noticed Dixon,,Liverpool/london
Just curious as my name is Dixon and i am from liverpool..
Bill
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They are surnames in which people are interested and which they are researching.
You can add them via your personal 'profile'.
Jennifer
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Hi
I am new to the forum.....
Just wonderin why under some posts there are a list of names,,,,i noticed Dixon,,Liverpool/london
Just curious as my name is Dixon and i am from liverpool..
Bill
Hi Bill,
Welcome to Rootschat, this is a great site to belong to.
When you have added your names to your personal profile as JenB suggested, have a look at the surname interest threads as well.
You can always PM [personal message] the person who has that name in their profile, and see if there are any connections. Several people have found cousins like that I think.
Good hunting
Rabbit B ;D
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Hi Bill.
Please check your PMs
Thudders
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Hello Folks,
Just a Nudge in case there are loads of new chatters ,some of whom may have connections to any of Sids' crew now we have established some of the identities.
Thanks again for the help received from you all
Rog.
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That is one hell of a good photo, Roger. Shows how big a Lanc was.
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Hi All Me Again,
This picture has Sid 7 from the left Front row when he was still an LAC Driver.
I have no idea where or what the unit is. I know it was said he was alledgedly driving an ambulance in France and only just got back to Dunkirk in time to get off the beach.
He became an Air Gunner sometime between then and the orriginal photo at the start of this thread.
Maybe someone will recognise this picture and have their own copywith provenance.
Regards Rog
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Hi All,
Just a bump up in case one of you recognises some one in the photos or has any further info to input.
Best Wishes Rog.
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i was just going trough the site when i came upon the very large photo of all the airman and the lanc,my dad was a pilot in the war on the Lancaster's and all so an bomb aimer,i all have a photo very similar to your,s but with no names,i quite a few and one of them doe,s have names on it,but as far as which squadron he was with i don,t know,i,think he met my mum when she was in the wraff,s and he was in Belfast,i will try and find the picture,s and will have to get my daughter to show me how to put them on cos i have,nt got a clue,only just learning about computers
from Jacquie.
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i was just going trough the site when i came upon the very large photo of all the airman and the lanc,my dad was a pilot in the war on the Lancaster's and all so an bomb aimer,i all have a photo very similar to your,s but with no names,i quite a few and one of them doe,s have names on it,but as far as which squadron he was with i don,t know,i,think he met my mum when she was in the wraff,s and he was in Belfast,i will try and find the picture,s and will have to get my daughter to show me how to put them on cos i have,nt got a clue,only just learning about computers
from Jacquie.
Hi Jacquie,
Well we all have to start somewhere, there are all sort of practice sites on Rootschat if you look at them carefully you will learn a lot! I certainly did.
Despite having used computers for years I am still learning as well. So have a go!
I shall look foreward to seeing your picture when you post it!
Rabbit B ;D
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HI RABBIT B,THANK,S FOR YOUR MESSAGE,YES I AM LEARNING HAVE ONLY BEEN USING MY DAUGHTER ,S
LAPTOP FOR A COUPLE OF WEEK,S SHE ONLY BOUGHT IT COS HER NANA DIED AND LEFT HER SOME MONEY AND SHE WANT,ED TO SPEND SOME OF IT WISELY,THAT,S HOW I STARTED TRYING TO DO MY MUM,S TREE AND EVERY ONE HAS BEEN REALLY HELPFULL,BUT SHE DOE,ST NO HOW TO PUT PHOTO,S ON EITHER,SO IT SHOULD BE FUN ,WILL HAVE TO FIND SOME ONE TO SHOW ME,SO YOU WILL HAVE TO BE PATIENTENCE HOPE IT WANT BE TO LONG FROM JACQUIE ??? ???
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to grandarog i saw the picture,s of all the crew standing in front or a lanc,and some wagon,s the one with the lanc,each time i look at it and i did look last nite and to-day for quite awhile and kept coming back to it,there is one air-man who stand,s out and look,s so much like my dad even tough it is hard to see his name was harry campbell skillington born boxing day 1925?,that is all i know but have picture,s that i am going to try and put on and there are also name,s also a friend of my mum,s was a gunner but was killedhis name was thomas Hanna of Belfast and his brother-in -law,i no i was told that if you went up in a Lancaster bomber you were very lucky to come back.
all the best Jacquie. ??? ??? ??? ???
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HI RABBIT B,THANK,S FOR YOUR MESSAGE,YES I AM LEARNING HAVE ONLY BEEN USING MY DAUGHTER ,S
LAPTOP FOR A COUPLE OF WEEK,S SHE ONLY BOUGHT IT COS HER NANA DIED AND LEFT HER SOME MONEY AND SHE WANT,ED TO SPEND SOME OF IT WISELY,THAT,S HOW I STARTED TRYING TO DO MY MUM,S TREE AND EVERY ONE HAS BEEN REALLY HELPFULL,BUT SHE DOE,ST NO HOW TO PUT PHOTO,S ON EITHER,SO IT SHOULD BE FUN ,WILL HAVE TO FIND SOME ONE TO SHOW ME,SO YOU WILL HAVE TO BE PATIENTENCE HOPE IT WANT BE TO LONG FROM JACQUIE ??? ???
Hi Jacquie,
If you send me a pm, I will try and give you some simple instructions re posting pictures. It isn't hard to do at all.
Rabbit B ;D
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TO RABBIT B.
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY,YES PLEASE DO THAT FOR ME I DID ASK MY DAUGHTER BUT SHE IS AT WORK ALDAY THEN OUT BY THE TIME SHE GET,S IN AT TEN SHE IS TO TRIED,SO IF YOU CAN HELP ME THAT IS GREAT.(WHAT IS A PM,) AND IT IS A GOOD JOB IT IS BEING DONE OVER THE INTERNET,OTHER WISE YOU WOULD BE TEARING YOUR HAIR OUT BY THE ROOTS,THAT,S WHY MY DAUGHTER GET,S OUT QUICK,ARE WELL WAIT TO HEAR FROM YOU ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU,I WILL GO AND LOOK FOR THE PHOTO,S HOPE YOU DON,T NEED A SCANNER OR PRINTER COS WE HAVE,NT GOT THEM BUT CAN ALLWAY,S GO PHONE SHOP AFTER YOU HAVE EXPLAINED IT TO ME ,ALL THE BEST JACQUIE. :-[ :-[ :-[ OR CAN GO LIBRAY CAN,T BELIEVE I WROTE THAT I DON,T HAVE PRINTER OR SCANNER,HOW ELSE CAN YOU SEND THEM ,TOLD YOU I MUST BE ON AN OTHER PLANET I HAVE TO LAUGH AT MY SELF SOME TIMES,
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OK kalasira,
I have sent you a pm = personal message. you will get an e-mail telling you that you have one, then you click on the blue line and it will take you through to look at what I have written.
This thread is only for information re the bomber crew.
Rabbit B ;D
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Hi Jacquie, :)
Thanks for your input to my thread,and thanks Rabbit B for helping her. I am very intrigued to find out if you have found that my pic contains your dad as well .
Kyt may be able to help trace what your dad did and where he served, if you haven,t found out already .He is a marvelous source of RAF info.
I look forward you starting your own thread and posting your photos you mentioned.
Best Wishes Rog :)
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I have to be carefull that i don,t write this in capital letter,s as some one mention to me awhile ago but were all have to learn by our mistake,s any way yes i have found quite a few photo,s and some have name,s on the back,i a friend gave me a scanner and next week we will send them to you no i am still trying to find my dad,harry campbell skillington born boxing day 1923????,and was station in Belfast,where he met my mum who was a Raff i hope he can find some thing out about my dad.all the best good luck seeing all the picture,s ,
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Hi kalasira,
I have been waiting to hear from you, so that I can give the information that you need, I suggest that you read the guide to scanning first, or pm me and we will go through it together.
Hi Rog, it is my pleasure to help where I can especially as my relis are all Ex RAF as well
Rabbit B ;D
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Hi Rabbit B
hi the person who gave me the scanner is going to do it for me next week,i am still looking for photo,s but have about 7 or 8 up to now,so hopefully it will me Tuesday,all the best Jacquie, ;) ;)
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Hi Rabbit B
hi the person who gave me the scanner is going to do it for me next week,i am still looking for photo,s but have about 7 or 8 up to now,so hopefully it will me Tuesday,all the best Jacquie, ;) ;)
Hi kalasira,
I look forward to seeing them but I suggest that you send me a pm so that we can discuss it.
Rabbit B ;D
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I am looking forward to seeing the photographs as they may hold valuable clues. May I suggest that you try to scan at high a resolution as possible so that we may pick out any aircraft serials or other details (if they are available). If the sizes are then too big for the forum, then you could email me the larger sizes.
K
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I'm looking forward to seeing them too!
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Hi Jacquie,
Did you ever manage to get the photos done and can we see them,
Regards Rog.
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hi Roger,
i look forward to seeing them too.
thanks for the nudge
rabbit b ;D
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hi Jacquie,
just a thought, if you take the pictures to your local library, some one will scan them in high definition and help you to post them, for us to see.
that is how you learn. go for it gal you never know what you can do till you try.
rabbit b ;D
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Hi All :),
Just a nudge incase one of the newer chatters might recognise a relative and for general interest. We never did get Pictures from Jacquie!
Best of Luck, Rog :D ;D
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Hi Jacquie, :)
Thanks for your input to my thread,and thanks Rabbit B for helping her. I am very intrigued to find out if you have found that my pic contains your dad as well .
Kyt may be able to help trace what your dad did and where he served, if you haven,t found out already .He is a marvelous source of RAF info.
I look forward you starting your own thread and posting your photos you mentioned.
Best Wishes Rog :)
Rog
I agree with you about Kyt he is one of the legendary people on RAF Commands...
Looking at the RAFRA site it appears that 50 Sqn also have a website so if you go to http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/garland/bomber.html which you can contact Gerry Collins on. RAFRA update regularly so it should still be there....
Please can we see the pics they found for you.... Its a fascinating thread you started.
Dee
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Thanks Dee,
That was the problem Jacquie never came up with any pictures she promised despite offers of help to upload etc. It doesnt look as if we ever will see them as she hasnt been on here since 2008 .So I am afraid there arent any more to view.Rog
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Thanks Dee,
That was the problem Jacquie never came up with any pictures she promised despite offers of help to upload etc. It doesnt look as if we ever will see them as she hasnt been on here since 2008 .So I am afraid there arent any more to view.Rog
Hi Rog,
Yep that was a real shame, but at least we tried! If you get this message Jacquie, we are still willing to help you
Rabbit B ;D
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I feel I have been cheated!
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David ,
She(Jacquie) has an E Mail address on her Profile,I tried a couple of times ages ago but got no response . You might be luckier if you have a try.
Regards Rog
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Such a pity I didnt look at when the thread started.... Hey David there is someone on Ebay selling a whole shed load of photos. Wonder if it might be worth trying to cut and paste those onto here and rafcommands to see if anyone recognises them. He does say they arent originals but some have different sets of people on them...
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David ,
She(Jacquie) has an E Mail address on her Profile,I tried a couple of times ages ago but got no response . You might be luckier if you have a try.
Regards Rog
Hi Roger et al,
I've just had a look at that ? e-mail it took me to a website. Not going to try again.
Shame init!
Rabbit B ;D
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Never say die or give up . I have just tried again ,copy of my E-mail to Jacqui sebt just now. Will update you all if she replies . I live in hopes.
Regards Rog
Copy of my E-mail to Jacqui .
Date: 22 May 2010 22:41
To: jacquie_skillington (deleted address, it,s on her profile page)
Subject:50 Squadron Photos.
Hi Jacquie ,
Have you still got the Photos you were trying to upload to my thread " Do you Recognise this Bomber Crew" on Roots chat. 2 years ago.
I would dearly love to see them, as would the other roots chatters. Please reply and we can sort out getting them scanned and put on line.
Regards Roger
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Never say die or give up . I have just tried again ,copy of my E-mail to Jacqui sent just now. Will update you all if she replies . I live in hopes.
Regards Rog
Copy of my E-mail to Jacqui .
Date: 22 May 2010 22:41
To: jacquie_skillington (deleted address, it,s on her profile page)
Subject:50 Squadron Photos.
Hi Jacquie ,
Have you still got the Photos you were trying to upload to my thread " Do you Recognise this Bomber Crew" on Roots chat. 2 years ago.
I would dearly love to see them, as would the other roots chatters. Please reply and we can sort out getting them scanned and put on line.
Regards Roger
Good for you Roger,
Fingers crossed!
Rabbit B ;)
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Another nudge up and yet another plea to Jacquie "kalasira "to contact us so we can help her put the photos on here. I know she sstill out there was last on line in August. I am now told by another chatter the big picture of Aircrews in front of Lancaster is definitely a 50 Sqdn lineup as he recognises a relative and his crew mates. Thanks for putting up with me Best Regards Rog
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Yes I can confirm this be 50sqn, my gt uncle and his crew are in it, aswell as Les knight + crew of Dambuster fame, Henry Maudslay and Trevor Roper (Gibsons rear gunner)...
tis sad though that maybe 3/4 of the aircrew probably got the chop before the war was finished...
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Yes I can confirm this be 50sqn, my gt uncle and his crew are in it, aswell as Les knight + crew of Dambuster fame, Henry Maudslay and Trevor Roper (Gibsons rear gunner)...
tis sad though that maybe 3/4 of the aircrew probably got the chop before the war was finished...
Hi 50sqnwopag,
Welcome to Rootschat, I hope that you will enjoy being a member as much as we do! :)
I'll bet that you were thrilled to see this picture. By 'got the chop' do you mean killed in action??
Rabbit B ;D
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yes tis a very good source of info this site is! and yes it means KIA...
50s
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yes tis a very good source of info this site is! and yes it means KIA...
50s
Hi 50s,
Thought so, it was a terrible war, so many people killed at home and in the armed forces.
We were bombed out! Not a good experience.
Rabbit B ;D
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Welcome to you 50sqnwopag,
Glad to have you on side
Your input will be very Welcome especially as you can put the Names to your Uncles crew faces and the 617 sqdn Dambuster Opp crew members in the Photo.
Thanks Roger
PS I will say thanks on Kyt and David Layne,s behalf and all the other chatters on my thread.
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Wilco.
My gt uncles crew first.
Sgt A C Mcbay Wirelessoperator/airgunner 11th from left 2nd row down (my gt uncle)
Sgt H May flt engineer 19th from left 2nd row up
Sgt E yates Pilot 20th from left 2nd row up
Sgt D Allen AirGunner 21st from left 2nd row up
Sgt H Peel observer (Nav) 22nd from left 2nd row up
Sgt F Anton Observer (Bomb aimer) 23rd from left 2nd row up
P/O or F/O A N Jarvis 5th from left seated
Dambusters as follows:-
F/O or F/Lt Trevor Roper Airgunner 8th from right seated (Gibsons rear gunner)
P/O T H Taerum Navigator 8th from right top row (Gibsons navigator)
Flt Henry Maudslay pilot 11th from right seated
Sgt Ray Grayston flt eng 15th from left 2nd row down (les knight crew)
Sgt harry O'brien AG 12th from left top row (les knight crew)
F/sgt Bob Kellow Wop/ag 10th from left 2nd row down (les Knight crew)
P/O Les Knight pilot 6th from right 2nd row down
And the boss ,Wing commander Russel DFC in the light coloured chair in the middle
The others I'm 50/50 on....
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Thats great info , we now know the photo predates 25 Mar 1943 when Henry Maudsley and his crew were Posted to 617 at Scampton. I already thought it was taken in the winter of 42/43.,How have you identified the faces do you have individual photos of the crews?
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well my uncle and co were on the sqn from 1st week of November 42 untill shot down 25th Feb 43 so its in that time frame. I ID'd them as I've got lots of books on BC and the RAF in general (tis my passion tbh).
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well my uncle and co were on the sqn from 1st week of November 42 untill shot down 25th Feb 43 so its in that time frame. I ID'd them as I've got lots of books on BC and the RAF in general (tis my passion tbh).
One of my interest too 50's,
Most of the family are ex RAF, though many gone now.
Rabbit B :)
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Hi All,
Just found this thread. Looking at the original photograph it occurs to me that the nose art on the Lanc might be a representation of NIP, the dog in the photo?
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Hi Sharkey ,
Welcome to RootsChat.
Thanks for your input. I think it has been pretty well established that it is the Donkey of the Skippers later nose art but just maybe chalked on for the photo. I think they had probably just been allocated their new Lancaster/
Have a read right through the thread ,you will find it quite interesting.
Best Regards Rog
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Yep, was aware of the donkey line of thought Roger. Just thought that the dog might be an alternative. Your point about the aircraft being new seems to be borne out by the absence of lead deposits on the wing leading edges either side of the engines.
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Have recently been informed of line up in orriginal photo.
Please read through entire posts before posting comments to avoid needless repetition. Thankyou.
Left to right:
1st from left: Ground Crew (Unknown)
2nd from left: Air Gunner (Sid Andrews)
3rd from left: Pilot Sqnldr (P. Birch).
4th from left: Navigator (W T Gray.
5th from left: Air Bomber (F/L wood).
6th from left: Wirless Operator ( P/O Allen).
7th from left: Mid Upper Gunner (F/L Trevor Roper).
8th from left: Rear Gunner (Sgt Hartman).
9th from left: Flight Engineer (F/S Branch).
10th & 11th: Ground Crew (Unknown)
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Funny how these things go, I was only thinking about this thread this afternoon. I was rummaging in a shed on the farm and in a box of 78s found a copy of The Donkey Serenade :)
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Thought I ought to bump my post up again as there are probably many new members that could well be interested if not actually having have relatives involved.
Please start at page one and read through all the posts if you will.
Please definitely read through the entire 11 pages of posts before posting comments to avoid needless repetition. Thankyou.
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Thought I ought to bump my post up again as there are probably many new members that could well be interested, if not actually having have relatives involved.
Please start at page one and read through all the posts if you will.
Hopefully one of you will find an ancestor among the Crew.
Please definitely read through the entire 11 pages of posts before posting comments to avoid needless repetition.All questions have been answered.
Thankyou.
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Hi Roger...I have followed this post from the beginning and always enjoy reading the various helpful posts and the resultant outcome. I didn't see a link to this so hope there is something of interest for you:
http://www.no-50-and-no-61-squadrons-association.co.uk/archive-photo-s/
Apologies if you have already seen it but at least this will raise your very interesting post.
May I suggest that you consider changing the title to include the Year, Aircraft and Squadron in order to reach a wider audience, you will need to use the "Report To Moderator " button to request this.
This topic has had over 26,000 views :o
Carol
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Zoombie thread
grandarog, the names are still not in order on the photo
L to R=
grnd crew unknown
Sid Andrews
E C Wood
W T Gray with the Dog infront
P Birch
?
Trevor Roper
S Allen ?
?
?
?
have a ganders on 'friends of RAF skellingthorpe'..... on a certain social disease, I mean media site.
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I just stumbled across this topic by chance. Fascinating reading and it once again proves the skills of the RootsChat's detectives.
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Thought I ought to bump my post up again as there are probably many new members that could well be interested, if not actually having have relatives involved.
Please start at page one and read through all the posts if you will.
Hopefully one of you will find an ancestor among the Crew.
Please definitely read through the entire 11 pages of posts before posting comments to avoid needless repetition.All questions have been answered.
Thankyou.