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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: forthefamily on Friday 23 May 08 03:12 BST (UK)

Title: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: forthefamily on Friday 23 May 08 03:12 BST (UK)
Ok I have this person that I cannot find but I think it may be because I'm looking in the wrong place....

Where oh where are these places  ???

Ashton Under Lyne and Ashton under Lyme...I google and get conflicting info....I read somewhere that they are the same place  :-X  Needless to say that was confusing  :o

On the various census that I'm looking at it says that the person was from Lancashire and then from Staffordshire..... ???

I'm lost. Help  :P

mab
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: geniecolgan on Friday 23 May 08 05:21 BST (UK)
Hi Mab,

there are two places .....

Ashton-under-Lyne is in Greater Manchester, Lanc's.

but there is a village of Ashton-under-Lyme in the Forrest of Lime, Staff's.
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: forthefamily on Friday 23 May 08 06:18 BST (UK)
Thanks my friend ......I think I'm having an Ernest moment  ;D  :P :-X :-X I cannot find them.... it's possibly a scavenger hunt thingy......I've exhausted every  possible trick I know trying to figure it out and find them  ;D

mab
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: geniecolgan on Friday 23 May 08 06:23 BST (UK)
Well, you know ALL the tricks so they must be hiding on purpose ;D

Stick 'em on here, someone will have a go.
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: stanmapstone on Friday 23 May 08 10:44 BST (UK)
Hi Mab,

but there is a village of Ashton-under-Lyme in the Forrest of Lime, Staff's.

I'd be interested to know where it is as I cannot find it listed in any gazetteer or directory  :) There is Newcastle-under-Lyme in Staffordshire.

As for Ashton-under-Lyme and Ashton-under-Lyne, it is the same place.
There is some confusion over the origin of the "Lyne" element. A number of sources suggest that it refers to the place being under the line of the nearby Pennine hills. However, the name has only been spelt this way in modern times so this explanation seems unlikely.

One document of 1422 refers to the town as "Ashton sub Lima". Ashton later became known as "Ashton under Lyme". The name seems to have become changed to "Ashton under Lyne" by the time of the Victorian era.

http://www.ashton-under-lyne.com/history/name.htm


Stan
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: forthefamily on Friday 23 May 08 15:52 BST (UK)
Ah Stan...now you see my dilemma....... :P I'm trying to find an Arabella Dooley in 1841 to prove a theory I have about her family but I can't...

1841 - not found
1851 - she's from Ashton under Line, Lancashire
1861 - Ashton, Lancashire
1871 - not found
1881 - not found
1891 - Ashton under Lyme, Lancashire
1901 - Ashton under Lyme, Staffordshire

I suspect that part of the 1841 census I need is missing and that's why I'm having so much difficulty.

mab
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: Necromancer on Friday 23 May 08 16:05 BST (UK)
Hi Mab, I suspect the 1901 Enumerator copying from his Household schedules inserted 'Sta' in front of Ashton as her PoB and thus interpreted it as Ashton under Lyme, Staffs.


According to the 1841, the Parish was :-


Civil Parish: Ashton Under Lyne 
Hundred: Salford 
County/Island: Lancashire 
 
Registration district: Ashton and Oldham 
Sub registration districts:
Ashton Town 
Audenshaw and Droylsden 
Hartshead 
Knott Lanes 



whatever, i cant see her at the moment .... given her sisters PoB, they ought to be in the Liverpool area ......
 

Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: geniecolgan on Friday 23 May 08 16:34 BST (UK)
Stan,

I stand corrected  :-[  The ref I found was "unsourced" and therefore unreliable.

Ashton-under-Lyme or Line must refer to the Ashton in the Greater Manchester, Lanc's area.  :)

Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: forthefamily on Friday 23 May 08 17:48 BST (UK)
Thank you Newfster  ;D ...and Genie and Stan

The Dooleys have been a pain to find..... :-X

mab
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: Richard Knott on Friday 23 May 08 18:24 BST (UK)
Indexed under Isabella:

1881   RG11/3615
Arabella Dooley, 37, unm, needlewoman, b Ashton under Line


There is a Bellia Dooley in 1871, age 27, living in the right area (Toxteth) but I don't think it's her.

Richard
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: forthefamily on Friday 23 May 08 19:14 BST (UK)
Hi Richard...that's got to be her.....but I think she's fibbing about about her age  ;)

She was 14 on the 1851 census   ::)

Thank you so much for your help.

mab

Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: Wilbo2k7 on Sunday 12 October 08 14:01 BST (UK)
Hi mate im from Ashton-under-lyne Lancashire in Greater manchester and it was definately never called under line/lyme thats staffordshire, its much more likely that the guy writing down the information wrote it down wrong. hope that helps.  :)
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 12 October 08 14:12 BST (UK)
Hi mate im from Ashton-under-lyne Lancashire in Greater manchester and it was definately never called under line/lyme thats staffordshire, its much more likely that the guy writing down the information wrote it down wrong. hope that helps.  :)

As previously posted
One document of 1422 refers to the town as "Ashton sub Lima". Ashton later became known as "Ashton under Lyme".  The name seems to have become changed to "Ashton under Lyne" by the time of the Victorian era.
http://www.ashton-under-lyne.com/history/name.htm


There is no Ashton under Line/Lyme in Staffordshire.

Stan
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 12 October 08 14:25 BST (UK)
If you search for Ashton under Lyme in http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp you will get 15 catalogues to match Ashton under Lyme
For example
Greater Manchester County Record Office
FILE - George Formby senior, 1915. A big music hall star at the turn of the century. A Lancashire comedian from Ashton-Under-Lyme he sang comic songs of a morbid nature. He had a lung condition and incorporated his cough into his act. - ref.  1705/216  - date: 1915

Stan
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: Wilbo2k7 on Sunday 12 October 08 23:58 BST (UK)
Thats a misprint too mate, George Formby senior is also definately from Ashton-under-lyne lancashire, greater manchester :) the only famous people we have are him and Geoff hurst so its defo true  :D
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: forthefamily on Monday 13 October 08 03:49 BST (UK)
I liked the George Formby who played the uke  ;D I remember all his black and white movies on TV...... errr......then again we didn't have a colour TV..... hmmmm   :D   

However Arabella and her family are still out there somewhere....rattling around in the 1841 census  :-\ :'(

As her family were RC and classified as dissenters...I have learned a lot since my first post  ;)...I did a bit of research. She was probably baptized at St. Mary's which was and still is a RC church in the region. I have been in touch with the parish priest and he has a CD of the registry records in the day which I can purchase for a modest sum  ;D

mab
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 13 October 08 11:27 BST (UK)
Ok, mate, its a misprint I suppose all the other references to Ashton under Lyme are misprints as well  :)

Lancashire Record Office: Lancashire County Quarter Sessions
FILE - ROLL 30 - ref.  QDD/30 [n.d.]
         item: Edmund Chaderton of Nuthurste, gent., to John Holcrofte of Lymehurste in Ashton-under-Lyme, gent. -- Nuthurst and Moston - ref.  QDD/30/m12  - date: 14 June 1623

Cheshire and Chester Archives and Local Studies Service
1630
   FILE - ASHTON UNDER LYME - ref.  44. [n.d.]
   FILE - ASHTON UNDER LYME - ref.  51. [n.d.]


and so on.

Stan
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 13 October 08 13:55 BST (UK)
ASHTON-UNDER-LYNE
Eston, 1212; Ashton, 1277; Aston, 1278; Asshton, Asheton, Assheton, 1292; Ashton-under-Lyme, 1307; Assheton-under-Lyme, 1345. Lyne, for Lyme or Lime, seems to be modern.

From: 'The parish of Ashton-under-Lyne: Introduction, manor & boroughs', A History of the County of Lancaster: Volume 4 (1911), pp. 338-347. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=41438&strquery=ashton under lyme. Date accessed: 13 October 2008.


Stan
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: jethorp on Monday 13 October 08 16:34 BST (UK)
hi, I had this problem too!! so I went on Cheshire bmd's (Ashton records are kept at Tameside,and thats classed as Cheshire) and found all of the rellies from Ashton-u-lyne.I also have rellies from Chadderton and Nuthurst they were classed as the same area but are in fact 5mls apart, Chadderton is now in Oldham and Nuthurst is in NEW moston,not Moston.
Title: Re: Help me I'm confused...
Post by: forthefamily on Monday 13 October 08 16:49 BST (UK)
Thanks jethorp,

I looked there as well but she's not there  :-\

mab