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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Somerset Lookup Requests => Somerset => England => Somerset Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: genuisscuffy on Tuesday 13 May 08 19:53 BST (UK)
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I have my GGGrandfathers birth cert back and it states 1841 Walcot, Bath 21/1/1841 Charles Edwin Hanney son of James Hanney and Elizabeth Hanney formerly Dodd was born - can anyone find anything else out about James and Elizabeth Hanney for me (Hanney may be spelt Hanney or Hannay they seem to change it every now and then!) Thank you so much.
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Hi genuisscuffy
Any use?
1841
HO107/970/2 6 5
Walcot, Somerset
James Hanney, 35, Butcher
Elizabeth, 35
James, 12
William, 8
Henery, 6
Charles, 4 months
All born in county except for Elizabeth.
:)
edited to correct Elizabeth's age - she's 35
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1851
HO107/1941 284 46
Bath St Michael, Somerset
7 Old Orchard
Margaret Dodd, head, wid, 67, Laundress, b. Cheshire Newton Mon
William Hanney, grandson, 17, Errand Boy, b. Bath Somerset
Charles, grandson, 9, scholar, b. do.
Martha, granddau, 7, scholar, b. do.
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So were they living with Elizabeths Mother?
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Living or just staying on census night, we can't know! :)
I'm wondering if this is Elizabeth ...
1851
HO107/1941 63 18
Bath St James, Somerset
Bath Hospital
Elizabeth Hanney, serv, mar, 44, Nurse, b. Cheshire Chester
also in the hospital:
Henry Hanney, serv, 15, Surgery Boy, b. Somerset Bath
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So on the night of the census Elizabeth and Henry were working in the hospital? Surgery Boy - wonder what that would entail??
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So James Hanney had disappeared on the 1851 census?
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LOL, I need a bit of time to search and type! :P ;D
Possible for James?
1851
HO107/1942 231 4
Lincombe and Widcombe, Somerset
1 Regent Terrace
James Hanney, lodger, unm, 50, labourer (Butcher's), b. Bath
He's down as unmarried, mind :-\
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Sorry! ;D This is just so exciting!!!
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No prob! ;D
If we have the right Elizabeth in 1851 then I guess this should be her in 1861:
RG9/1686 107 23
Bath St James
United Hospital
Elizabeth Hannay, nurse, wid, 55, Nurse, b. Cheshire Chester
1871
RG10/2484 12 17
Lyncombe and Widcombe, Somerset
Claverton Building
Elizabeth Hanney, head, wid, 65, Retired Nurse, b. Chester
Martha J, dau, unm, 27, Shop Assistant Drapery, b. Bath
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Oh Bless, so he died? She worked all her life as a nurse - do you know what the Claverton Building is? Is it a hospital? or just a large building?
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Doesn't look like a hospital (she's retired too) - something like a block of flats maybe - there are several households at Claverton Building (or Buildings maybe?) - someone local will be able to help I'm sure :)
This looks like her death (found on FreeBMD) :
Elizabeth Hanney age 66
Dec 1872 Bath 5c 430
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Thank you for all your help this evening can I be really cheeky and ask if you know when she was born? The Dec 1872 isnt her birth date is it?
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December quarter 1872 is when her death was registered.
This could be Elizabeth's dad:
1841
HO107/969/7 21 37
Bath St Michael, Somerset
Old Orchard
Ralph Dodd, 55, Coroner's Officer, not born in county
Margaret, 55, not born in county
Charles Edwin, 15, Tailor's Apprentice, born in county
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Possible christening ;)
(IGI extracted record, found on www.familysearch.org)
Elizabeth Dodd
Christening 30 April 1806 St John The Baptist'S, Chester, Cheshire
Father Ralph Dodd
Mother Margaret Dodd
*Possible* siblings?
HENRY DODD Christening 10 DEC 1815 Bath Abbey, Bath, Somerset
Father RALPH DODD, Mother MARGARET
JOHN DODD Christening 23 MAR 1818 Bath Abbey, Bath, Somerset
Father RALPH DODD, Mother MARGARET
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Ralph is quite an unusual name for that time isnt it?
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Someone will tell us all about the statistics for the name Ralph - as an amateur in such things I'd just say it was rarer than John and William :P
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Thank you so much for your help it is much appreciated. :)
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I searched for Martha in 1861 and uncovered one more sister for Charles! (Not sure where she is hiding on earlier - or later! - census, and I can't see her marriage either! ???)
1861
RG9/1687 14 22 & 23
Bath ST James, Somerset
18 St James Parade
William Knight, head, 24, Brass Finisher, b. Bath
Ellen M, wife, 26, Mantle Maker, b. do.
Ellen Mary, dau, 1, b. do.
Martha J Hannay, sister in law, 17, Milliner, b. do.
Margaret Dodd, grandmother, wid, 77, b. Cheshire Chester
:)
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I'm having a look at the other siblings.
James is in the army in Lancashire in 1851. As far as I can tell he marries a widow, Mary Ann Langley, in 1852 and is a Police Constable at Southwark in 1861. Possible death James Ralph Hannay, age 38, in Mar 1867 Bermondsey.
Shout if you want census details (1861: RG9/330 23 39; widow & children 1871: RG10/635 122 57)
William marries a Sarah (maybe Williams). 3 children shown in 1861 (RG9/1687 35 5). Widowed by 1871 (RG10/2481 73 41) Possible death age 53 in Mar 1888, Bath
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Thank you so much - everything you find is greatfully received - I haveno living relatives left (except my own two children) so it is nice to see where I orginated from! :)
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James
1851
HO107/2189 90 11
Everton, Lancashire
Salisbury Street
James Hannay, unm, 22, Private 91st Regiment, b. Somerset Bath
1861
RG9/330 22 38
Southwark St George The Martyr, Surrey
4 Peter? Street
James K? Hanney, head, 30, Police constable, b. Somersetshire Bath
Mary Ann, wife, 31, b. Cirencester Gloucestershire
Anna M, dau, 13, b. Somersetshire Bath
Ellen M, dau, 7, b. do.
Eliza Jane, dau, 2, b. Middlesex London
I suppose only the last 2 children were James' :)
1871
RG10/635 122 57
St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
(very bad image - can't read address)
Mary A Hanney, head, wid, 43, Charwoman, b. Cirencester Gloucestershire
Ellen M, dau, 18, Charwoman, b. Somerset Bath
Eliza J, dau, 12, Charwoman, b. Bermondsey Surrey
James R, son, 8, b. do.
Elizabeth, dau, 5, b. do.
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William
1861
RG9/1687 35 5
Bath St James, Somerset
12 Corn Street
Willam Hanny, head, 27, Porter, b. Bath
Sarah, wife, 28, b. Gloucester North Common
John, son, 5, scholar, b. Bath
William, son, 2, scholar, b. do.
Elizabeth E A, dau, 7 mo, b. do.
1871
RG11/2439 44 2
Bath St James, Somerset
5 St James Place
William Hanney, head, wid, 40, Labourer Gas Works, birthplace not known
William, son, 12, b. Bath
Bettie, dau, 10, b. do.
1881
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=18803401
RG11/2439 44 2
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and finally Henry ...
1861
RG9/4105 29 3
Swansea, Glamorgan
5 Willow Court
Henry Hanney, 26, Labourer, b. Bath
Sarah, wife, 23
Henry, son, 3, b. Bath
Kate, dau, 1, b. do.
1871
RG10/2482 48 32 & 33
St Michael, Somerset
4 Cornwall Row
Henry Hanney, head, 36, Porter, b. Somerset Bath
Sarah, wife, 32, Charwoman, b. do.
Henry, son, 14, Errand Boy, b. do.
Kate, dau, 11, b. do.
Charles, son, 8, b. do.
Florence, dau, 6, b. do.
Sydney, son, 3, b. do.
Frank, son, 4 mo, b. do.
He's not at home in 1881 but Sarah is shown as married:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=18817604
RG11/2442 28 8
If this is his death:
Henry Jacob Hanney age 51 - Dec 1886 Bath 5c 417
then this is a likely marriage: Henry Jacob Hanney - Sarah Bishop Dec 1858 Swansea 11a 727
You do have your Charles on every census I suppose? :)
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Not all, I knew he was the father of my GGrandmother and that he was born in Bath - but somewhere along the line the Hannay/Hanneys became Montagues (when they changed their names I'm not sure) but all the children have middle names of Hannay and James was the first Hannay I had.
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Was your ggmother Emma M Hanney?
Charles seems to be Hanney until 1901 ???
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No my GGrandmother was Elizabeth Sarah Montague 1886- Charles Hanney married(?) a Mary Force and Elizabeth and Frederick were his children along with quite a few others. She was born in Southsea, Portsmouth, Hants (also known as Portsea Island)
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Well, I'm beginning to wonder if we are tracing the right people :P
Where is your Elizabeth in 1891?
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Portsmouth
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Ok, as Bessie, right?
So this is the family in 1881, called Force, before Mary was widowed - husband Charles Force.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=6587966
RG11/1150 54 28
Given Mary is widowed in 1891, she married Mr Henney or Montague between 1881 and 1891 and was widowed again, correct?
I'm not sure he was the Charles Henney born Bath that we were tracing because I do believe he is still alive in 1901! ???
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I've got her down as married to Henry Force - but Charles also married an Alice Bishop and had children by him too (20/5/1865) and they had Ellen and Alice - with Mary Force he had Evelyn, Lilian, Harry, William, Elizabeth, Frederick and Henry
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Blimey you've completely lost me now! Which Charles is the father of all those kids? Charles Force born 1840 Bristol? ???
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Charles Edwin Hanney born 1840 was the father of all the children - his father was James Hanney. It is really complicated because he also had a Charles Hannay (son) but we are not sure which of the women he was born to, either Mary Force or Alice Bishop. Further back you mentioned a marriage between Henry Jacob Hanney and Sarah Bishop - it would seem odd two brothers marrying women with same surnames (sisters?)
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I think we are looking at the right people because my Charles Edwin was born in Bath to a James Hannay - he was in the circus and ended up moving around lots.
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He was also in the Court roundup for stealing from the Theatre Royal Bath (15lbs of horsehair? - I've been told they used to stuff the seats with it so maybe his settee at home wasnt very comfortable?) :-\
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Well, what do you make of this chap then? :-\
1901
RG13/127 141 21
Hampstead, London
Henry Farbairn, head, Joinr Carpenter, b. Stepney
Emma M, wife, 27, b do.
Stanley L, son, 1 mo, b. do.
Charles Hanney, father in law, wid, 60, Hydraulic Engineer, b. Somerset Bath
1881:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=15336164
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No I dont think hes ours - I've got Charles Edwin as dying in 1889 in Portsea Island because my Elizabeth was only 3 years old
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I clicked on your link and his surname was Hannsey not Hanney
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Yes but the image isn't clear (and he's clearly the same man as in 1901 where the surname IS clear) :)
So are we assuming now that Charles Force is Charles Hanney aka Charles Montague? :P Any idea where the family are hiding in 1871? ???
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I know that at some point he deserted his kids because he was in trouble with the Bath Court Sessions (found not guilty but we cant find out for what) maybe he just decided to come south. In the end he was a Circus Manager, a Commissioning Agent and finally a Photographer! Obviously a very busy man!! - I've been trying to work it out on and off for about 2 years now so dont worry if it gets you confused!!
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It does seem that when he lives with a woman he takes on their surname - because Eveline and the children are his children. Maybe hes on the run!! (Dont you wish you could just ask them ;))
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I just wanted to say Thanks for what you have done - I've got to go and put my son to bed!! so thanks and goodnight!! :)
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This is a big headache! ;D
So - may I ask which certificates you actually have? The marriage cert to Alice, I suppose, giving his father's name as James? Who were the witnesses - any siblings?
Now you were wondering whose child Charles born ca. 1867 was. I suppose he belonged to Alice:
1871
RG10/2482 40 15
Bath St Michael, Somerset
Allice Hanney, head, wid, 28, Laundress, b. Gloucester
Ellen, dau, 6, scholar, b. Somerset Bath
Charles, son, 3, scholar, b. do.
Allice, dau, 1, b. do.
Funny that Charles took the boy with him later! I wonder if she died early for him to do so?
I see Alice is with her Bishop grandparents in 1881:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=18793207
RG11/2437 56 10
Anyway in the meantime, in 1871, Mary Force is in service (a cook), unm, age 22 at Wymering Hampshire.
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Hi, I just wanted to say "Thank you" again you've been a great help and it is very much appreciated. :)
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Further information on this new thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,316758.0/topicseen.html
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as this the chew manga Hanney Family?
Whilst hunting down my Charles edwin hanney from bath 1841, I accidentally found
Charles Hanney 1820 ISH from Somerset, they were both transported have the crimes descriptions , trials,
Elder Charles have his requests to marry , marriage cert, the pairs wills
Charles remarried as a widow in 1850 aged 31 new wife 21 both were widows
New wife , Mary Ann Jordan /Marion Jordan
She has a daughter there they have a couple more,