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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Paul Caswell on Sunday 11 May 08 16:05 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I dont understand why these families did this. Perhaps someone has an idea.
I have two families:
Isaac Stockley b1799 m Jane Roe
Children:
Mary Williams Stockley b1822
Jane Williams Stockley b1823
Margaret Williams Stockley b1825
Sarah Williams Stockley b1827
Not sure where the Williams comes from as yet.
Joh Stockley b1795 m Jane Richards
Children:
William Richards Stockley b1827
James Richards Stockley b1829
Caroline Richards Stockley b1831
Mary Jane Richards Stockley b1833
We have all come across a few families that remember mothers maiden name or grandparents names through middle names of their children but usually there is just one or two of the children like this. Here I have two contemporary families naming ALL of their children this way.
Strange....
Paul
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In my tree, Phillips was a middle name for many years.
It is not a family name but it was almost a thank you. One member of the family was living with a Mary Phillips as a servant. From her will, it seems that Mary Phillips, although described as a fish seller was rich enough to own five tenements and have ready cash and household silver. She left most of this wealth to some of my ancestors and left money for education etc of my g.g.grandmother. Messuages (dwelling houses) and tenements, land and hereditaments were assigned to my g.g.grandmother and her heirs forever. Unfortunately, my g.grandmother married an alcoholic and all her money disappeared. ::)
My mother remembered hearing that some of my g.g.gran's children were well educated and had "posh" accents and the younger ones, after the money had disappeared had a normal education and Manchester accents.
Lizzie
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My husband was at school with three brothers having both their second and third middle names in common.
I have just taken a look at Ancestry and the youngest is on there (1928 birth)
and his mothers maiden name is their second middle name.( the first being a mans name)
OH always thought that they had an hyphenated surname, but it is only as an intial on the entry.
It is one of his memories which have stuck,with me, as their first names were straight out of P.G.Wodehouse!!
My Grandpa and two of his brothers had Wyllie as a second or third name.Their mothers maiden name, and the other two had Augustus, but no idea why the latter.
Spring
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I know of a family where the 3 sons - born 1940s-50s - had the same middle name, so did their father and grandfather. The name sounds like a surname, so maybe it was great-grandmother's maiden name ??? ??? As far as I know, it did not get passed on!
sula
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Gt grandfather had the middle name Sparke, his mother's maiden name. I believe the knowledge of this got lost and several children and grandchildren inherited this as a middle name. Folklore then evolved that it would bring wealth to the child with this middle name as the Pearson's were of wealthy stock! This part of the folklore has yet to be proven!
Sallysmum
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I just found a family where every child had the same middle name - it was the mother's maiden name 8) 8) - so very useful - wish my families had done the same!
Trish
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::) perhaps middle name was the maiden name of the mother and there should be a - between the middle and last name, or the children were from a first marriage and just tacked on the step fathers surame to theirs which would make their surname now look like a middle name ? just a thought
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I have 3 cousins, all siblings, who have the same two middle names (their grandparents surnames).
One middle name that carried down the male line in our family, until my uncle died 3 years ago, was initially what started me off on my family history, to find out who it originally belonged to.
justmej
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Isaac Stockley b1799 m Jane Roe
Children:
Mary Williams Stockley b1822
Jane Williams Stockley b1823
Margaret Williams Stockley b1825
Sarah Williams Stockley b1827
Joh Stockley b1795 m Jane Richards
Children:
William Richards Stockley b1827
James Richards Stockley b1829
Caroline Richards Stockley b1831
Mary Jane Richards Stockley b1833
Am wondering where the above information came from- did you see it in the original source or a transcript, IGI, etc.? as it looks almost like mother's name has been inserted as a middle name.
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My Great Grandmother and her 6 siblings all had the same middle name.
It was their mothers maiden surname.
It seemed to be the thing to do in those days. I wonder why? ???
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maybe if there were no male children it would be a way of bringing the name forward a generation.
also if the parents were unmarried this was another reason to have a surname as a middle name.
at least it helps you pick out you family members for the BMD
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I have several branches on my tree who used the mothers maiden name as a middle name and a couple where the name has been passed down through the generations
Least it makes them easier to find at times
Willow x
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My late husbands father had an unusual middle name. :-\
I've traced it back about three generations, and it seems that it was the surname of a well-to-do 'gentleman' who had his way with my hubbys great great grandmother when she was a young girl. :o
Of course he was already married, so couldn't make an honest woman of her! >:(
The name has come down the generations, although my husband didn't have it, but
our son has it and his son has it also. :)
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My daughter's 3 children all have the same middle name, not for any particular reason. When the second was born, they decided to give her the same middle name as the first. When the third was born, I said 'well you may as well continue the tradition and give him the name as well'. It isn't a surname or anything.
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i remember watching a programme a little while ago and in this programme the son was called one name but to recieve money from will there were conditions that he changed his name to that of his grandmother, not quite the same but i wonder if 'wills' had anything to do with it.
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A bit off the original point, but my great uncle, Newark Burton, was a lad from NRY who went to the USA. He started off as a clerk, but became a lawyer and was given the title "Judge" when he died.
He was christened Newark Burton but after a few years in the USA he started using his Mother's maiden name as a middle name. Pressumably because he was tapping into a historic American family? He is known as N L Burton or Newark Lincoln Burton for the latter part of his life.
There is a family tradition that my father's family were related to Abraham Lincoln by marriage. I cannot substantiate this and suspect it was just a useful myth.
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Just to add my bit, my family all have the middle name of WENLOCK, including myself. I've given this name to both our children as well. The furthest I've got with this name is 1750, & this fellow still carries the middle name. I'm still hopefull of finding where this name came from. Could be a maiden name? At least when I find someone having this middle name, I KNOW I'm on the right track!! ;D
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I have seen this happen as a way of indentifying the real father where there has been illegitimacy somewhere down the line.
I had on family where there was a man living with his 'housekeeper' and loads of housekeeper's children all with his surname as their middle name. After he died they actually used his surname for census entries. But for BMD registration they went back to using their mother's name with their father's name as middle name.
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All my cousins have the same middle name, it is my great-granmothers surname, I really like the idea of this, and if I had known about it sooner I would have used the name for my children, it keeps the family name ticking over.
Marg
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I think it's probably the mother's maiden name - this happened in my husband's family for a few generations, and eventually the two names became hyphenated, and therefore passed down the generations.
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Goodness, this is very interesting to see everybody's experiences!!
Keep them comin!! Gives food for thought indeed! ;D
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Gt grandfather had the middle name Sparke, his mother's maiden name. I believe the knowledge of this got lost and several children and grandchildren inherited this as a middle name. Folklore then evolved that it would bring wealth to the child with this middle name as the Pearson's were of wealthy stock! This part of the folklore has yet to be proven!
Sallysmum
Re carrying on the name Sparke. Second cousin Arthur and his wife Lucy weren't blessed with children so they decided to carry on family tradition and name their dog Sparke. It didn't go down too well with the Pearsons........
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I am a 5th generation with Vellacott as a middle name - post original marriage. I have to say that some of my siblings have and some have not carried the tradition on. Me, I carried it on with my kids!!
Spark
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I have one individual on my tree whose second name turned out to be the maiden name of her maternal grandmother. Very helpful.....specially since her father was a Smith and her mother an Owens ::) I wish I had more like that...... ;D
mab
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Isaac Stockley b1799 m Jane Roe
Children:
Mary Williams Stockley b1822
Jane Williams Stockley b1823
Margaret Williams Stockley b1825
Sarah Williams Stockley b1827
Joh Stockley b1795 m Jane Richards
Children:
William Richards Stockley b1827
James Richards Stockley b1829
Caroline Richards Stockley b1831
Mary Jane Richards Stockley b1833
Am wondering where the above information came from- did you see it in the original source or a transcript, IGI, etc.? as it looks almost like mother's name has been inserted as a middle name.
Forgive me, my notifications stopped for a while.
These all came from Baptism records on the Dorset OPC (Williams' from Corfe Castle, Richards' from Kingston) . All bishops transcripts I believe so moderately reliable.
Paul
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My OH's father, Arthur, had the middle name MARSDEN.
Neither he nor his wife had any idea why that was, and although he'd asked the family, he got a reply that indicated he shouldn't have asked (even about his own name :o)
When I did the research back through the family, I found that Arthur's own father had been born illegitimate, and that the Marsden came from the man his mother subsequently married, and who brought him up - although he married under his mother's surname and the family is still called that name.
Whilst I can see that the family may have wanted to keep the illegitimacy quiet, what surprises me is that Arthur never knew his grandparents' surname was MARSDEN and not his own surname.
Sadly found this out after Arthur had died. Mind you, not sure he would have appreciated it................. :-\
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I've got two brothers with the same middle name but I've never found out how they came by it ::) It's hiiden in the mists of old Ireland I think :-\
Charles Templeton Colgan b.1876
Wm. John Templeton Colgan b.1877
Genie :)
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Hi There
Just to Say my Great Grandmothers maiden name was Edden.One of Her Sons had Edden as a first
name and two of the others had it as a second name .My dad also had Edden as a second name .
Tarnya
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I have an aunt who gave her three daughters the same middle name, Lee, after my grandfather Leo. Then her youngest daughter had children. Her three daughters all have Lee as a middle name and her son's is Leo. I call it overkill, but what can you do?
Kath
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My two daughters both have the middle name Louise.
When I had my eldest daughter I let my mum choose her middle name.
Then 12 years later when I had my second daughter I gave her the same middle name so that they would have a 'bond' (they have different surnames)
My eldest thinks its quite cool and has promised to pass it on to her daughter(s)
I think I've unintentionally started a family tradition! 8)
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Well i have 6 sisters and 1 brother thank goodness none inherited Edden as a middle name .
My dad said on many occasions that his only christian name was George and the Edden -Smith his Surname but Edden was dropped and used as a middle name .
As my lot were all Farm Labourers and not Squires or Landowners as one of my Grandsons says
I DON'T THINK SO LOL.
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Have one family in my lot where all the daughters had the second name Ann, which was their mothers first name, five girls I think. There were two sons who had William as a second name, which was their fathers first name. The younger son's first name was Shaftesbury, not sure where that came from.
The use of a surname as a second name is prevalent in most of my lines. It seems to have been for a number of reasons. Firstly to carry the name on, usually the mothers maiden name. The second one was so the grandmother would leave some money, as someone said earlier.
My grandmother was Evangeline Faulconer Clarke
Her mother was Miriam Mannington Faulconer
Her mother was Mary Waite Mannington
Her grandmother was Mary Waite.
Miriam Mannington Faulconers grandfather was Stephen Sawyer Faulconer, whose great grandfather was Stephen Sawyer.
Ian C
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Hi everyone,
I'm new here so I hope you don't mind me butting in but I find this a very interesting thread.
I gave my first son the middle name Geoffrey after his dad, in case I only had one son.
When the second son was born he too got the same middle name in case in later years he felt that his older brother was the favourite of his father and so got his name.
By the time I had my third son, well what else could I do ? I couldn't make favorites, so he also got his dad's name as a middle name ::)
I am not having any more kids, but I was recently informed that there has not been a girl born on my husband's side of the family for over 100 years.
I wish I had been told sooner :P ;D ;D ;D
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Good name, is Geoffrey! Can't have too many ;)
meles
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The using of the mother's maiden name as a middle name has happened on numerous branches of my family tree. Two families in the localities the Wilds and Weeklys intermarried quite a few times and the resulting families all had a tendency to use this convention so there are a number of Weekly Wilds on the tree but it is not a hyphenated surname. Another branch I recently discovered used the middle name Andrews both down and across several generations. It seemed to be quite a common occurrence in the 1800's
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It was (and still is) very common in Scotland to have the mother's maiden name as a middle name. My gt-grandmother's maiden name was Thomson, and at least three of her sons had Thomson as a middle name. My grandmother, however, was given the maiden names of her grandmother and great-grandmother as middle names.
I'm afraid I didn't follow in the tradition, but was instead given my aunt's first name as my middle name.
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In my family (both sides of whom the majority are Scottish) the majority of us are either named after grandparents whether with first names or surnames.
I have my Granny's maiden surname as a middle name...hated it when I was growing up but am now proud of it! And when I asked for an explanation my Dad just said that someone had to have it.....
My big sister got our mum's middle name as a middle name and my little sister got Susan which my big sister insisted on as she was reading 'Peter and Susan books at the time, poor girl :o
Anyway I have found the name BRYCE keeps cropping up as a middle name and haven't really got to the bottom of it yet. Plus a couple of surnames have been given as first names; BRYCE again and HYSLOP.... Makes it a lot easier to link siblings :)
Tx
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I have seen this happen as a way of indentifying the real father where there has been illegitimacy somewhere down the line.
I had on family where there was a man living with his 'housekeeper' and loads of housekeeper's children all with his surname as their middle name. After he died they actually used his surname for census entries. But for BMD registration they went back to using their mother's name with their father's name as middle name.
I have an ancestor ' father unknown ' except that he has the middle name Blackburn and I've thought for some time that this must be his fathers name.
Woody.
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I have an ancestor who was married to a shoemaker. They had 3 children and then he disappears. She went on to have 4 more children, all illegimate. 2 of the boys had a short name but the 3 had a double name. Incidently the same name as a neighbour, who was also a shoemaker. The man had a family. Would be great to find decendents and compare DNA.
Mary.
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I have also found in my tree that mother's maiden name was given to four children, three females and one male. An example is Mary POWLSON Rees, her mum was Emma Powlson. Makes research a lot easier for me. Also my grandfather had the name of Barnett as his middle name, which was his mum's maiden name. My mum never knew her father and was always lead to believe that her birth name was double barrelled. Pity she is not here to see what I have found out. She would of been shocked lol. She was later adopted by her step father.
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I am a 5th generation with Vellacott as a middle name - post original marriage. I have to say that some of my siblings have and some have not carried the tradition on. Me, I carried it on with my kids!!
Spark
I am new to this forum, but I am looking for my husbands grandfather named tom Vellacott. He fell off the grid in 1920 when his wife died giving birth to twins then adopted them both out. Cannot find a trace of him anywhere. I was wondering since your middle name is Vellacott, maybe somewhere we might be able to find a link. any help would be appreciated, or a push in the right direction. I live in Texas and not real familiar with the area although we go often to the UK to visit Daughters. Tom was born in Somerset in 1896, married Dorca Seally in Norton Fitzwarren in 1920.
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Hi There
Just to Say my Great Grandmothers maiden name was Edden.One of Her Sons had Edden as a first
name and two of the others had it as a second name .My dad also had Edden as a second name .
Tarnya
I know it's a long time since you posted this but wanted to say that my Grandmother's maiden name was Edden. So far I've found 12 of the Eddens, right back to 1807 with the middle name of 'Rose'. Most of these are men so I'm guessing it's the surname Rose and not just a foible to give the males a female middle name! Haven't yet found out where it came from but it gets very confusing having four Samuel Rose Eddens and four William Rose Eddens in my tree ???
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Posted on another board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,456173.0.html
Willow x
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It's a long shot, but I have some of my family with a very similar name. My great X2 grandfather was a Rice Williams. He was from Amlwch in Anglesey. He married several times, and on at least one marriage certificate he stated his father was an Edward Stockley, and on another Edward Williams. His siblings mostly seem to be known as Stockley, although one is a William Williams Stockley.
His father Edward Williams Stockley also seemed to use the two names interchangeably. On his death certificate he was Edward Stockley and on the last marriage certificate (he married 3 times, only once after 1837) he was Edward Williams. His father he stated was a William Edward (an example of Welsh patronymics). Censuses again show the two names as being interchangeable. A contemporary diary records Edward Williams Stockley's death naming him as Edward Stockla, and another source talks about him as Stockley's man, but we have no idea who this Stockley might be. Have you made any progress in finding out why your family was called Williams Stockley?
Thank you for any help
Rhiannon
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Hi Rhiannon,
Have you any dates and/or places of birth?
Paul
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Rice Williams was baptised in Amlwch, N Anglesey, in 1820. He married for the first time in 1840 in Caernarfon, for a second time in 1867 in Bangor, and for a third time to my great great grandmother Ellin Griffith in 1868, again in Bangor. He died in 1879 in Deiniolen, near Llanberis. In censuses he usually appears as a tinker.
Edward Stockley or Williams, Rice’s father, was born c 1777 in Llanrhuddlad, NW Anglesey (according to one census). He married for the first time to a Frances Thomas in Llaneilian in 1807 and they had five children, David in 1808, Thomas in 1811, William in 1813, John 1817 – 1830, and Rice 1820. Frances died in 1830 and Edward married for a second time to a Catherine Williams in 1831 in the parish of Ceirchiog in W Anglesey. They had one child, William W Stockley in 1832 in Amlwch . Catherine died in 1848 so Edward married for a third time in 1849 in Amlwch to an Elizabeth Hughes, the widow of Griffith Hughes, a copper smelter. Edward died in 1865, the death certificate stating he was 105 years old! His will was proved in 1873, his son William W Stockley being the executor. Edward usually appears in censuses as a basketmaker.
Hope this proves interesting
Rhiannon
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Hi Rhiannon,
I see your Edward/William is well researched, judging by the detail you have on him. Somehow I doubt we have a connection but let us investigate fully first, just to be sure.
A birth date of 1777 puts him in my family's parents generation or even further back as all mine were born 1822-1827. Their father Isaac was born 1799 and his father Shadrach was born 1766 (all in Corfe Castle) so he was almost certainly not part of the family. Sadly a miss but perhaps ... one day ... someone will make the connection.
Good luck.
Paul