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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: collin on Tuesday 06 May 08 21:48 BST (UK)
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Hello
I sent for a death certificate from Oldham for James Collin who died 1846 aged 56 and was
surprised to learn he was an out pensioner of the Chelsea Hospital formerley of the 6th Regiment of Foot, which was a Warwickshire Regiment.
I had a look at the National Archives site and he is there as James Collins born Oldham
with a reference number WO97/278/73. I would like to know how to go about getting his
service record as I have never done this and find the NA site confusing, I wrote off for my grandads years ago and they just posted the details back.
Thank you Regards Glyn
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Hi Glyn
The early county affiliations of army regiments was not very strong, as most regiments did not have a permanent depot until the 1860s or later. So I would not be put off by the discrepancy between Warwickshire and Oldham. They would have been known as the “6th”, “6th Foot” or “6th Regiment”.
The reference starting WO97 is the microfilm that contains his record. You should contact the NA using the information here - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recordcopying/
I believe they only charge about 40p per page. And it should not be too expensive, as the amount of information they kept was a lot less than 50 years later. You will get his age (in years and months) on enlistment, former occupation and place of birth. But not much in the way of family history information. as wives and children had no standing then.
You should ask for A3 copies rather than A4, as some records can be hard to read.
His records will only give the general areas they served in – Home, India, Canada etc. To get the actual towns you need to look in the Muster and Pay Lists (in WO12), which give month-by-month where each man was, so you can check this against known places of birth for his children. WO12 are original documents and you or your researcher will have to visit Kew. If his papers don’t say where he enlisted you can check to see where the recruiting Sergeants were at the time. But this is for the future.
Another useful link - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm
Ken
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Follow the instructions in Shop Online
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recordcopying/default.aspx?source=ddmenu_shop3
The reference number to quote is WO 97/278 (the final number is not relevant for this purpose) plus the man's name and any other necessary identification.
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Hi
Thank you both for the information, I will have a go and see what turns up, I dont think
there was any family as the death was registered by his sister and there was no family
in the 1841 census. Thanks again Glyn
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Hi Again
I had a go at filling in the form but it said there was a problem either an invalid reference or the documents are unavailable for copying so I have asked what other options are there or is it a dead end. I did find that the 6th were recruiting in lancashire in 1806 so that explains how he
got to be in there. Thanks Again Glyn
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Have you double checked the reference?
Leaving out the space is a common mistake
WO 97/278 ie WO[space]97/278
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Hi
I had another go at it and it said that I was successful so now I am waiting for the estimate
coming through (within 10 days) Thanks Glyn
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Hi Collin
I was interested by your post, as I am looking for a relative called James Collins.
All I know about him is he was born circa 1790/5, was a soldier, a chelsea pensioner, had a daughter called Helen, who was born in East India and married a woman called Ann Grant from Montrose in Scotland.
Is there any chance in a million it's the same man?
I would really appreciate any help as I am totally stuck at present.
Many thanks
M :)
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HI,,RE JAMES COLLIN/COLLINS
James Collins b c1792 joined the 6th foot at manchester age 16...he was born in Oldham and was a weaver by trade.
he enlisted on the 8 nov 1808,,,served as a boy soldier till 1810,,then was a private till 1836.
He served in Portugal for 6 months,Spain 2 years,France 3 years,Cape of good hope 4 years,America 1 year and India for 11 years.
He was discharged in 1836 after 32 years service, ;)
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Hi both
I was surprised to see this topic crop up again after 3 years, sorry M but I dont think it's the same man as I don't think our James ever married or had children. His death was registered
by his sister in 1846 as he had returned to Oldham to his family.
Gortonboy, how did you find that info without having to send for his records?
I thought it was the wrong man too as he joined in 1808 aged 16 and our James was baptised
in 1790 so there's a 2 year difference but his death certificate says he was 56 in 1846 and he
was in the 6th regiment so it must be him.
Thanks Glyn
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hi,,his record is available on the findmypast website ;)
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Hi
thanks for that, I don't think it was available 3 years ago, it gets better as time passes.
Glyn
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there is a record in the military and campaign medal awards for the Napoleonic wars 1790-1815
james collins 6th foot awarded clasps for vittoria and pyrenees...no other details
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You need to be careful as the medal for the Pensinsular War was only announced in 1847, and only men alive in June of that year were entitled to receive it. So the man found should not be a man who died the year before.
http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/militarygeneralservice1793_1814.htm
Ken
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Hi
I just looked in his record and there's no mention of any awards but he was in Portugal,
Spain then France before going to Canada in 1814 for a year then back to France just missing
Waterloo. Regimental details says S.W. France since 1812 so I guess it probably is him.
Thanks Glyn
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Hi Ken
scrub the last post, it can't be him if it was announced in 1847 and he had died in 1846.
As I said, there is no mention of any awards in his record which was written out in 1837.
Thanks Glyn
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Thank you both for all your help re James Collins. It's a pity it's not the same person, but that would have been too easy...LOL
If only I knew where he was born, or when he got married.
Anyhow I really appreciate you both taking time out to reply.
Best wishes to you both. :)
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Good Luck M, hope you find him, I only found out that James Collins was in the army when I decided to get his death certificate, I nearly didn't bother as I had his burial details and assumed
he'd spent his life in Oldham.
Best wishes Glyn
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Thanks Glyn
I only found out my James was a Chelsea Pensioner from his wife's death certificate. Just wish I could find their marriage certificate, then I might be able to get more info on him, as don't know when he was born or died or where....am determined to find out though!!
Many thanks again. X
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I am tracing my ancestory and of particular interest is a James White, 23rd December 1800 in Quebec, 'North America'
He subsequently received a Chelsea Pension and his military records state that he enlisted in the 6th Regiment of Foot at Kinsale, County Cork at the astonishing age of 11 years as a Boy Drummer. The record gives no next of kin or relatives details.
My research of the Quebec birth has currently drawn a blank. Has anyone any suggestion as to how an 11 year old Quebec born boy becomes recruited into a British Regiment in Ireland?
Any suggested lines of enquiry would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi Annie
It was all prefectly normal. Quebec was British, as was Ireland - so he joined the army - there was only one.
There is a good possibility that his father was a soldier serving in what became Canada, and then moved to Kinsale - but there are obviously other possibilities. You could try the regimental BMDs on sites such as Findmypast. They are not complete but they did start before civil registrations. Later in the century the army would allow boys to follow their father until they were 14, so it may have been earlier in 1812. The 6th were in the Peninsular around that time so maybe his family were not selected to go, and it was either be enlisted or be sent to the Workhouse.
There was at least one other James White in the 6th Regiment (from 1808 to 1809 at least) as he received a medal with four clasps for battles fought in that period.
Ken
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Thank you Ken for a prompt and enlightening reply. In an 1851(Leeds Area) census James White gave his place of birth as
'British Seelight' Canada. This may have some connection with some locality or military/naval installation. Contacts with
Quebec and 'google' have so far failed to identify 'British Seelight. I will try the indexes you suggested.
Many Thanks and Regards
AD
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hi,,British seelight is a mistranscription of British subject ;)
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Thank you for that. The said James White married in 1821 in the Leeds area whilst still serving in the regiment. I understand that there was a degree of civil unrest in the North of England about that time and a number of troops from the 6th were stationed in the Leeds and Manchester area to 'assist' if necessary. This might explain his marriage in Leeds.
Thanks Again
AD