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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Oxfordshire => England => Oxfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: patannk on Monday 05 May 08 17:06 BST (UK)
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In 1837, William and Patience Sadler c. a dau, Roseanna at Stokenchurch.
Another daughter, Sarah (b. abt 1835) is listed in 1851 census.
Are there any Sadler marriages listed for William at Watlington?
He says he comes from Turville, in 1851, but there is no marriage rec for him there.
More c. recs are listed at Stokenchurch, for children of William Sadler and a new wife, Ann?
PRs say a Patience died in 1842, but Ann is already with William in 1841?
::)
So I don't really know when or where these 2 marriages took place...
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No record of William and Patience's marriage on the OFHS's Oxfordshire Marriage Index (1538-1837).
The parishes that you mention - Watlington, Turville and Stokenchurch - are all close to the county boundary. Perhaps Patience came from "over the border" and the marriage took place in her home parish (which was very common)?
Pennie
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Thanks for checking.
Sadly, I know nothing more about Patience and very little more about Ann.
In 1841, both Ann and William are listed as not born in county, but in 1851, Ann says she is from Stokenchurch? I couldn't see them in 1861 etc.
Maybe if I follow the children's lives, I will learn something more......
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Not sure who you've got on the 1841 census - are William & Ann living with Rose Anna?
It's just that I'm wondering if the William with Ann is a completely different person to the William with Patience. :-\
In the Stokenchurch PRs, Wm & Patience have Rose Anna in 1837 - Wm is a chairmaker. Then in 1844 there's a baptism for Georgiana d/o William & blank (obviously either illegible or not entered by the clerk) but Wm is still described as a chairmaker. In between these two dates - in 1842 - as you say, there is a burial for Patience, age 30. Incidentally, I don't see a baptism for Sarah around 1835.
Children of Wm & Ann start in 1846, but now Wm is described as a labourer - as he is with all their children up to 1852. I suppose it's not impossible that Wm gave up making chairs and became a labourer, but I wouldn't have thought so - not willingly anyway!
Of course, if you have Wm & Ann on the 1841 census living with Rose Anna & Georgiana, ignore all of the above!! :-[
Jill
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Oops! No Sarah b. abt 1835... she was Mary!
;D
In 1841, we have William (30) a chairmaker and Ann (30).
There are 2 children: Roseanna (4) and Thomas (1).
By 1851, we have William and Ann and 8 children....
William Sadler Head Mar 42 Chair Matter b Turville
Ann Sadler Wife Mar 26 Lace Maker b Stokenchurch
Mary Sadler Dau Unm 16 Lace Maker b Turville
Roseanna Sadler Dau 12 Lace Maker b S
Thomas Sadler Son 10 Chair Matter b S
Eli Sadler Son 7 b S
Georgina Sadler Dau 6 b Lewknor
Elizabeth Sadler Dau 5 b S
John Sadler Son 3 b S
James Sadler Son 3m b S.
It is possible that Ann might have had brought a child with her, when she married William?
Or maybe as Patience's first child, she went home to mum at Turville, for the birth? That seems to happen quite a lot?
Of course, William and Patience could have started their married life at Turville and then moved to Stokenchurch, by 1837...
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1861 Turville, RG8/858 folio136 page 10
William transcribed as age 32 but looks like 52 to me. Looking at Ann's ages on the censuses, is it possible there were 2 of them?
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Crikey - if there were 2 Anns and one Patience - that's 3 marriages we can't find!! :o
I've double checked the Stokenchurch baptisms - Georgiana was definetly baptised there - not Lewknor - in 1844.
from the censuses, the William with Ann is obviously the same one as was with Patience, as he's consistently described as a chairmaker. I wonder why all the baptisms for the children in Stokenchurch after 1844 describe him as a labourer?
The other children from Stokenchurch are:
1846 Elizabeth
1848 John
1850 jane
1851 James Philip
No Thomas or Eli - and it looks as if Jane may have died as a baby as she's not on the 1851 census.
It looks as if this family moved about a bit, doesn't it? :-\
Jill
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On FreeBMD Dec 1846 & Sep 1853 Wycombe district there is a William Sadler with Anns in the list of possible spouse...........
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Well spotted, with the 1861 census!
I agree that William is 52. The 3s and 5s in the censuses often give pause for thought?
I had seen the 2 marriages listed on FreeBMD, but knew that the 1846 record was not my William, as he is also to be found at Stokenchurch in 1851 and I found his marriage to Esther Sanders on 21 Nov 1846, at Radnage.
The 1853 record, I only glanced at, because I thought it was too late, but now I think it must be our missing Ann!
;D
I looked in my own Stokenchurch PR Index and saw......
William Sadler (wid) 37yrs old, m. Ann Parker 25yrs old, on 23 Jul 1853.
William is listed as the son of William and Ann as the dau of Phillip.
Now that could explain why the child c. in 1851 was named John Phillip?
But I am still very puzzled about who was living with William in 1841!
Was that actually Patience, but she called herself Ann... because Patience only died in 1842?
Or was that Ann Parker, but they listed her as Sadler?
And worst of all...... who did all those children belong to and where were they born?
::)
I don't see Ann Parker at Stokenchurch in 1841...
I see Philip and Sarah Parker, with 4 children, but no Ann?
If she was only 25 in 1853, when she married, that would make her about 13 in 1841?
Maybe she was helping to care for the children, but then, where was the as yet, undead Patience.......?
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A long shot, and I need to did out my tree/papers/evidence etc but I have a Philip and Sarah Parker in my tree. From Stokenchurch/Lewknow/Ragnage area.....
Need to confirm but is this a big part of your tree?
Thanks
Selena
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No, but the village of Stokenchurch is of great interest to me.
I am researching the families of all the residents of the village in the 1841 census and the families linked to them.
So any info is very welcome!
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OOh, that would be brilliant. I have neglected my tree for a while so need to refresh my memory... I have had difficulty with Stokenchurch info, I think this is because it changed counties a few times. I was last in Stokenchurch in August looking for headstones - but no joy. I will look at my info and let you know.
Thanks for your reply
Selena
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Hi, My name is Melanie, I am the direct descendant of Georgina Sadler. William Sadler and Ann were possibly both on their third marriages when they met. I a researching my tree and I found in 1853 Ann Parker married William Sadler. It also mentions George Ayres which is possibly her first marriage. After William died she went on to marry Thomas Frewen. Ann was born in Stokenchurch, which at that time the county was under Oxford not Bucks or berks. That I think causes the problems when you are searching for people.
To find out more, just look up The Sleeping Girl of Turville on Wiki, or click on my link here, where I wrote about the sleeping girl of turville who is Ellen Sadler their daughter:
http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Sleeping-Girl-of-Turville-The-True-Story-of-a-Girl-asleep-for-Nine-Years
To find out more on the family please contact me through Nell Rose Hubpages, my online article writing name.
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I have been going nuts trying to figure out the Ann and William Sadler Marriage. I think what has happened is that Ann married William the same year as his first wife, Patience, died. I noticed a child, thomas, born 1841, which means Patience probably died in childbirth. Other census say William married Ann in 1846, but I think this is wrong, not sure.
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I have come to the conclusion, that the 1841 census stating Ann and william sadler are actually brother and sister! Our Ann sadler would have been too young. She had already been married before william, so I believe this one was probably a twin of William, or at least a sister. After Patience died Ann, (sister) moved in to look after the two children. Phew! Got there in the end!I believe Ann Ashby to be williams new wife in 1846. The Ann parker link is wrong as Ann is mentioned in the 51 census, and according to records parker didn't marry till 56'.
So, Ann ashby married William Sadler, while living in Stokenchurch, four years after the death of his first wife Patience. Ann sadler, (sister), on census 41' is only looking after him and the children.
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Familysearch has William Sadler marrying Patience Hollum at Turville on 1 may 1834
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Yes, thanks Lizzie, that's right, I have added it to the Tree. Who are you related too? my direct descendant was Georgena, or Georgina.
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One final thing. The reason why nobody could find Ann Sadler nee Ashby is because she was born in Radnage! Phew! lol!
Here are two links that will give the Radnage Ashby line:
http://www.oswild.org/hobnob/family/hazel/thomas-ashby.html
And
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1841%2f0012567871
I have cross referenced them all and found them to be the right ones.
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Came back to say i got it completely wrong! lol! William Sadler Did marry Ann Parker! Here is the link I found that will explain it all, its fantastic! Scroll down the page, its near the bottom. You can't miss it, it says The Sadlers of Turville.
http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/images/stories/origins/vol22_02.pdf
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Hi all, It is not clear how old these posts are. I have been researching the Sadler family for many years. They go back to John Sadler born in Crowmarsh Gifford in 1725. Ellen Sadler was the daughter of William Sadler and Ann Parker. They lived together as man and wife for some years before they married in 1853. According to the Bucks Free Press's report of the inquest into Ann's death [as Ann Frewin/Fruin] in 1880 Ellen was born in Turville in 1859, although there is no record whatsoever of her birth. She was probably originally called Hannah and born to William and Ann in 1860.
I think the vicar must have been a bit useless, as there are definitely mistakes in the parish register. William Sadler was baptised in 1809 to James Sadler and his wife Grace, nee Clarke, although on his marriage certificate it says his father was called William. James was born in 1786 in Crowmarsh Gifford. It is not clear who is 'Ann' on the 1841 Census. His wife Patience was still alive at the time. It is possible perhaps that the information came from a neighbour who didn't remember his wife's name.
I am interested in hearing more from anyone researching this family.