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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: RobynD on Sunday 04 May 08 05:28 BST (UK)
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I am searching for the marriage of DINAH SPENCER, born 1790 in Sussex, to JOSEPH STOKES, though I don't know his place of birth in England. Joseph's occupation was a "silk weaver" - so maybe born in the Mile End area of London? Though I can find no records of their marriage in that area, nor in the Sussex records.
Their first child William was born September 1821 and baptised St. Leonards Shoreditch, November 1821, as were their 4 subsequent children. They emigrated to Australia on the ship "Whirlwind" landing at Moreton Bay, Queensland, arriving June 1862.
If anyone is able to trace their marriage - place, dates, etc, I would be very appreciative.
With thanks from
Robyn D - in rural NSW, Australia
I've now reread the information , above, that I've posted and realised it's not clear just who migrated to Australia.
To clarify :The "they" who immigrated are - William Stokes, born September 1821, son of Joseph Stokes and Dinah Spencer, migrated in 1862 with his wife Eliza, nee Owen and their first five children (more children were subsequently born in Brisbane).
r
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Hi,
I have found this marriage on Pallot's marriage index,
Jos STOKES
Diana SPENCER
1806 Hackney Middlesex
On the IGI I have found these children, with parents Joseph and Diana
Joseph STOKES
Birth: 09 OCT 1806
Christening: 24 OCT 1806 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London
Mary Ann STOKES
Birth: 14 MAR 1808
Christening: 17 APR 1808 Spitalfields Christ Church
Matilda STOKES
Birth: 19 MAY 1819
Christening: 16 JAN 1820 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London
Harriet STOKES
Birth: 18 OCT 1823
Christening: 01 AUG 1824 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London
There are also these children with parents Joseph and Dinah,
David STOKES
Birth: 14 APR 1812
Christening: 04 MAY 1812 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London
Matilda STOKES
Birth: 22 DEC 1815
Christening: 10 FEB 1817 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch
Dinah STOKES
Birth: 30 OCT 1817
Female Christening: 17 NOV 1817 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London
William STOKES
Birth: 06 SEP 1821
Christening: 05 NOV 1821 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London
Matilda Elizabeth STOKES
Birth: 27 FEB 1828
Christening: 09 MAR 1828 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London
Sarah Ann STOKES
Birth: 27 FEB 1828
Christening: 09 MAR 1828 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London
I think Dinah and Diana be interchanged so I think it's possible that this is one family. Having three children named Matilda could mean the earlier two died, I've often seen children given dead siblings names.
You have William b.1821 as their first child, if you don't mind me asking, where do you find that info and who do you have as the 4 later children? Also do you have the family on any census before they emigrated in 1862?
Regards
Daisy
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Possibly Joseph in 1841. No sign of Dinah/Diana
?? St, Hamlet of Mile End Old Town, Stepney
Joseph STOKES, 55, Silk weaver, yes (born in county)
William STOKES, 20, yes
Joseph STOKES, 12, yes
Robert STOKES, 15, yes
John SIMPSON, 30, yes
Ann STOKES, 15, yes
HO107; Piece 711; Book: 5; Civil Parish: Stepney; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 17; Folio: 37; Page: 7
William, Eliza and daughter Eliza were at Pound End in Braintree Essex, in 1851. Will post details later.
Ian C
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Ian - many thanks for that information. I had received another reply from "Daisy" which lists some more children - all born between 1806 and 1828. But having the references is great. It would appear that DINAH may have died by 1841? - perhaps after birth of Ann, born about 1826 (aged 12 in 1841 Census) ? May be on Free BMD if after 1837.
I have posted another message clarifying some of the information in my first posting with regard to their son William and his wife and children - who came to Australia.
It's starting to come together for me, thanks to you and Daisy.
If I can just now find the marriage of DINAH SPENCER and JOSEPH STOKES, in Hackney 1806, to know who their fathers were, then I can hopefully link to other information I have received from an Australian source.
Any other information you are able to access is greatly appreciated - it's a long way from London parish records from here.
With many thanks
Robyn D
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Hi Robyn,
The registers for Hackney (Tower Hamlets) are held at the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0jy/ One of our Rootschatters (Dawn) is offering to do look-ups on her visits to the LMA perhaps she can look at the entry for you although I doubt whether it would give parents names & I know there was more than one church in Hackney so might prove difficult :( This is the link to her offer http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,299099.0.html
jane
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Thank you Listers for all the information you have provided on my DINAH SPENCER and JOSEPH STOKES.
However..... I think I need a birth/baptism record for DINAH SPENCER so that I can get her parents (well, her father's at least) Christian and Surname. I have the record of a Dinah Spencer born in Sussex in 1790, but I'm not totally convinced she is the correct one.
Is it possible to search the various London area parishes to see if there are any other DINAH/DIANA SPENCERs born at about that time ?
I think her marriage in 1806 in Hackney is correct, (but it doesn't give her parents names, being pre-1837), as her numerous children were born from 1806 onwards. if so, then she would have been born about 1790 + or - a bit.
It seems unusual for someone born in Sussex to not be married in her own parish church; therefore I am wondering if she may have been born someone in the east/south London area, as she married to Joseph Stokes, who was born and lived in Mile End, and to then be married at Hackney - church unknown, though would have been a protestant church, probably C of E.
I know I have these people's names correct as they are from the birth of her son William b. 1821, who is my husband's direct ancestor. Her children were baptised at St. Leonard's Shoreditch, all except Mary Ann Stokes b. 1808, who was baptised at Spitalfields Christ Church. Also, son William after migrating to Brisbane, Queensland gave his children all the same Christian names.
I am reluctant to ask Dawn to search for this Dinah in an unknown parish and unknown church, without more information to give her, so hope someone out there might have more details of DINAH/DIANA SPENCER'S baptism
I think I am asking rather a lot of you all , and am very appreciative of the time and effort you all put in to undertake searches for people like me half way round the world in Australia trying to find our English ancestors.
With many thanks and much appreciation
Sincerely
Robyn D
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Hi Robyn,
On the IGI http://www.familysearch.org/ There is an extracted record of the baptism of Diana Spencer 14/6/1786, St. John, Hackney. Daughter of William. Not very helpful that they've only recorded the father's name :( But at least it looks good to me & you have the name of the church, St. John, which I believe is the main parish church.
Using Hugh Wallis's site http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/
THere are two other baptism's recorded for this Spencer (Spenser) family in St. John's, in the right time-frame,
William 28/2/1781 & Harriott 6/5/1785 both have the father as William. Unfortunately the marriages for St. John's on the IGI only go up to 1754 which I think is too early to find the marriage of William to Dinah's mother.
There is a death for a Dinah Stokes on FreeBMD but it's in Walsall :-\ which is far away from Hackney.
jane
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Jane - many thanks again for your searches. Sorry for the delay in replying - had Internet problems for the last 3 days, but back on line again now.
I wish I could be certain that the DINAH on her son William's birth certificate is the same as the DIANA SPENCER you've found for me in St. John's, Hackney. Transcription error, probably. I think DINAH must have died pre-1841, as she's not on the census for that year though husband Joseph is. I'll have a good look at Hugh Wallis' site again.
Thanks for the leads/links. Much appreciated.
RobynD in Australia
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Robyn, don't discount this Diana 1786, as Daisy said & from my own experience, Diana/Diane & Dinah are interchangeable.
As Joseph was a silk weaver you might be interested in this article about Spitlefields the centre of the London industry http://www.icons.org.uk/theicons/collection/brick-lane/biography/huguenot-weavers
jane
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Thank you all so very much for all your searching and information.
And to Pam M for sending me a copy of the marriage record (hard to call it a "certificate" ) - they didn't add too much information back then, and yes you are correct in saying it's a bit disappointing, but it is the record, which is what counts. We somehow do expect a nice printed certificate similar to today's certificate, even though this was back in 1806. Thanks also for the warning - it did open without problem, but when I went to re-open it today to show my husband, it had expired. Thankfully I had both printed and saved it.
I can't thank all of you enough for your time and efforts in helping me put this line of my husband's together back in London before they came to Australia. The line went forth and mutiplied well here in Australia , and there are Stokes descendants all over Brisbane, and further afield nowadays. They helped populate this country well and truly !!
Diana/Dinah is still being used as a Christian name as is William down the Stokes and its various branches here.
Many many thanks again - you are much valued by those of us too far away for easy access to records.
Best wishes
RobynD
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Hi Robyn & others,
I would like to join this discussion as I also am tracing the family & descendants of Joseph Stokes & Dinah Spencer through their granddaughter Matilda Stokes who married William Guy in Brisbane, Queensland. I am only just starting to research this line and have heaps to catch up on.
Lyn
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Lyn
With the help of another Stokes descendant who formerly lived in Brisbane and is descended from a son named William, I have traced the children of Joseph Stokes and Dinah Spencer here in Australia, born in Brisbane. Your Matilda was one of three children named Matilda, the earlier two dying in infancy. There were 13 known children born, 3 of whom died in infancy.
Without knowing how much you know of this line, it's difficult to know where to start. My husband is descended of one of their children, Mary Ann Stokes and I do have the names and DOBs of the other children of Joseph and Dinah. I have also traced Joseph back another 4 generations to a Joseph Stokes, b. 1672 (all named Joseph), but Dinah Spencer back only 1 generation to her parents William Spencer and Sarah Lloyd.
I also have the "certificate" of marriage sent to me by another kind poster, Pam. Plus various photos of the family in Brisbane.
I also have 9 children listed for William Guy and Matilda Stokes, born between 1890 and 1904 in Brisbane, but no further searches on them for their spouses or children.
These can be searched - google "Queensland Historical BMD Indexes" for births prior to 1913, due to the 100 year embargo on births.
If you let me know how much info you have, I can hopefully fill in more details.
RobynD
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Thanks Robyn.
I found a message that had an email address for you so I have sent a message to that address so I will see how that goes.
I don't have much entered at all on the Stokes family.
Talk to you again soon.
Thanks once again
Lyn