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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: GrandmaSheila on Sunday 04 May 08 00:16 BST (UK)
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William Randolph Davidson b1861 married Mary Black b29.08.1870 in Cowdenbeath on 02.01.1893 in Dunfermline. Looking for the birthplace of William Randolph and in turn information on his parents William and Barbara and their parents.
They were my husbands grandparents and had the following children:
Elizabeth c1894 Dunfermline the remainder were born in Newburgh:
Magdalen c1895, Mary c1897, Wilhemina c1899, John William c1900, Charlotte c1901, Thomas c1902 and Alexander Wishart 1903.
I found Mary and her family in the 1901 Census but William is not with her so I have been unable to find out where he was born. I have their marriage certificate and both William and his father William were Miners. At the time of William and Marys marriage both his parents were deceased (his mothers ms is listed as Davison).
At the time of their marriage William was living in Bruce Street, Dunfermline - Marys family had a Lodging House there, her mother was Lodging House Keeper and her father deceased. ::)
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Hi Again.
Found this in 1861 and as its only one i can find thought id post it :) :)
1861 in Aberlour
Parish Aberlour/ ED 1/ Line12/ Year 1861
Barbara Davidson wife age 37 b Aberdour occ farm servants wife
William Davidson servant ??? Age 1 b Aberdour
Address 5 Lowstreet
This census was done on 7/8 April, sorry no idea where Aberdour is ::)
Dont know as servant is correct for William and wonder where the father was as it doesnt
mention him.
Sue
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Thank you Sue,
Aberdour - Aberdeenshire
I have been looking for William Randolph for so long, that is why in desperation I have come on to this site I have posted his name just about everywhere.
I also found one born 1861 in Ayr - mother Barbara, father William but then he married someone else when I traced him.
Just have to keep looking and hope that there are some Davidsons out there who are doing their family trees.
Sheila ::) ::) ::)
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Hi Shiela
Do you have the marriage certifiacates for any of William Randolph's children? They should give you a guide as to when he died. Then you would be able to seach Scotlands People for a death certificate which might give you details about his parents and place of birth.
Kirsty
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Hi KirstyG,
I have the marriage certificate for his son Alexander Wishart he married Mary Shaw in 1929 and at that time his father is a Builder's Labourer. Alexander and Mary married in Glasgow - on the certificate he is named as William although on the IGI birth (Scotland) and his own marriage certificate he is named as William Randolph.
Thank You
GrandmaSheila
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Hi Sheila
The IGI entry you refer to is a submitted entry. Probably taken from the name including Randolph /age on his marriage cert.
Did William show as a bachelor on his 1893 MC and have you been able to identify the witnesses to his marriage to Mary?
Regards.
Monica :)
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Hi Monica,
William Randolph was a Bachelor on his MC the Witnesses were:
Johan Black (Marys younger sister) and it looks like James Doolan or Deelan
Sheila
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So no more clues there!
William was dead by early 1921 at the time of the marriage of his daughter Wilhemina. He is down as a printer for occupation.
Monica
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On Alexanders marriage certificate William is listed as a Builders Labourer - he wasn't married until 1929 so I presumed William Randolph was still alive as it does not say deceased.
How did you get the information from Wilheminas marriage certificate - sorry I am rather new to this!!
Regards
Sheila
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I had a look at her marriage cert on Scotlands People. Father shows as deceased, mother Mary Black doesn't. Alexander was a witness at the marriage in Kirkcaldy
William didn't die in Fife between 1903 and 1921. Wonder where the family was during those years?
It is also notable that none of his daughters, and he had many, were called Barbara after his mother. His father's name featured strongly with the naming of Wilhemina and John William but no ref. to a Barbara (I suppose there could have been an early death)
Monica
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;) There's Barbara, born in 1907 in Newburgh!
Monica
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Born in 1907 - we were under the impression that Alexander b1903 was the youngest. He later had a daughter Barbara so the family link to the name goes on.
The family at the 1901 Census are living at Sweery Lodging House, Newburgh and Mary is Lodging House Keepers Wife. All the children excepting the eldest were born in Newburgh.
Thank you for all your help.
Sheila
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Sheila
The problem you have now is linking the info you have from his marriage to either a birth or a death.
The most obvious birth is the one you have seen with the mother Barbara Hardie who died in the 1870s and as you say, from the censuses it looks like father William remarried. From William's 1893 MC, father had died by this time. It may be that at the time of his marriage to Mary, William did not remember his mother's maiden name. From IGI, there are no illegitimate births of a William showing for a mother Barbara Davidson, so the likelihood is that William D. and Barbara Hardie were his parents. You might want to check whether William Snr (husband of Barbara Hardie) had died by 1893 to help you at least verify some of the info on the MC.
You're not helped in looking for William born c.1861 in the censuses by the fact that he seemed to have a wide range of jobs. Everything I have seen seems to have a different occupation.
It would be good to find his DC (although I'm not sure it would necessarily have any new info but you never know). However there are 26 entries showing for a William b. 1860 +/- 3yrs in Scotland (the Fife ones are not him) between 1907-1921 - too many for you to view on line unfortunately.
Monica
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Monica
Thank you for that information - this has always been the problem when searching for William Randolph the fact that neither he nor his father seem to be about at the time of the census.
We now have a Barbara we never knew about to add to the mix.
This is becoming rather addictive.
Thank you so much
Sheila
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Still searching for William (Randolph) Davidson - I now find that Barbara Davidson b1907 was a twin she was born on 13.09.1907 at Sweerie House, Newburgh, Fife and her sister born 5 minutes later was named Robina. On the birth certificate their father is just named as William and is a Linoleum Worker. Their birth was registered on the 26th October at Newburgh.
Grandma Sheila
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It's OK Sheila ... I'm doing this in support of your quest. Between us we've now got this:
WILLIAM RANDOLPH DAVIDSON was born Abt. 1861 in Ayr, Ayrshire. He married MARY BLACK 02 Jan 1893 in Dunfermline, Fife, daughter of JOHN BLACK and ELIZABETH WISHART. She was born Abt. 1870 in Beath, Fife,Scotland.
Notes for MARY BLACK:
1881 Census Residing at 33 Bruce Street, Dunfermline, Fife - scholar
Children of WILLIAM DAVIDSON and MARY BLACK are:
i. MAGDALENA3 DAVIDSON, b. 26 Jul 1894, Sweerie House, Newburgh, Fife.
ii. MARY DAVIDSON, b. 10 Nov 1896, Sweerie House, Newburgh, Fife.
iii. WILHELMINA DAVIDSON, b. 28 Aug 1898, Sweerie House, Newburgh, Fife.
iv. JOHN WILLIAM DAVIDSON, b. 30 Dec 1899, Sweerie House, Newburgh, Fife.
v. CHARLOTTE DAVIDSON, b. 1901.
vi. THOMAS DAVIDSON, b. 1902.
vii. ALEXANDER WISHART DAVIDSON, b. 15 Jul 1903, Sweerie House, Newburgh, Fife;
d. Abt. 1952, Leith, Edinburgh, Midlothian.
viii. BARBARA DAVIDSON, b. 30 Sep 1907, Sweerie House, Newburgh, Fife.
ix. ROBINA DAVIDSON, b. 30 Sep 1907, Sweerie House, Newburgh, Fife.
Hopefully someone can help from here :-\
Aye mair questions than answers in a world where the past was a different place - that cannae be revisited!!
Chiad Fhear
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Sheila
There is nothing showing is there for his birth with the parents he is showing on his MC. I've also searched IGI with just his name and mother as Barbara Davidson (in case he was illegitimate) but also nothing showing :-\
Monica
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Thank you for that Chiad Fhear,
However I now find that Thomas and Charlotte were born in 1909 and 1912 respectively in Kirkcaldy, Fife and they had the name of Carney.
I am not sure if William (Randolph) Davidson was born in Ayr as we have very little information on him - however the only person I could find with a mother named Barbara and a father William was the one born in Ayr in 1860 so I have put that provisionally in my tree.
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Mary left her husband William Davidson in about 1908 and moved to Kirkcaldy - the family are living at 329 High Street in 1909 and are still there in 1932. The father of her last two children Thomas and Charlotte was Patrick Carney.
So it seems we will never know where William (Randolph) Davidson originally came from as presumably he will not be with Mary and the family in the 1911 Census.
Does anyone have any information on this family please., I have been unable to find a death certificate on Scotlands People for either William or Mary.
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Hi Sheila
Dinnae gae up on him yet! We'll get him!
::)
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hi
i've just been reading these replys,
can i be cheeky here and just let you know aberdour is in fife just a few miles along the coast from kirkcaldy on the way to edinburgh. its a small pretty village.
jacci
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hi :)
back again you might be interested in this link its for the memorial book of fife miners. the page i brought up is c/d it lists 2 cairneys and 1 william davidson.
jacci :)
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mmartin/fifepits/
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Hi jacci
Have used the Fife Pits site before. Can you tell me which region of Fife and the nameof the pit you found the information in please so I can have a look and see if I can follow it up for GrandmaSheila
Cheers
Chiad Fhear
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hi chiad :)
heres what i have, i don't know if they will be of any help but heres hoping.
jacci :)
daniel cairney age 31 13/2/1908 blairadam bridge pits kelty cause of death fall of roof
james cairney age 39 21/4/1968 bogside pit kinglassie cause of death runaway truck
william davidson age 33 6/4/1943 comrie colliery saline (just outside of dunfermline) cause of death roof fall
theres also
alexander davidson 1909
birrel davidson 1918
blyth davidson age 54 1931
david davidson age 18 1904
john davidson age 51 1934
thomas davidson age 71 1908
thomas davidson age 35 1923
thomas davidson age 62 1926
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Thanks jacci
There were quite literally hundred of pits scattered throughout Fife and the info you've given will surely be a help. I'm due a visit to New Register House in Edinburgh this week so can check up on the names and dates to see if there's a link.
You see GrandmaSheila ... we shouldnae gae up on Wullie!
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Thank you to you all for taking such an interest in Wullie - maybe someday we will find him!
Grandma Sheila
And thank you for pointing out where Aberdour is - I live in Lancashire so it is not always easy - far from being cheeky you are being a help.
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hi grandmasheila :)
thanks for that aberdour is just down the road from where i am in kirkcaldy.
as i said it is a pretty village complete with a castle.
if you get past 1855 i have the pre 1855 death index handy sometimes for those elusive relatives in fife.
jacci :)
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Peter (Patrick) Carney died at 329 High Street, Kirkcaldy in 1922 and Mary Davidson (BLACK) died at 28 Cross Street, Kirkcaldy in 1945.
Where did William Davidson b1861 die? but more importantly where was he born? ::) ::)
Still trying to find 'Our Wullie'
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Hi Grandma Sheila
Just thought I'd update the search here with the bonus bit of information that I emailed to you yesterday :)
WILLIAM DAVIDSON (note no Randolph at this stage)
b. 14 November 1860 43 Carrick Street, Ayr, Ayrshire
Parents:
William Davidson (Coachman)
Barbara Davidson maiden name Hardy
Then there was his marriage in 1893 to Mary Black that we have already. There's a wee problem here tho' because his mother, although shown as 'Barbara Davidson' on hte Register has her maiden name shown as 'Davison'.
Seems we could be getting there although we're still not out of the woods yet!
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Hi Chad,
Thank you for that - maybe we should go down that avenue.
The William born in Ayr lost his mother and his father remarried so maybe he didn't know her maiden name!!
Since both his parents were dead by the time he married he had no one to ask - just like us!!!
GrandmaSheila
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You're welcome GrandmaSheila :)
Got to keep this thread up near the top of the page if nothing else ;)
Who knows ... maybe the wife of the second marriage WAS Barbara as well and her maiden name was 'Davison'? :P
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Hi Chiad,
Found my research on this family:
1871 Barbara 33 - 221 High Street, Ayr
Agnes 13
Mary 12
William 10
Jeanie (Jane) 7
No husband!!
1881 - Ayr
Agnes 23
Mary 22 - Assistant Dairy
William 20 - Assistant Dairyman
Isabella 2
Thomas 7months
William 48 - Dairyman
Agnes 32 - b New Cumnock (he married Agnes McLeod)
1891 - 26 Kyle Street, Ayr
Mary 32
Isabella 12
Thomas 10
Annie 5
Agnes 42
No husband!! No William (if it is our Wullie)
1901
41 Kyle Street, Ayr
Agnes 51
Mary 32
Isabella 22
Thomas 20
Annie 15
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Hi again GrandmaSheila
A wet afternoon here in 'The Kingdom' with nothing worth watching on the 'tellie' so I'm doing a wee bit of catch-up on the tree. Your info is helping.
It appears as if Mary - from Willam's first marriage to Barbara Hardy - maybe never married as she appears in each of the Census returns 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 ... which include the ones with the new wife!
Since Barbara is shown as 'Deceased' on son William's (William now Randolph Davidson) marriage to Mary Black, this information would mean Barbara died pre-1881 Census and given that her husband William was shown as 'Deceased' on that record as well, it's just possible he died pre-1891 Census.
Isabella, Thomas and Annie will have been Agnes's children to William.
If you have the Census record pages to support that bit of research ... would you be good enough to email them to me please?
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Hi Chiad,
Will do. Thank you so much for your help. Raining here too.
GrandmaSheila
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Still looking for more information on this family - Mary Black had 10 children - surely there must be someone in Fife who is related to this family!!
Grandma
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:) A Happy New Year to all in Fife - perhaps this year I will solve the mystery of 'Our Wullie'
Grandma
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:D Thanks Grandma Sheila
The same tae you an' yours! Dinnae you be goin' ha'ein ower mony sherbits noo wi' that man o' yours! Ye ken whit thae Fifers kin be like!
maith, h-uile latha, na chi 'snach fhaic!
Loosely translated is: "Good health, every day, whether I see you or not!"
(An appropriate toast for e-mail friends)
Chiad Fhear
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Still looking for him!!
Grandma
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Aye GrandmaSheila
Ah doot oor Wullie hid un'er a bit mair 'an a bushel :D
Another visit to NRH Edinburgh last week threw up nothing else!
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Hello Chiad Fhear,
Thank you for taking such an interest in our search you are lucky to be so close to NRH Edinburgh, maybe we should take a trip up.
I now have all the birth certificates for his children and marriage certificates which I have been able to trace.
I have the death certificate of Mary Black but still no luck in finding a death certificate for William (Randolph) Davidson. Think I must have shares in Scotlands People by now.
Well will just keep looking.
Grandma
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... but still no luck in finding a death certificate for William (Randolph) Davidson ...
... will just keep looking.
Hi Grandma Sheila
Just thought I'd post and see what, if any, progress you've made with trying to find the elusive Wullie :P
Will do no harm either to keep the kettle on at the simmer for new Roots Chatters to see :)
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Hi Chiad,
Lovely to hear from you again - we keep looking for 'Our Wullie' but no luck no doubt someday we will find him.
Been busy preparing for our youngests wedding - the 'boys' were up in Edinburgh at the weekend collecting their new kilts etc.
Grandma
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Still looking for 'Our Wullie' added a new daughter in law to the clan but still unable to find my husbands grandfather!!
???
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A Happy New Year to everyone in Fife - maybe this year the missing pieces will be found and we will find 'Our Wullie' at last!!!!
:-\
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Still looking ??? ::) ??? ::) ??? ::)
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Surely someone knows where William went (and more importantly where he came from) :o :o :o
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Surely someone knows where William went (and more importantly where he came from) :o :o :o
Hi GrandmaSheila ... great to see you've resurrected this. Surely, after being 'Read 4269 times' you would think so!
Infuriating >:( ... isn't it?
Chiad Fhear
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....Only about 11 months, x days, x hours before the 1911 census is released ;D Maybe that will throw something up perhaps on your Wullie!
Monica
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Thank you for your support Chiad and Monica - we live in hope!!! :D
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??
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Probably not much help but can add to the info you're already collecting - that's if you haven't already discovered it - but it would seem the daughter Robina, was named after Mary Black's grandmother, Robina Turnball.
I've spent some time this afternoon looking around for your 'Wullie' - he certainly is an enigma. It seems likely he is the one born in Ayrshire, 1860 - have you actually accepted this or still holding out that he could be from elsewhere?
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We just keep looking and looking. The one born in Ayr would appear to be the best 'fit' but they were always agricultural labourers and he says both he and his father are miners on his marriage certificate.
Yes Robina would appear to have been named after her great grandmother Robina Turnbull - I have traced that family back through the generations without much trouble but despite all my searching am unable to come up with anything about 'Our Wullie' as he is affectionately known.
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Still looking :o ::)
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Hi GrandmaSheila
I noticed that Jimmijam posted this on another thread ...
"Yes I've got Davidsons! ... I've three branches, hailing from Abernethy, Perth, and Peterhead."
Abernethy and Newburgh are just a stone's throw apart ...
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=318500&y=716500&z=120&sv=abernethy&st=3&tl=Map+of+Abernethy,+Perth+and+Kinross+[City/Town/Village]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf
Could be worth a try 8)
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Hi Chiad,
I did send a message to Jimijam.
As you say Abernethy is just down the road from Newburgh - you never know!!
Hope you are keeping well.
GrandmaSheila
:D
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Hi Grandma Sheila,
I never got your message!
Please send it again!
Best wishes, Jimmijam
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Hi GrandmaSheila,
I just found this on GenesReunited Message Board:
WAR MEMORIAL WETHERBY RD HARROGATE
Hi,
Can anyone help me. My grandfather William Randolf Davidson died in 1920 in a hospital for wounded soldiers in Harrogate. I have been told that in 1920 Grand Duchess George erected a war memorial to the soldiers who died in her hospitals. The memorial is on the corner of Wetherby road next to the stray.
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY INSCRIPTIONS ON THE MEMORIAL AND IF THERE ARE ANY LOCAL BOOKS AVAILABLE TO BUY REGARDING THE HOSPITALS FOR THE SOLDIERS.
tHANKYOU
Don't know if this will help... Do let us know...
Best wishes, Jimmijam
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Jimmijam
IT HAD TO HAPPEN ... SOONER OR LATER!
This is a fantastic (possible) result ... I just hope it's 'Oor Wullie'
GrandmaSheila has to be getting excited now!
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Wow this is indeed a possibility - thank you Jimijam and Chaid who has taken so much interest all along.
I only just got your message Chiad!!!!!!!!!!
Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee indeed - there can't be that many William Randolph Davidsons - can there????
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What are 'families' for GrandmaSheila?
IT HAD TO HAPPEN ... SOONER OR LATER!
I've copied this 'result' to the Yorkshire West Riding page in the hope that some one will help!
Could this be an early Christmas present for us? :-\
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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What a lovely chap you are Chiad and always trying to help.
I have put a message on Genes - we live in hope.
Almost Christmas could be an early present. Hope you are managing to move about up there now the snow is melting, we have been lucky here it has almost gone now.
Grandma
xx
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Hi Grandmasheila,
I have an Annie Davidson married to David Brown in Leith. I have my tree on Genes and also Ancestry if you want to contact me to view to see if we have a match. Send me a message on Genes
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Hope you are managing to move about up there now the snow is melting, we have been lucky here it has almost gone now.
Pic of yours truly on East Lomond (a modest 1,424 feet) in the middle of Fife last Saturday
Could be the Alps or Himalayas ;)
Mild today and the snow has almost all gone ... ready for a return next week!
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Lovely photo Chiad.
Just think what you saved by having the snow come to you.
;)
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Hi GrandmaSheila and jimmijam
This is the link to the Great War Forum site for some useful answers ... http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=157056
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Barbara Davidson born September 1907 died 12th September 1908 aged 11 months from Measles and her twin Robina died on the 14th September 1908 also from Measles.
They died at Clinton Street, Newburgh, Fife
The family ran Sweerie Lodging House in Newburgh which looking at the map would appear to have been in Clinton Street (there is a Sweerie Area listed).
Does anyone know if the houses are still there - on Google Maps there are some large properties painted white and I think it says Clinton Street on the wall.
Can anyone help?
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Not long now until the 1911 Census is available - perhaps at last we will find 'Our Wullie'.
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We still didn't find him - went on to the 1911 the day it was out. Does anyone know anything about 'our wullie'?? :'(
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:o ::) :o ::)
Still looking!!!
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Hi Sheila and Chiad,
I had a fresh look over your thread again, and I'm not sure if I've got anything substantial, more like a lot of suppositions, but I thought I'd post what I've got - its in several parts, because its a bit long. Pop the kettle on, make a cuppa and come back...
I checked on Ancestry for all William's born to a mother Barbara, concentrating on the Fife/Ayrshire/Aberdour angle. The William born to Barbara in Aberdour c1861 of the 1861 census, was married to Aggie in 1901, so I ruled that one out.
I also came across a William Davidson, born 1861, living in Beath, (birth place of Mary Black) living on his own means in the 1901 census:
1901 Scotland Census about Wm Davidson
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Where born: Burntisland, Fifeshire
Registration Number: 410
Registration district: Beath
Civil parish: Beath
County: Fife
Address: 90 Union St
Occupation: Living On Own Means
However, cross referencing the Burntisland birth place, I found a William Davidson born to James Davidson and Mary Robertson, 1860. Its looking increasingly likely, using IGI and Ancestry, that William, born Ayr is yours.
End of Part One...
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Part Two
Then, I wondered whether "Randolf", William Davidson's middle name, was a family name and combined it with Hardy, and found this on IGI:
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
This is interesting as it has the connections:
Forename: Randolph; Surname:Hardie; plus the Fife Location
Could there be a Hardy family connection between William Randolph Davidson, presumed son of Barbara Davidson, nee Hardy living in Fife and Randolf Hardy of Fife?
Here's what I found out:
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
So checking back, according to 1861 census, Thomas Hardy (father to Randolph) was born in 1828 in Leslie, Fife. Checking on the IGI gives his parents:
Thomas Hardie married Helen McPherson 2nd April 1826 in Leslie, Fife. Thomas Hardie born to Thomas Hardie and Helen McPherson 12th August 1826 in Leslie, Fife.
I'm now working on the presumption of a family connection between Thomas Hardy and Barbara Hardy or Hardie, possibly William Randolph Davidson's mother.
Continued in part three
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Part three...
So I'm checking back on Barbara Hardie, supposed mother of William Randolph Davidson, based on 1861 info regarding her birth place, and I found this on IGI:
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
Could Thomas Hardy of Leslie, Fife, be connected to Barbara and therefore William Hardie of New Cumnock? There's a submitted IGI marriage for William Hardie to Agnes Campbell for Ochiltree, Ayrshire, 1827, which says he comes from England (?). However, as its a submitted entry, we'd need to see original data, so I'll move on from this.
So I'm now looking to trace back birth records for William Hardy and Thomas Hardy of Leslie, Fife, and after a lot of sifting and cross checking:
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
These births could provide a tie between the Hardies (wasn't there a tv programme The Hardy Boys?), but...I can't find William on any census, which might provide other facts to check.
So could William Hardie of Leslie, Fife be the William Hardie that married Campbell of New Cumnock, and had a daughter Barbara? It might explain the Fife/Ayrshire connection of William Randolph Davidson...
but we of course, we might be manipulating the data to suit our own ends...
So that's it for now, let me know what you both think.
I'm not sure if we've got anywhere, and there's a lot of suppositions but maybe others can help.
Best wishes, Jimmijam
PS I thought I'd give this another look see, as yesterday I found the death records of my gt, and gt gt grandfather's (who had really common names), thanks to the wonders of the Ancestry Probabe Records. So don't give up, it only took me two decades...
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Hi Sheila and Chiad,
Well here's another angle, I double checked for Barbara Hardie's marriage record, and if you remember, she was recorded on William's Marriage Record as Barbra "Davison". Well there may well be a reason for this:
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
So this would tie William further in to these parents, but doesn't explain the "Davidson". What was Chiad spoke of, more questions than answers...
I had a check then for William Randolf Davis, no luck. Here's SP's for William Davis:
Your SR Births Search Returns
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RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
Do you have Barbara and William's original marriage certificate?
I can't find William Davidson's marriage to Barbara on IGI.
Were they married?
Could William Davis have died and she took up with William Davidson?
Was the Davis a mistranscription?
Is this why we can't find him???
mmm
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Hi Sheila and Chiad,
I've had a look backwards and forwards on Ancestry through the latter part of the century for William and Barbara.
I couldn't find anything on the Davis angle, so I'm putting that aside for the time being.
It would seem that Barbara Davidson, nee Hardy was present in Ayr in 1861 and 1871. No records exist for her either after this period, either as Davidson, or with another surname (say that William Davidson, her husband, not present in the census, had died and she had remarried).
I then went backwards and forwards on William Davidson, spouse to Barbara, and children born to this couple. I wondered if they had all emigrated. William and Barbara Davidson's last child Jeanie, was born in Ayr and I found her as a servant in the 1891 census. So no complete family emigration.
I'm supposing that Barbara died and had a closer look at William Davidson. Based on 1861 census, William Davidson, was born in Portpartrick, 1833. As Barbara has disappeared from the census, I checked for William Davidson with his details.
I found a William Davidson working as a dairyman, with these birth details with Agnes Davidson in 1881.
It would seem he had remarried, as his daughter Mary (to Barbara) was still living with him.
So I did some checking and I found a marriage record on IGI:
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
If this is the same William Davidson, this would give us a death date for Barbara as between 1871 and 1874.
In the 1881 census with William and Agnes Davidson, is William Davidson, born 1861, Ayr.
I went forward and William Davidson doesn't appear on any other census after 1881. However Agnes (still with Mary, daughter of Barbara) is now head indicating that William has died before the 1891 census.
Using the dates of the birth of William and Agnes's last child, and 1891 census, I narrowed his death between (1885 - 1891).
I checked on SP and found William's Death Certificate which gives us the following information:
William Davidson, Dairyman, 35 Kyle Street, Ayr, 54 years, died of Brights Disease and dropsy on 16th April 1888. His spouse is Agnes McLeod and his parents are William Davidson, deceased, Cattle Dealer and Mary Gray (?spelling), deceased. It gives his daughter Mary as Witness (wouldn't it have been great if it had been William Randolph Davidson?!)
Send me a pm with your email address and I'll send it on.
Now the names of Barbara Davison (similar to Davis as on her marriage certificate) and William Davidson
(did it give an occupation of William Randolph Davidson's marriage certificate? - yes miner mmm) and the fact both are deceased, link to William Randolph Davidson's marriage in 1893.
But, if this Barbara and William Davidson are the parents to William Randolph Davidson, then William senior's occupation on his marriage certificate would have recorded him as "dairyman" as opposed to "miner", don't you think?
So we're left with several options:
this is the wrong family for William Randolph Davidson;
there are two Davidson families living in and around Ayr, dairymen and miners and I've got the Death Cert for the wrong man.
Or, if going by occupations, I've traced the wrong man...
or William could have been delivering coal and milk...
No easy answers here!!!
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Hi Sheila and Chiad,
I figured that to link it all together, we needed more on Barbra.
So I went looking for a marriage certificate for Barb* Hard* (to cover all spellings!) and found her on the 23rd March 1857, in Ochiltree and it gives the following information:
William Davis, 26 years of Ayr, occupation (looks like) "?ostler" (Possibly Hostler?), his father as William Davis, Cattle Dealer and mother Mary Grey (deceased); Barbra Hardie, 20 years, of Hunterston, Ochiltree, Occupation Domestic Servant, Father William Hardie coal-miner (deceased), Mother Agnes Campbell.
Again, pm me and I'll send on the certificate.
Well, now we know that Barbara Hardie was married to William Davis, the same William Davidson who later married Agnes McLeod, given the names and occupations of William's father, the cattle dealer.
So we've got the right parents and family in the census, but does it bring us any closer to linking William Randolph Davidson to this family?
The Davis/Davison/Davidson angle is interesting, and links to the Barbra "Davison", on William Randolph Davidson's marriage certificate., as well as both his parents being deceased.
The Randolf Hardie connection (from several posts ago) is interesting, but not proof. We'd need to purchase a lot of certificates and trace them through the census, to be sure.
There were a lot of coal pits etc in Ayrshire over the centuries and quite a few around Ochiltree, (William Randolph Davidson's occupation on his marriage certificate). And people could have had different occupations at the same time.
I'm moving back in favour to this being the right family, but I'm not too sure...
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Hi Sheila and Chiad,
Well, in for a penny, in for a pound...
I've got William Davidson's Birth Certificate, for 14th November 1860, of 43 Carrick Street, son of William Davidson, Coachman and Barbra Hardy.
I was really hoping for the name William Randolf Davidson... no such luck!
So once again, where was William in 1891, and 1901?
I thought I'd check for William Randolph Davidson in the 1891 census, using William Davidson, born Ayr 1860 as search parameters. I also checked for William (Unknown) born Ayr 1860. Still nothing.
All that I came up with was these records, not even close.
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So right name, rough birth year, born Ayrshire, in Stranraer, father's birth place, grandfather's occupation...
But with his parents in 1901, so not ours
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Okay its a huge stretch!
This "Ferguson" surname is close to the Jane Fergus that married Thomas Hardie, parents to Randolph Hardy.
This William's birth location is Cumnock...(William Davidson's mother Barbara Hardy's birth place)
Lanark is closer to Dunfermline than Ayr
Is Janet a sister to William? William did have a sister Jeanie, born 1864. Checked SP marriages - for Andrew Walt and Davidson, nothing, Also William Randolph Davidson's son Alexander Wishart Davidson's marriage certificate gave his father's occupation as builder's labourer, same as above.
So thats it for the time being, here's some final thoughts and questions...
There are no Davidson (female) Carney (Male) marriages on SP, nor did she remarry using her maiden name. There are 2 Davidson (female) Cairney (Male) marriages on SP, but they took place after 1940. So did Mary Davidson nee Black just take Mr. Carney's surname for her children?
Did Mary Davidson nee Black leave her husband, or did William Randolph Davidson die?
Also, going back over the original postings, Sheila, the William Davidson of Ayr, you mention that you traced him but he'd married someone else. Then later, he's back in the frame. Can you post further details on this (eg. marriage/death for wife/or wrong person)?
Could get Barbra Davidson nee Hardy's Death Cert, but it wouldn't necessarily give us further info, unless the witness was William Randolph Davidson's signature
So the problem still remains, like Monica said, linking the marriage certificate to a birth certificate and finding the elusive death certificate.
Best wishes, Jimmijam
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Hi
Thank you so much for taking an interest once again in 'Our Wullie' a most elusive man.
I have sent you a pm.
Sheila
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Still looking :D
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Happy New Year to one and all.
Perhaps in 2012 we will find the missing pieces of the jigsaw.
::)
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Still looking!!
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A Happy New Year to one and all.
Still looking for the missing piece!
Sheila
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Sheila, Happy New Year to your :-*
Like you, hoping for a break on your behalf!
Monica
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Hi Monica
Maybe this will be my lucky year, can hardly believe that it is 2013 already!!
:D
Sheila