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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: heathpete on Saturday 03 May 08 02:48 BST (UK)
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I've just found out that our family nick name is "Dhu".Does anyone know what that means? Our surname is Jack.My Father was born in Avoch on the Black Isle.
Thank you. Heather Jack
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Good Luck trying to sort that out, heathpete. I, too have Jack ancestors from Avoch and there were so many that they were given t-names/by-names or as you say 'nicknames' to distinguish the different families. I'm not familiar with the meaning of 'Dhu' but it would relate to something specific for that family ... perhaps Gaelic?
A good reference is the web site 'whatinaname' - the URL escapes me at the moment but I have contacted them and found them extremely helpful.
HTH
Joy
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I've just 'googled' Dhu - it means one who is dark, swarthy. It can also be used for 'black' as in 'Carrack dhu' where Carrack means rock and dhu black ... black rock.
HTH
Joy
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Joy,
Thank you for this information. It would be interesting to know what it refers to . Dad was dark haired and tall, maybe it refers to that.Thanks again. Do you know what your families nickname is?
Heather
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In my Jack family I have variously; Muckle, Dusty and Dusty Ludovic. The T-names/by-names were not always carried on father to son, so you had the father and his family known as Donald Jack or Muckle Jack and the son, for example, Lewis Jack or Dusty Jack.
Avoch had a large population of Jack, Patience and McLeman families to name just a few and they all intermarried, marrying cousins etc. By the time you're back researching in the early 1800's it is starting to be a challenge to keep them all straight. You may be lucky and have ancestors that kept records - family bibles etc, mine didn't :(
Regards
Joy :)
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It's all very confusing. We don't have much to go on. I'm still trying to find out whether I'm chasing the right people as my Great Grandparents. There are so many people with the same names. I've tried contacting distant relatives that still live in Scotland but aren't having much luck with that so far. I suppose it just all takes some time.Thanks again.Heather { Sydney, Australia }
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Hi Heather
I'm in Wagga Wagga. If you would like to post what you have so far I could see if I could help :) after all, two heads are better than one - so they say ;D
Regards
Joy :)
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What are the names of your great grandparents - I am a descendant of the McLemans of Avoch and also have Jacks and Patience in my Family Tree. There might be something that I can help you with. Torrygirl
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My Great Grandparents were David Jack and Annie Cowie. Annie died around 1952. David, I think, died prior to 1933. I don't know how many children they had but I do know their eldest was David. There was also a Bill, Donald and Margaret.Margaret was my Father's { Vincent Jack born 1933} mother.
My father was raised by Annie Cowie and they lived on Factory Lane.
That is about as much as I know so far.Thank you Torrygirl.
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I have a MI booklet from the Old Churchyard, Avoch.
There is an inscription noted as follows which I believe must be your ancestors.
"in loving memory of our dear father David Jack who died 22nd May 1937 aged 65 yrs, and our dear mother Ann Cowie Jack who died 14th Dec. 1953 aged 79 years, also their two children who died in infancy."
Hope this is of some help to you. Torrygirl
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Torrygirl, thank you so very much for this information.I never knew when David died, as my Father never mentioned him so I thought he must have died before Dad was born. This is a great help. Thanks again.
Heather Jack
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I too am a descendant of the Jack and McLeman families
My gr gr grandparents were Lewis Jack and Janet McLeman. I have Lewis born in 1801 to David / Lewis Jack and Ann Patience, now I'm told he died in 1874 and was never married , the other Lewis, b 1803 to Alexander Sounie Jack and Janet Jack is the right one. If anyone can help me find further info on them I'd be very gratful as it would stop me from going insane Val
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Hi Val,
Sorry I don't think I'm able to help you. The furthest I know back until, is my Great Grandfather David, who was born 14/09/1871 to David and Margaret Jack. I don't have any information on my GG Grandparents as yet.I don't know what Margaret's maiden name was. You are right in saying that it all sends you a little crazy. I have tried getting in contact with distant relatives to try and get some more recent information but to no avail so how am I supposed to find anything out, that goes back much further. Good luck in your search. :)
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David Jack & Margaret Jack were marrried 31 Sep 1853 at Avoch. This information is from David [son] birth cert. David [father]was the informant at the birth of David and his occupation was given as 'Fisher'. Margaret's maiden surname was JACK - just to make it easy for you ;D
If you pm me your email address I'll send David's birth cert to you. :) Edit: if you want the cert.
Joy
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http://www.avoch.org/
http://www.avoch.org/html/jacks.html
good site for avoch
sylvia
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Thank you for your time Joy and Sylvia. The Avoch site is wonderful to take a look at. Lots of great photos.
Finally I have something more on David and Margaret Jack. I was finding it a bit confusing having so many people with the same names to file through. This is great news. Thank you again. Heather
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Hi Heather :)
This is what I've found out so far:
David JAck b 14 Sep 1871 Avoch
Father David Jack
Mother Margaret Jack m/s Jack ( cert sent to you)
David Jack married Margaret Jack 30 Sep 1853 Avoch occupation 'fisher' (info from OPR's & David's birth cert)
David Jack died 10 Mar 1883
Margaret Jack died 22 Jun 1906 (info for deaths from death certs off SP)
David snr b 9 Sep 1824 bap 18 Sep 1824
Father Donald Jack 'Certain'
Mother Flora Jack m/s Jack (info from OPR's and David jnr death cert)
Margaret Jack b 30 Sep 1832 bap 3 Oct 1832
Father Alexander Jack
Mother Catherine Jack m/s Jack ( info from IGI and Margaret's death cert)
I'll send the certs to you tonight :) :)
Regards
Joy
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Dear Joy,
You have brought tears to my eyes.I feel so emotional. My Father died a couple of years ago. He never spoke much about his family and we realised too late that we never asked many questions. We have no extended family here in Australia and don't really know relatives in the UK{ on my Father's side}. I tried contacting the Avoch web site mentioned above, to try and see if anyone remembered Dad and his family but the information that I finally got back, didn't really seem to fit.
I know I've said it before but thank you so very much.
Heather Jack
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Dear Heather
Don't get too emotional for there's more ;D ;D
Donald Jack married Flora Jack 31 Oct 1821 Avoch & had the following children:
David Jack b 2 Sep 1824 bapt 18 Sep 1824 (Your GG/Grandfather)
Donald Jack b 20 Oct 1827 bapt 6 Dec 1827
Ann Jack b 25 Sep 1829 bapt 22 Nov 1829
Margaret Jack b 1 Oct 1831 bapt 28 Jul 1836
James Jack b 3 Jan 1833 bapt 28 Jul 1836 They obviously had bulk baptisms ;D ;D
Helen Jack b 15 Mar bapt 28 Jul 1836
Flora Jack b 25 Mar 1838 bapt 25 Aug 1844
Lewis Jack b 20 Mar 1840 bapt 29 Aug 1844
Simona Geddes MacLeay Jack b 2 Mar 1842 bapt 29 Aug 1844
The above info is all from the IGI and all extracted entries which means that they were taken from the actual parish records.
Have to go now and have tea will give you Alexander & Catherine's details later.
Joy :) :)
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Dear Joy,
Thank you. You have given me something to move on with now. I thought I had come to a full stop with Dad's side of the family but you have given me lots to work with. This has been truly wonderful.
Heather ;D :)
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Me again Heather ;D ;D
Alexander Jack married Catherine Jack m/s Jack 8 Nov 1821 Avoch. I cannot view the OPR marriages on S P for 1821. They are available but only by ordering an extract for 10 GBPounds. Same applies to Donald and Flora's marriage, they give you the dates but you can't view them. The OPR's would probably/usually give you the wife's father's name.
In the meantime here are the children (may not be all) for Alexander and Catherine:
Alexander MacKenzie Jack b 16 Sep 1823 bapt 27 Sep 1823
Donald Jack b 1 May 1825 bapt 19 May 1825
Alexander JAck b 11 Aug 1828 bapt 21 Aug 1828
Catherine Jack b 21 Oct 1830 bapt 7 Jan 1831
Margaret Jack b 30 Sep 1832 bapt 3 Oct 1832 ( your GG/Grandmother )
Alexander Jack b 3 Jan 1835 bapt 23 Jan 1835
Simon Jack b 3 Jan 1835 bapt 23 Jan 1835 (Twins????)
Mary JAck b 12 Dec 1838 bapt 16 Feb 1839
Isabella Jack b 5 Nov 1841 bapt 8 Jan 1842
I hope that this will be of help to you
Joy
PS I'll start on the census hunt - perhaps tomorrow ;) ;)
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Dear Joy,
You are a wonder. Thank you again. I hope you have a great weekend.I'm off to bed now. Hopefully all this new information won't keep me awake all night thinking it all through.
Thanks, :) Heather
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Hello Heather :D
David Jack & Margaret Jack (Your GG/Grandparents) had the following children (may have been more)
Donald b 19 Nov 1854 bapt 2 Dec 1854 - infant death?
Alexander b 25 October 1856
Flora b 12 Feb 1859
Catherine b 30 Jun 1861
Donald b 15 October 1865
Margaret b 1 Apr 1867
David b 3 Sep 1869 - infant death?
David b 14 Sep 1871
All born Avoch. Info from IGI and census records.
Next posting will be the census details.
Joy ;D :)
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Heather 1861 census info.
Shore Road Avoch. H/hold schedule 97
David Jack marr fisher head born Avoch 36yrs
Margaret Jack wife marr b Avoch 27yrs
Flora dau 2 yrs
Alexander would have been around 5 yrs, so perhaps he was staying with Grandparents etc.
1871 Census Avoch H/hold Sched 28
Sea Shore Road
Margaret Jack wife marr fishermans wife 38 yrs b Avoch
Alexander son unm b Avoch 14 yrs
Flora dau unm scholar b Avoch 12 yrs
Catherine unm dau b Avoch 9 yrs
Margaret unm dau b Avoch 4 yrs
David was possibly away fishing on census night.
I'll give you the 1881, 1891 & 1901 either tonight or tomorrow - have to eat now
Joy
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Dear Joy,
Sorry that you are spending so much time on this for me. It is fabulous though and I am extremely appreciative. You have made me very happy. I wish I was able to share all of this with Dad. When I saw on one of the certificates the address of"Factor Lane", I was over joyed ,as this was one of the things I did know, as Dad grew up in this house.
Thank you again so very much.
Heather
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Heather, please don't worry - I am delighted to be able to help you. The rest of the census info will follow tomorrow ;D
Off to bed now - night sweet dreams
Joy :D :D
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Hi Heather
1881 Census for Avoch
5 Factory Lane
David Jack marr 55 yrs head Fisherman
Margaret Jack wife marr 47 yrs
Alexander Jack unm Fisherman 24 yrs son
Flora Jack 22 yrs unm Fisherman's dau
Donald Jack unm 17 yrs fisherman
Margaret Jack unm 14 yrs scholar dau
David Jack 9 yrs scholar son
All born Avoch
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Heather
1891 Census Avoch h/hold sched 18
1 Factory Lane
Margaret Jack widow 58 yrs Fishermans widow
Flora unm dau 31 yrs imbecile
David unm son 19 yrs fisherman
David was neither an employer nor an employee but was working on his own account.
This is the first indication that there was anything wrong with Flora, though there was provision for that description on the 1871 census. I wonder if perhaps she'd had an accident or illness between '71 & '81 census?
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Heather ;D
1901 Census Avoch H/hold sched 25
6 Factory Lane
Margaret Jack widow 67 yrs
The above entry on the census is her son Donald & family also at 6 Factory Lane, so she was obviously living with them.
No sign of Flora, perhaps she died or was in an asylum.
I will send you the census images tonight or tomorrow.
Anything else I can help you with? :)
Joy :)
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Hi Joy, ;D
You have been extremely busy.I've just finished work and now have a few days off to go through all this information. You have been too kind. Thank you again.
I feel so greedy asking you this but are you able to find out anything about David Jack's wife, Ann {Annie} Cowie. She was born 27/07/1874 to Alexander and Jane { Morrison} Cowie. She died 14/12/1953. I believe the Cowie's came from around Macduff or Banff maybe. She brought up my Father and he stayed with her until her death.
It makes you hungry to know more. It would be great to spend time with each of these people, to be able to put a face to these names and know a bit of their history.
I hope you have a great day. :) You have helped me and my family greatly. We'll have lots to talk about when we all get together this weekend.Thank you from all of us.
Heather
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I have a photo of the gravestone of Ann Cowie Jack and David Jack from Avoch Old Churchyard. As there are some recent names added to the stone I dont want to post it here but if you pm me your email address I will send a copy of if you would like one.
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Thank you Ghostwhisperer.
Have a great day.
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Thank you to everyone who has helped me. I have now started on piecing everything together.
My GGG Grandfather's " nick" name was "Certain"- does anyone know what that refers to? Was he always right?
Thanks, Heather
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For what it's worth - and I know this will probably sound a bit twee - but my mother's family come from Ardrishaig in Argyll. My maternal grandmother could speak a bit of gaelic and often referred to my older brother as Gille Dubh (Dark Lad) and me as Balachan Ban (Little Fair haired Lad) - my head features rather less hair these days unfortunately.
Doddie
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Hi Doddie, :)
Thank you for your reply. It would be handy to speak and understand Gallic
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Sorry Doddie for my spelling. I meant Gaelic. How stupid of me.
Heather
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Thank you to everyone for your help.
Completed
Regards Heather
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I have a photo of the gravestone of Ann Cowie Jack and David Jack from Avoch Old Churchyard. As there are some recent names added to the stone I dont want to post it here but if you pm me your email address I will send a copy of if you would like one.
My grandpa was Donald Jack, born in Avoch 1920, his mother was Anne Cowie (from peterhead/buckie) and David Jack (from Avoch). He joined the royal navy at the age of 14 and in the late 40's, moved to London. Married Betty Donaghue, from S.ireland.
That gravestone is my great grandma and grandpa, would I be able to get a copy of the photo, please?
Ta
betj
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If you send me your email by the pm system I will forward on a photo.
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If you send me your email by the pm system I will forward on a photo.
Ta x
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Thankyou whisperer, I am ever so grateful.
Those 2 added names are my late grandparents. They were cremated in Berkshire, UK and my parents traveled up to Avoch and had their ashes burried with my grandpa's ma and pa.
This is the 1st time I have seen my grandparent's memorial stone, means a lot to me.
Miss them dearly xx
p.s. isn't it strange how you always though a grandparent's name was spelt one way and you find out it was a total diff spelling.
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Glad to help :)
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My Great Grandparents were David Jack and Annie Cowie. Annie died around 1952. David, I think, died prior to 1933. I don't know how many children they had but I do know their eldest was David. There was also a Bill, Donald and Margaret.Margaret was my Father's { Vincent Jack born 1933} mother.
My father was raised by Annie Cowie and they lived on Factory Lane.
That is about as much as I know so far.Thank you Torrygirl.
Coooeyyyy over here.................my mum, dad and bro came out to see you guys around 2006 time! Although we have never met ;D
Uncle Vincent used to take me and grandpa (donald) up on a golfing range that over looked the sea, before he went back out to Australia.
Always reminded me of sean connery ;D