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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: nick92 on Friday 02 May 08 01:02 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I'm having problems with my ancestors on my great grandmother's side!
She was born into a family of mainly Irish-scots.
But my interest now it is not her Irish ancestors, it is her Scottish ancestors.
Her grandmother Jane Brooks was born c. 1838 in Glasgow (as it says on a census record but I know that the place of birth in census records aren't always right, but she was born for sure in Scotland, and must be born in the area of Glasgow, North Lanarkshire, Dunbartonshire, Ayrshire or even Renfrew and all around there!)
She was the daughter of Walter Brooks & Janet Scott.
My problem it is that I can't find the mariage of Walter Brooks & Janet Scott, just like if it didn't exist (anymore)!
I've search for the mariage of Walter Brooks in Scotland, but nobody of this name married to a Janet Scott and the same for the opposite.
So I've started searching in the history of Scotland, and saw that Scottish from the Isles and Highlands when going to the Lowlands anglicised their surname or even changed them!
Did this still happened in the beginning of the 19th century ?
Could that be the case for my ancestor, Walter Brooks ?
I first started the topic about her Irish ancestor because I had problems finding the date and place of birth of all the children of Jane Brooks and her husband, James MacGrannathan, and finally I've seen that they were almost all born with different spelling of the name such as McGranathan, McGranithan, McGranathin, etc..., and even without the 'Mc' for one of their daughter which I think is quite strange that only for her the 'Mc' was took off and then put back on for the other children after her!
But about the different spelling of surnames, I thought Brooks would have been spelled differently or even Scott, but no I've tried all of the possibles variations spelling of these surnames as for as I know ???
Please can anybody help me!!!
Thank you! :)
Nick.
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Hi Nick,
You may have problems, would the family be Church of Scotland, if so, there maybe a chance but the records pre-1855 were Old Parish records and mainly Church of Scotland.
So maybe that is why you cannot find them.
Tom
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Hi Nick,
Could you tell us where you got Jane's parents' names? Was it from a marriage or death certificate? If so, the latter can often be unreliable for names, mostly depending on the person registering the death.
The closest I could find is a Walter Brook marrying a Janet Ross in 1838 in Glasgow. They later had a daughter Annabella in 1839.
I also checked the 1841 census for Scotland. One entry caught my eye - a Brock family in Hamilton, Lanarkshire, headed by John, a grocer and spirit dealer. There's a Jane, aged 1 (which may match with your's) and a Walter Scott, also a grocer & spirit dealer. I'm not sure if that's of any significance or not. ;)
Regards,
hume24
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Hello,
I don’t know to which she belonged, but on her granddaughter’s mariage certificate, it is said that she married into the United Free Church of Scotland, and the Irish in my great grandmother’s family came from Northern Ireland.
I’ve got Jane’s parents on her death certificate. She died in 1902, in Glasgow, widow of James McGranthin, Labourer, (d. 1894, Glasgow) and was the daughter of Walter Brook, a Hand Loom Weaver, (deceased) & Janet Scott (deceased).
The Informant of the death was her daughter, Mary Miller (born McGrannathan, in 1864).
I don’t think that the Walter Brook & Janet Ross are her parents because I can’t find any birth of a Jane Brook to these two parents.
On the other hand, if what you are saying is right about the uncorrect informations that I could find in death certificate, my Jane Brook could be, Jean Brock born in 1835 in Glasgow to Walter Brock & Janet Mitchell.
On the 1841 census for Scotland that you’ve found, what caught my eye it is that there is a Walter Scott and that he was a spirit dealer, and Jane Brook’s son, Walter McGranathan on a census, it says that he is a Spirit Salesman!
And this trade of spirit might came from a family member of Walter McGranathan!
So I think there might be a connection with my Brooks, but which one ?
What’s the connection of Walter & Jane to the head, John, in the census record that you found ?
Thank you,
Regards,
Nick.
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Hi again Nick,
As it's the 1841 census, no relationships show in the household. However, it looks likely that young Jane is a daughter of John. Walter may only be a lodger. The entry is available to view on FreeCen, by searching for Jane BROCK, age 1, in Lanarkshire.
I'm not sure if this is your family, but I thought the names used were interesting. :)
hume24
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Perhaps they married outside Scotland
I couldn't find a marriage for Jane Brooks to James McGranthin either
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Hello Nick,
PRE-1855 RECORDS IN SCOTLAND
Your main problem is that you are almost certainly searching for events prior to the start of Statutory Registration in Scotland - it began there in 1855.
So it may well be (I'm sorry to say) that you will be unable to find any record of the birth/baptism of Jane (BROOKS) MCGRANNATHAN, nor of Jane's marriage to James.
This might be because Jane wasn't baptized at all, or that she was baptized in a church the records of which have not been indexed in the IGI, or have not survived, etc, etc.
Similarly for the marriage ...
Pre-1855, the main records will be found on ScotlandsPeople and/or in the IGI. Pre-1855, SP only has records from the Old Parish Registers i.e. only records from the established presbyterian Church of Scotland - it does not have records from other churches.
Extracted Scottish records in the IGI are mostly from the OPRs though there are some records from other churches.
There were many breakaway presbyterian groups from the established Church of Scotland and these groups had many many members. An interesting diagram and explanation can be found at:
http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html
RECORDS OF JAMES MCGRANNATHAN & JANE BROOKS
Perhaps you could let us know all the information (records, censuses, etc) you have about the family?
On the IGI I found the following children of James MCGRANNATHAN & Jane BROOKS (all from the Statutory Registers):
Mary b 1856, Rothesay Bute (spelled in the IGI with a space after the MC)
John b 1858, Shotts Lanarkshire
Jane b 1860, Shotts Lanarkshire (without the MC)
Sarah b 1863, Penicuik Midlothian
Mary b 1864, Penicuik Midlothian
James b 1865, Penicuik Midlothian
Walter William b 1867, Shotts (also Calton) Lanarkshire
Sarah b 1870 Shotts Lanarkshire
Edward b 1872 Linlithgow West Lothian (Jane's surname given as GROCKS)
So this certainly suggests that James & Jane were married pre-1855. They might also have had children pre-1855 who did not survive - only Mary, John & Jane are in the 1861 census.
In 1861, the family was in Denny, Stirlingshire - James, a labourer, b Ireland; Jean (this name is interchangeable with Jane) b Glasgow ca 1836; and children Mary 5, John 3, Jane 1.
In 1901, the widowed Jane, a retired paper finisher b Glasgow ca 1838, was in Govan with son Edward.
JANE BROOKS
As has been pointed out, details on death certificates are often unreliable. They are given at a time of stress and, in any case, Mary might well not have correctly remembered the given names of her grandparents and maiden surname of her grandmother ...
And, by the 1851 census, Jane might well have have been working away from home ...
Sorry to be so pessimistic.
JAP
PS: Have you read Boongie Pam's post (stickied near the top of the Scotland-General board) on "Where to start with Scottish research".
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The 1841 census entry in Hamilton with a 1yo Jane BROCK probably needs to be ruled out ...
There's also a Helen BROCK 5 and a Margaret BROCK 3. From the IGI this family looks like:
Parents John BROCK & Margaret KING who married in 1834 in Hamilton, baptisms all in Hamilton:
Helen bap 1836
Margaret Davidson bap 1838
Jane King bap 1840
JAP
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Hello Jap,
You might be right, but about James McGranathan & Jane Brooks mariage, I found some time ago a mariage between Jane Brooks & James Migranscher, in 1854, in New Monkland or Airdrie!
I think that’s my ancestors, because the dates and place corresponds and the two surnames McGranathan & Migranscher are not that different! The “Mc” became “Mi”, the “Gran” stayed the same, and the “-athan” became “-scher”. I don’t know how come it changed, but everything is possible!
My Irish ancestors came from Northern Ireland, so I guess they were Protestant, that would explain that I don’t have problems finding them in the Scottish records!
By the way, Jane Brooks could have been born Jean or even Janet! I think you were aware about that, but in case you didn't know. ;)
Of course I can give you all I have on the Family.
* Death certificate of James McGranathan :
James McGranathan, stocker, married to Jane Brooks, died on November 11, 1894 at the Royal Infirmary in Glasgow, his usual residence was 12, Strachebede (not sure if it is exactly was it is written) Street.
He died at the age of 60 years old. Parents were John McGranathan (deceased) , General Labourer & MaryAnn McKay (deceased). The informant of the death was James McGranathan, his son.
* Death certificate of Jane Brooks :
Jane McGranthin, widow of James McGranthin, Labourer, died on June 23, 1902 in Glasgow at 250, Humleddem (not sure) Drive.
She died at the age of 64 years old. Parents were Walter Brooks (deceased) , Hand Loom Weaver, & Janet Scott (deceased). The informant of the death was Mary Miller, daughter, present.
* 1871 Census :
Given name : James Janet Mary John Janet James Walter Sarah
Surname : McGrannathan " " " " " " "
Relation to head : Head Wife Daughter Son Daughter Son Daughter Daughter
Condition : Married Married Unmarried
Age : 45 34 15 13 11 6 3 1
Sex : M F F M F M M F
Occupation : Fireman Mill Worker Mill Worker Scholar
Birthplace : Ireland Glasgow Rothesay Shotts Shotts Penicuik Glasgow Shotts
* 1881 Census :
Given name : Edward Jane Jane Sarah Walter John
Surname : McGranthin McGranthin McGranthin McGranthin McGranthin Sutherland
Relation to head : Son Head Daughter Daughter Son Grandson
Condition : N/A Married Unmarried N/A N/A N/A
Age : 9 42 20 11 13 5 month
Sex : M F F F M M
Occupation : Scholar Mill Worker Mill Worker Scholar Paper Maker
Birthplace : Linlithgow Glasgow Shotts Shotts Glasgow Milngavie
* 1891 Census :
Given name : James
Surname : McGranathan
Relation to head : Board
Condition : Married
Age : 56
Sex : M
Occupation : Fireman Stationary (it says he was employed by “Boiler”)
Birthplace : Ireland
* 1891 Census :
Given name : Jane Edward John
Surname : McGranthan McGranthan Brooks
Relation to head : Head Son Grandson
Condition :
Age : 33 19 10
Sex : F M M
Occupation :Formerly Paper Mill Worker Paper Mill Worker Scholar
Birthplace : Glasgow Linlithgow Milngavie
This census is wrong! Jane McGranthan was my great great grandmother and the Edward listed as her son was her brother, just have to look at where he was born and when and it is exactly the same as his brother.
The John Brooks isn’t her grandson, because the ages doesn’t correspond and at that time Jane just had her first child, so she couldn’t be grandmother yet!
I don’t know how come they are all living in the same house, where are the parents of Jane & Edward ?
Who is John Brooks ? Strangly his age, place of birth and name are the same as the John Sutherland in the 1881 census !!! i wonder if it isn't the same child ???
I’ve give you all the main informations I’ve got, I hope you understand everything I gave you!
Thank you!
Best Regards.
Nick.
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Hi Nick
If you have a look at one of the children's birth certs (for James McGranathan and Jane Brooks) from the mid 1860s onwards, the register entry should include the date and place of parents marriage which would let you confirm that likely 1854 marriage entry you have found in New Monkland. This information was introduced on to Scottish birth certs around this time.
Regards.
Monica :)
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Hi Monica,
Thanks for that information, I'll try and get one as soon as possible, and check. :D
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Hi Nick92,
* 1881 Census :
Given name : Edward Jane Jane Sarah Walter John
Surname : McGranthin McGranthin McGranthin McGranthin McGranthin Sutherland
Relation to head : Son Head Daughter Daughter Son Grandson
Condition : N/A Married Unmarried N/A N/A N/A
Age : 9 42 20 11 13 5 month
Sex : M F F F M M
Occupation : Scholar Mill Worker Mill Worker Scholar Paper Maker
Birthplace : Linlithgow Glasgow Shotts Shotts Glasgow Milngavie
* 1891 Census :
Given name : Jane Edward John
Surname : McGranthan McGranthan Brooks
Relation to head : Head Son Grandson
Condition :
Age : 33 19 10
Sex : F M M
Occupation :Formerly Paper Mill Worker Paper Mill Worker Scholar
Birthplace : Glasgow Linlithgow Milngavie
This census is wrong! Jane McGranthan was my great great grandmother and the Edward listed as her son was her brother, just have to look at where he was born and when and it is exactly the same as his brother.
The John Brooks isn’t her grandson, because the ages doesn’t correspond and at that time Jane just had her first child, so she couldn’t be grandmother yet!
I don’t know how come they are all living in the same house, where are the parents of Jane & Edward ?
Who is John Brooks ? Strangly his age, place of birth and name are the same as the John Sutherland in the 1881 census !!! i wonder if it isn't the same child ???
I’ve give you all the main informations I’ve got, I hope you understand everything I gave you!
Thank you!
Best Regards.
Nick.
I think you may have to consider that the Jane McGranthin in the 1891 may in fact be the mother jane McGranthin and her age has been mistranscribed as 33 instead of 53. Given that the grandson's name is Brooks, I think that it is not Jane the sister but the mother. Anyway keep an open mind until you get other documentary proof. Good luck with your searches.
Tom
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Hello again Nick,
Thank you for posting all that information.
1. I agree with you that the 1854 entry - from the Old Parish Register of the established Church of Scotland in New Monkland, Lanarkshire - for a marriage between Jane BROOKS and James MIGRANSCHER is surely yours.
As Monica has suggested, if you download a birth certificate from ScotlandsPeople for one of the younger children, it should give the date and place of the parents’ marriage (which would presumably confirm or disprove that the record is your people).
The ‘What’s in the Database’ section of the ScotlandsPeople site indicates what details are given on a Statutory Register birth certificate; to quote from the SP site:
"Couple: date and place of marriage – 1855, then 1861 to date".
You might also wish to download from SP the OPR entry for the 1854 marriage to see whether James’s surname is just a transcription error.
2. I definitely agree with Tom that the age given for Jane (BROOKS) ‘MCGRANTHIN’ in the 1891 census – 33 – is just an error (probably a transcription error) for 53. That is, she is Edward’s mother and the grandmother of young John. Note also that her birthplace is given as Glasgow (as it always is for Jane snr) whereas Jane jnr was born in Shotts.
3. Jane and Jean are interchangeable and are even combined in the IGI i.e. a search for a Jane will bring up all those named Jean as well. And yes, at times – though less commonly in my own experience – a Jane/Jean will be recorded as Janet. Also note that a very common alternate in Scotland for Janet is Jessie – so you will need to consider that as well in your searches for Jane (BROOKS) MCGRANNATHAN prior to her marriage, and in your searches for her parents.
4. It does rather look as though grandson John SUTHERLAND and grandson John BROOKS are one and the same person :) I guess you could search on SP for his birth certificate (under either name - and also, in case he was illegitimate, under MCGRANNATHAN or variant) and download it to see if it gives any clues.
5. My Irish ancestors came from Northern Ireland, so I guess they were Protestant, that would explain that I don’t have problems finding them in the Scottish records!
Sorry, but no, it wouldn't!
The reason you have found all the births of the MCGRANNATHAN children is because they were born after 1855 and thus they were registered in the civil Statutory Register which commenced in 1855 (it's nothing to do with their religion).
The reason you have found the likely marriage of James & Jane is not simply because it was recorded in a Protestant (in the general sense) Register but because the marriage was entered into one quite specific Protestant church register; namely into an OPR (Old Parish/Parochial Register) of the established Church of Scotland.
I'm happy to expand further but hope you don't mind if I suggest that you first re-read my earlier post (reply #6) and look at the link which I gave (the established Church of Scotland is represented by the straight line at the far left of the diagram on that site).
I am stressing this because it is such a very important point in relation to your search for a baptism for Jane BROOKS, and in your search for her parents.
Best of luck,
JAP
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Nick,
I am a direct descendant of Jane Brooks and James McGranthin.
I have a copy of an OLD PAROCHIAL REGISTER for the parish of New Monkland showing the Proclamation of the Banns for the marriage of these two. (I have tried to attach a copy for you but I think it might be too large.)
The date is MAY 1854.
This predates the modern registration of marriages and that's why you can find no trace of a normal certificate.
Also, James' name is McGranachan on this list.
And if you google for Migranscher you should find a reference to it on the Mormon database. The original is rather illegible and has been transcribed incorrectly.
I am also having trouble with finding out more about Jane and James' parents. Because of the Irish naming conventions I am pretty sure that James' father would be called John and his mother, Mary. But the surname is a problem and can be spelt in a number of ways. This far back, though, I would expect it to be the McGranachan or McGranaghan version.
Would be happy to discuss the family in more detail. You are the first other McGranachan/ McGranthin questor I have come across!!
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Hi dunlinds!
Thanks for contacting me, I was trying to send you my email address via Personal Messages but it doesnt work, so could you send me yours, please.
Thanks.
Talk to you soon I hope,
Nick.
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Nick, please see copy from PM rules below.
"New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
If you are sending PMs to new members who have less than three posts you will receive an error message, that your limit, or allowed number has been reached. (note that it says your limit, although it actually refers to the recipient.)
Attachments are not allowed on PMs"
I have only made the one posting to you. This will be my second.
So I have to do another before you can contact me using personal messages.
I'll do another dummy one then hopefully we can communicate!
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THIRD POSTING!!
And hopefully my pass to Personal Messaging!
Would you please try to contact me again. Fingers crossed.
D
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Hello everyone. I'm very invested in this tread. My last name is 'McGrannathan' and iv been trying to build a family tree on ancestry.com to follow my last name. as far as I know I'm the only McGrannathan on earth? but all I could reach was my great grandfather Edward McGrannathan who was born 1872 and immigrated to canada from Glasgow, Scotland. If anyone has any information or a way I could find out more please contact me.. Thanks :)
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Do you have his birth certificate which will give his parents names?
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Hi Dusto,
Welcome to Rootschat, I have found the birth of Edward McGrannathan on 25 January 1872 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland to parents James McGrannathan and Jane Grooks (sic), an Extracted Record on IGI.
Tom
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Hi all :)
There are more children showing for for James McGrannathan and Jane BROOKS on the IGI
Also this marriage :-\
Jane Brooks and James Migranscher May 1854 New Monkland Lanark
ev
Added - Looks like this has already been answered
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Hi Dusto,
If you go to Scotland Peoples website http://scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ (http://scotlandspeople.gov.uk/) you can register there and it will cost you Canadian equivalent of £7 for 30 credits, you will get an online copy for 6 credits, (1 for search and 5 for certificate ). There is only 1 Edward McGrannathan born in 1872 in Linlithgow, West Lothian.
On the 1871 census, there were 8 McGrannathans in Linlithgow but none in the 1881 census, so I take it they emigrated before 1881.
Tom
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Hello Tom.
WOW! thank you for the fast reply. I looked up James McGrannathan on ancestry.com and it shows his wife as Jean McGrannathan not Jane? and a list of all house hold residents. Mary, John, and Jane McGrannathan. I'm assuming there children? Not sure. But no name with Edward McGrannathan? but its a nice start.
when i try to look any further on James McGrannathan on ancestor.com a message shows up saying.
"Unfortunately, we are unable to display the accompanying images of this census at present, despite extensive negotiation with the General Register Office for Scotland. Permission from them has not, as yet, been forthcoming."
What is IGI? could this help me more?
Thank you so much for the information you gave me.
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Oh!! LOL you gave me more info.. you can disregard my last post :)
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Hi Dusto, by reading all the previous posts in this thread you'll find lots of information regading your ancestors. The death certificates of James & Jane give the names of their parents. If you are trying to find other descendants with your surname you'll need to trace Edward's siblings forward in the censuses to see if they married &/or had offspring. Scotlandspeople is the site where you can view the certificates which hold a lot of information. There's a good chance that fellow rootschatters will be distant relatives also.
flst :)
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Edward Mcgranathan died 10th Oct. 1942 North Vancouver British Columbia , Born 25th Jan. 1872
parents James Mcgrannathan and ? Grooks
https://www.familysearch.org/
ev
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Hi ev and dusto,
The Grook surname ties up with my reply no 19. The IGI stands for the International Genealogical Index, and is found on the Latter Day Saint website, and can be found on following website,
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
This index is good upto 1874/75, it is free and can help you find your family.
Tom
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Hi ev. Yes he passed away here. but who is this Grooks? Brooks... Iv seen that name come up on a google search before. This is all becoming very difficult to follow. lol Do you know the names of the children to James and Jane McGrannathan?
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1871 census transcription
James McGrannathaw 45 born Ireland
Janet McGrannathaw 34 born Glasgow
Mary McGrannathaw 15
John McGrannathaw 13
Janet McGrannathaw 11
James McGrannathaw 6
Walter McGrannathaw 3
Sarah McGrannathaw 1
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They had a son called Joseph who died 14 October 1875 aged 6 days at Torphichen Linlithgow
Father is James McGrannathan (coal miner) and Jane Brooks
The 'B' is dis-jointed making it look like a G
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Hi all,
I was just going to post the following and suggest James the father was a miner, as to all the places he lived in,
MARY MCGRANNATHAN 07 AUG 1856 Rothesay, Bute, Scotland
JOHN MCGRANNATHAN 11 APR 1858 Shotts, Lanark, Scotland
JANE MCGRANNATHAN 1860 in 1861 census at Denny, Stirlingshire.
SARAH MC GRANNATHAN 09 JAN 1863 Penicuik, Midlothian, Scotland
MARY MC GRANNATHAN 11 FEB 1864 Penicuik, Midlothian, Scotland
WALTER WILLIAM MCGRANNATHAN 25 AUG 1867 Calton or Shotts, Lanark, Scotland
SARAH MCGRANNATHAN 01 MAR 1870 Shotts, Lanark, Scotland
EDWARD MCGRANNATHAN 25 JAN 1872 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Tom
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Hello sancti. I'm trying to find a name Edward McGrannathan linked to his Father James McGrannathan. but I can't find any relation. James might not be his father? or many he had a child with another woman, not "Jane Brooks". you never now what are ancestors did :P
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Hi Dusto,
Did you manage to get Edward's birth certificate, from the Scotland Peoples website, it will answer your questions.
Tom
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Thank you again Tom.. that was answer I was looking for. A name with a birthday that match... Im going to look at the site you suggested... I didn't really want to spend anymore money on an other web site that never went anywhere. but I will now :)
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Thank you everyone for your input.... VERY MUCH appreciated
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Looks like the family were still in Scotland 1881
Jane Mc Granthin 44
Jane Mc Granthin 20
Walter Mc Granthin 13
Sarah Mc Granthin 11
Edward Mc Granthin 9
John Sutherland 5 Mo grandson
Address: Allander Place New Kilpatrick
And 1891
Jane McGranthan 33
Edward McGranthan 19 Paper mill worker
John Brooks 10
High St Milngavie
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James McGrannathan died in Glasgow Royal Infirmary 11 Nov 1894 of Chronic Pleurisy
Married to Jane Brooks his parents were given as John McGrannathan and Mary Ann McKay
Son James was the informant
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1891 census
John McQuenie 31
Catherine McQuenie 33
Mary McQuenie 7
Catherine McQuenie 5
Margaret McQuenie 3
Annie McQuenie 1
James McGranathan 56 boarder born Ireland Occupation: Fireman Stationary Boiler
Address: Woodland West 23 Milngavie, New Kilpatrick
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it is said that she married into the United Free Church of Scotland
Remember that the Free Church only came into existence in 1843, and the United Free Church was much later, about 1900. You have already been referred to the fantastic chart which gives you some idea of the complicated history of the Presbyterian churches in Scotland at http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html
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I looked up James McGrannathan on ancestry.com
Do not trust anything you find on A*******. Use it as a guide to finding the genuine original documents on Scotland's People. They are not available on A******* whatever A******* may claim.
What is IGI? could this help me more?
The International Genealogical Index, also known as the Mormon Index, found at http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
Do not trust anything you find on the IGI, especially if it was 'submitted' rather than 'extracted'. The IGI is an unbeatable finding aid, but it is neither 100% comprehensive nor 100% correct. Use it as a guide to finding the genuine original documents on Scotland's People.
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@ Fortarian
I'm starting to see that. A****** has only given me more unanswered questions. The only true valid information Iv found so far is from actual distant relatives. And they only seem to have the least of what I'm trying to find with all there best efforts. unfortunately for me I have no remaining McGrannathan's alive to question. As Im guessing all rootschat guests suffer with in one way or another looking for there history. lol But its that magic break through that we/ I'm hoping to find sometime... if not, were all alive and well pass on what we learn to are children :)
thanks for your help
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Dusto I think you have relatives still living in Scotland if you search Scotlandspeople index of marriages
I think this is Walter
1896 MCGRANTHIN WALTER and FERGUSON JANE at DENNISTOUN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK
There are others that are too recent to put on this post due to privacy rules
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Yes try Scotlandpeople marriages and Deaths if you are look for more recent one, but make sure you have your facts straight as it is not free - and only if married or died in the middle of last century approx 50/75 years ago. However you can check the birth register index if less than 100yrs (but no record available unless you pay for a copy - can get expensive) (approx.all Scottish Births are on the register index 1855-2011/12)
But again best to check your facts first
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Hi Dusto, by reading all the previous posts in this thread you'll find lots of information regading your ancestors. The death certificates of James & Jane give the names of their parents. If you are trying to find other descendants with your surname you'll need to trace Edward's siblings forward in the censuses to see if they married &/or had offspring. Scotlandspeople is the site where you can view the certificates which hold a lot of information. There's a good chance that fellow rootschatters will be distant relatives also.
flst :)
Don't know if you read my post earlier, but I too think you will find relatives.
flst
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hi flst. yes I read your post :) I never really thought about finding distant relatives. but that would be really interesting if that was to happen. I know theres lots of sure names that are closely spelt and sound like McGrannathan but I haven't ever found or seen it spelt the way mine is? I think thats why Im so intrigued with this.. as far as I know my boys are the only way to keep the name going.
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Actually the spelling of a surname isn't important. Names were written down the way they sounded, which explains how siblings who moved from their home parish ended up with their surnames being spelled differently! :)
flst
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Dusto, with James coming from Ireland it is possible that he was illiterate
If you look at the death certificate for Joseph you will see that the informants (James) was present but the signature appears to be written in the same hand of the registrar so the spelling of the name is due to the registrars interpretation.
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Dusto, with James coming from Ireland it is possible that he was illiterate
If you look at the death certificate for Joseph you will see that the informants (James) was present but the signature appears to be written in the same hand of the registrar so the spelling of the name is due to the registrars interpretation.
I am not sure that is necessarily the case. My understanding is that the informant was asked to sign, and if unable to do so, to mark a cross which was then witnessed by (usually) the registrar and another person who could sign their name. The registrar then made a second copy in his own hand. One of the copies was retained by the Registrar and the other was sent to Edinburgh. So if the copy sent to Edinburgh happened to be the second one, it would not contain the original signature or witnessed cross. To be absolutely certain you would have to view both the image of the Edinburgh copy and the original book retained by the local Registrar.
To quote from G T Bisset-Smith's manual Vital Registration, which was aimed at Registrars, and to be used as a guide to their responsibilities, "From 1st January, 1855, the Local Registrars appointed under the Act have kept a set of registers in duplicate. The Registers are examined annually by the District Examiner, and one set forwarded to Edinburgh, the other set remaining with the Registrar, who carefully preserves all the Registers in his custody in fire-proof safes."
This, by the way, is one of the reasons why it is important that the locally held registers should not be destroyed, as has been proposed from time to time.
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with this birth it shows James McGrannathan as a son, with his fathers name James McGrannathan and mother as Jane McGrannathan? is that right? Im wondering if I'm reading the document right. if so theres Two James Mcgrannathans. father and son.
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Dusto That is the birth record for James, the son of James and Jane m.s. Brooks
Did you notice it is registered as MAC Grannathan?