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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Sumar on Tuesday 29 April 08 20:13 BST (UK)
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My husband has had both maternal & paternal DNA tests recently performed. (His parents are dead)
I want to find out my DNA group.
Being female I know I have to obtain my father's DNA for the male line,
but for the female line is it better to obtain my own or my mother's DNA just incase in the future they can use her stored DNA to obtain her father's line as well as her mother's?
As the tests are expensive I want to get it right.
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The bit of your mother's and your own DNA that matters for genealogical purposes should be identical so it doesn't matter whose is tested. The point is though that a woman carries only her mother's "genealogical" DNA (known as mitochondrial DNA or mtDNA). This is inherited from her mother and her mother etc down the female line.
Men carry both the female mtDNA and the male Y-chromosome or Y-DNA. So a man's DNA can be tested for both the male and female lines. Women can only be tested for the female line.
Hope this helps.
John
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I think you should read up on this; it depends what you are having the DNA test for, and they vary greatly in how many areas they look at.
There is a lot to it - I am reading Family History in the Genes
by Chris Pomery , which I got from the library.
Some of the ones which just say where you came from 50,000 years ago are in my opinion, not worth the money.
If you are looking at a DNA study for family history, see if there is a DNA study for that name.
And be careful, there are a lot of rip-off merchants out there.
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Thank you for your help. For my maternal line I am sure I read that the DNA sample is stored for 10 - 20 years during which time further information can be be extracted as technology allows and that it was hoped that soon a test for maternal fathers line would be available.
My father's DNA is is important to me as I have come to a dead end.
His male line stops in 1803 when Henry Harrison was baseborn. His mother was Dinnis Everett. Her forename appears in parish registers as Dinnis Dainey Denny.
As she does not appear to have married a Harrison and Henry through Parish and census records appears always Harrison and not Everett I can only presume his father was a Harrison.
As I can not prove Harrison was the surname before 1803 I do not think I can join a Harrison DNA project.
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Hi Sumar
Read my message I posted today about DNA as I would love for maternal fathers to be traced. The DNA of the father of my great, great grandmother on may maternal line is very imprtant to me.
My maternal line comes from London and before 1864 in Sussex. I wouldnt mind having the maternal line traced. What will this reveal though in terms of family lines??
Ben
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I am no expert, but you cannot just by DNA testing on it's own determine where your line originated. Because you do not have the DNA from any of your ancestors.
Testing as part of a DNA name study means that you test lots of people with the same surname, and can see which groups might be related. You have to combine this with genealogical research and then you might see which people alive now you are related to and might find some evidence as to which lines came from where.
But just getting your DNA tested and stored, whatever wonderful developments there are, is sadly never going to tell you who the father of an illegimitate child was.
I have an illegitimate ggrandmother, but in the absence of any clues as to who could be the father, dna testing could NEVER reveal this.
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DNA testing can be very useful in some of the scenarios described here such as identifying the surname of an illegitimate ancestor. You do not need the DNA of your deceased ancestor. Y-DNA and mtDNA are passed down virtually unchanged through the generations. It is therefore a question of finding the right person to take the respective DNA test to answer a specific question. This chart shows the transmission of Y-DNA and mtDNA:
http://www.isogg.org/dnapaths.htm
You might also find this article I wrote for the Berkshire Family Historian of interest:
http://www.irishtype3dna.org/DebbieKennett.php
The DNA databases are growing all the time and as more people take DNA tests more people will find random matches to solve such problems. There are, for instance, now many documented success stories of adopted people who have identified their father through DNA testing. One of the best known cases is that of Dick Hill, and his story can be read here:
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/06/rockford_man_uses_dna_testing.html
There is also a video on Roots Television:
http://www.rootstelevision.com/players/player_dna3.php?bcpid=5066419001&bclid=1452188488&bctid=39325007001
To maximise your chances of success in such a situation it is best to test with the company with the largest database. If there is not a surname project which is applicable then you can test through a geographical project to take advantage of project pricing. I've put a full list of all the known geographical projects here:
http://cruwys.blogspot.com/2009/08/dna-projects-for-british-isles.html
There is also a very large project for adoptees:
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Adopted
If you are tracing the maternal line then the Rolls Royce of tests is the full sequence mtDNA test. Family Tree DNA is the only company which currently offers this test and they have just reduced the price by around half.
ISOGG, the International Society of Genetic Genealogy, offers independent advice and has a very good website:
http://www.isogg.org
They also provide useful comparison charts showing the range of tests offered by the different companies though the prices are now a little out of date:
http://www.isogg.org/ydnachart.htm
http://www.isogg.org/mtdnachart.htm
I hope this helps.
Debbie Kennett
Group Administrator of two surname projects (Cruwys/Cruse and Kennett), one geographical project (Devon) and one haplogroup project (mtDNA haplogroup U4)
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Debbie
Thank you for a very useful post. I have had my Y-dna tested and have a very close match with someone who has no known family connection with me. This led me to set up a FTDNA surname project for my unusual surname in the hope that some light may be shed on the problem. I only set up the project a couple of weeks ago and haven't yet had time to round up some volunteers but I am not expecting to be overwhelmed. Reading your notes on English geographical DNA projects and knowing that my match and I have surnames which have been present in the same area for about two hundred years it strikes me that a geographical project might be a lot more productive than a narrowly based surname project. I am thinking that a geographical project might throw up some "false paternity events" which could be interesting.
I would appreciate any further comments you may have on this.
While I am bashing the keys I will throw in another question. This concerns haplogroup projects. I have been designated I2* by FTDNA which is said to be widely but sparsely distributed throughout Europe. I would be very interested in contributing to a study of the origins and dispersal of the haplogroup. However I am unsure as to the worth of a DNA project as most people on the internet discussion groups seem to be intent on their relatively recent history rather than the more distant stuff.
Any comments on this also?
John
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John
How many markers have you had tested? Even at 37 markers it is still possible to have close matches with people of different surnames and these matches are usually of no significance. If however the surnames are both from the same area then it is possibly a different matter, and you might well be able to find the link in the paper trail. Ideally you should test a second person from your line, and preferably someone who is more distantly related (eg, a fourth or fifth cousin). When you get two matching results you have then verified the line back to the point where they share a common male ancestor. You can then focus your research for the illegitimacy or NPE in a more narrow timeframe. For my rare Cruwys surname I have in fact ended up so far with three distinct genetic lines, though I know one is illegitimate. The two main lines originate in the same part of North Devon and both go back several hundred years so I suspect an illegitimacy or change of surname in the distant past. This is one of the reasons why I decided to set up my Devon DNA project. I think geographical projects are potentially very useful and will become more so as more people test. You are welcome to look at my Devon project in case it gives you any ideas:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Devon
I've found with my Devon project that I was able to recruit a lot of people who had already been tested, and I am also bringing in new people for whom there is no pre-existing project. There are a lot of people who want to take a DNA test but don't want the responsibility of running a project, and more people than you might think who are very interested in their deep ancestry.
With regards to your haplogroup there are in fact large numbers of haplogroup projects at Family Tree DNA with lots of people actively pursuing their ancient origins. Have you had a haplogroup backbone test or ordered a deep clade test? It is quite unusual to be I2*, as people are usually I2a or I2b. It's actually quite difficult finding the haplogroup projects at Family Tree DNA. There are however lists on the World Families Network website:
http://www.worldfamilies.net/yhapprojects
http://www.worldfamilies.net/reference_mtDNA
Otherwise you can locate the haplogroup projects by clicking on Join Projects and scrolling down the list. There doesn't seem to be a specific project for I2*. You could join the haplogroup I project:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/HaplogroupIYDNA
It might also be worth asking questions on the haplogroup I mailing list:
http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/DNA/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I.html
Can I suggest too that as a new project admin you join ISOGG (membership is free) and then join the ISOGG project admins mailing list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ISOGG/?yguid=56387448
Best wishes
Debbie
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Debbie
Thanks very much for your helpful comments. I match 36/37 with my contact. My surname, Mellanby, goes back at least to the mid-1600s in the Teesside area. The Allen name is also around in that area and there is even an Allen/Mellanby marriage, showing that the families were known to each other. My matches, two cousins, live in the US and have no knowledge of any English ancestry so it would be nice to firm up on the circumstantial evidence that their origins may lie in NE England. I will give serious thought to setting up a geographical project.
Yes, I have had the deep clade tests done and have no mutations downstream of that defining Haplogroup I2. I have been in touch with the Rootsweb discussion groups but at present I feel I need to learn a lot more about the whole subject of DNA before perhaps getting involved with Haplogroup projects. I am broadly familiar with FTDNA and ISOGG and will have a look at the other sites you mention.
I really appreciate your help.
John
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John, Have you read "The Origins of the British" by Phillip Openheimer? If not then I think you will find it useful regarding historic DNA origins.
Sumar, Since nobody else seems to have said it then I will. The only way that a woman can get at her paternal DNA is to have a direct male descendant in the paternal line tested, i.e. brother, uncle etc. etc.
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John
If you do consider setting up a geographical project let me know if you want any help. The Americans do tend to be over-represented in the databases, but that will all change in time as more people in the UK understand how it all works, and realise how useful DNA testing can be. It gets very exciting once you start getting matches!
It's actually quite difficult to find out about all the haplogroups as the science is moving at such a fast rate with new SNPs being discovered all the time. All the books are now very out of date. The Oppenheimer book was published before a lot of the new SNPs were discovered such as P312 and U106 which now subdivide R1b1b2, and there are many other new SNPs downstream of P312 and U106. If you want to keep up with the latest developments in a haplogroup you really need to belong to the appropriate project and the associated mailing list.
I see you've set up a Mellanby project at Family Tree DNA but you don't seem to have added your own results to the project. You need to go to your FTDNA personal page and click on Join Projects and then add yourself to your own project. Have you considered registering your surname with the Guild of One-Name Studies:
http://www.one-name.org/index.html
A lot of our members are now running DNA projects and we can offer support.
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Thanks Debbie and Redroger for recommending the Oppenheimer book which I haven't read but I've browsed it in a bookshop. I have read the book by Smolenyak (another name variant there!) which is a good basic intro to DNA for genealogy.
I know the Mellanby surname project isn't set up properly yet. I was distracted from it shortly after I started it but I'll get back to it soon.
It didn't occur to me that the GOONS might help with DNA so I will look into that. Years ago I was put off that organisation by the the requirement, as I understand it, that members had to commit to a one-name-study as defined by GOONS. I just like to do my own thing!
Thanks for the help once again.
John
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Another book you might enjoy is "The Journey of Man" by Spencer Wells which is much more readable than the Oppenheimer book.
You can pretty well do your own thing in GOONS. The only commitment is to answer every enquiry. You have to be working towards collecting all references to a surname worldwide but at your own pace. You can also join without registering a surname and just benefit from the expertise of the other members. The Guild mailing list is full of very knowledgeable people. The vast majority of UK-based DNA projects are run by Guild members (they're nearly all at Family Tree DNA too!).
Debbie
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Perhaps it's me, but I found Oppenheimers book to be an easy and enjoyable read. Take the points about it being rendered obsolete by ongoing reasearch, but that's generally the case with science.