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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Sutherland => Topic started by: Shalena on Monday 28 April 08 21:44 BST (UK)
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Some help would be much appreciated...we have two family lines that seem to have originated in the Sutherland area, most of which we have little or no details about apart from our direct line of descent when they inter marry.
If there is anyone who links into these lines or who can help fill in some of the missing details we would love to hear from you.
It would be especially helpful, although unlikely given the little information and early dates, if anyone could find any details about William and Erick(a?) + Alexander and Janet.
The lines as we know them are listed below. Many thanks, Shalena.
William Munro born c1780 -m- Erick(a?) MacKay (no details known)
Sutherland Sutherland
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Anne Munro born 8th Jul 1809 --------------Murdoch Munro born 20th Aug 1811
Creich, Sutherland Creich, Sutherland. (no details known)
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John Murray born c 1811
Creich. l
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William Murray born 13th Jul 1837
Creich. (This is the only known child we have details of)
He is the one who inter-marries with Jane Campbell in the next family line below.
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Alexander MacIntosh born c 1720 -m- Janet MacKay born c 1700's
Dornoch, Sutherland. Dornoch, Sutherland. (no details known)
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Margaret MacIntosh born c 1750's ---------Alexander MacIntosh born c 1750's
Dornoch. Dornoch. (no further details known)
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(m)
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Robert Campbell born c 1754 (no further details known)
Dornoch. l
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l
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Alexander Campbell born 15th Feb 1788, Dornoch. (no other details known)
William Campbell born 28th March 1790, Dornoch.
Married to Ann Ross (no details known)------------------------------------------------------------
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James Campbell born c 1792, Dornoch. (no details known) l
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George Campbell born c 1793, Dornoch. (no details known) l
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Ann Campbell born c 1795, Dornoch. (no details known) l
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Margaret Campbell born c 1798, Dornoch. (no details known)
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Jan(n)et Campbell born c 1800, Dornoch. (no details known) l
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Isobel Campbell born c 1813, Dornoch. (no details known)
David Campbell born c 1815, Dornoch. (no details known)
Hugh Campbell born c 1828, Dornoch. (no details known)
Jane (Jean) Campbell born 4th Nov 1831, Dornoch. She married William Murray from the
previous family above.
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I found these children born to John Murray and Anne Munro
William Murray b 13/07/1834 Creich Sutherland
Anne Murray b 10/04/1836 Creich Sutherland
Eric Murray b 03/05/1838 Creich Sutherland
Donald Murray b 19/12/1840 Creich Sutherland
Walter Murray b 07/03/1843 Creich Sutherland
Jannet Murray b 06/07/1846 Dornoch Sutherland
hope this helps a bit
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Thank-you for this information firthview...it does look promising.
Would you mind letting me know where you found this information from and if there are any documents we can look for/send off for to verify it for our records?
Shalena
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Hi Shalena I got it from IGI do you use this site regards Firthview
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Hello Firthview (do you really have a Firth view? :) )
Thanks for replying.....I haven't used IGI much personally as my brother and his wife usually do that side of the family research, but I will pass on the information to him and when he can find a spare moment he can look it up and get any further details.
Having so many family lines in Scotland we haven't managed to locate as many as we would have liked yet....but we will persevere!
Regards, Shalena
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Yes i really do have a Firth view,and its beautiful,i could sit and look out my window all day.If you need any help with your Anscestors just get back to me
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Oh lucky you! Think I would be inclined to want to sit and gaze out all day too.
Thanks for your kind offer....I may well take you up on that. ;D Not tonight though as I have to be up early in the morning and time is marching on so I had better be off.
Until another day when I have more time......thank-you and have a good-night,
Shalena.
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Hi there,
I'm the three greats grandson of John MURRAY and Ann MURRAY through their son Walter (born 7 March 1843). Both Walter and his brother Donald came to New Zealand in the 1860s where they were sheep farmers near Dunback, Otago. Walter married Margaret McKAY and died 1 March 1906. They had seven sons and one daughter. Donald never married.
Through the research of a relative (not personally checked) I have Walter and Donald's other siblings' names as William, Ann, Eric, Margaret, Jane, and Isabel (Bell). Ann MUNRO was from Lonemore. John was the son of Alexander MURRAY of Ardshave (c.1764-1847) and Margaret MATHIESON of Balvraid. They had five children that I know of.
Regards,
David Murray
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Hello David,
Thank-you for contacting me and passing on this information. It looks very intriguing.
Should 'your' John Murray and Ann(e) Munro be the same people as 'our' John and Anne Murray then
we should have a family link as we are descended from one of Walters' older siblings, William, through his son William Campbell. From the date of Williams birth (13th July 1836, in Creich), it would appear that he was nearly 7 years older than Walter. Do you know the dates of the other siblings births/baptisms? We knew nothing of them but supposed that they may (if there were any) have emigrated to another country as many did at that time.
If you would care to send me a personal message through Roots, then I can pass on some other information you may not have. If your not sure about how to do this, then let me know on here and I will contact you again.
Many thanks, Shalena.
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Good to hear from you Shalena,
The dates I have are:
William b 13 July 1834
Ann b 10 Apr 1836
Eric b 9 Dec 1840
Donald b 9 Dec 1840
Walter b 7 Mar 1843
Margaret chr 1846
Jane chr 1848
Isabel chr 1854
I also have an image from the 1851 census, Corrnacusach??, Parish of Creich, which lists:
John Murray, head (a weaver)
Ann Murray, wife
William Murray, son, 17, a scholar
Donald Murray, son, 10, a scholar
Walter Murray, son, 7, a scholar
Margaret Murray, daughter
Jane Murray, daughter
All listed as born in Creich.
I don't know how to post a private message but would be happy to if you can give instructions. I can pass the other names and dates I have and also put you in contact with Adair, the relative who did most of the early research.
Kind regards,
David :)
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That place name (probably the croft/household name?) I now think is Corrnacurach. D.
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Hi David,
Got caught up with a couple of things, sorry for the delay in replying to you.
To send a personal message all you have to do is click on the green scroll beside the small 'baby' picture on the left of the messages on screen. If you try that I will pick up your message and we can swap e-mail addresses and information.
If you have any difficulties and I don't hear from you within 10 minutes then I will message you.
Good luck! Shalena.
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Hello David and Shalena,
I have read this thread with interest and can't help wondering if a great grandparent detailed below might link into the family you are discussing somehow.
Murdoch MURRAY came from Dornoch, Sutherland, Scotland to Otago New Zealand prior to 1873. He was a ploughman. he married Margaret FLETCHER in Dunedin in 1873 and they lived at or near Milton. I believe his birthdate to be about 1845.
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Gill
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Hello Gill,
Thanks for contacting us with your question about Murdoch Murray.
I had a look through our lines to double check, but I am afraid I cannot find any Murdoch Murray. The name (Murdoch) does crop up a couple of times, but with other surnames as they married into our lines.
There is a small possibility that he was a sibling born between Walter Murray 1843 and Margaret Murray chr: 1846 ( both Creich )that we know nothing of......especially as Walter and his brother did also go to New Zealand ( Dunback ) in 1864....but sadly I can offer no more than that.
Do you have Murdoch's parents names, or any other details from either his family or his emigration to N.Z. that may help?
Best Wishes,
Shalena
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Hi Shalena,
I have just started looking for the links to Scotland and do not have any more information than I gave. I think I wil have to get his death certificate to try and find his parents and possible place of birth. I see Dornoch is a long way from Criech so a link is unlikely. Thanks for your help.
Best wishes
Gill
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Hi Gill,
Good luck with your search. I think a close link is unlikely, but it's funny how these things tie up sometimes. I haven't come across Murdoch Murray but he may be a cousin of Walter. I doubt he was a sibling. Walter's parents John MURRAY and Ann MUNRO were married at Dornoch. I'm not quite sure of the geographical boundary of the Creich parish. The population of Sutherland was only 20,000 or so, so I presume all of the Sutherland Murrays link up somehow!
Best,
David
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Good morning Gill,
It looks like you have some more digging to do to see if you can locate Murdoch's family!
Finding his death certificate will be a start, along with any information you may be able to get concerning his travel from Scotland to New Zealand.
Locating Scottish lines can be problematic as many had the same names (both christian and surnames), and due to loss of paperwork during the troubles and the mass movement of the people because of the fighting and clearances, lots have been 'lost' and need some work to find (if you ever do!). My particular line has several that we just can't find out about further than we have done already.
I wish you luck with your searching Gill, and if you get stuck there are a lot of people here that may be able to be of assistance to you if you post a query. Please let us know if you find out a link anywhere that we know nothing of, or if you have been successful in locating his family.
Good Luck! Shalena
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Hello Shalena,
I am very interested in your FORBES family of MOULIN in Perthshire, Scotland. One of my FORBES from there married a ROSS and lived in Edderton, Ross and Cromarty. I also have connections to several Buxted, Sussex families.
Gaye in New Zealand
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Hello Gaye,
I apologise for taking so long to reply. I have checked through the information that I have for the Forbes family line, and cannot find any link to a marriage to a Ross. So saying, we have two links with the name Forbes. One from Logierait (Alexander) who married a Reid some time in the early 1800's and had 6 known children between 1814 and 1829. Then there was an Elizabeth Forbes (a relative of Alexander?), who married into the Cunnison family back in c1780's, with a descendant of theirs marrying another Forbes in 1864.
Apart from some dates/places of birth, we know nothing about the majority of these lines...apart from the one that links to us eventually. So although I have no knowledge of a Ross marriage, that is not to say there wasn't one from 'our lot'.
As for the Buxted area connections. As far as we know, that area comes into play from about 1720 (ish) when we have a family named Mew noted as living there from the early 1700's until around the early to mid 1800's when they started to scatter across the Sussex area. We have a fair few of the names that inter-married with this line, so if you want to pass on any that you know of (and any dates), I will have a look to see if there is any connection there for you.
Hope I have been helpful, and thank-you for contacting me.
Best wishes, Shalena
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Hi there Gaye; Just noticed you have an interest in the Lugsdin family of Hunts & Australia. There is a topic on the Bedfordshire page regarding this family that comes from Little Staughton (nearly in Hunts) that has links to Australia.
If it's of interest to you then please come & join in.
cheers John
I've done this here - as PM is not happenning as you've not done many postings.
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Hello GillianM,
I am interested in Margaret FLETCHER who married Murdoch MURRAY. I am from the small Scottish clan FLETCHER, so small that almost all Scottish FLETCHERs can be connected together. Wondering if you can tell me any more about Margaret? I have seen somewhere that she was from Ross-shire in Scotland. Thanks!
Mary Fletcher Harris
Canada
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Hi Mary,
Murdoch Murray and Margaret Fletcher are my husbands great grandparents!! We don't know much about the Fletcher line but found out alot about the Murray's from Chris of the Sutherland website. I am in a hurry (haing breakfast and going to work) right now but will send you what I have for Margaret tonight. I woud love to share informaiton with you.
Regards
Gill :)
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The Margaret Campbell, born 1798, and daughter of Robert Campbell and Margaret MacIntosh, appears to be the Margaret Campbell who married Donald Murray of Reachar in 1819. He was son of William Murray and Grace Grant. Donald and Margaret together with their young children emigrated to Pictou in 1831 or 1832 and settled at Loganville, Pictou County, Nova Scotia. Margaret died in 1845 of lockjaw. There are numerous descendents of this family in Canada and Northeastern United States.
There was a distant connection betweem Margaret with the Campbell's of Rogart Parish.
Donald Murray's sister, Janet, came to Nova Scotia in 1812. She was married to Alexander MacIntosh of Dornoch parish.
Glen in Nova Scotia
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Thank-you for your message Glen.
I have read it and will be contacting you via personal message.
Regards, Shalena
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Regarding Walter Murray, child of John Murray and Anne Munro.
Walter sailed on the ship British Empire from England to New Zealand in 1864. He met Margaret McKay from Halkirk, Caithness, while on board and they were married in Dunedin's Knox Church in 1866 Walter was 22 years old and Margaret 30 . They moved to Dunback about one and a half hours journey North West from Dunedin by todays travelling. Dunedin is in Otago, a province in the South Island. Walter farmed 930 acres at Dunback. They had 7 children. Six boys and one girl.
I have more information including spouses and children if you are interested.
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Hello moodyblues,
Sorry for the delay in responding to your message.
Having been contacted by David Murray, (a fellow New Zealander living in the Dunedin area who is a descendant of the Murray's too), a while ago, I was passed on details, and a few photographs, regarding the brothers, including Walter, who emigrated there from Scotland/England. However, you may be able to add even more flesh to the bones, (so to speak!), so if you wish to contact me again I will be pleased to hear from you.
How are you related to this Murray line?
Look forward to hearing from you...
Shalena
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Hello,
My Great Grandmother Catherine McDonald (neeMckay) is Margaret Murray's (nee Mckay) sister.
You can email me at *. I would love some photos, and I have some photos and information about the family. You may also have this however. I have photos that I cannot identify so any photos you may have would help. David Murray's email would be great as well. Thanks for the reply.
regards
Ann
Moderator comment - email address deleted. Please use the personal message system as noted in your post above[/blue]
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Good-evening Ann,
Just caught your return message when on my way to bed...it is late evening over here in the UK where I am in case you are in NZ... and I have to be up early in the morning for an appointment. :)
Hope you don't mind holding on for a while longer before I respond fully...promise I will be in touch as soon as I am able. Till then, please don't add your e-mail address on any post, (they will not be shown), I can send you a personal message with my personal e-mail if you wish to converse that way.
'Till later,
Regards, Shalena
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Thanks for this. I am on night shift again tonight and will be on line. How do you use the personal message system? This is the first time I have used this forum.
Cheers
Ann
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Good-evening Ann,
First things first, to use the personal message system all you need to do is click on the small green scroll located on the left hand side, underneath the persons name you wish to talk to more privately. It is right next to the baby's face. This will take you to a page where you can securely write out more personal information/contact details, going straight to their personal e-mail box. They, in turn, can contact you privately using your own e-mail details.
Secondly, the prints of the photos that were uploaded to me are of:
1: Walter Murray, Margaret Murray and their eldest son John (as a baby).
2: Walter and Margaret sitting together. Probably a bit older.
3: Their daughter Margaret Ann Murray as a young girl.
4: An 'In Memorandum' card for 2nd son Donald (known as Dan) husband of Elizabeth that has a small photo, his details, a poem and is edged in flowers.
5: A photo of Andrew Murray as a young man.
6: A photo of William Andrew Murray (known as WA) as a young man.
7: A studio pose showing two son's, Bruce and Russell, of WA & wife Mary Jane (with lovely long ringlets and a dog beside them!).
8: A wedding photo of Bruce Murray (see above) and wife Eva Murray in 1920.
9: A group photo (beside a great old car they called 'Captain Bold!) of John Murray (son of Walter) & wife Mary; Their daughters Nessie & Vera; and Walter A. Murray & wife Mary Jane. There are a couple of others but I am not sure who they are.
I did know about their emigrating on the British Empire and his running the farm 'Dunrobin'. Also that Donald farmed around 550 acres too. Walter was active in getting the local school established, and was most likely a Gaelic speaker as he was the founding member of a small gaelic society. In later years he was caught stealing sheep from a vast farm nearby and was given a 9 month prison sentence in 1897. His son William Andrew worked on the railways and became a station master.
If you would like to try contacting David Murray, go back to page 2 (I think!), on this site and you will see where we have chatted, then send him a personal e-mail using his green scroll.
Another point...I have that Walter had 8 children:
John b 1868; Donald b 1870; Alexander McKay (birth not known but going by the others maybe 1871?); Walter Finlay b 1872; William Andrew b 24 April 1874; David Burnett b 1876; Andrew b circa 1877 & Margaret Ann b 1878. There is a pretty detailed list of the Murray family after arriving in New Zealand I have...but I suppose nothing is perfect, and it is too long to note here. I know the most about the line that leads to David...and, of course, the line that has decended from the brother that stayed in Scotland...and eventually leads to me.
Hope this has helped a little. I will contact you by pm and let you know my e-mail if you have anything more private to say...or just want a chat. :D
Best wishes,
Shalena
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Thanks for the info and the details about the personal message.
A researcher in Scotland uncovered details from Edinburgh about the Mckays.
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Your welcome Ann.
Goodness, there is certainly a touch of family likeness between your photo of Catherine and her sister Margaret. You will probably see this for yourself when the copies David sends reaches you.
We have a couple of female McKay's (MacKay's) that married into our lines...
An Erick (a?) MacKay married 'our' William Munro b circa 1788, Sutherland, (more than likely Creich), &
a Janet MacKay married 'our' Alexander MacIntosh b circa 1720's in Dornoch.
There are quite a few Scottish names found in our lines!
Hope you enjoy using this site again in the future, Ann. There are some very knowledgeable people here that can help you out if you are stuck. You can always put up an enquiry and ask for assistance from around the world.
Regards,
Shalena