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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: familytreesearch on Friday 25 April 08 04:48 BST (UK)
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Just wondering if anyone can help me find a relative born in Russia?
My GG Grandmother, Annie Clark (nee Hodgson) was born in 1871 in Russia (as listed in family records and the 1901 census).
In the census she is listed as a 'British Subject' so I am thinking that she had been through some sort of process to be naturalised.
At some point she married my GG Grandfather, John Clark, however I am unable to find any records of the marriage. I do know that they had 5 children born from abt 1890 to 1905, and have further information on this.
Given this info I'm guessing that she immigrated between 1871 and 1890 but am unsure how to search for any relevant records...
With thanks in advance for any help, advice, hints or tips!
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Hi
As I understand it - it's probably the opposite - she was very possibly a "military" child (Army, or perhaps Naval) and was born in the country in which her British father was stationed at the time. It was common for Military men to have their wives and children along with them. This scenario makes Annie a "British Subject" by birthright (but born on foreign soil) and therefore she neither immigrated as a foreigner to England nor had to be Naturalised as English - when her Military father returned home, so simply did his wife and child(ren).
You say you have her on the 1901? Do you have them on the 1891?
Cheers
AMBLY
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oh... I didn't know this - great info!
I do have her in the 1901 census, but have not had any luck with census records further back than this.
In the 1901 census it "husband absent" so I have no further info on her husband other than the knowledge that his name was John. At this time 4 of their 5 children had been born (Nancy 1901, Margery abt 1892, John 1896, Kate), but only two are listed as in the family home so this adds to the mystery on their location.
I know Annie's mothers name was Joan but I don't have her father's name to search military records...
Do you have any ideas on where I could look?
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Hi
I'm just having a wee look now at an 1891 family in London - I think it's them - but the father is named as Robert (he is Scots)....they have a daughter 2 weeks old , named Marjorie......
This birth on FREEBMD - I bet is the daughter
Births Jun 1891 - Edmonton - 31, Vol pg 342
Marjorie Joan CLARK
Hang on a tick!!
Cheers
AMBLY
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excellent!
I did find an Annie Clark married to Robert Clark in Middlesex in the 1891 census... perhaps this is them???
I know his father was a Presbytarian minister in Scotland so he may well have been born there - its sounding promising!
I'll get birth certs when we are a little more certain...
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I also have Marjorie(Margery)'s marriage record - she married William Sparks in 1918 (1a, 1219) and her name was listed as Margery JL Clark so seems to be aligning somewhat too... ;D
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Hi
Yes, I think it may be them!
1891: 15 Varlry Road, Tottenham, Middlesex
Head: Robert CLARK 38. at Checkbook Manufactory , b Dumfries
Wife: Annie CLARK 26, b Russia British Subject
Dau: Marjorie CLARK 2 weeks, b London
Nurse: ELiza CONNOR 42, b Buckley, North Wales
RG12 / Piece: 1072 / Folio 121 / Page 25
(Tottenham fell into the Edmonton registration District)
Now in 1901, your Annie was aged 30, listed as wife with "husband absent" and in Wanstead, Essex with son John age 5 and Nancy age 1, and a number of servants...
Will see if I can spot Robert and Marjorie in 1901 - maybe he had a middle name of John.....
cheers
AMBLY
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Think I've had some luck with the 1881 census :) - but it doesn't help me understand why all the children were born in Russia... ??? Doesn't seem to be a link to the military...
Its is only circumstantial but its another potential lead....
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18 Princes St
North Meols, Lancs
RG11/3751 F14 P 22
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That does look promising! ;D
Perhaps the link to Russia was enterprise, not military....
There is at least one other child - and he is on the IGI as a submited record
Christopher Alfred HODSON born 1852 Moscow, died 1921
Parents: James HODSON and Joan McGILL
He (Christopher) is married and in Farnsworth in 1881.
Hmm - if this is your Annie;s family - Joan is a relatively uncommon name, and often associated with Scotland in those times - seems a big coincidence that she married a man whose mother was also named Joan and possibly scottish - Stranger things have happened, though I guess!
cheers
AMBLY
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Hi
Have you got access to An**cest**ry?
Someone has a tree on there, with those HODSON's on it.
And it looks like yours.
The tree has the daughter Annie married to Robert CLARK and their children as:
Jack, Kitty, Margot, Nancye and Robin
It doesn't have any marrriage date, and no parent or any BMD details for Robert.
cheers
AMBLY
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Unfortunately not! :'(
...this is my family Nancye is my Great Grandmother and that is her siblings! :D
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I've just popped something up on a message board - hopefully I can make a connection with someone!
That was a fantastic find! :D
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Hi All,
just a thought,
I wonder if it was Prussia and not Russia, although appearing so often, it may well be correct.
The reason for this thought, is that there were a at least two topics on RootsChat about textile workers going to PRUSSIA, because the british textile industry was more advanced than Germany's.
(no time to look now but maybe a RootsChat search for textile schlesien or textile germany might find them.
Topic: CASSIDY emigrated to Germany
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,280109.0.html
Topic: Batley woollen workers, Germany 1880s
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,34233.0.html
But whether Russia or Prussia, the reason might be the same.
This thought came to me on seeing AMBLY's idea
Perhaps the link to Russia was enterprise, not military....
and familytreeresearch's item
Retired Cotton Spinner Living On Dividends & Interest
just a thought
Bob
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Suspect that the family were in Russia (perhaps Moscow?) and that the father had some connection to linen/textile industry. Know of other British families who also lived in Russia connected to linen trade but left Russia between 1900 and 1917.
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Hi
I have found more infomation - part of it dated approx 1920 written I think by James' son Christopher Alfred
It says the HODSONs got their cotton manufacturing experiences at Townhead Mills in Rochdale.
So did a John KONSHIN a rich Russian gentleman who became he first man to start cotton manufacturing in the Moscow district, and it was through him that the Hodsons went out to Russia.
There is extensive info. [
It is clearly your Nancye's line
I will PM you
Cheers
AMBLY
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Part of what I was able to find, said the James HODSON family, returned to England in 1870.
It also said, the eldest son (Christopher) Alfred, stayed behind in Russia at that time and was employed there by Robert ClARK, the (future) husband of Annie. Still unable to find any dates or bigraphy on Robert himself....
.......So, if that's right, since Annie was only abt 5 or 6 in 1870, one would think her husband must have been a good deal older than she. Yet the husband in the 1891 Census which appears to be them, has Robert as only 12 years older than Annie; at that age, he would have been abt 18 in 1870 and abt the same age or even younger than Christopher Alfred.....??
This is the HODSON's in 1870:
5 Tabot Street, North Meols, Lancashire
Head: James HODSON 42, Annuitant, b Rochdale Lancs
Wife: Johanna HODSON 40, b Glasgow Scotland
Children: All born: Russia - British Subjects
Dau: Victoria 15,
Dau: Laura 13,
Son: James E 11, Scholar,
Dau: Annie 6,
Son: Frederick R 3,
Servant: Alice SUMMER (or SUMNER) 24, General Domestic Servant, b Southport Lancs
RG10 / Piece: 3875 / Folio: 16 / pg25
cheers
AMBLY
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Hello
Maybe the Robert Clark that Christopher Alfred ... worked for was a senior whom had a son Robert that she married.
There is this Robert born Dumfries with father Robert, age a little off, but could be a possibility with senario above:
Scotland 1861 Census, CSSCT1861_143, Reg #: 821, Reg Dist: Dumfries, Civil Parish: Dumfries, St. Michael
Household no. 64
Address: Flosh
Robert son born about 1851 Dumfries scholar
Father: Robert 48 born Dumfries labourer
Mother: Hannah 48 born Wigton, England
Siblings: Janet 29, Ellen 17, William 12, John 8
Also in household are grandchildren: Jean McGowan 10, Hannah Milbourne 2, John Milbourne 3 months, Janet Mitchell 5, Joseph Robson, David Smith 2
Anyway just a thought.
Linda
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Wow! :o
I am completely overwhelmed by the help I am getting on this!
I am still trying to get my head around it all...
With a huge amount of help from Ambly - I've found links on Annie's side back to the late 1600's - incredible!
Robert still seems somewhat elusive...
Linda - this is excellent info from the Scotland census, both the date and the location seem to align. Were there many Robert Clark's born in/around Dumfries in the early 1850's? I'd like to think this was him, but with such a common name, I am careful not to jump to conclusions! :)
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Oh and another thought re: Robert Clark...
My family records do have his name as John (...haven't managed to make the connection as to why :-\) as it seems fairly clear that his name was Robert...
Also, my records do state that his father was a Presbytarian minister in Scotland at some point, whereas this census record has Labourer.
...perhaps there could have been more than one Robert Clark born in Dumfries in the early 1850's??
...perhaps he changed occupation??
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Hi all
I agree, the scenario could well be that, Linda ;D It seems the family were deeply involved in all manner of Russian business.
But pondering on Annie's huband, I now think the Robert for whom Alfred worked was very possibly his Uncle Robert McGILL.....Joan/Joanna McGILL (Annie's mother) apparently had 2 brothers also out in Russia at the same time and they all worked together in varying capacities.
In any case - the marriage of Annie and Robert is on FREEBMD - so that may eventually sort out his age and his parents:
Jun Qtr 1890 - Ormskirk RD - 8b - 1130
Robert CLARK and Annie HODSON (on the same page)
cheers
AMBLY