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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: liverpool annie on Thursday 24 April 08 13:46 BST (UK)
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With just a few hours left to the 25th April ....... the day the Gallipoli landing is commemorated
May we always remember the sacrifices these men made ( on all sides ) and pray they did not die in vain. It is up to us, the living and descendents of these soldiers, to make sure their deaths are remembered, and the reason for their deaths. Some made it home and died years later, but still carried the scars of war.
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well said Annie, tomorrow, as the sun breaks into the first light of dawn over "my" Essex countryside my thoughts will be turned to those ANZAC's that landed at ANZAC Cove and also to those British and French forces that were at Cape Helles. As you have rightly said it is up to us all to keep their memory alive, and if it means me lifting my sorry carcass out of my pit to walk to our war memorial to lay a small cross of remembrance at dawn on the 25th, then it is but a small price that I pay for their large one.
old rowley
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Hi Annie & O R
My grandfather & brother were in France, but not Gallipoli. My father & his brother served in WWII. Much remembrance in my family on Anzac Day, but I do sometimes wonder do we glorify war by this - what we really want is to prevent it. I have NO memory of my grandfather's generation ever discussing the war. My father talked about it quite a lot in the last year of his life, but rarely before that.
You did remind me of why I couldn't get into the Archives for a War Service record this evening. Obviously much activity - I kept getting a too busy message
Trish
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It's the death of thousands and thousands of soldiers I'll remember tomorrow - not the war !
I know it's Anzac Day but many British troops died also that day .......
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300883.0.html
Annie
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In anticipation of day break tomorrow, I'm remembering my g.g. Uncle; Pte John HOGG (SMITH) 10/534 7th Wellington Regiment, NZEF.
Until recently it seems he was forgotten about, certainly by my family. He was wounded on 29th April 1915 after arriving at Gallipoli on the 25th. He died from his wounds on 6th May.
*Not Forgotten*
Tx
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A song to commemorate the slain and the injured...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3pU7rsim3E
meles
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Remembering a brother who as a Lancaster pilot died in the March 1944 Nuremberg Raid, aged 20 and 2 months.
Also a father who survived both Gallipoli and France.
We are indebted to men such as these for our liberty and freedom of speech.
charlotte
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To remember those who sacrificed to keep us free and safe from oppression is not glorifying war. It is being thankful for what has been done for us.
My brother , a Lancaster pilot, was killed over Germany in 1944, aged 20 years and 2 months.
My father survived Gallipoli and France.
I remember them daily and on Anzac Day thank them and the many others like them for what they did for us all.
charlotte
Moderator comment: topics merged
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No I don't think it is glorifying war when we remember those that have fallen. It is the fact that I can do this that brings it home to me the sacrifice that many have given in the past, and are still doing, which enables me to pay my respects to them. Last year I was honoured to be asked to be part of the march pass at the cenotaph in Whitehall. I have never served in the armed force's nor had I any wish to do so when I was growing up but went with an open mind for what the day held. The group that I was with were all, except one, of my age group and generation and are children of ex prisoners of war. All of us were there to honour our fathers, and others, memories I do not think that any one of us "marched" to glorify any part of the war. The one person who was not of my age group was himself an ex-pow and to be honest I felt humble just being in his presence. Those men, and women, who served in all the branches of the armed services found no "glory" in warfare and to be honest I have yet to find anyone who thinks that way. So tomorrow when I lay my small remembrance cross I will remember ANZAC's from both world war's from Pte Frank Bent of the 2nd Australian Brigade who fought at Gallipoli (who funnily enough I am just reading about in Max Arthur's excellent book "forgotten voices of the Great War") to Weary Dunlop MS, FRCS of the 2nd AIF in the 2nd ww.
old rowley
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With just a few hours left to the 25th April ....... the day the Gallipoli landing is commemorated
May we always remember the sacrifices these men made ( on all sides ) and pray they did not die in vain. It is up to us, the living and descendents of these soldiers, to make sure their deaths are remembered, and the reason for their deaths. Some made it home and died years later, but still carried the scars of war.
Well spoken Annie
Can I add my remembrance here to ALL those who died throughout the peninsula and my own personal one for one of my Grandfather's brother's
Frederick Grimes TF/3433, 2nd/4th Bn., Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment)who was killed on 16 August 1915 aged just 17.
Remembered with Honour
Helles Memorial
Crystal :D
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Ooooh Sorry, I forgot to resize and don't know how to now posted ???
Moderator comment: resized for you. :)
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To all who will be taking part in services to rebember Anzac day my thoughts are with you tomorrow ( 25th April ). I doubt I will be up at dawn unless the baby has other ideas but I will have my shotgun breakfast at about 9:30am (GMT) after the children have gone to school
Moderator comment: topics merged
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Link to UK services tomorrow
http://www.gallipoli-association.org/contentpage.asp?pageid=12
Spring
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I'm sorry,but it was a tragic waste of life.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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I'm sorry,but it was a tragic waste of life.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
Yes it was, as are all wars...
But...we can look back at mistakes that were made at the time and see where they were made....This was an attempt to break the central powers, but amphibious warfare was a new art. Even at Dieppe in 1942 where many Canadians were lost two years prior to D-Day, lessons were learned that led the way to the success of D-Day.
The landings on the Dardanelles and the proposed Naval breakthrough didn't work. If they had done...who knows...??
The entire war was a huge learning curve, and the British army of 1918 bore no resemblance to the tiny professional army that left these shores in 1914. The tactics of 1918 would be recognised by any level of military commander and indeed used by them today
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Remembering..."Old" Bill from, I believe, one of the New South Wales regiments from Gallipoli and France 1918. I was lucky enough and privileged to do a Scout Bob-A-Job many years ago which turned into a Saturday job mowing his lawn until he had to move house.
Also remembering
- Gt Uncle Herbert Harold Bezant, 251344 Corporal in the Essex Regiment died in Palestine 12 June 1917. Buried in the Cairo CWGC Cemetery.
- Mum's cousin Walter Sydney Harvison, no 36 12th Australian Light Horse. 4 months at Gallipoli and nearly three years in Palestine onlyto get malaria and die 8 days before the end of the war.
but mostly thinking about the people serving today and hoping they get back home safe and well.
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My grandfather and his brother were both at Gallipoli - I think the disentery which caused my gf to be shipped out may be one the reasons I'm here today (my father was yet to be sired!).
I always used to think of Gallipoli and Suvla Bay in particular (where my gf was) as an ANZAC "show". but know now there we far more Brits fighting and dying there and I think that's often forgotten and we shouldn't forget those lions led by donkeys - which I really think was the case in that theatre.
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My grandfather and his brother were both at Gallipoli - I think the disentery which caused my gf to be shipped out may be one the reasons I'm here today (my father was yet to be sired!).
I always used to think of Gallipoli and Suvla Bay in particular (where my gf was) as an ANZAC "show". but know now there we far more Brits fighting and dying there and I think that's often forgotten and we shouldn't forget those lions led by donkeys - which I really think was the case in that theatre.
Hi scottiedog,
As an Australian I'm probably not allowed to say this but I tend to agree that it has been "hijacked" for want of a better word. You only have to read Liverpool Annie's original post on another thread ro get some idea of how badly the British suffered
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300883.0.html
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My grandfather and his brother were both at Gallipoli - I think the disentery which caused my gf to be shipped out may be one the reasons I'm here today (my father was yet to be sired!).
I always used to think of Gallipoli and Suvla Bay in particular (where my gf was) as an ANZAC "show". but know now there we far more Brits fighting and dying there and I think that's often forgotten and we shouldn't forget those lions led by donkeys - which I really think was the case in that theatre.
I agree with all there, apart from the phrase I have highlighted...I have written on this previously on another thread...This was a political statement originated by Lloyd George for his own means, and perpetuated by Alan Clarke in the 1960s with his book of the same name...
May I commend Mud Blood and Poppycock by Gordon Corrigan?
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Before this thread any more off topic, I've been trying to find my photo of the memorial Liverpool Annie quoted:
There is a Memorial commemorating the loss of thousands of soldiers in Gallipoli.
"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives… you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country.
Therefore rest in peace.
There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets where they lie side by side here in this country of ours…
You the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries, wipe away your tears.
Your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace.
Having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."
Mustafa Kemal
but since I reorganised everything recently, I can't find it so I'll leave you with the "Daughter of LonePine" which is (cough) supposedly grown from seeds of the original pine tree standing on the site of one of the costliest battles of the campaign....
Image Resized
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This one?
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Or this one?
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A search you may be interested in following on the Australian board:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=300953.new#new
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An interesting article:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23592936-5007146,00.html
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A song to commemorate the slain and the injured...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3pU7rsim3E
meles
Hi Meles
I have this song on my C&W cds (should I admit to having such a CD) - I cry always when it plays - I well realise why we have days of remembrance - but this song should be compulsory listening for those who celebrate war. I think it was written in the Vietnam era.
And thank you for the link Ruskie - aptly entitled "Lest we forget the futility of war"
I have a letter written by my great grandfather - explaining, that like everyone else, he gave a child to the great war (his oldest, after whom my mother is named). It was repeated in the next generation. May my child's generation have the courage to find the alternatives. We didn't seem to manage it. If celebrating a day of remembrance helps to achieve this - we shall all eventually rest in peace.
Trish
Edit: I didn't realise we'd moved outside of the Oz board - I thought I was talking about Anzac day - which does truly relate to Australia & New Zealand - not impressed with the merge
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Heroes of Gallipoli film from Auckland Museum website. Original rare film taken at Gallipoli
http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/127/anzac-day/#heroes
Then trawl the Cenotaph database to find your Kiwi soldier ancestors
http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/?t=130
Cheers
Sarnda
www.sarndra.com
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Of course all Australians should realize that there were others, Brits and French, and others, at Gallipolli. (And some English know nothing of the campaign, http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,297789.15.html). But the Brits have and had been fighting wars for hundreds of years, but this was the first action Australians, as a Unified Nation (and with such a small population), were engaged in, albeit British citizens, not Australian. Similarly the Hellfire Pass in Thailand is an Australian War Memorial (similar in psyche to eg Andersonville in USA), but as such should not be taken to exclude the UK and Netherland, and other, prisoners.
It is not Glorifying war to remember on this Remembrance Friday those who died, and suffered, horribly. From so many Nations. (Obviously this includes New Zealanders.)
To put it simply it is abhorent to suggest that yesterday's Commenorative Remembrance Service to the Crews of the HMAS Sydney (and HKS Kormoran), and the principal, the Prime Minister of Australia Kevin Rudd, were Glorifying war.
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(Trish, I think this is where Liverpool Annie originally started the thread called Gallipoli, and another thread or two were later merged with hers)
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Of course Gallipoli was a defining moment in nationhood for Australia and New Zealand, which is why Anzac Day is so important to both countries.
After coming home from the mid-morning march and service, I watched, as I always do, the dawn service from Gallipoli - always profoundly moving!
I think most of us realise that others died there too. I have no direct ancestors who were at Gallipoli, but one sad little family which I have discovered since I've been researching has such a person. Father a brilliant English chemist, mother an important Irish novelist, and seemingly a marriage beset with problems. They had only one son, and he was killed at Gallipoli. I think of him every Anzac Day. In Memoriam Captain Walter John Hartley. :'( :'(
MarieC
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A song to commemorate the slain and the injured...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3pU7rsim3E
meles
Hi Meles
I have this song on my C&W cds (should I admit to having such a CD) - I cry always when it plays - I well realise why we have days of remembrance - but this song should be compulsory listening for those who celebrate war. I think it was written in the Vietnam era.
And thank you for the link Ruskie - aptly entitled "Lest we forget the futility of war"
Trish
Edit: I didn't realise we'd moved outside of the Oz board - I thought I was talking about Anzac day - which does truly relate to Australia & New Zealand - not impressed with the merge
Eric Bogle, the same chap who wrote "No Mans Land" the other seminal folk song about WW1...Strange that the two best known "modern" songs about the conflict both came from the same hand!...Waltzing Matilda was written in 1972, and No mans Land 1976.
He was actually a Scot born in Peebles who moved to Oz after meeting his wife to be whilst on tour...
http://ericbogle.net/lyrics/index.htm
As for the merge...the mods merged what they thought were "just two threads about the same thing..." The thread started by Annie was to commemorate he large numbers of others (Brits) that died there as well, to run in conjunction with the Anzac thread...
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Oh I started a thread too but I just wanted it to be somewhere for people to say who they were remembering today, not a topic for debate on the futility of war :(
Anyway, today I'm still thinking of John Hogg Smith and his brother Peter Hogg who emigrated to New Zealand from Roxburghshire in 1912. John joined the NZEF in 1914, and was wounded 4 days after the commencement of the gallipoli campaign; he died a week later on a hospital ship :(. Peter also joined up and served in France and was one of the lucky ones who returned home to Auckland, married and had a family. :)
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Hi Scrimnet
Thanks for the info - appreciated - there is still to me much difference between remembering those who served and the Oz celebrations on Anzac Day. Of course there were many many more in the armed forces in UK than in Oz, and from my point of view those of us with relatives who served, whether they survived or not, remember them most of the time, not just on one day. It was always my understanding that April 25 celebrations was somewhat unique to Oz and NA. Does anyone else have a public holiday on this date?
What you want and what you get are often very different in real life Sparkle - and war is still futile.
Trish
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Hi Scrimnet
Thanks for the info - appreciated - there is still to me much difference between remembering those who served and the Oz celebrations on Anzac Day. Of course there were many many more in the armed forces in UK than in Oz, and from my point of view those of us with relatives who served, whether they survived or not, remember them most of the time, not just on one day. It was always my understanding that April 25 celebrations was somewhat unique to Oz and NA. Does anyone else have a public holiday on this date?
What you want and what you get are often very different in real life Sparkle - and war is still futile.
Trish
The war forged both Australia and New Zealand's identities as countries in their own right independant of Britain as they were really both still in infancy (NZ more so) and also a combined comaraderie between Australia and NZ....this is why it is important. For the size of both countries their losses by percentage of soldiers to each country's populaton was massive compared to the larger countries. It is for these reasons it is not just a flippant 'public holiday'.
Now ANZAC day incorporates so much more and is a reminder to both Aussies and Kiwis of our current gallant forces, including non combative peacekeepers and making younger generations aware of yes, the futility of war and waste of lives...but unfortunately war will always be with us and we can at least be proud of the sacrifices our soldiers have made and will make.
A saying my great grandmother (1886-1961) used to have whenever a boy was born into the family.... "another little bullet for the next war"
Remembering:
Great Aunt Jose's first husband Len (WWII)
http://sarndra.com/jose.html
and Great Uncle Peter (Korean War)
http://sarndra.com/peter.html
Sarndra
www.sarndra.com
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Actually for ANZAC day I am wearing my NZ rugger top today (it is friday, and I'm in the office!! Errr... doing sport!) in memoriam for the day. I almost put on some WW1 kit that I have....to show solidarity, but the Lemon Squeezer hat wouldn't draw the correct comments.... ::)
Only ONE person has come up to me and said "oooh... ANZAC day"
We don't have a public holiday here...In fact apart from Remembrance Sunday there is nothing...
There has been some talk of an "Armed Forces Day", but I expect that this will come to nought...
We have one family member on the Port Moresby memorial...
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Images removed as it may infringe copy rights
THE SONG SAYS IT ALL
CLICK HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psoTEzpHIbI)
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The war forged both Australia and New Zealand's identities as countries in their own right independant of Britain as they were really both still in infancy (NZ more so) and also a combined comaraderie between Australia and NZ....this is why it is important. For the size of both countries their losses by percentage of soldiers to each country's populaton was massive compared to the larger countries. It is for these reasons it is not just a flippant 'public holiday'.
Now ANZAC day incorporates so much more and is a reminder to both Aussies and Kiwis of our current gallant forces, including non combative peacekeepers and making younger generations aware of yes, the futility of war and waste of lives...but unfortunately war will always be with us and we can at least be proud of the sacrifices our soldiers have made and will make.
Beautifully said, Sarndra! I completely agree, and I think this is how most Aussies who attend the services (can't speak for Kiwis! :) ) feel!
MarieC
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In Bury Lancashire , they are holding a " Gallipoli dayparade" this sunday morning
Migky ;)
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Beautifully said, Sarndra! I completely agree, and I think this is how most Aussies who attend the services (can't speak for Kiwis! :) ) feel!
MarieC
;)
It's an emotional day for me... think i must have been there in my last life :-) Actually i think it's the fact that those poor lads of WW1 really did go in blind and terribly mislead by those they trusted. :'(
Sarndra
www.sarndra.com
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In Bury Lancashire , they are holding a " Gallipoli dayparade" this sunday morning
Migky ;)
I love how many other countries understand the significance :-) I as a Kiwi certainly appreciate that.
Sarndra
www.sarndra.com
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I too get quite emotional on Anzac Day. Am thinking of getting replicas made of my dad's medals and marching for him - now that really would be an emotional experience!
MarieC
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I have recently found out about my great uncle Edward James, Essex Regiment who was killed on the landings but the amazing thing was that I went to my uncles house and he said that he has two medals that he don’t know who they belong to and i said to him look on the side and it should say his name, and he looked at me as if he was confused as he had had them for years and after that he said I could keep them. And it wasn’t until I got home that i realised that he was in the Gallipoli war and the date was the 15th of April only 10 days before the commemoration of the battle and his death as he died on the day of the landings.
Thomas
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Good morning,
As an RBL standard bearer I have never heard of or seen anything about a memorial parade for Gallipoli. Or not in Sussex anyway, so perhaps it's time for me to bring this oversight to the attention of the hierarchy for future reference. I would gladly carry my branch standard in memory of those who didn't return just as I do on rememberance day, armistice day,Dieppe raid service in Newhaven and many other occasions.
John915