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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Kiwi007 on Thursday 24 April 08 04:37 BST (UK)
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Hello!
I am helping a lady research her family. So far, I have found Sarah FITTES who married in Tynemouth in 1873, then re-married 1875 Newcastle on Tyne to George HISLOP, a mariner.
George and Sarah HISLOP seem to be in Liverpool in 1901 - George says he is 55 so birth about 1846. He also says he was b Nth Shields, however, I cannot find a birth on Free BMD to match.
I am hoping to find him in an early census to locate his parents - tricky I know!
I am also after Sarah FITTES family - all the children were born in Wooler, Northumberland_
Parents John & Sarah - no other details
Sarah b 1851
Mary b 1853,
jane b 1854
James b 1856 ( found him in 1881)
George b 1859 ( found 1881 )
Queenie b 1861 ( found 1881)-she married John Robert DAVEY in 1882 and died 1906
Ann b 1864
I am wondering if the family moved to Newcastle on Tyne after the birth of Ann - I found a death for an Ann b 1863/4 there which could be the girl above
Also found a death for a Sarah FETTES aged 70 , in 1899 in Berwick- b abt 1829 . I cannot find her in 1881 though
The name gets mispelt ALOT, so I am hoping we can narrow things down by using Queenies name as a good-ish clue!
Fingers crossed.
Kind regards
Kiwi
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Here is Sarah and her family in 1861 Kiwi ..
1861 census:
RG9/3892, Folio 69, Page 28
Northumberland, Wooler
Tenter Hill
John Fettis, h. mar, 31, Chimney Sweep
Sarah, wife, 29
Sarah, dau, 10
James, son, 5
George, son, 2
Queensy, dau, 2 mths
Charles Harris, serv, unm 18, b. Northd, Newcastle
John McCall, serv, unm, 16, Sweep App, b. Northd, Cramlington
All family born in Wooler, Northumberland
Kind regards,
Pels.
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1871 census:
RG10/5191, Folio 25, Page 43
Northumberland, Wooler
Back Lane
John Feltes, h. mar, 42, Sweep
Sarah, wife, 39
Sarah, dau, 19
James, 15, Sweep? Apprentice
George, son, 12, Scholar
Quein?, dau, 10
Ann, dau, 7
John, son, 4
All born in Wooler
Regards,
Pels. :)
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1851 census:
HO107/2422, Folio 414, Page 25
Northumberland, Wooler
Tenter Hill
James Fettis, h. mar, 60, c. Sweep, b. Scotland
Mary, wife, 57, b. Northd, Framlington
James, son, unm, 25, Masons Labourer, b. Wooler
John, son, mar?, 21, Sweep
Sarah, dau, unm, 20, b. Northd, Doddington
Ann, dau, mar?, 17
William Campble, grandson, 12
Mary Campble, grandau, 10
+ 2 Sweeps servants
All born in Wooler unless otherwise stated.
Kind regards,
Pels.
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I will also include the 1841 .. because it explains where the
name Queenie may derive from .. :)
1841 census:
HO107/833/12, Folio 10, Page 13
Northumberland, Wooler
Tenter Hill
James Fettes, 50, Chimney Sweep, S.
Mary, 47
Queen, 18
James, 14
John, 11
Ann, 9
Mary, 6
All born in county with the exception of James.
Kind regards,
Pels.
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In 1881 John and Sarah were still living in Wooler .. indexed as Fetler.
RG11/5135, Folio 68, Page 35
Kind regards,
Pels.
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1891 census:
RG12/4271, Folio 60, Page 26
Northumberland, Wooler
Tenter Hill
John Fettes, h. mar, 65, Retired Chimney Sweep, b. Wooler
Sarah, wife, 62, b. Doddington
John, son, mar, 23, Chimney Sweep, b. Wooler
Jane, dau in law, 21, b. Scotland
Kind regards,
Pels.
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I can't seem to find either John or Sarah after 1891 .. therefore your death for Sarah in 1899 looks like a good possibility.
In 1901, John their son was living with his wife Jane and family in Wooler but no sign of the his parents .. :-\
RG13/4849, Folio 64, Page 34
Indexed as Fettis.
If you would also like the above details, please don't hesitate to ask .. :)
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The 1851 census is confusing me with regard to the marital status
of John .. this looks like a birth for his daughter Sarah .. ?
Birth, Dec. qtr, 1851
Sarah Fettis
Glendale, Vol 25 page 293
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The 1851 census is confusing me with regard to the marital status
of John .. ?
Just to explain further .. the birthplace for Sarah clearly states Doddington in 1891. In 1851 the birthplace for the claimed unmarried daughter of James .. and sister to John is also Doddington.
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5053/fettispn0.jpg)
I would hazard a guess the 1851 census should read dau in law .. but I haven't been able to find a marriage as yet .. ?
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In 1851 the census details were taken on the evening of the 30th March .. I wonder where John's wife Sarah was .. unless it's just a coincidence his sister was born in Doddington .. and he wasn't actually married at this point?
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/places?NBL,NT995322,5,Doddington
Wooler and Doddington are only approx. 2.6 miles apart according to Genuki .. :)
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Mary b 1853,
Mary doesn't appear on the 1861 census .. but there is the following death ..
Death, Dec qtr, 1857
Mary Fettis
Glendale, Vol 10b, page 212
Pels. :-\
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jane b 1854
And neither does Jane ..
Death, Sept. qtr, 1855
Jane Fettis
Glendale, Vol 10b, page 182
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James b 1856 ( found him in 1881)
In 1881 James was married to Janet .. I wonder if this is his marriage ..
Marriage, Jun qtr, 1879
James Fettis
Jane McGregor
Glendale, Vol 10b, page 507
In 1871 there was a Janet McGregor, b.1854 - Spittal .. living in Doddington .. :)
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George b 1859 ( found 1881 )
In 1891 George is married to Ellen J and living in Westgate, Newcastle ..
1891 census:
RG12/4193, Folio 29, Page 53
Northumberland, Newcastle
Westgate
15, Back George St.
George Fettes, h, mar, 31, Mason, b. Wooler
Ellen J, wife, 28, b. Wooler
John, son, 5, b. Wooler
Charles Carr, bro in law, unm, 30, Brewers Labourer, b. Wooler
James Carr, bro in law, 24, Railway Lab, b. Wooler
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Marriage for George and Ellen .. :)
Marriage, Jun qtr, 1882
George Fettis
Ellen Jane Carr
Glendale, Vol 10b, page 623
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Ann b 1864
I am wondering if the family moved to Newcastle on Tyne after the birth of Ann - I found a death for an Ann b 1863/4 there which could be the girl above
According to FreeBMD .. there is this death which looks very likely for Ann .. but in the Glendale registration district in which Wooler was situated .. not Newcastle .. :)
Birth, Sept. qtr, 1863
Ann Fettis
Glendale, Vol 10b, page 334
Death, Sept. qtr, 1877
Ann Fettis, age 14
Glendale, Vol 10b, page 224
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I have found Sarah FITTES who married in Tynemouth in 1873, then re-married 1875 Newcastle on Tyne to George HISLOP, a mariner.
George and Sarah HISLOP seem to be in Liverpool in 1901 - George says he is 55 so birth about 1846. He also says he was b Nth Shields, however, I cannot find a birth on Free BMD to match.
I am hoping to find him in an early census to locate his parents - tricky I know!
Sarah b 1851
James b 1856 ( found him in 1881)
George b 1859 ( found 1881 )
Queenie b 1861 ( found 1881)-she married John Robert DAVEY in 1882 and died 1906
Just bringing this forward .. to save me returning to the other page and getting confused .. ;D
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Queenie b 1861 ( found 1881)-she married John Robert DAVEY in 1882 and died 1906
1891 census:
RG12/4268, Folio 49, Page 8
Northumberland, Tweedmouth
24, Kiln Hill
John R Davey, h, mar, 36, Railway Signalman, b. E Yorkshire, North Cave
Queenie, wife, 30, b. Wooler
Annie, dau, 8, Scholar, b. Northd, Spital
John, son, 7, Scholar, b. Wooler
Amelia, dau, 1, b. Tweedmouth
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1901 census:
RG12/4268, Folio 49, Page 8
Northumberland, Tweedmouth
14, St Helens Terrace
John R Davey, h. mar, 46, Railway Block Signalman, b. Yorks, North Cave
Queene, wife, 40, b. Wooler
Annie, dau, unm, 18, Pupil Teacher School, b. Spittal
John, son, unm, 17, Postal Telephonist, b. Wooler
Amelia, dau, 11, b. Tweedmouth
Queene, dau, 6, b. Spittal
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Now for Sarah, b.1851 in Wooler .. I hope you don't mind me repeating your findings .. but it will help me to understand .. :-\
I have found Sarah FITTES who married in Tynemouth in 1873, then re-married 1875 Newcastle on Tyne to George HISLOP, a mariner.
George and Sarah HISLOP seem to be in Liverpool in 1901 - George says he is 55 so birth about 1846. He also says he was b Nth Shields, however, I cannot find a birth on Free BMD to match.
Marriage, Sept., 1873
Sarah Fittis
Richard Eddy
Tynemouth, Vol 10b, page 413
Death, Jun qtr, 1874
Richard Eddy, age 25
Tynemouth, Vol 10b, page 122
Marriage, Sept. qtr. 1875
George Hislop
Sarah Eddy
Newcastle T., Vol 10b, page 102
You didn't mention having Sarah in 1881, I wonder if this could be her .. ?
1881 census:
RG11/5075, Folio 101, Page 42
Northumberland, North Shields
Chirton
83, Prudhoe St.
Sarah Hislop. wife, mar, 30, b. Northd, Chatton
Margaret, dau, 6, b. Northd, Wooler
Ann, dau, 2, b. Northd, N. Shields
No sign of George .. but if he was a Mariner ..
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Heslop appears to be more of a popular surname variant for births than Hislop in this part of the world .. ?
The problem is .. with Northumberland being so close to the Scottish boarder, George could have always been born in Berwickshire .. :-\
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If I post the details from 1901 ..
1901 census:
RG13/3411, Folio 23, Page 38
Lancashire, Liverpool
6, Currie St.
George Hislop, h. mar, 55, Master Mariner, b. North Shields, Northumberland
Sarah, wife, 48, Licenced Grocer? , b. Northb'd, Wooler
George, son, unm, 19, Miller, b. Northb'd, Nrth Shields
John W, son, 17, Millers Clerk, b. Northbl'd, Nrth Shields
Amy, dau, 12, b. Chr, Birkenhead
Florrie, dau, 10, b. Chr, Birkenhead
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It might help if I could find them in 1891 .. I'm presuming they are in the Birkenhead area .. ?
Birth, Mar qtr, 1889
Amy Hislop
Birkenhead, Vol 8a, page 468
Birth, Dec qtr, 1890
Florence Hislop
Birkenhead, Vol 8a, page 467
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Hi Pels
I answered your plea - I've found them for you :) Had to go to another source though!
72 Exmouth Street, Birkenhead
RG12/2881 Folio 66 page 15
Sarah Heslop, 40, wife, Furniture broker, b. Berwick on Tweed, Nbld
Mary Ann, 16, b. Berwick on Tweed, Nbld
Ann, 12, b. Berwick on Tweed, Nbld
George, 7, b. Berwick on Tweed, Nbld
John W, 7, b. Berwick on Tweed, Nbld
Amy,2, b. Birkenhead, Cheshire
Florence, 7 mths, b. Birkenhead, Cheshire
Gadget
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Well I never .. their surname is Alldred where I've been looking ..I daren't ask which source, but obviously not the one I've been trawling though! :D
Thankyou! ;D
This means the details from 1881 might be correct too ! :)
Still no nearer to finding anymore about George though, I was hoping he might have been at home in 1891 to give us more to go on. :(
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I remembered all the fuss about the 1891 census so I checked elsewhere - I had ancestors in Cheshire ;)
Have you checked the shipping EDs for George?
Gadget
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To be quite honest I haven't got round to it yet .. :-\
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I've checked Vessels for 1891 - he's not there :(
He might have been in off shore waters and I don't think they were included.
I've not checked Scottish vessels yet :-\
Gadget
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George b 1859 ( found 1881 )
Sorry to go backwards, but just returning to George Fittes once more ..
Death, Jun qtr, 1892
George Fettes, age 35
Newcastle T. Vol 10b, page 56
In 1901 his wife Ellen, was a widow and living with her sister in Wooler.
RG13/4849, Folio 65, Page 35.
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James b 1856 ( found him in 1881)
I'm struggling to leave this family alone .. ;D
Death, Jun. qtr, 1918
James Fettes, aged 62
Berwick, Vol 10b, page 562
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The 1901 census would explain why the death of James was registered in Berwick ..
1901 census:
RG13/4845, Folio 65, Page 17
Northumberland, Tweedmouth
James Fettis, h. mar, 40, Stone Mason, b. Wooler
Janet, wife, 40, b. Spittal
William, son, 15, Colliery Employee [boy], b. Wooler
Mary, dau, 12, b. Wooler
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Well, well, well! All this while I slept! How amazing- thank you all so very much for all this fantastic information.
The lady I am helping has no idea - she wrote to a list yesterday saying she didn't know anything about George Hislop and his family, and in the space of 24 hours we have her whole family - certainly the Fittes line.
I will try to see what else I can find about George HISLOP - he ought to show up in 1851 if born 1846, but maybe his age is wrong in 1901. I have suggested to the researcher that she gets the marriage certificate now its available easily. Will post back as new clues come to hand.
Again, many thanks for all your help.
Cheers
Kiwi
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Hi Kiwi :)
We have been looking at one particular family on the 1861 census which is very tempting:
61 Norfolk Street, Tynemouth
RG09/3841 Folio 19 Page 31
Sophia Hislop, 39, mariners wife, b. Middlesex
George, 10, scholar, b. North Shields
Alexander, 8, scholar, b. North Shields
Sophia Mary, 6, scholat, b. North Shields
John Buckhan, 2, (missing birthplace- probably North Shields)
Mary Ann Hislop, boarder, widow, 79, b. London
This ties in with George's birthplace on the 1901 but the age is 5 years out.
On the 1851 the family are in the same area:
2 Charlotte Street, Tynemouth
Ho107/2410 Folio 280 Page 1
(absent) Head, seaman at sea
Sophia Hislop, wife, 29, b. London
Robert, 2, b. North Shields
George, 5 months, b. North Shields
There is a possible birth registration for this George:
June Q, 1851, Tynemouth, vol 25, page 522
and a possible marriage for his parents:
June q, 1848, Tynemouth, vol 25, page 508
George Hislop and Sophia Stupart are on the same page.
We've not found George on the 1871, 1881 or 1891 censuses so far.
Regards
Gadget
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This is an interesting one in 1871:
32 Copland Terrace, All Staints, Newcastle upon Tyne
RG10/5098 Folio 64 Page 29
George Hislop, 46, Pawnbroker, b. Scotland
Sophia, 50, pawnbrokers wife, b. London
Alexander, 18, engineer at works, b. North Shields
Sophia Mary, 16, scholar, b. North Shields
John Buckan, 11, scholar, b. North Shields
James Walton, 5, scholar, b. North Shields
It's obviously the same family, so George (snr) must have returned from the sea and settled down as a pawnbroker.
I'll try and find whereabouts in Scotland George was from.
Gadget
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Goodness they were just down the road from me!
1881
75 Addison Street, Jesmond, Newcastle
RG11/5067 Folio 125 Page 9
Sophia Hislop, hd, wid, 61, b. London City
John B., 21, clerk, b. Durham, South Shields
James W, 15, butcher (apprentice), b. Northumberland, North Shields
Alfred A, grdson, 5, scholar, b. Newcastle upon Tyne
Gadget
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This is an outside possibility for George, snr, on the 1841. He might well have been at sea but I can't find any suitable canditates in Scotland - either on the census or in the birth records:
1841
Church Stairs, Tynemouth
HO107/826 Book 2 Folio 15 Page 22
Andrew Hislop, 40-44, mariner, b. Scotland
Hannah, 40-44
George, 15-19
John, 14
All except Andrew b. Northumberland
Andrew in 1851:
Tynemouth
HO7/2410 Folio 56 Page 30
Andrew Hislop, head, wid, 60, Tide Waiter in HMC (a Customs Officer)*, b. Scotland
* with thanks to other Rootschatters for helping identify this occ.
No sign of George elsewhere.
I think a few certificates might be needed.
Gadget :)
Added - found this baptism on the IGI (controlled extraction)
Christ Church, Tynemouth - 23 Nov 1823 - George Heslop. Parents Andrew Heslop and Hannah
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I can add to your extraction for George Heslop that he was born at Church Stairs and that the father was a mariner.
Janis
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and a possible marriage for his parents:
June q, 1848, Tynemouth, vol 25, page 508
George Hislop and Sophia Stupart are on the same page.
Just out of curiosity I put the surname Stupart into a search .. only a total of seven turned up in the index for 1841 .. three of whom happened to be living in Tynemouth.
This might come in useful at a later date .. no Sophia though .. ?
1841 census:
HO107/826/6, Folio 45, Page: 6
Northumberland, Tynemouth
Lowlights
Mary Stupart, 55, Seamstress
Mary, 20, Dress Maker
Margaret, 15, Dress Maker
All born outside the county.
Best wishes,
Pels
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A death for Sophia ..
Death, Dec. qtr, 1902
Sophia Hislop, age 82
Newcastle On Tyne, Vol 10b, page 109
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1891 census:
RG12/4207, Folio 32, Page 17
Northumberland, Newcastle
St Andrew's
6, High Friar Street
Sophia Hislop. head of family, widow, 70, b. London
James Witton Hislop, son, mar, 25, General Cartman, b. North Shields
Ellen, wife, 24, b. Byker, Newcastle on Tyne
Sophia Mary, dau, 3, b. Byker
George Thomas, son, 1, b. Newcastle on Tyne
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Just wondering if Sophia changed her name, Pels ::)
Mary on the 1841 is the correct age and the Mary Ann Hislop on the 1861 might well be Mary Ann Stupart - the -do- is difficult to make out. i've had this happen in one of my lines (Sophia obviously gave the info).
Gadget
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Death
June Q, 1866, Tynemouth, vol 10b, Page 94
Mary A Stupart, aged 84
Think the theory may fit - she was 79 in 1861
Gadget :)
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To be perfectly honest I wondered that too .. I know Mary was an extremely common name .. but James called his first born Sophia Mary .. ?
1901 census:
RG13/4792, Folio 102, Page 37
Northumberland, Byker
1418 Walker Rd
James W Hislop, h, mar, 36, Urban Council Cartman, b. North Shields
Ellen, wife, 34, b. Newcastle
Sophia M, dau, 13, Drapers Asstistant
George T, son, 11
James W, son, 9
Ellen, dau, 5
Jane, dau, 3
Sophia, mother, wid, 81, b. London
All children born in Newcastle.
Pels. :)
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:D
Think you missed my death notice - not mine but Mary Ann's ;D
Soory - brain death - you meant Mary = Sophia :-[
I could spend a weekend going around Northumberland taking photos of all these people's birthplaces :D
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Sorry .. I didn't miss it .. you added the second while I was adding to mine about your first reply .. ;D
Just checked the birth of George's son John W, for some reason I was hoping he might be John Witton .. named after James Witton Hislop, he wasn't he was John William.
Clutching at straws to fit them together .. :-\
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Death
June Q, 1866, Tynemouth, vol 10b, Page 94
Mary A Stupart, aged 84
Think the theory may fit - she was 79 in 1861
Gadget :)
Look at this .. :)
Taken from the IGI ..
Birth: 4th April 1820
Christening: 1st May 1820
Saint Paul, Deptford, London.
Sophia Stupert
Father .. Robert Stupert
Mother .. Mary Ann Stupert
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I am hoping this isn't turning into a massive coincidence, but no harm in showing you this .. when I put Robert Stupart with spouse Mary into Family Search .. this was the only result ..
Marriage, 16th November 1811
Robert Stupart
Mary Ann Wolton
Christ Church, Tynemouth, Northumberland
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I've found this in 1851 ..
1851 census:
HO107/2410, Folio 281, Page 2
Northumberland, Tynemouth
Charlotte St.
Mary A Stupart, h. widow, 69, b. Middlesex, London
Mary A Thompson, visitor, 30, b. Middlesex, London
Anna M Thompson, visitor, 6 mths, Northd, North Shields?
I will post the occupation of Mary A, age 69 .. could be connected with a pension?
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A Small Depentener? :-\
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5256/tyneck5.jpg)
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Pels :)
This is great fun as well as (hopefully) good info for Kiwi - so there was a Sophia - wow - well done :D
I think this is getting exciting :D
It looks like Small Depension ???
Gadget
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This is interesting .. here we have a North Shields/London connection.
It makes you wonder whether the Stuparts were born in Northumberland .. moved to Middlesex and married their spouses. In Robert's case he could have returned home with his wife and family .. ?
It would be nice to find out whether Esther was Sophia's aunt by marriage.
1851 census:
HO107/1523, Folio 231, Page 19
Middlesex, Finsbury
St Lukes
J Stupart, h. mar, 56, General Pract? , b. Northumbd, North Shields
Esther, wife, 54, b. Middlesex, Holburn
Francis, dau, unm, 20, b. Yorkshire, South Cave
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Pels and Gadget I am in awe at your research.
Must get back to mine own....
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The above picture of the census entry--the first word is Female not Small. I don't know what the second word is
Janis
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Might be a wild one but there are two posssibles for Mary Ann Wo(a)lton that are coming up around the right time and b.London (as censuses) is:
bpt. 20 Aug 1782, b. 15 Aug 1782
Mary Ann Walton, St Sepulchre, London.
Parents - Thomas Walton and Mary
and
bpt. St Martins in the Field, 9 Oct 1783 - Mary Ann Walton. Parents - Humphrey Walton and Elizabeth
I'll check if either of them had an Esther :)
Gadget
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Pels and Gadget I am in awe at your research.
Must get back to mine own....
I only hope we're on the right track though .. :-[ :-\ :)
The above picture of the census entry--the first word is Female not Small. I don't know what the second word is
Janis
Could it be Female Dependant .. if that is the case Janis? :-\
The writing appears to have faded for the last couple of letters?
Sorry Gadget .. I'll just read your reply .. :)
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The above picture of the census entry--the first word is Female not Small. I don't know what the second word is
Janis
I just don't see it as Female - no e after the first letter.
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I must admit my initial reaction was Small .. ? :(
Stupart wasn't such an uncommon name North of the Border .. Stupurt being one of the variations ..
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So - are we going to Scotland next?
I'll do a search but the North Shields group seem to just appear :-\
Added - I've just done a preliminary search on Stupart (variations) on SP births 1790-1854 and it comes up with 5298 instances. Without variations, it's 36. No Stupurts.
Gadget
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About the Small versus Female, the page before at the bottom is Jane R--is a Small Annuant? Going through pages it seems the annuants were generally older unmarried females but only she has this word in fromnt of "Annuant"
What was the occupation of Mary Stuparts husband?
Janis
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What was the occupation of Mary Stuparts husband?
Janis
I wish we knew Janis, he wasn't with them in 1841? :-\
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This really is impressive! I had looked at Alexander HISLOP in 1881 and wondered about him ( he married Rhoda SPROAT) - and then you linked the whole lot up! Really wonderful. Thank you all again.
As a result of all your look ups, I found Queenie FITTES' future husband, John Robert DAVEY living with William CAMPBELL b 1838 Tweedmouth- in the 1881 census.... now William CAMPBELL and his 10 yo sister, Mary were with James FETTIS, the Scottish chimney sweep in 1851, and I have not been able to figure out who the grandkids parents were- I guess it must have been a FITTES daughter married a CAMPBELL - maybe just before Sept 1837.
I found 2 possible marriages for Mary CAMPBELL in Glendale but its hard to tell as the 1858 Free BMD doesn't have a husband match ( Edward WASTLE married Ann M ), however the 1859 entry shows a marriage to John ALLAN - by 1881 this John is a widower and I see he has a son called Campbell ALLEN aged 8- might be clutching at straws but.....I wonder if its possible to look up the CAMPBELLS in 1841 and say 1861 to see what that picture looks like!
The STUPART family findings are truly wonderful! I have been poking about today looking at a few more possibilities with that name..Mary Ann S married John Josiah THOMPSON in 1848 - don't know what happened to her sister Margaret though.
Many thanks again to all you wonderful researchers.
Kind regards
Kiwi
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As a result of all your look ups, I found Queenie FITTES' future husband, John Robert DAVEY living with William CAMPBELL b 1838 Tweedmouth- in the 1881 census.... now William CAMPBELL and his 10 yo sister, Mary were with James FETTIS, the Scottish chimney sweep in 1851, and I have not been able to figure out who the grandkids parents were- I guess it must have been a FITTES daughter married a CAMPBELL - maybe just before Sept 1837.
I found 2 possible marriages for Mary CAMPBELL in Glendale but its hard to tell as the 1858 Free BMD doesn't have a husband match ( Edward WASTLE married Ann M ), however the 1859 entry shows a marriage to John ALLAN - by 1881 this John is a widower and I see he has a son called Campbell ALLEN aged 8- might be clutching at straws but.....I wonder if its possible to look up the CAMPBELLS in 1841 and say 1861 to see what that picture looks like!
1851 census:
HO107/2422, Folio 414, Page 25
Northumberland, Wooler
Tenter Hill
James Fettis, h. mar, 60, c. Sweep, b. Scotland
Mary, wife, 57, b. Northd, Framlington
James, son, unm, 25, Masons Labourer, b. Wooler
John, son, mar?, 21, Sweep
Sarah, dau, unm, 20, b. Northd, Doddington
Ann, dau, mar?, 17
William Campble, grandson, 12
Mary Campble, grandau, 10
All born in Wooler unless otherwise stated.
Bringing this forward .. to save me being confused with so many family members now involved ..
Pels. :)
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Member subtracted information only I'm afraid .. but it is a Campbell/Fettis connection in Wooler .. :-\
Christening: 8th, January 1837
James Fettis
Parents:
Robert Campbell
Margaret Fettis
Wooler, Northumberland.
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This looks quite promising, taken from an actual Batch number .. :)
Birth, 21st. January, 1817
Christening, 2nd. February, 1817
Margaret Fettes
Parents:
James Fettes
Mary Fettes
Wooler, Northumberland.
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Another daughter for James and Mary:
Birth, 1st. February 1814
Christening, 20th February 1814
Jane Fettis
Parents: James and Mary Fettis
Wooler, Northumberland.
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And a Christening for Queenie:
Christening: 14th. April 1861
Qweeny Fettis
Parents: John and Sarah Fettis
Wooler, Northumberland
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1841 census:
HO107/829/9, Folio 4, Page 13
Northumberland, Wooler
Township of New Bewick
Robert Campbell, 25,
Margaret, 20
Mary, 2mth
All born in county.
This looks like quite a good match for the parents of William, aged 12 in 1851 .. and the parents of James, christened in 1837, but if that's the case .. I wonder where William and James were?
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Just to explain further .. the birthplace for Sarah clearly states Doddington in 1891. In 1851 the birthplace for the claimed unmarried daughter of James .. and sister to John is also Doddington.
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5053/fettispn0.jpg)
I would hazard a guess the 1851 census should read dau in law .. but I haven't been able to find a marriage as yet .. ?
Referring to the above, neither can I find a birth for Sarah .. here are the others, mostly as listed in 1841 and 1851 .. children of James and Mary:
Birth, 1st. February 1814
Christening, 20th February 1814
Jane Fettis
Parents: James and Mary Fettis
Birth, 21st. January, 1817
Christening, 2nd. February, 1817
Margaret Fettes
Parents:
James Fettes
Mary Fettes
Christening, 15th June 1823
Queeny Scott Fettis
Parents:
James Fettis
Mary Fettis
Christening, 13th March 1826
James Fettis
Parents:
James Fettis
Mary Allen
Christening, 19th July 1829
John Fettis
Parents:
James Fettis
Mary Allen
Christening, 8th January 1832
Ann Fettis
Parents:
James Fettis
Mary Allen
Christening, 29th March 1835
Death, 28th September 1848
Mary Fettis
Parents:
James Fettis
Mary Allen
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I've just noticed .. living in the next property to James and Mary in 1851 .. .. :)
1851 census:
HO107/2422, Folio 414, Page 25
Northumberland, Wooler
Tenter Hill
John Hutchison, h, mar, 27, Basket Maker, b. Scotland
Queeney, wife, 28, b. Northd, Wooler
Peter, son, 4, b. Wooler
James, son, 1, b. Wooler
I wonder where these two got married .. ?
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In 1861/1871 and 1881 .. I can see Queeny/Queeney and John living in Coldstream, which is in Scotland and therefore on the Scotland census returns .. :-\
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What information do you need from Scotland, Pels :)
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I think I've just found John in 1891 living with a 16 year old Elizabeth Townsley .. if it's the correct one, Queenie must have died at some point between 1881 and 1891 .. I wonder is there a death in this area?
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Queeny Hutchison died 9th October 1887, New Road Coldstream, aged 62. Married to John Hutchison, basket maker. Parents are listed as James Fettes, chimney sweep (dec) and Mary, m.s. Allan (dec). She died from Cirrhosis of the stomach (? )* and general debility. Richard Wilson, son in law was the informant
* I'll put it up in a minute - see what you think it is - it's spelled wrongly though!
Gadget :)
Added - she died at 8.15 am :-\
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Brilliant stuff! :D :D
This has slotted it all together beautifully Gadget! :)
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Not bad - eh :D :D :D
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8044/queenie1887pt7.jpg)
What do you think?
Gadget
Give a shout for any other Scottish stuff - do you think John died there as well?
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I think Kiwi should be overjoyed with that Gadget .. :) :)
Just checking the 1901 in Scotland to see if John is there .. ;)
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Nothing there in 1901 for John as far as I can see .. ? :-\
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Can't find a death for him 1891-1930, Berwick. I'll have another go but maybe he went back or died 'unknown' :-\
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I wonder if he did go back to England .. :-\
Here they are in 1861 ..
1861 census:
Source Citation, ED 2, Line 3, Reg. No 233
Berwickshire, Coldstream
5, Duke Street
John Hutchison, h. mar, 35, Basket Maker, b. Galashiels, Selkirk
Queeny, wife, 36, b. England
James, son, 11, b. England
Margaret, dau, 9, b. Coldstream
Jane, dau, 6, b. Coldstream
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1871 census:
Source Citation, ED 2, Line 21
Berwickshire, Coldstream
Old Brewery Yard 2
John Hutchison, h. mar, 46, Basket Maker, b. Galashiels, Roxburghshire
Queeney, wife, 45, b. England
Jane, 15, b. Coldstream, Berwickshire
John, grandson, 3, b. Coldstream, Berwickshire
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1881 census:
Source Citation, ED 2, Line 11
Berwickshire, Coldstream
39 Duke Street
John Hutchison, h, mar, 57, Basket Maker, b. Galashiels, Selkirk
Queeny, wife, 58, Licensed Hawker, b. England
John, grandson, 14, Basket Maker, b. Coldstream, Berwickshire
Betty Downsley, grandaughter, 6, Scholar, b. Coldstream
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Would you believe we have another little Queenie, this time the
great grandaughter of Queenie, b. 1823 .. :)
1901 census:
RG13/4840, Folio 64, Page 30
Northumberland, Alnwick
James Hutchinson, h. mar, 51, Basket Maker, b. Northumberland, Wooler
Margaret, wife, mar, 51, b. Rothbury
James, son, 28, Labourer at Coal Pit, above ground, b. Coldstream
Thomas, son, 26, b. Newcastle on Tyne
Elizabeth dau, 18, Day Girl Char, b. Alnwick
William, son, 16, Basket Maker, b. Alnwick
Grace, dau, 14, Basket makers Asst, b. Alnwick
Queenie, grandaughter, 3, b. Alnwick
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I haven't been able to find either James or Mary Fettis in 1861,
these would appear to be their deaths ..
Death, Dec. qtr, 1857
Mary Fettis
Glendale, Vol, 10b, page 212
Death, Jun. qtr, 1858
James Fettis
Glendale, Vol 10b, page 202
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Not sure if this is him but it's the only one born Galashiels around the correct time:
bpt. 16 May 1823 Galashiels John Fergrieve Hutchisan. Parents - Peter Hutchisan and Jean Kerr
Gadget
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That's interesting because John's first son was named Peter, b. 1846/7 .. I haven't been able to find any trace of him though, other than on the 1851 census in Wooler ..
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Having just said that .. ;D
Births, Mar. qtr, 1847
Peter Hutchison
Glendale, Vol 25, page 2?
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Found John Hutchison's death:
23 Nov 1894 - 8pm, New Road, Coldstream
John Hutchison, Basket Maker, widower of Queeny Fettes, aged 69.
Parents - Peter Hutchison, basket maker, (dec) and Mary (m.s. Not known). Cause of death - 1. chronic interstitial pneumonia 2. Emphysema and cardiac disease.
Informant - Jane Wilson, daughter, present at death.
Not sure that Jane knew her grandmother's name - she might have been named for her :-\
Gadget
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So first born Peter was named after his grandfather .. :)
I've looked everywhere for Robert and Margaret Campbell in 1851/1861 .. to try and either prove or disprove these were the parents of William and Mary ..
1841 census:
HO107/829/9, Folio 4, Page 13
Northumberland, Wooler
Township of New Bewick
Robert Campbell, 25,
Margaret, 20
Mary, 2mth
All born in county.
I wonder where they were .. I'm hoping I've covered the deaths too just in case .. nothing so far .. ?
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Hi Pels
This thread is growing and I'm not sure where we pick up Robert Campbell - do you have a marriage ref for them or have them on the 1851? I'm just wondering if it could be a Lamberton Toll marriage :-\
I'm feeling like a border reiver - two threads that are both Northumberland and Scotland. Don't be surprised if I post the wrong info ;D
Gadget
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This thread is growing and I'm not sure where we pick up Robert Campbell - do you have a marriage ref for them or have them on the 1851? I'm just wondering if it could be a Lamberton Toll marriage :-\
As a result of all your look ups, I found Queenie FITTES' future husband, John Robert DAVEY living with William CAMPBELL b 1838 Tweedmouth- in the 1881 census.... now William CAMPBELL and his 10 yo sister, Mary were with James FETTIS, the Scottish chimney sweep in 1851, and I have not been able to figure out who the grandkids parents were- I guess it must have been a FITTES daughter married a CAMPBELL - maybe just before Sept 1837.
I found 2 possible marriages for Mary CAMPBELL in Glendale but its hard to tell as the 1858 Free BMD doesn't have a husband match ( Edward WASTLE married Ann M ), however the 1859 entry shows a marriage to John ALLAN - by 1881 this John is a widower and I see he has a son called Campbell ALLEN aged 8- might be clutching at straws but.....I wonder if its possible to look up the CAMPBELLS in 1841 and say 1861 to see what that picture looks like!
Member subtracted information only I'm afraid .. but it is a Campbell/Fettis connection in Wooler .. :-\
Christening: 8th, January 1837
James Fettis
Parents:
Robert Campbell
Margaret Fettis
Wooler, Northumberland.
1851 census:
HO107/2422, Folio 414, Page 25
Northumberland, Wooler
Tenter Hill
James Fettis, h. mar, 60, c. Sweep, b. Scotland
Mary, wife, 57, b. Northd, Framlington
James, son, unm, 25, Masons Labourer, b. Wooler
John, son, mar?, 21, Sweep
Sarah, dau, unm, 20, b. Northd, Doddington
Ann, dau, mar?, 17
William Campble, grandson, 12
Mary Campble, grandau, 10
All born in Wooler unless otherwise stated.
This might help to make it a tad clearer Gadget .. :)
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I've been looking for the 'Scottish chimney sweep' :-\
Now, as far as my knowledge of Scottish surnames is concerned, Fettes/Fittes/Feddes is an Aberdeen/Angus name.
the only baptism that I can find that might fit him is:
22 April 1792, Dundee - James Fettes - parents James Fettes and Ann Keiller
None closer to Northumberland!
Gadget
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I imagined he would have been born a lot lower down, nearer the border .. :-\
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Dundee -> Berwick or Dundee -> Forth -> Berwick :-\
He might not appear in the baptisms at all though. There are only 23 bpts. for Fettes (variations) showing in Berwickshire, 1670-1854 and 5 Peters are included as a soundex - all Coldstream ::)
Added - even via one of the Tyne ports :-\
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Medals all round I'd say! Fantastic research folks! None if it easy either- I have been working on a clue you found with young Betty TOWNSLEY in 1881 - born to, I presume, Margaret Hutchison and Thomas TOWNSLEY - they had 3 children - Queenie b 1872, in Wooler who married 1894 Newcastle T - cannot be sure who to, Elizabeth b 1874 in Cold Stream- can't find her after 1881, although I think someone may have found her with Granddad, John Hutchison in 1891, and then there was Ambrose b 1870, Cold Stream - no other details on him- nor on his parents! Perhaps they are hiding in amongst the Scottish records.
I cam't believe the amazing detail you found on the deaths of the Hutchison parents....you have excellent resources, I must say ( and very good eyes )!
I am truly grateful for all you have done- the lady I am helping is just waiting on the George HISLOP marriage cert, but I think we have found the right family.
Certainly she has enough to go on with, so if you are heartedly sick of this - or dizzy from all the squinting, I will fully understand-I know my eyes hurt from today and I didn't get very far!
I did note ( just in case ) there was a Margaret Hutchison TOWNSLEY b Berwick 1893 - she must be a relative, but to whom I wonder..
Many thanks again everyone for all your amazing help. I hope you had fun!
Kind regards
Kiwi
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Hi Kiwi and Pels :)
Kiwi ~ Pels has done most of the work on this one and should be singled out for praise. She's stuck at it since Thursday. I've just come in here and there.
Well done Pels :)
The 'Scottish chimney sweep', James Fittis/Fettes. I've cast the net wider and found one patron submission entry on the IGI:
b. about 1790, North, Wooler . Death 20 March 1855, Alnwick (no parents listed)
and a controlled extraction:
b. 17 Jan 1791, St Thomas Aquino (?should be Aquinas -surely?), Stella, Durham. Parents - George Fittis and Elizabeth Somerside.
Apart from this the only other one is the one I found in Dundee.
Gadget
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Dear Pels,
I would like to say a very big thank you to you for the enormous amount of research you did for me over the last few days! What a godsend you have been.
I am putting all the clues together to send off to the lady I have been helping. If she gets back to me with any more questions, I will start a new thread.
You have been truly wonderful.
Many thanks again
Kiwi
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James b 1856 ( found him in 1881)
In 1881 James was married to Janet .. I wonder if this is his marriage ..
Marriage, Jun qtr, 1879
James Fettis
Jane McGregor
Glendale, Vol 10b, page 507
In 1871 there was a Janet McGregor, b.1854 - Spittal .. living in Doddington .. :)
just looking up your research with interest.james fettis mentioned above would me my gg grandfather.His wife jane i believe was of the traveling community.very interesting reading,if i can be of any help to you in your research just drop a line.