RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: fridayjan on Tuesday 22 April 08 20:50 BST (UK)
-
Hi, I've been tracing the McGavin family (Robert and Margaret, nee Skelly) and have found them in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census returns on Ancestry, but after that they seem to disappear - or at least I can't find them!!
Robert was born c1810 in Irvine, Ayrshire and Margaret in 1811 in Monkton Ayrshire.
They have at least seven children, but I can't find a record of any of their births on Scotlandspeople either!!
Robert is listed in 1851 as a Commission Merchant and Shipowner, and in 1861 as a Merchant and JP. I googled him and found two references to investigions into shipping accidents that were looked into by "Robert McGavin, JP for Forfar" - so wondered if this could be him.
Does anyone have any ideas about how I can trace this family any further? I've tried searching for variations of McGavin but with no luck.
I'm running out of ideas!!
Janet
-
Where are they residing in 1841,1851 and 1861?
-
There is a death of a Robert Mcgavin in 1874 (aged 63) in Johnston Renfrew on Scotlandspeople
-
Hello,
The IGI has to the couple
1. JANET SKELLY MCGAVIN Christening: 18 SEP 1836 Associate Session, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
2. MARY REID MCGAVIN Christening: 29 JUL 1838 Associate Session, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
FYI, there is at roughly the same time a Robert McGavin and a Margaret Wilson beginning to have children - starting in 1838.
To use the IGI to search for all children born to the same parents go to:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
1. Enter father and mothers names in the 2 right hand boxes
2. 'Event' select 'birth/christening'
3. 'Year' - select - type '1830'
4. 'Year range' - enter - '+ or - 20 years'
5. 'Region' enter 'British Isles'
6. Country - enter 'Scotland'
7. County - enter - 'all counties’ (or specify)
* Press enter and hopefully up will come a list :O)
Change the parameters indicated as required. Good luck. Regards, Steve :O)
-
Hi Janet
There really doesn't seem to be any trace of Robert and Margaret after 1861 does there?!
I cannot see a death for Margaret in Scotland searching for a Margaret M*cG*v*n/Sk* (pretty open on the searches!). I would also have thought that given what Robert did for a living, he would probably have left a will but the only one I could find of interest were these two entries on SP:
1 MacGavin Robert 30/10/1901 Coen River, Colony of Queensland, d. 19/02/1900 at The Bend, Coen River, intestate non-Scottish Court SC70/7/5
2 MacGavin Robert 27/12/1900 Accountant, The Bend, Coen River, Coen, Colony of Queensland Edinburgh Sheriff Court Inventories SC70/1/396
However, given the year, it may be too late for Robert.
Have you managed to find any of their children post 1861 to check on marriage or death certs whether parents were still living?
I can see the two google refs that you mentioned but they are both in the late 1880s and there is no sign of Robert after 1861. Still worthwhile following up though if nothing else to eliminate this Robert McGavin. I found these two refs for Dundee City Archives:
Records retransmitted from the National Archives of Scotland
• Justices of the Peace for the County of the City of Dundee 1894-1975
• Justices of the Peace for the County of Angus 1791-1974
Might be worthwhile following up to see what info these registers hold.
There is nothing showing for in the English Censuses 1871/81 that I could see but there is certainly the possibility they may have left Scotland after the 1861 census given the lack of death entries for both Robert and Margaret.
Regards.
Monica :)
Hi Sherlock: The 1874 death also shows on the Wills section at SP:
McGavin Robert 30/07/1874 Blacksmith in Johnstone Paisley Sheriff Court SC58/42/41
-
In 1841 they're in "Ibrox Holm, Govan, Lanarkshire, 1851 - St Vincent Park, Govan and 1861 - 2 St Vincent Park, Govan.
I had a look at the Robert McGavin in 1874 but it's not him I'm afraid (he's a blacksmith).
I'm wondering if there's a mistranscribing of the surname - but it seems too much of a coincidence for it always to be mistranscribed? James, one of their sons appears in 1851 aged 8, but is missing in 1861 and I couldn't find a death for him either. Maybe they changed their name or emigrated!
-
Thanks Monica and Piglet (our messages crossed in the post)
I'm pretty sure that Robert (Jnr's) parents were Robert McGavin and Mary Reid, and I've found someone who I presume is a sibling of Robert Jnr's - Matthew (1807-1874) who was a Presbyterian Minister in ... Australia.
However, Robert (Jnr) also had a son called Robert (b1840) (just to confuse me!).
The strange thing is that so far I've not been able to find any trace (B's, M's or D's) for any of the children.
The internet seems to be running very slooooowly tonight, so I think I'll give up for now and have another go tomorrow - and try your suggestion for searching the IGI.
Thanks for all your help.
Janet
-
Hi Janet, I found these on the IGIs
ROBERT MCGAVIN = MARGARET SKELLY 11th Oct 1835 Barony Lanark, also 18th Oct 1835 Irvine Ayrshire. As the Banns were called in Barony one of them must have been living there at the time.
Also found four children.
JANET SKELLY MCGAVIN ch 18th Sept 1836 Associate Session Glasgow
MARY REID MCGAVIN ch 29th July 1838 Associate Session Glasgow
MARGARET MCGAVIN ch 31st Oct 1852 Associate Session Glasgow
AGNES BOYD MCGAVIN b 16th Mar 1855 Govan Lanark, ch 10th June 1855, ch 10th June 1855 Associate Session Glasgow
Fourteen year gap between Mary and Margaret, perhaps they had boys in this period but only had girls christened.
-
That great Val, that 1855 birth cert for Agnes could provide a lot more info.
Janet, 1855 and the first year of official reg makes this BC certainly one to view due to the amount of extra info that was included for one year only. Entries ran over two pages of the register and for births should include for parents:
When and where they married
Where they were born
What their usual residence was and how long they had lived there
How many children they'd had (living and deceased)
Monica
-
With those daughters' names, this must be Margaret's entry:
MARGARET SKELLY Christening: 12 MAR 1811 Monkton, Ayr, Scotland
Parents:JOHN SKELLY and JANNET BOYD
Monica
-
Likely entry for Robert (and Matthew) on the OPRs:
1 23/10/1807 MCGAVIN MATHEW ROBERT MCGAVIN/MARY REID FR492 M Irvine /AYR 595/ 0020 0153
2 07/01/1809 MCGAVIN ROBERT ROBERT MCGAVIN/MARY REID FR496 M Irvine /AYR 595/ 0020 0157
There is also a James McGavin showing in the censuses in Forfar, born in Irvine c. 1810 who shows as a justice of the peace there I lie :P, he's a Minister Of U P Church in Dundee!. Not sure if he is connected.
Monica
-
Hello Janet,
A couple of things.
1. That batch of Glasgow Associate Session records is one of those infuriating batches where the LDS have extracted only females into the online IGI. If one ordered the relevant film in to one's local LDS Family History centre, it would probably list the boys as well.
The pre-1855 baptisms won't be found on ScotlandsPeople which includes only OPR entries i.e. from the established Church of Scotland.
2. The Queensland, Australia historical indexes (1829-1914 for births; to 1929 for marriages and deaths) of BMDs can be searched online free at:
http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/829.htm
The trigger for searching these was Monica's great find on SP of a 1900 Will for a Robert MACGAVIN in Queensland.
Fortunately, there are relevant records which indicate that the family was in Queenland before the UK 1871 census.
They include:
Marriages
1866, Mary Reid MCGAVIN to Henry MARSH
Deaths
1868, Jessie Skelly MCGAVIN, parents Robert MCGAVIN & Margaret SKELLY
And here is mother Margaret's death:
1886, Margaret MCGAVIN, parents John SKELLY & Janet BOYD
And those of sons:
1921, John Adams Skelly MCGAVIN, parents Robert MCGAVIN & Margaret SKELLY
1925, James MCGAVIN, parents Robert MCGAVIN & Margaret SKELLY
Anyway, you can have a search yourself for other relevant records :)
And then you might wish to post on the Emigrants to Australia board (with a cross-reference to this thread).
JAP
-
PS: You've no doubt seen the entry re Robert's brother Matthew at:
http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A050178b.htm
-
Thank you all so much for your fantastic help!
I was supposed to be doing housework today!! Hmmm, so I'll be popping in and out during the day to look at all the information you've given me in more detail.
My gt gt grandfather was Adam Skelly (1842) born in St Vincent in the West Indies, where his father was also Adam Skelly (1805). In his will, Adam Skelly (Snr) left shares of a barque - the "Janet Boyd" to the children of his sisters Margaret and Janet, so there are lots of names that tie the family together.
I've still got to find details of Adam(1842)'s birth in St Vincent - but that's another problem all together!
Thanks again for all your help - off to do some ironing now,
Janet
-
Janet,
Forget the ironing ::)
Get on to the family history and let us know what you find !!
JAP
-
JAP and Janet
Looking at that the Qld BMD site, looks likely that the Robert McGavin who died in 1900 was the son of Matthew McGavin and wife Elizabeth. Never mind, it got us to the right place!
JAP, good to have you back :)
Monica
-
Hi Monica, JAP and all,
Thanks again for your help. Here's an update of what I've found between the ironing and gardening!!
Agnes' birth record - says she was Margaret's 8th child, with 4 sons and 4 daughters, all living. That fits with the information from the census', although I think James may have died as he's 4 in 1851 and then missing in 1861.
I also looked at the Inventory for Robert MacGavin, and you're right - he is the son of Matthew and Elizabeth, still, I've now got the names of all their children too!
I had a go at searching the IGI as per Piglet's help (it's amazing what you can find when you know how to use sites properly!!!) and rang the Liverpool LDS centre - they say I have to go in to request the film, so might have time to do that tomorrow.
Haven't had time to look at the Queensland site in much detail yet, but will hopefully get to that later.
Janet
-
Hi, Thanks again for all your help and pointing me in the Australian direction. I've spent the last couple of days looking at various sites and have found lots of interesting information re the McGavin children.
The Queensland BMD site has given me marriages for Mary Reid McGavin to Henry Marsh and Margaret McGavin to John Murray (who became an MP for Queensland in 1888 according to the Australian Biog site), and I've found info on their children and marriages too.
I've also used http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:STANDARD::pc=PC_899 to find graves, and this site was also great for grouping families (i.e. who was buried in the same plot!).
The Electoral Rolls on Australian Ancestry let me trace their whereabouts between 1901 and 1936. Interestingly, I couldn't find marriages for the McGavin sons, but three of them seemed to work together as Graziers. When I've looked at the film at the LDS I may be able to find more if the sons had middle names - there seem to be a lot of Robert McGavins!!
All this leads me to a few more questions - a) does anyone know if it is possible to see Australian BMD indexes after the 1920's?
b) I've tried to find the McGavin family on Australian passenger lists without any success. I would presume they paid for their own passage as they seem to have been wealthy when in Scotland. Any suggestions as to how I might find them?
c) Is there any access to Australian census records? I haven't been able to find any apart from the Electoral rolls mentioned above.
Janet
-
Hi Fridayjan,
Looked in British Newspapers (Gale Digital Collection) and if you follow this links, 2 members of the family were promoted in the 80th Lanarkshire Rifles.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03bf/
Robert McGavin, Jun, Esq to Captain, and John Adam Skelly McGavin Gent. to lietenant from the Glasgow hearld of 16 th April 1860.
Tom
-
Hi fridayjan,
I could not resist sending you this link, http://www.rootschat.com/links/03bg/ ,
it is anadviert for Mellins Food, check the baby top right, it is a Sydney McGavin Reid, son of a William McGavin Reid, he maybe related somehow.
Tom
-
Hi Tom,
Thanks, I had seen the pieces about John and Robert when I googled their names. At first I thought they were in the regular army but in 1861 they are both listed as Merchant's Clerks, so I presume it was a part-time force??
I tried your link but it says I need an ID to access the database.
That's interesting about the advert - seems too much of a coincidence to have all those names together doesn't it!
Janet
-
Hi fridayjan,
To see the links, just go and register, I got this site from another Rootschatter, and I have spent some time checking things on it. It is free to register, it says it is time limited, but I have been on it for about 3 weeks now.
Tom
-
Talking about links..... ::) , there is also this one for WW2 in New Zealand:
http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/Cenotaph/23318.detail
Monica :)
-
Hi Janet,
Found the website, have never heard of this site before.
I have lots of details for you dates of arrival in Australia, even have a little booklet written about the voyage of the ship that Robert McGavin arrived on - its quite interesting.
Have been to Scotland and dug up a few graves and even the original farmhouse where Robert was born, also found the street where they had a business in Edinborough and his uncle has a huge monument in the Necropolis at Edinborough erected by the citizens he was a great writer for the Presbyterian Church.
More later
Cheers
Elizabeth
-
Hi Elizabeth
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Well, that's a good result for Janet ;D
Monica
-
HI
I have just found this site, and I have been trying to find the birth of my grandfather who was Robert Gibson Reid but have difficulty in understanding the Scottish records being English and now Australian, I think or am pretty sure that he was born in Glasgow and went to England and married after a complicated relationship, his father was William Mcgavin Reid who married Elizabeth Wingfield , again hopefully this is the right Mcgavin they married in 1886 aged 25 and 26 they married in Walthamstow London his father was Robert etc and was a restaurant proprietor any ideas!!
Jackie
-
HI Jackie
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Might be worthwhile putting up a completely separate post for your query so that more people get the chance to see it and help. It might get a bit lost at the end on this post about the McGavins....
In the meantime, what approx year of birth do you have for your grandfather Robert? Nothing is showing for a birth with the middle name Gibson on Scotlands People, probably the birth was registered simply as Robert Reid. Not an uncommon name ::) so the more info you can post that you already have the better.
Monica :)
-
Jackie & Monica,
Jackie, you should be searching in England for Robert's birth. I had a search of FreeBMD (http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl) and found:
Robert Gibson Reid, b. March 1890 Camberwell - Vol. 1d, Page 918
Camberwell is the same district William and Elizabeth (Emily on marriage?) registered their marriage.
hume24
PS. As Monica says, probably best starting a new thread dedicated to the Reids. :) And (added, sorry!) welcome!
-
Hi Hume, I'd just got there also :) I'll leave the post as is:
I can see father William McGavin Reid's birth in Hamilton in 1862, to parents Robert and Mary Gibson. In 1881 the family are showing in Hackney London, with Robert father as you said a Restaurant keeper. Everyone born in Scotland apart from mother Mary who shows as being born in America.
You then have the 1886 marriage in Walthamstow for William to Elizabeth. I also found this birth which is likely for your grandfather in 1890:
Ist Qrt 1890 Robert Gibson Reid in Camberwell, Vol. 1d Pg. 918.
Monica :)
-
Monica, I have only just got back to this, have been working non-stop, thanks for your help it really is William Mcgavin i am interested in, just wanted to say many thanks. Will be back in touch.
Jackie
-
Try searching for McGaan our line is from Sorn and later became McGavin and desend from William McGann 1744 and Janet Parker 1748
-
hi janet,
i have just googled william murray thomson and got two results on the nz historical index there was a william murray thomson who brought a block of land at opunake in 1881 for 340 pounds.there was also a david thomson living at tairua in 1888,it would also appear that there is a dr william murray thomson living in dunedin today.hope this helps
cheers gordon
-
Hi Tom at Tidy books
My great uncle was Sydney Mcgavin Reid and I have just seen your post, but like fridayjan am unable to access the link help please.
Jackie
-
Hi Jackie,
Just saw your message, unfortunately I do no have access to the database anymore, but just in case, someone else does, I will post the full link,
http://find.galegroup.com/bncn/retrieve.do?subjectParam=Locale%28en%2C%2C%29%3AFQE%3D%28tx%2CNone%2C7%29mcgavin%24&contentSet=LTO&sort=DateAscend&tabID=T012&sgCurrentPosition=0&subjectAction=DISPLAY_SUBJECTS&prodId=BNCN&retrieveFormat=MULTIPAGE_DOCUMENT&searchId=R5¤tPosition=35&userGroupName=gdc_british&resultListType=RESULT_LIST&sgHitCountType=None&qrySerId=Locale%28en,,%29:FQE=%28tx,None,7%29mcgavin$&inPS=true&searchType=AdvancedSearchForm&displaySubject=&&docId=&docLevel=FASCIMILE&workId=&relevancePageBatch=BA3201458025&contentSet=BNCN&callistoContentSet=BNCN&docPage=article&hilite=y
Sorry, it is so large, maybe another rootchatter has access and can assist.
Tom
-
There is an easy way round access to Gale for this particular info ;) I've had a look at the Gale entries Tom and the notice originally appeared in the London Gazette, which can be accessed direct online here www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/22376/pages/1436
Monica :)
-
Hello Elizabeth, I think I've finally found you! We were sort of in touch via a Winnipeg connection. Due to hacking issues, her email account was compromised and all contacts deleted.
I have a book that I think you will find VERY interesting. Please email me as (*)
Susan McGavin
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
Robert McGavin jnr's parents have a gravestone in Irvine Old Parish kirkyard. Robert Magavin, Grocer/Merchant died 3 Sep 1853 aged 75, and Mary Reid his wife died 26 Dec 1851. It was erected by their son Rev James McGavin D.D. minister of Dundee. e- mail:- (*))
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php