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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Berkshire => England => Berkshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: worldsender on Sunday 20 April 08 18:21 BST (UK)
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Can anyone in Berkshire help me with my research?
I can trace my Pain ancestry back to Joseph Pain, wheelwright, his wife and Mary of Priest's Bridge, Mortlake, Surrey. They are recorded on the IGI as parents of Thomas Pain, my great great grandfather, christened in 1807, George (1816) and William (1818), all in Mortlake St Mary. Joseph died in 1839 before censuses began and there is no record of his being born in Mortlake. If the age given on his death certificate is correct he was born in 1769 0r 1770 but goodness knows where: there are several Joseph Pain born around that time and around the country but none seem to fit the bill.
His wife, Mary, who died at the age of about 95 in 1873, consistently gives her birthplace as Winkfield (usually recorded as Wingfield), Berks, on censuses 1851-71. Her year of birth is 1778 or thereabouts. On the IGI there are no Marys born in or around 1778 in Winkfield except for Mary Boyce who was apparently the daughter of George Boyce, vicar of Winkfield, and who and was still around in Winkfield in 1841, a spinster living with her brother Thomas.
My first request would therefore be, if anyone has access to other birth records for Winkfield, for any other Marys born around 1778 in Winkfield.
Secondly, for reasons too long to explain here, I believe Joseph and Mary had a daughter Elizabeth, who states on the 1851 Welsh census that she was born in Wingfield (sic), Berks. My second request is therefore if there is any record of a birth or christening of a Elizabeth Pain/Paine/Payne in Winkfield or thereabouts between, let's say 1799 and 1804.
Thirdly, seeing as their (possibly) youngest child was born in Winkfield, it would be convenient to be able to find a marriage in the area for a Joseph Pain to a Mary around the turn of the century and at least before 1807 when I know they were in Mortlake.
Regards,
Chris Pain in Sardinia
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According to my records the parish registers for Winkfield have not been included on the IGI. The entries that you quoted for Mary Boyce are submitted entries and not extracted from the registers. You thus need to find someone with access to the parish registers.
The only place that seems to hold these is Berkshire Record Office
David
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Thanks David, I suspected as much, seeing as a parish of over 2000 people at the time of the earliest censuses should have so few mentions on th IGI.
As a seasoned user here what do you suggest? That I wait for someone with access to the parish rercords offer their help in reply to the message I have post or that I should repeat the request to the various people listed in the Berkshire Look-up Offers section?
Regards,
Chris Pain
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I would suggest that you can only wait for someone who is going to Berks RO to pick up this post. You could go back and modify your original post changing the title to read. "Anyone going to Berks RO - Pain in Winkfield".
This only works satisfactorily on the first post in thread.
David
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Thanks David. Have followed your advice.
Regards,
Chris
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HI
As a descendant of Rev George Boyce I can confirm that the Mary Boyce living at Elm Cottage Winkfield was indeed Rev George Boyce's daughter, she is mentioned in his will (he died 1824)
There are at least a couple of Boyce families around at these times, there is another that I have no conneciton with (yet) from Winkfield and Warfield.
It is now over a year since I have been to Berks RO so would hold out too much hope of myself being able to help you
Bob
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From www.berkshirerecordoffice.org.uk/familyhistory/parish.asp?letter=w&page=3 I see that Winkfield PRs have been transcribed. A copy of the transcript will almost certainly be in Maidenhead Library. I would drop them an email and see if they will do a lookup for you (likely to be much cheaper than the BRO).
Alternatively the LDS www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=593729&disp=Parish+register+transcripts%20%20&columns=*,0,0 have a microfilm of the transcript - perhaps you could use your local FHC and do the lookup yourself.
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Okay Bob, thanks anyway.
I haven't made much progress regarding Joseph Pain since I first posted, though I'm more convinced than ever he was from Winkfield.
Regards,
Chris
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Thanks for the tips newburychap. Only the Family History Catalogue page linked to says the transcripts of Winkfield refer to the period 1577-1670. I noticed something else though. They also have something called "Bishop's transcripts for Winkfield, 1607-1836". Do you think these would contain the same information as the parish records?
Chris
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If you are in London, the SoG has a copy of the transcripts
Bob
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The bishops transcripts should be exactly the same as the original parish register. In practice there are usually a few differences as items get omitted and a few transcription errors occur Also comments made by the vicar are often not found in the bishops transcript. For a few entries they can actually be better than the original register.
They are howver a very good second best particularly if the original register has not survived as seems to be the case for some years at Winkfield.
David
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Thanks for the tips newburychap. Only the Family History Catalogue page linked to says the transcripts of Winkfield refer to the period 1577-1670. I noticed something else though. They also have something called "Bishop's transcripts for Winkfield, 1607-1836". Do you think these would contain the same information as the parish records?
Sorry -didn't notice that the LDS only had part of the transcript.
BTs are fine where they exist - as inaccurate as any other transcript but well worth checking if there is no access to the originals. Their biggest failing is usually missing years. They can also be in very poor condition, got some out at an RO a couple of months back and the assistant who went through them with me couldn't work out why they bothered to keep some of them as they were totally illegible - and these were from the 1850s (going by the dates on those that were semi-legible).
After 1836 any BTs will be at the Oxfordshire RO.
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Which ones, Bob? The Parish Registers or the Bishop's Transcripts? As I said I'm in Sardinia but I go to London 2 or 3 times a year seeing as that's where I come from, but I only manage to stay for a couple of days at a time usually at weekends, which has so far put paid to any idea of a trip to Reading. The SoG sounds a bit more promising, What do they require in exchange for access?
Thanks for the information, David. I think the original record does exist and it's in the Berkshire Records Office. It's just that the LDS appear only to have a few years of them.
Oxfordshire! That's even further than Berkshire, but thanks anyway for the information, Newburychap. I'm interested in a period before 1836 though, initially 1770-1807, and then, if I found out my Pains actually did come from Winkfield, from 1770 backwards.
Regards,
Chris
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You can see the SoG here
http://www.sog.org.uk/index.shtml
They are transcripts of the PRs
From the Catalogue
WINKFIELD : C 1564-1663, M 1564-1670, B 1564-1666 [Typescript.] 1
WINKFIELD : C 1564-1841, index to Winkfield wills 1508-1652, Winkfield wills in the Consistory Court of Sarum, 1588-1851 [Typescript.] 1
WINKFIELD : M 1564-1837, B 1564-1838 [Typescript.]
They do charge for non-members - rather a lot for a whole day though
There are a LOT of records there
1 Hour
£4
4 Hours
£10
Full day (includes the evening on Thursdays)
£18
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You're right, Bob. £18 a day is a bit steep. If I intended going more than once in a year it would be cheaper to join the Society, as I see it's £27 a year for new members resident outside the UK.
Anyway, thanks for the information. It's given me something to chew over. Certainly quicker and easier than a journey to Reading and I'd have to pay my train fare to get there.
Chris
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For a fiver or so the BRO will do the look up for you - save the fare to London as well as the fare to Reading.
However, Maidenhead Library will quite possibly do it for nowt - have you tried them yet?
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For a fiver or so the BRO will do the look up for you - save the fare to London as well as the fare to Reading.
However, Maidenhead Library will quite possibly do it for nowt - have you tried them yet?
I'll certainly bear these other two possibilities in mind before deciding how to spend my hard earned euros.