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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Westmorland => Topic started by: jillruss on Friday 18 April 08 17:03 BST (UK)
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I notice that S&N have Kendal Parish Records available to buy on CD from 1596 to 1631.
Does anyone know if any later Kendal PRs are available to buy anywhere?
Jill
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I expect the Cumbria FHS would be able to tell you. www.cumbriafhs.com/
Or the record office in Kendal?
Andrea
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Thanks Andrea,
I've already checked out the FHS website and what few publications they do have seem to be mostly MIs and censuses.
I double checked the Archives site but, as I thought, they don't seem to have anything - very few Archives/Record Offices are in the publications-selling market.
That's why I wondered if anyone had come across another company like S&N which might just have some Kendal PRs for sale.
I've hit a bloomin great big brickwall with my Troughtons of Kendal. I've even had paid research done by Kendal Archives - they're very nice people but it's very expensive and takes forever! Plus, there's a limit to what you can ask them to look up in - say - one hour. It would be nice to be able to trot along to Kendal in person but I don't live anywhere near (wish I did, it's beautiful!).
Oh well, I'll keep searching - and hopefully S & N will extend their CD coverage of Kendal PRs. :-\
Jill
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Surely the record office will be aware of any published transcripts? I would hope so or they are not doing their job properly!
The look up exchange website may have someone who is prepared to help you. That is rarely mentioned on rootschat but it is a sort of precursor to us and is region specific - even document specific. I offer a school record in Sussex for instance. I have not had a query for a long time but I assume it is still going.
I go up to Cumbria once or twice a year as we have relatives in the area but have just been so it would be a long wait!
Are you not near an LDS centre? That is the obvious way forward as you can order any parish register film and search it there at your leisure.
Andrea
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Hi,
It sounds like your CD is a transcript from a transcript of the PRs, available for reference only in book form at Kendal Local Studies Library.
Book III transcribed by R.N.Birley in 1952, in conjunction with CWAAS, includes baps. for 1596-9, marrs. & burs. 1591-9 and baps. 1607-31. Book IV, also transcribed by R.N.Birley in 1960 on behalf of CWAAS, covers marrs. 1606-31 and burs. from 1606-31. Both books are fully indexed.
Regards
DD
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Hi Everyone,
Just to let you all know that there is a gap in the PRs for Holy Trinity from 1631 to 1679 and the Bishops Transcripts only cover 1673 to 1676 for the same period.
The good news is that I have not yet found any baptisms or marriages that ARE NOT on the family search (IGI) website, give or take the odd mispelling, although this cannot be said for the other chapels within the parish.
The bad news is that I cannot find any other transcripts for Holy Trinity, there are very few for the chapels also, and find this as frustrating as everyone else does.
Keep plugging away!
Best Wishes
Chris
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As far as I am aware the only register transcripts, for Kendal, available in printed form cover
Part I: 1558-1587
part II: marriages and burials and burials 1558-1587, baptisms 1591-1595
part III: baptisms, 1596-9, marriages and burials, 1591-9, baptisms 1607-31;
part IV: marriages and burials 1606-1631;
Cheers
Guy
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Yes, Guy - those are the only ones that I'm aware of.
If Chris is right and there is in fact a gap in the PRs between 1631 & 1679, then it looks as though I'm not going to be able to go any further. The furthest back I have with my Troughtons is William of Fellside who married in 1705. It seems likely that he was baptised prior to 1679 and, anyway, it would be well nigh impossible to tie him in with earlier Troughtons when there's a near 50 year gap. Oh well!
Chris, when you say 'other chapels within the parish', am I correct in assuming you mean other denominations?
Jill
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At the end of the 18th C, Kendal Parish included the outlying villages, which all had their own chapel. Some were improved or rebuilt and became churches in their own right by the implementation of the Parochial registers Act or Rose's Act of 1812, but these are the C.E. chapels I was refering to. I also forgot about the All Hallows chapel on Fellside which William may have gone to.
I should perhaps just clarify that whilst there are not many missing entries on the IGI for Holy Trinity (Parish Church), there are quite a lot missing from these chapels. It is also confusing due to the fact that these chapels transcribed entries annually into the Parish Records at Holy Trinity, and so a lot of IGI entries are stated as Kendal before 1813 (meaning Kendal Parish), where in actual fact the event took place in one of the villages.
I know none of this will help you get any further back Jill, but it may help if you decide to look sideways at other family members.
Chris
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Jill
Have you looked at a2a? There seem to be some references (Quarter sessions and the like) to Troughton weavers in Kendal and some yeomen too. I suspect some of these are yours or related at least.
There is a copy of a 1689 will made by Miles Troughton of Kendal (wife Agnes?)who seems to be leaving his property to his Dowker granddaughters. You could enquire to see if there are any other Troughton wills. A couple of timely wills could get you over any gaps in the parish records and be more interesting as well.
There are also some references to Kendal Troughtons serving in the Lancashire militia in 1803/4.
Sorry if you already know all this stuff.
regards
Deborah
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Thanks, Deborah.
No, I didn't already know any of it - so thanks very much. ;D
I'll take a look on A2A - at least one of my Troughtons was a weaver - I don't know the others' occupations yet. I doubt that they were sufficiently well off to leave wills but it's certainly worth a look. I've already found a shepherd ancestor in Oxfordshire who left a will - not that he had much but I think he was trying to sort out his children who didn't seem to get on with each other!
Jill
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Jill
It may be different in Kendal, but I have lots of wills for Crosby Ravensworth from the 17th century. Most of the people weren't well off. The dividing line seems to be more as to whether they were self-employed or not. They would at least have the tools of their trade to leave. But even labourers might have debts that they wanted to acknowledge (or call in); or a child they wanted to favour; or they just wanted to talk their way into an afterlife.
regards
Deborah
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Good point.
I haven't found anything on A2A - how have you identified the wills that you've found? I don't suppose there's an online index? That would be too good to be true.
I find Cumbria RO a bit expensive for their research so I should imagine they'd charge for a look up in their will index (assuming they have one).
Jill
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The PRO documentsonline site is always worth a look for wills up to 1858 - though it does not cover all probate areas.
Andrea
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Jill
Do you mean how have I determined the existence of my Crosby Ravensworth wills? I had intermittent access to a book that listed all Diocese of Carlisle wills between 1650 and 1750 and wrote down the names of the testators, probate date and location of anyone from CR. Initially, I used that to request wills from Carlisle Record Office. But then I just started to ask about the existence of wills for a particular person based on their burial date.
I'm assuming that Kendal wills are held at Carlisle but I haven't checked that Kendal is in the Carlisle diocese.
Providing you restrict your request to a particular timeframe, place and surname I think you could probably ask about the existence of wills without incurring any charge. Why don't you email them and ask? I think they have a will database/spreadsheet (but not online) so that is not too onerous for them. Getting the photocopies would then cost money but it's a lot cheaper than travelling there. My last will request cost me £35 for copies of 22 wills. That seems like a bargain to me.
As to a2a I just typed Troughton names, or Troughton NEAR40 Kendal into the seach box. (You can also select NorthWest to reduce hits).
regards
Deborah
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Andrea - thanks but if you mean the National Archives site, they don't have much for the North. I've tried searching for Troughton in Kendal - nothing!
Deborah, thanks for the suggestion. I'll try emailing them to enquire about the few Westmoreland ancestors I have who I actually have a burial date for, but I'll be gobsmacked if they don't charge for the answers! :-\
Still, always worth a try.
Jill
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Jill
I've ordered a ton of stuff from Carlisle so it may be that they're happy to look up some stuff for me knowing that the charge for the lookup can be bundled in with the next copying request.
But I think there's a difference between looking up their holdings and looking up something within their holdings!
regards
Deborah
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Carlisle RO have indexed their wills by name, village and year of death or when will proved. If you telephone the RO they will happily do a search of their index over the phone for you. Ask for Lynda!
Gillian
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Gillian - that's great. Thanks for the tip! I've already emailed them, so I'll wait to see if I get an answer and ring them if I don't.
brill! ;D
Jill
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Hello Jill,
I too am a descendant of the Troughton’s of Kendal.
I think we have been in touch before.
From my notes taken from the parish records in Kendal;
William Troughton baptised on the 9th March 1683 {Fellside Kendal]
Son of Thomas and Agnes Troughton.
Thomas Troughton and Agnes Wilson married 1679 September 23rd in Kendal
Could this be the William Troughton married in 1705?
I have a copy of a will of my 4 x great-grandfather; John Troughton 1734 -1805.
He was a weaver, there is a great deal of info in the will, he was quite well off, he even left money to be distributed among the poor of the area; until I found John’s will I thought the Troughton’s were the poor of the area, things were very different to what I believed they were!
Cheers
Carol
Thanks, Deborah.
No, I didn't already know any of it - so thanks very much. ;D
I'll take a look on A2A - at least one of my Troughtons was a weaver - I don't know the others' occupations yet. I doubt that they were sufficiently well off to leave wills but it's certainly worth a look. I've already found a shepherd ancestor in Oxfordshire who left a will - not that he had much but I think he was trying to sort out his children who didn't seem to get on with each other!
Jill
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Wow, Loganberry, that's stopped me in my tracks!! :o
Yes, I think that 1686 baptism must be the William Troughton who married Agnes Harrison in 1705. Their first son was named Thomas - presumably after William's father - and he's described as from Fellside in the marriage entry.
I'm intrigued by your 4xgreat grandfather John (1734 - 1805).
I only have 2 children of William & Agnes - Thomas (1706) and Richard (1707). My line is through Richard's son John (1750), so is your John the son of Thomas?!! :-\
I also assumed that my Troughtons were not too well off so hadn't really pursued the possibility of any wills. If you don't mind, I'd love to know how your John is related to mine and if any of my Troughtons were mentioned in your John's will.
Jill
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Just a quick update.
I had a very speedy reply from Cumbria Archives. They'd looked up my names and made no charge - so that's proved me wrong! :-[
Unfortunately, none of them seem to have left a will, which is no great surprise, but a little disappointing.
With the gap in the PRs 1631-79, has anyone any ideas as to how I might get any further back?
Jill
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Chris,
Your note that the Holy Trinity records include those of outlying chapels might help explain the trouble I have had tracking down the actual church/chapel for a marriage I found on the IGI; John Willan and Anne Shalmerdine on 24 Sept 1758 in 'Kendal'. It's not clear to me if this is a marriage at Holy Trinity or elsewhere. If anyone can help me to locate it, or has further information on either John Willan or Anne Shalmerdine, I'd be very grateful. Thanks
Tish
At the end of the 18th C, Kendal Parish included the outlying villages, which all had their own chapel. Some were improved or rebuilt and became churches in their own right by the implementation of the Parochial registers Act or Rose's Act of 1812, but these are the C.E. chapels I was refering to. I also forgot about the All Hallows chapel on Fellside which William may have gone to.
I should perhaps just clarify that whilst there are not many missing entries on the IGI for Holy Trinity (Parish Church), there are quite a lot missing from these chapels. It is also confusing due to the fact that these chapels transcribed entries annually into the Parish Records at Holy Trinity, and so a lot of IGI entries are stated as Kendal before 1813 (meaning Kendal Parish), where in actual fact the event took place in one of the villages.
I know none of this will help you get any further back Jill, but it may help if you decide to look sideways at other family members.
Chris
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Chris,
Thanks for your personal message to which I didn't seem to be able to reply. Thanks for offering to look the marriage up and I will do as you suggest and start a new topic (I'm very new to this!).
Tish
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Jill,
Are you still interested in Kendal Parish burials?
You may wish to check out www.southwest-familyhistory.com
View the link to South Westmorland Family History on the Resources page.
DD
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DD,
Thanks for your post. Yes, I'm still interested, but unfortunately, the link you give is just to a research service.
Jill
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Yes, but they also seem to be selling Marriages & Burials, and as your topic title is Kendal Parish Records to buy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I just thought . . . . . .
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Thanks, DickieDoodle.
Sorry - didn't mean to sound ungrateful.
:-[
Jill
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Hi jillruss,
Can I suggest you try looking for Troughton wills at Lancashire CRO? The court for probate for southern Cumberland and the southern half of Westmorland was the Diocese of Chester so the wills have landed up further south than most people think they could.
Would you believe there is a website with an on-line index which includes wills!! http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/education/record_office/ I've just done a quick search and found a long list of marriage bonds and wills all for the name Troughton. You need to look for LANCAT in the column on the left hand side of the screen.
I don't have any Troughtons in my family so far as I know but I have people named Fisher who lived on Fellside and most of them seem to be weavers or nailers.
Good luck with the search,
Missprim
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Hi Missprim,
Thanks for your reply - and the link. I'm sorry to be so dense, but I'm having difficulties with the online index :-[.
I put in Troughton under 'Keyword' and all I get is a reference to Dr Who and a couple of other irrelevant items! How did you manage to get all those wills/marriage bonds etc?
Could you possibly talk me through it?
Jill (feeling very stupid!)
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Hi Jillruss,
Sorry I should have explained things a lot better. I normally go into the Lancashire Record Office web site from the home page which has a side column on the left hand side of the screen. Two items from the bottom of the list is "Records Search" click on this and it will open a short menu. The first item below "Overview" is "LANCAT" (short for Lancashire Record Office On-line Catalogue). Click on LANCAT and it will open a new screen with an oblong purple button "Begin a new search". Click on the button and it opens a search facility. I just simply put in the name I'm interested in (e.g.Troughton) and a list will appear several pages long. The first items will be Marriage Bonds in the middle will be Quarter Sessions etc and the end of the list will be the Wills and Admons.
Click on "Full Record" at the left hand side of any item and it will reveal more information. You should be able to tell if the person named is one of "yours" but do be careful. I thought I had found a will for my Elizabeth Fisher but when I ordered a copy it turned out to be someone else!! Lancashire Archive seem to charge at least £5.00 per will whatever the size - one page or many - and it isn't always obvious when there is an Admon rather than a Will.
I've been doing the actions to get the explanation right. There are 5 pages of Troughton items with 50 items to a page, although the last page may be a bit shorter than the others. So that means there are over 50 Wills/Admons listed and something over 100 Marriage Bonds. I hope you find something interesting amongst them.
I'm not sure if the search will work with wildcards. I tried the advanced search when I first found the index but got in the muddle so have stuck to simple search since then using the "and" "or" commands to keep common name lists to a reasonable length; (e.g. "Troughton and Kendal") will give you all the instances of Troughton with Kendal as the place where the event took place or as the place of residence. Don't forget to try any variant spellings it is sometimes amazing what can get thrown up from these on-line indexes.
Best wishes,
Missprim
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Thanks!
If I may say so, beautifully explained - and I shall now enjoy myself looking up Troughton and my other Westmoreland names. Let's hope I can find something to help me that bit further along.
I've bookmarked the search page now so should be okay to go!
Once again, thanks for the link and for your patience with my Doh!!ness (good word, eh!?).
Jill
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Thanks Andrea,
I've already checked out the FHS website and what few publications they do have seem to be mostly MIs and censuses.
I double checked the Archives site but, as I thought, they don't seem to have anything - very few Archives/Record Offices are in the publications-selling market.
That's why I wondered if anyone had come across another company like S&N which might just have some Kendal PRs for sale.
I've hit a bloomin great big brickwall with my Troughtons of Kendal. I've even had paid research done by Kendal Archives - they're very nice people but it's very expensive and takes forever! Plus, there's a limit to what you can ask them to look up in - say - one hour. It would be nice to be able to trot along to Kendal in person but I don't live anywhere near (wish I did, it's beautiful!).
Oh well, I'll keep searching - and hopefully S & N will extend their CD coverage of Kendal PRs. :-\
Jill
Hi,
I know this was a long time ago but I have Troughton's from Kendal in 2 branches of my tree too and was wondering if we might have some ancestors in common or information to share.
The furthest I can get back with any degree of certainly is John Troughton who married Ellen Balderston ( from Wigan) in 1814. I think he was a weaver. Their children were Emma, Alice, John, Richard, William and Eleanor.
Eleanor married into the equally confusing Dover family and then for added fun her son married into the Dowker family. Both families bred like rabbits and ranged across Westmorland, Lancashire and parts of Cumberland and a few pop up in Liverpool and Glasgow.
My other Troughton's are Mary Troughton who I think (but cannot make the link to prove it) was the daughter of the superbly named William Barrow Troughton who married Ann Robinson (Kendal 1795) and had many children including Septimus Troughton whom I think my Mary is lodging with in 1841.
Perhaps we can help each other by sharing /comparing information if you would like.
Regards
B
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I've sent you a PM, Bunbury125.