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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Moray (Elginshire) => Topic started by: lilybell on Sunday 13 April 08 19:39 BST (UK)
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Would someone be willing to do lookups on Scottish census for Joseph Wiseman b ca 1792-1794 wife Margaret Chapman age unknown. 1 child known Janet b 22 Jan 1838 may be more.
Also searching for Edward Wiseman b Jan 1878 Scotland place unknown could belong to Joseph's family.
Thanks in advance.
Lilybell
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1841
joseph wiseman age 45. b. moray. occ. ag.lab.
margaret age 30. b. moray.
james age 15. b. moray.
alexander age 14. b. moray.
joseph age 8. b. moray.
jessy age 2. b. moray(female)
living at ;village of sachuberg
civil parish; bellie
county; moray.
i only have ancestry so cannot see the original image to check whether it has been transcribed correctly.
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1851
joseph wiseman age 59. b. st.andrews,moray. occ. ag.lab. head.
margaret age 55. b. bellie wife.
john age 25. b. raffin,banff. occ. tailor. son.
jessie age 12. b. raffin. daughter.
living at
town;fochabers
civ.par. bellie
county. moray
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the only edward wiseman born 1878 in scotland that i can see is in canada in 1911
edward wiseman . age. 33 b. scotland. occ. watchmaker. working in jewellery store
address; qu appelle,saskatchewan.canada.
i cannot find him before this.
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Hello - from the IGI - www.familysearch.org - all 'extracted' born to a Joseph Wiseman and Margaret Chapman - all of Scotland search 1810 -- 1850
1. James Wiseman ch. 31 Jan 1821, Rathven, Banff
2. Alexander Wiseman ch. 18 Apr 1823, Rathven, Banff
3. John Wiseman ch. 17 Apr 1825, Rathven, Banff
4. Elizabeth Wiseman b. 19 Jun 1827, ch. 09 Jul 1827 Speymouth, Moray
5. Joseph Wiseman b. 17 Mar 1830 ch. 28 Mar, Bellie, Moray
6. Janet Wiseman ch. 26 Jan 1838 Bellie, Moray
:O)
FYI Lilybell - the 1841 Scottish census is free online at www.freecen.org.uk - others in the process of being transcribed.....
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Hello Piglet and Wozzle,
Thank you for your help it is greatly appreciated.
Any information about when Joseph Wiseman and Margaret Chapman died?
Are they on any other census after 1861?
I think that Edward Wiseman b 1878 may be a cousin through James or Alexander's line. Passenger record for
him says born England, 1911Canadian census says born Scotland. Which is right?
Any other help greatly appreciated.
Lilybell :) :) :)
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Lilybell
There are a number of Edward Wisemans in the right age range showing on the English 1881 Census which you can access through www.familysearch.org. I had a quick look through but couldn't easily see a Scottish connection through the parents listed for these Edwards.
In the Scottish 1891 census there are a few interesting entries:
~ one Edward, in the army, b. England in 1873 based at Barracks in Glasgow
~ the other Edward I will post the full entry as I think there are probably some mistranscriptions:
Edward Wiseman 82 (?), head, Mirseyman Leedsmante House (for occupation?!), b. Elgin
Elizabeth Wiseman 29, wife, b. Inveravon, Banff
Edward A Wiseman 6, b. Elgin
Elizabeth C Wiseman 5, b. Elgin
William Wiseman 2, b. Elgin
Henry J Wiseman 5 Mos, b. Elgin
Elizabeth Wilson 19, servant
Address: Scottsbank, Elgin, Moray
~ the third Edward has an earlier birth year:
Alex Wiseman 85, Inspector Of Poor, b. Drainie
Jane Wiseman 73, b. Urquhart, Moray
Edward B Wiseman 24, Assistant Registrar, b. Drainie, Moray
Address: No 85 Clifton Rd, Drainie Moray
The English soldier Edward doesn't show in 1901 but the other two Edwards do. What is the date for your Edward's ship crossing?
Monica :)
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Edward immigrated to Canada June 1907. His profession was watchmaker. He was 31 years.
Wish I had more information but believe he had a connection to Joseph Riach who married Jessie Wiseman.
He was boarding with Joseph on the 1911 Canadian Census for Saskatchewan. He worked in a jewllery shop
in Saskatchewan.
Lilybell
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There is a possible for Edward in the English 1901 Census. There is a 22 yrs old (b. 1879) Edward at home with family in Fulham London. He shows as a Pawnbrokers Assistant (I'm 99% sure it says Pawnbrokers - the enumerator has chosen to make some marks on the section over the Paxxxrokers!). This would fit with your Edward's occupation in Canada where he shows as working in a jewelery shop.
The 1901 entry for the family in Fulham, London - all the children showing as born in London:
Amelia Wiseman 61, b. Widgrave Suffolk
Amelia Wiseman 34, dressmaker
Edward Wiseman 22, pawnbrokers assistant
David Wiseman 19, clerk
Walter G Wiseman 19, diamond mount xxx
The family in 1891 with father John, in Fulham:
John Wiseman 56, shoemaker, b. Aylsham, Norfolk
Amelia Wiseman 51, b. Redgrave, Suffolk
Amelia Wiseman 26, dressmaker
Benjamin Wiseman 14, ironmonger's assistant
Edward Wiseman 12
David Wiseman 10
Walter Wiseman 8
This is the closest I can see with the information you have. Apart from the question mark over England/Scotland, this is a good fit for Edward.
Regards.
Monica
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This looks a likely birth entry for him:
Births July-Sep 1878
Wiseman Edward Chelsea 1a 303
Monica
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Monica,
Thank you for your reply on Edward.
Now if I could only find a connection for Edward to the Wiseman family in Moray then I would know if I have the
right family. May never know without more information on Edward.
Thank you again for your help.
Lilybell
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living at ;village of sachuberg
civil parish; bellie
county; moray.
i only have ancestry so cannot see the original image to check whether it has been transcribed correctly.
It certainly hasn't! 'sachuberg' is a very creative transcription for Fochabers. I've seen a few weird versions, but that beats the rest into a cocked hat.
FreeCen has a better transcription http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
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Edward Wiseman 82 (?), head, Mirseyman Leedsmante House (for occupation?!), b. Elgin
Elizabeth Wiseman 29, wife, b. Inveravon, Banff
Edward A Wiseman 6, b. Elgin
Elizabeth C Wiseman 5, b. Elgin
William Wiseman 2, b. Elgin
Henry J Wiseman 5 Mos, b. Elgin
Elizabeth Wilson 19, servant
Address: Scottsbank, Elgin, Moray
This Wiseman family is one of mine. Edward Alexander Wiseman was born in 1884, married Jane Ann McBean in 1917 and died in 1951, all in Elgin. So you can definitely cross him off your list of possibles.
Incidentally Edward Sr was 32, not 82, and the mistranscribed occupation should read Nurseryman, Seedsman and Florist.
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There is a 22 yrs old (b. 1879) Edward at home with family in Fulham London.
The same family is in Fulham in 1881. Father John, bootmaker, born Norfolk 1834/5, children including Edward, 2, born Chelsea.
If your Edward was aged 31 when he travelled in 1907, that suggests a birth date in 1875/6.
http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp tells me that Joseph Wiseman died on 22 February 1876 in the parish of Bellie. His wife Margaret Chapman died on 2 September 1878. In the same grave are his son Joseph who died on 22 April 1907; his daughter-in-law Annie Duncan who died on 7 December 1904; his daughter Elizabeth who died on 14 November 1865; his grandson William who died on 4 February 1879; and his granddaughter Margaret who died on 13 March 1866.
If you go to Scotland's People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk you can download an image of Joseph's death certificate which should tell you the names of his parents.
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Hello Forfarian,
Thank you for the website for Joseph Wiseman and his family.
I have passed it on to the gentelman who I have been helping.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Greetings from a very wet Calgary
Lilybell
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I've been looking at Edward Wisemans born in England between 1871 and 1881. There were none born in Scotland during that period.
14 Edward Wisemans are in the FreeBMD index of births. Of these, 6 died before 1881. There was another one who died in infancy, but whose birth is not in the index. The remaining eight, plus two whose births are not in the index, are all in the 1881 census.
1. Born Brentford, 1872/Q1/ in London aged 9
2. Born unknown 1872/3, in London aged 8
3. Born Wetherby 1873/Q3, in Yorkshire aged 7
4. Born Huddersfield 1874/Q1, in Yorkshire aged 7
5. Born Bramley 1875/Q3, in Yorkshire aged 5
6. Born Whitechapel 1876/Q4, in London aged 4
7. Born unknown 1877/8, in Yorkshire aged 3
8. Born Chelsea 1878/Q3, in London aged 2
9. Born Swaffham 1878//Q4, in Norfolk aged 2
10. Born Stockton 1879/Q2, in County Durham aged 2
Assuming that your Edward's date of birth is between 1875 (per ship's passenger list) and 1879 (age in 1911 census) you have six possibles.
The 1901 census lists 7 EWs of this age who are probably as follows
No 2 in London, aged 28, fruiterer, greengrocer and coal merchant
No 3 in Yorkshire, aged 28, grocer's assistant
No 4 in Yorkshire, aged 27, tailor
No 5 in London, aged 25, factory stoker
No 6 in London, aged 25, carman
No 8 in London, aged 22, .... assistant
No 10 in Stockton, aged 22, baker.
No sign of No 1, No 7 or No 9. There are no deaths in the English or Scottish indexes which would account for them and none of them is in Scotland. As your soldier was aged 18 in the 1891 census, he would be No 1 or No 2.
Looking at the occupations seems to strengthen the likelihood that No 8 is indeed yours.
HTH
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Found this old message when doing a Google Search. I am researching the Wiseman family for a friend's daughter who is a direct descendant of William Wiseman c Elgin 1 Dec 1827, the father of Edward Wiseman mentioned below.
I am particularly interested in finding out more about Joseph Wiseman, the grandfather of this William Wiseman. Can you help at all Forfarian or anyone else?
Thanks
Edward Wiseman 82 (?), head, Mirseyman Leedsmante House (for occupation?!), b. Elgin
Elizabeth Wiseman 29, wife, b. Inveravon, Banff
Edward A Wiseman 6, b. Elgin
Elizabeth C Wiseman 5, b. Elgin
William Wiseman 2, b. Elgin
Henry J Wiseman 5 Mos, b. Elgin
Elizabeth Wilson 19, servant
Address: Scottsbank, Elgin, Moray
This Wiseman family is one of mine. Edward Alexander Wiseman was born in 1884, married Jane Ann McBean in 1917 and died in 1951, all in Elgin. So you can definitely cross him off your list of possibles.
Incidentally Edward Sr was 32, not 82, and the mistranscribed occupation should read Nurseryman, Seedsman and Florist.
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Found this old message when doing a Google Search. I am researching the Wiseman family for a friend's daughter who is a direct descendant of William Wiseman c Elgin 1 Dec 1827, the father of Edward Wiseman mentioned below.
I am particularly interested in finding out more about Joseph Wiseman, the grandfather of this William Wiseman. Can you help at all Forfarian or anyone else?
Hello Learmonth
My interest in William Wiseman (1827-1879) is because his wife was my second cousin four times removed. Therefore I have not attempted to research his forebears at all.
However I do have access to research carried out some years ago by a direct descendant of William, and I am happy to exchange notes.
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joseph wiseman and margaret chapman were my ggg grandparents and i have lots of information
about this couple .what would you like to know?
molly