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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wicklow => Topic started by: Murphy0507 on Sunday 06 April 08 04:03 BST (UK)
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Looking for information on Patrick Joseph Murphy b ~1888 and family.
Married Agnes Cotter -1925
Parents John Murphy and Catherine Hipple
Brothers/Sisters - James, William, Thomas, John, Winnifred, Elizabeth, Alice, Margaret.
Thanks.
Mike.
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Additional Information.
Patrick Joseph Murphy b Feb. 23rd., 1888. d. Jan. 19th., 1932
Married Agnes Cotter b. Mar. 5th., 1898, d. Dec. 12th. 1997
Parents John Murphy b. 1854, d 1913 and Catherine Hipple b. 1857
Grandparents - J or L Murphy and Catherine Kavanagh - John Hipple and Catherine Hayden.
Brothers/Sisters
James - A councillor
William,
Thomas - known as "the Damager" worked for the railway and lived on Albert Walk
John (Jack) - Teacher at the Sligo Technical School
Winnifred (Bagnall), married Harry Bagnall
Elizabeth (Rochford or Rochfort),
Alice,
Margaret
This line in Bray since before 1800. Many of the deceased buried in St. Peter's Old Graveyard.
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Hello,
I am James, my grandfather was James Murphy and he was on the Bray Council.
My mother was Catherine Murphy.
I have just started research on my family and I believe that the name Hipple is important if I can sort out the connection.
All information will be welcome.
Regards,
Jim
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Was your Grandfather James of Sidmonton Road and known as Jem?
My Grandfather Patrick was his brother.
We have gaps obviously in our research but an awful lot of good information as well. Not yet confirmed but he name Hipple may actually be Hipwell or it got changed along the way. We have conflicting information.
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My grandfather lived in Sidmonton Avenue, but I believe he may have also been in Sidmonton Road at some earlier time.
I am not certain about the nickname Jem.
The Doyle family also lived in Sidmonton Avenue.
The name Hipple has been long known to my family.
As a youngster I visited relatives in Albert Walk.
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Just confirmed with my father, James (Jem) Murphy, Bray Councillor lived on Sidmonton Avenue.
His brother Tom lived on Albert Walk and worked for the Railway. Tom had 2 sons, William and Laurence.
I believe my great-uncle James married Anastasia and had at least 3 daughters, Sadie, Kathleen and Peggy.
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Hello James, my brother Michael has been in contact with you. I just want to confirm that we have the marriage record of John Murphy and Catherine Hipwell (spelled Hipwell) married August 16, 1874 in the Roman Catholic Chapel in Little Bray. We were also familiar with the name Hipple but, have been able to confirm the spelling. Is it possible that they changed the name at some point?
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Hello,
Thanks for the info. There is some mystery about the name Hipple or possibly Hipwell.
In our records the name Hipple is used. I wonder if there was a mistake made at the time of writing the original certificate?
This name recently showed up on the web as follows;
The death has occurred of Niney (Nina) HIPPLE of Greystones, Wicklow
At Belmont House Nursing Home, Stillorgan. Reposing at Thomas Murphy and Sons Funeral Home, Boghall Road, Bray. Removal at 9.30 this Saturday morning to St. Killian's Church, Blacklion for 10am Funeral Mass, followed by burial in Radford Cemetery, Greystones.
Date published; Saturday, August 09, 2008
Date of death; Thursday, August 07, 2008[/color][/font]
There may be more Hipple's still in the Wicklow area.
Hope this will be of interest.
Regards, Jim
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Hi
I`m from Bray, My mothers maiden name is Hipple.
Niney Hipple was my mothers Aunt.
Whilst researching my own hipple tree (the only ones left in ireland) I came across yours and hoping they might intersect, I followed it.
I have been able to track your tree back to John Hipple and Catherine Hayden.
Their Children's birth records each state their fathers surname & their surnames As Hipple. i.e.
3 children: James Hipple, John hipple & Catherine hipple.
however ... Each of Catherines Children has her second name spelt a different way.
i.e. Thomas Hipple, William Joseph Hippell, Elizabeth Mary Hipwell, Patrick Joseph Hipwell.
i think this introduced the confusion. with hipwell/hipple.
I`m pretty sure Hipple is the original correct name though. I have access to digital transcriptions of the birth records in Bray for the period. while there may be transcription errors Its probably more to do with the legibility of the original documents themselves.
I`m interested to know if any of you have managed to trace back further than John Hipple & Catherine Hayden
Kind Regards
Neil.
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Hi my names kieran murphy my grandfather was patrick joseph murphy I'm not sure if he was named after his father or grandfather but he was from co.wicklow..he told me once there family had the nickname gally because there was so many murphys..I know a few of his siblings, william, brendan, brian he has sisters but I never got the chance to know there names..is he any relation to your patrick joseph murphy.
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Welcome to RootsChat murphykieran
It is a couple of years since this topic was started and the contributors have also not been online for a while - they will however receive a notification of your post if they still have active email addresses.
This site does not allow references to the living or potentially living,
but if the people to whom you refer were born over 100 years ago, or are deceased,
if you include approx dates for significant events, births, marriages, etc. a lookup could be done for you.
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I'm not sure if this thread is still active.
William Murphy, brother of Patrick Joseph, was my paternal grandfather.
He married Margaret Kelly, also of Bray, in 1913. They had an only child, John, my father, in 1914 (d. 1980). William died in 1916, when my father was just 2 years old. In turn I'm an only child, so the line was at some risk!
I remember visiting the Sidmonton Avenue Murphys when I was very young - back in the mid 1960s. There were two rather grand old ladies there but I'm afraid I can't recall their first names.
My father John and his mother Margaret are buried in St Peters in Bray.
I can't find William's burial place. He died at the Meath hospital in Dublin with TB it seems. Any information on his burial place would be welcome.
In any event, I know of no living relatives on my father's side at all, and would be delighted to know of any of the people on this chain.
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Hipwell in 1874 marriage register
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633819#page/18/mode/1up
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Hi Ajfm
Welcome to RootsChat;
It is a couple of extra years since murphykieran joined back in Oct 2015 and I then commented that it was a couple of years since this topic was started and the contributors had also not been online for a while - they will however receive a notification of your post if they still have active email addresses.
Murphy0507 commented previously "I believe my great-uncle James married Anastasia and had at least 3 daughters, Sadie, Kathleen and Peggy." I wonder are these the ladies that you remember meeting!
I have no connection to the family but have relatives also buried in St. Peter's in Little Bray
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I'm sure that you have probably had a look but FTR
1901 census shows John and Kate MURPHY with seven children at
house 4 in Ravenswell Row (Bray Town, Wicklow) - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Bray_Town/Ravenswell_Row/1810441/)
1911 John and Kate MURPHY with six children at
10 in Park Road (Bray No.1, Wicklow) - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wicklow/Bray_No_1/Park_Road/891399/)
states married 37 years and had 12 children of which 10 were still alive
1875 James
1876 John
1878 Catherine m. Arthur MOYNA Oct 18 1899
1879 Winnifred m Henry/Harry BAGNALL Jun 12 1906
1881 Margaret (1) d. before 1889
1883 Thomas m. Elizabeth FitzGERALD Sept 09 1916
1884 William m. Margaret KELLY Apr 23 1913
1886 Elizabeth m. John ROCHFORD Nov 12 1907
1888 Patrick Joseph m. Agnes COTTER Sept 30 1925
- Agnes remarried Thomas HOLLAND Jun 05 1939
1889 Margaret (2)
1891 Mary Alice
plus one other that died before 1911
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This is very helpful - I had seen the census data with the direct descendants, but didn't have so many marriage details.
You will have gathered from my original post that as an only child of an only child, and with my father never knowing his father because the latter died so young, there was little collective memory in my family of the ancestors.
I just recently managed to trace my grandfather's line using the civil records and the two census databases, so this is all quite new to me. I don't get back often to Ireland often and do have not had a chance to get to offline materials or parish records.
I'm pretty certain that Sadie was one of the two grand dames!
Many thanks for the reply.
Anthony Murphy
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These sites should be of help if you wish to look further and are free
www.irishgenealogy.ie which has civil records and some church records
http://registers.nli.ie/ which has all the Catholic church records that are at the National Archive
This is for various years depending on the church and what survived and was passed on
Unfortunately it doesn't have a search facility but if you find a birth record you can look around that date for a baptism - baptisms sometimes show a record of marriage also
e.g.
Thomas born Jan 05 1883 Civil record LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02751/2010756.pdf) #392
He was baptised on February 11 1883 in Bray - LINK (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633719#page/180/mode/1up) #1454
This shows his date of birth as February 05 1883 which is probably more correct and that he married Elizabeth FitzGERALD on Sept 09 1916 in that church. Not all marriages were recorded but it is helpful when you find them!
Marriage record - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09787/5552976.pdf) #189
in case you catch the research bug!
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I am not related to this Murphy family but have been working on their family tree because of a political connection to my family.
The two sisters in Sidmonton Avenue were most likely Margaret d 1992 and Sara (Sadie) d1987. Their parents were James Murphy 1875-1938 and Anastasia Doyle 1876-1951. James was a Railway carpenter and was Vice Chairman of Bray Urban Council when he died.
William Murphy from 11 Lauderdale Bray was a railway ticket collector. He died in the Meath Hospital on the 5th of September 1916. His funeral mass was held in the Holy Redeemer Church, Bray on the 8th . He is most likely buried in St Peter's Graveyard Bray.
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Thanks Sparksss67.
I'm pretty sure the sisters that I visited with as a boy were indeed Sadie and Margaret.
May I ask what's the nature of the political connection to which you referred? I didn't think my family had any real political connections, so the fact that James was involved in local politics was new for me.
Anthony
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Hello Anthony
My great grandfather was Edward Byrne (MBUDC, MWCC, and PC) from Bray, and worked as a railway store keeper in Westland Row station. He was a nationalist and was politically active from Parnell’s time onward, being involved with the Home Rule Movement (supporting Redmond) and the Labour party from its start. James Murphy was a near neighbour and close friend of Edward Byrne.
James was Edward’s best man at his wedding in 1899. These two men were the closest of friends for the remainder of their lives. They were very active members of the NUR and were both elected to Bray Council in 1920 as Labour candidates. They were also founding members of the Bray and and Labour Trades Council, founded in 1917. They appear in a number of photos alongside each other during their years working together. I have some photos of Edward and James together from 1919 and 1934.
I have also created a Powerpoint presentation following Edward Byrnes life. It was very important to me to acknowledge James Murphy’s contribution to their success and their achievements in the betterment of conditions of railway workers and the working class people of Bray and Wicklow. James’s brother in law, James Rochford, was also politically active at the time. I would be more than happy to share my findings with you if you would like to have them. It is also nice to know that Edward Byrne and James Murphy are buried within meters of each other in St Peter’s cemetery.
Mark Murphy, Bray.
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Hello Mark
It is great to meet you through this forum, and I would indeed be delighted to learn more of your findings regarding our two ancestors and the historical context that you described. The photos you mentioned would be fascinating. I understand that we are not supposed to share contact details on the open part of the forum, so I will send you a separate message with my email address.
There are quite a number of echoes of what you mentioned in what limited information I had on my father's family. For example, his father - William, one of James' brothers - also worked on the railway, as a signal man and later as a ticket inspector. As I noted on one of the early posts, he died aged 33 of TB, just three years after getting married to my grandmother, Margaret Kelly. It was left to her to raise my father. She had not worked outside the home previously, but it seems that she joined the railway company also and worked at the old Harcourt Street station in presumably an administrative role. While one should not speculate without some concrete facts, it would not be surprising if James, perhaps in combination with Edward, had sought to secure this type of role for his recently-bereaved sister-in-law.
My father must also have kept up a relationship with his uncle James. Sarah and Margaret were his cousins and I know he visited them (including with me) over the years. Given the family circumstances I described, I suspect that James would have had a significant influence on my father when my father was growing up. For one, my father was a skilled carpenter (though that was not what he worked at). There were a number of carpenters in the Murphy family, including James, and I suspect that my father would have learned some of his skills from James. My father was also a committed trade union member all of his life, again perhaps reflecting the influence of James, and indeed Edward.
You also mentioned Anastasia Doyle, James' wife. There may have been other relatives on the Doyle side that my father knew, as I have vague recollections of other references. I also note that a "Maggie Doyle" was one of the witnesses at both the weddings of James and my grandfather William.
A couple of additional questions -
1. I'm still in the early stage of researching my grandmother's line - Margaret Kelly. Have you come across other references to Kellys in Bray that may be related to either of our families?
2. At some point after William's death, Margaret moved to Dublin and raised my father in a house at 77 Bath Avenue. There was a very strong relationship with a family of Coates who lived nearby in Irishtown, and I met some of the latter when I was a child. I don't know if the relationship with the Coates was established then or whether there was some pre-existing contacts from Bray. Have you come across any Coates in Bray in your researches?
Finally I should ask where your own Murphy family name connection comes from? You said you weren't related to my side.
many thanks the help you have already given!
Anthony
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Just a quick look for you this morning
Margaret KELLY gave her address as Lauderdale Terrace at the time of her marriage in 1913; her father was a painter named Michael KELLY
I think that this is them on the 1901 census LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Bray/Newtownvevay/1811839/)
at house 1 in Newtownvevay (Bray, Wicklow)
Michael KELLY died Oct 07 1906 at the Meath Hospital; address Bray; aged 56; a Painter - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05680/4600574.pdf) #375
Esther KELLY died May 23 1910 at Lauderdale Tce, Bray; aged 65; widow of a House Painter - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05429/4517942.pdf) #345
Michael KELLY m Esther McADAMS on Sept 08 1862 - LINK (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633720#page/14/mode/1up)
Michael's parents were Michael KELLY and Mary KELLY
Esther's parents were John McADAMS and Catherine CONDON
There were at least seven children in the family but there may have been more
Michael b 1863 LINK (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633719#page/52/mode/1up) to baptism #778
Teresa b 1865 LINK (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633719#page/65/mode/1up) to baptism #981
Catherine Kelly b 1869 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03397/2246175.pdf) to Civil Record #406;
She married Peter COATES on May 06 1889 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10734/5913982.pdf) #57
Family on 1911 census LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/South_Dock/Wentworth_Place/87549/)
Esther KELLY b 1873 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03185/2167775.pdf) to Civil Record #48
Jane KELLY b 1877 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03000/2099557.pdf) to Civil Record #448
John Joseph KELLY b 1879 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02921/2070246.pdf) to Civil Record #235; LINK (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633719#page/155/mode/1up) to baptism record
Margaret Mary b 1881 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02831/2037947.pdf) to Civil Record #107
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Edward Byrne was one of the top men in the railway benevolent society (or various names for same) around this time. It is very likely that they helped William's widow to get back on her feet.
The Coates family from Bray were also friends of the Byrnes and most likely the Murphys, they were involved with the AOH in Bray. Christopher Coates was tragically killed in an explosion in the electrical works in Bray in 1912. This is the same Coates family as mentioned in a previous post.
To answer your question regarding my own Murphy surname. My mother is a Byrne, a granddaughter of Edward. Our Murphy family came from Greenan, Rathdrum area.
Mark
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Mark
Thank you so much for all of your help. I had a little of the information on the Kellys already, but you have added a significant amount. I see the link with the Coates also through my grandmother's sister, and it is interesting that it was indeed a Bray connection after all.
Looking forward to remaining in touch on all of this.
Anthony
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Mark
The Coates family are indeed linked to the ones that my grandmother and father knew in Irishtown/Ringsend. I have the Little Bray cemetery records and there a series of Coates buried there with final address as 12 Gordon Street, Ringsend. This is exactly the same address as listed for my grandmother Margaret Murphy nee Kelly - James sister-in-law. The Coates and my family were indeed very close.
By the way, the cemetery listing for the 1912 Coates is for a Peter rather than Christopher -
"Grave: BA30 Name: Coates, Peter Electric Works, Bray 10th July 1912 12th July 1912"
all the best
Anthony