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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Jools65 on Thursday 03 April 08 16:35 BST (UK)
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Hi i am looking for William Duffield in the 1871 census he would have been around aged 11 living with his father, what looks like Samuel ( occupation- Shoemaker) on Williams marriage certificate to Mary Ann Herold or Herald.
In 1881 William was living with Mary Ann his occupation was a Cork Cutter in Bethnal Green/Whitchapel area.
I am frustrated i cannot find him in 1871 along with his siblings and parents. Can you help me thx Julie
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Can you post another census reference that you do have ???
It might help to find the family .
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The 1881 census shows his place of birth as London City.
RG11 444 84 12
Did you notice they are living next door to a whole clan of Herald/Harolds?
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One possibility for 1871 is a 10 yr old William Duffield, born Stepney London, who is boarding at a school in st MArgarets Cliffe, Kent.
RG10 1008 57 13
Might be a bit posh for a cork-cutter to be though
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Did you notice they are living next door to a whole clan of Herald/Harolds
Yes I did must be the in laws ;D
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my next attempt (and I think better,) for 1871 is
RG10 334 26 46
Where an 8 yr old William (bit young) but born London, is with his grandparents Francis and Elizabeth Duffield at 28 Harrogate Rd Hackney
(Ancestry index says son, but image I believe is g/son - they ae too old to be his parents anyway!)
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I have been squinting at grandad Francis's occupation for ages, determined to make it out. Was it Vietnam? Veteran?
At last I think I have got it!
Veterinary Surgeon!!!!!!!!!!!
Probably not relevant to the post, we dont even know if this is the correct young William, but I was so pleased with myself for getting it, I had to tell someone!!
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Well done :D
If we knew who his mother and siblings were it would help if they have been mis transcribed.
Also the fathers name is not certain.... he may be deceased at the time of the marriage..... they didn't always get it right ::)
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Well, I have found Francis and Elizabeth in 1861 and Francis with presumably a first wife MAry in 1851, but no sign of a son Samuel.
So that one is not looking so good after all.
Of course he could be the illeg son of a daughter and just made up th ename Samuel for a dad....
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illeg son of a daughter and just made up thename Samuel for a dad
Yes.... got one of those myself ::)
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No birth on FreeBMD for a William Duffield around 1860 born London City.
There are loads of them, so risky to pick one out, but if you like risks, the best I could find is
Jan/Feb/Mar 1863
Bethnal grn Reg disr
1c 349
with fits in with the 8 year old.
(Julie - I see you are online - are you following all of this? !!)
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Hi yes im following all of this, just getting my bearings thanks for all your help. i might take a gamble with your last message and go for ordering the birth cert. So not much luck with samuels father either ive tried and tried. thankyou for trying regards julie
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Tricky one this, 'cos if that birth cert does prove that its owner is a child of one of Francis and Elizabeth or Francis and Mary's children, it still does not prove it is the same chappie who married Harold/Herald.
Nor does it disprove it though, as if he was illegitimate he could well have invented Samuel.
Such are the joys of family history!!
Have you got him on 1891 /1901? Just in case he has an aged parent with him or something helpful.
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Grrr
havnt got him in 1891, but in looking have found a 28 yr old William Duffield bn Bethnal Green, unmarried.
So that looks like who that birth is for.
And maybe even the grandson on 1871 census, who knows.
He is listed as son of John and Elizabeth Gray - guess he is Elizabeth's son from a previous marriage.
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John and Elizabeth Grey are married in 1881 and 1871, but no sign of William.
Prob 'cos he is with granny in 1871!
But this one is looking less likely, seeing him in 1891
(btw - both John and Elizabeth Grey, and Grandparents Duffield, all bn Norfolk. But living in Bethnal green area)
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Hi yes i have him in 1891 and 1901 as a cork cutter but no parents with him at all. I have Williams father on Williams marriage cert as a shoemaker the same as the heralds occupation as a shoe maker as well living next door to the inlaws.
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OK everyone - cancel the last million posts!
I can now prove that 'our' William is not the same as the one born 1863 in Bethanl Green who I have been following!
I have found 'our' one in 1891
RG12 280 132 22
with Mary Ann wife, dtr CAroline Elizabeth aged 10 and son Charles aged 1.
William says he was born in east Smithfield London, is 31 and is still a cork cutter
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And to complete the picture, 1901
RG13 331 25 41
He is 41, so consistant with age
and says born Whitechapel this time
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yes he changed his area of birth on the census in 1881 to city, london thats why its hard for me to find wiliiam in 1871 1861. now we are both frustrated
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How about this birth.
William Duffield June q. 1860 Whitechapel 1c - 379.
Its the only one near on the free bmd..... checking thier statistics the years 1859 - 1862 are showing as complete.
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Thanks i will take a gamble
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Well done, patrish,
I just took rather a roundabout route to get there! But easy once we had Whiechapel as a possible birth place!
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Hi
Just come back to this one, as I gather that the Whitechapel birth cert did not have a father called Samuel.
I would not be hasty in dismissing that though. It appears to be the only birth at the right time for a William Duffield, and he is consistant wih his age.
I think we are in danger of putting too much emphasis on the "Samuel" name from the marriage cert. This is so easy to do, as it is the first piece on info that you found, and so now are looking for everything else to tie in with that.
BUT - if that info was wrong, then nothing will tie in!
So easy to do - happens with censuses too, I've done it myself. You find Joe Bloggs born in Little town in 1861, so you search for ever for him in 1871, rejecting the Joe Bloggs born in Big Town, saying "thats wrong, mine was born in Little town". If you broaden your outlook, eventually you find Joe in all the other censuses with Big Town as his birthplace, and accept that the only one that was wrong was the first one you found.
Now - it could be like that with William. Maybe the father on the marriage cert is wrong. Perhaps his father was something else, and either a) was known as Samuel so that is what William said or b) the registrar thought he said Samuel and wrote it down wrong c) the next wedding recorded had a father Samuel, and it got copied incorrectly d)William was illegitimate and just made up the name Samuel (very common).
OK - lets go back to the 1860 Whitechapel birth. Who was the father? Was he a shoemaker? Who was the mother?Can we find that William in 1861 and 1871? And when we do is there anything which either rules out, or rules in, whether or not he could be 'your' William?
BTW When your William marries, who are the witnesses? Are they Heralds, or could they be William's rellies?
Just some thoughts, but I definitely think the Whitechapel William birth needs pursuing till it can definitely be ruled out.