RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: grandpa on Thursday 03 April 08 10:59 BST (UK)
-
Hello everyone,
I am looking for help to find my grandfathers 1st wife. Walton Harry EUSTON married Ella Gertrude SMITH in 1917 as a widower 17.1.1914. Ella SMITH was his 2nd wife (it seems) but I cannot find a marriage or death for his 1st wife. It is possible he was married in UK and came to Victoria in 1903 (but can't find immigration) or that he married in Victoria (or another state I suppose) post 1903 when he is supposed to have arrived in Victoria.
I know all about Walton until his death in 1930 but need help with the 1st wife.
Kind Regards
Peter Euston
-
Here you go, Peter.....
Walt Hy EUSTON married Ruby Easton PRIGG in 1913
Ref = 8406
I'll look for her death for you.....
.....dee
-
just as well - no sign of him as a Walton in the UK !
::)
-
Now this is strange.....
There's a birth in 1913 at IWOOD of a Wm Hy EUSTON to a Walt Hy and the mother is given as Mabel Jane LINES
Ref = 4772
And I can't see a death for Ruby Euston . :-\
I'll keep looking.....
....dee
-
I'm finding rather strange things all round......
The only death of a Ruby with father Prigg was in 1958 and she was then a Birch and aged 65.
But there is also the death of a Mabel Easton Harvey aged 84 in 1961, with mother given as Eliza Prigg.
So did he divorce the first wife, and what was her name?
I'll see if I can find any more on the child Wm Hy that was born 1913.
......dee
-
Another birth
Geo Eric Lines ENSTON
born 1911 Prn Reg no 14311
Father: Walt Hy Mother: Mabel Jane Lines
Raylen
-
Oh well done, Raylen...
Just to add to the confusion, a reverse search of the marriage finds that Ruby Easton Prigg married Walter Hy Euston.
There are very few results for Euston at all.
.....dee
-
Ah....
Ruby ENSTON married Albt BIRCH in 1934
Ref = 12093
.....dee
-
Peter,
I don't quite know how we are going to sort this lot out.....because now I have found the following....
Ronald ENSTON born in 1917 at COLAC
Father = Harry Walt & Mother = Ruby Easton PRIGG
ref = 2473
It would make life much easier if they weren't transcribed using abbreviations.
.....dee
-
the 1919 Electoral Roll
has Walton Harry Euston living in in Fertree Gullly
along with a
Ella Gertrude Euston
regards Jenn
-
No sign of him before that, Jenn?
....dee
-
But there is also the death of a Mabel Easton Harvey aged 84 in 1961, with mother given as Eliza Prigg.
......dee
dee,
I think we can discount this one
Mabel Easton Johnstone b 1877 married Henry Harvey 1904
Raylen
-
No Dee no sign of him
an Ruby Euston is off by herself home duties.
Jenn
-
But there is also the death of a Mabel Easton Harvey aged 84 in 1961, with mother given as Eliza Prigg.
......dee
dee,
I think we can discount this one
Mabel Easton Johnstone b 1877 married Henry Harvey 1904
Raylen
Thanks Raylen....that eliminates one from the puzzle......
.....dee
-
Guess we've all seen the marriage of Walton Harry Euston to Ella Gertrude Smith in 1917.
Does Peter mean that he had been a widower since 17.1.1914 I wonder? Need to ask if he has that marriage certificate..... :-\
.....dee
-
The only death of a Ruby with father Prigg was in 1958 and she was then a Birch and aged 65.
......dee
Just to get this straight in my head :D
Ruby Easton Prigg born 1891 Colac
Father -Jos Mother- Eliza Jane Richardson
Walt Hy EUSTON married Ruby Easton PRIGG] 1913
Ruby Easton Prigg married Walter Hy Euston]
Ruby ENSTON married Albt BIRCH in 1934
Ref = 12093
Ruby Birch died 1958 65 Albe
Father: Joseph J Prigg Mother: Eliza Jane Richards
Ref no 7862
Raylen
-
That sums it up nicely, Raylen.
And Ruby Euston is living alone in 1919, while Walton Harry is with his second wife Ella Gertrude.
But......who is Mabel Jane Lines? ???
.....dee
-
Victorian electoral roll 1936
Ruby Birch Home duties
Albert Birch Railway employee
both at 179 Kerferd Road Albert Park
Raylen
-
From: www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch.aspx
Ronald ENSTON born 22/2/1917 Colac
Next of kin - Ruby Birch
Raylen
-
Victorian electoral roll 1936
Ruby Birch Home duties
Albert Birch Railway employee
both at 179 Kerferd Road Albert Park
Raylen
1931 Ruby ENSTON Home duties at the same address
Raylen
-
And just to add some interest - or some more confusion ;)
1914
Mabel ENSTON - Home duties
Walter Henry ENSTON - Painter
both living 25 Palermo Street, South Yarra
Raylen
-
I think that there needs to be a sightinging of the marriage certificate of Walt Hy Euston to Ruby Prigg.
It is possible that we are dealing with two men here, not likey but a possiblity? What do you all think.
3 years between the two marriages.....was that enough time back then for a divorce I am wondering, or perhaps no divorce occured ;D
regards Jenn
-
I agree with you, Jenn. I don't think it will be able to be sorted without a certificate or two, unless Peter happens to have some other information that may sort it all.
Two Walt. Hy.s would be amazing with so few Eustons in Victoria.....but is of course a possibility.
.....dee
-
I wonder if Peter has Walton's death certificate and did it say when and where for the first marriage and did it list any children.?
regards Jenn
-
Hopefully Peter will be online later in the day and let us know...... :D
.....dee
-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,59758.msg1739467.html#msg1739467
reply no 20 in particular
check this out Dee
regards Jenn
-
OK Jenn.....now that helps a bit doesn't it...... :-\
Let's see what we can sort out now.....it might take a while but I'll try to put what we have found into context with the info from the other thread.....
.....dee
-
Let’s look at the info for Walt. Hy. Euston and Ruby Prigg first……
Ruby Easton Prigg born 1891 Colac
Father -Jos Mother- Eliza Jane Richardson
Walt Hy EUSTON married Ruby Easton PRIGG] 1913
Ruby Easton Prigg married Walter Hy Euston]
****Peter has the certificate and it says
“On Rubys cert Walt is 29 and a house decorator from Stratford upon Avon and his parents were Thomas EUSTON & Mary Edkins”
However on Walt. Hys death certificate it has his mother as Mary Newton.
Ruby remarried……
Ruby ENSTON married Albt BIRCH in 1934
Ref = 12093
And here’s the death certificate for Ruby that Peter has been unable to find…..
Ruby Birch died 1958 65 Albe
Father: Joseph J Prigg Mother: Eliza Jane Richards
Ref no 7862
Children born to Walt.Hy Euston and Ruby Prigg…….
Ronald ENSTON born in 1917 at COLAC
Father = Harry Walt & Mother = Ruby Easton PRIGG
ref = 2473
In the Electoral Rolls…….
Victorian electoral roll 1936
Ruby Birch Home duties
Albert Birch Railway employee
both at 179 Kerferd Road Albert Park
1931 Ruby ENSTON Home duties at the same address
the 1919 Electoral Roll
has Walton Harry Euston living in in Fertree Gullly
along with a
Ella Gertrude Euston
And Ruby Euston is off by herself home duties
And taken from the other thread.....this family looks very interesting.....
RG13/2973 Folio 155 Page 32.
Forest Rd, Hugglescote, Leics
Mary ENSTON aged 54 widow born Long Mason Worcs
Walter H 24 son house painter born Clavidon Worcs
Frederick 21 house painter born Clavidon
Sarah E Halliday daughter monthly nurse born
?Bernard 14 son grocer's apprentice born Hugglescote Leics
Thomas M ENSTON 3 grandson born ditto
Emily L HALLIDAY grandaughter 6 born ditto
Have I missed anything? I'd rather get this group sorted before I start on the Mabel Lines combination......
....dee
-
good work Dee
I have just downloaded Vic divorces for that time frame 53mg but no divorce showing for either Euston or Prigg
Jenn
-
I've modified what I wrote a couple of times, Jenn.
I looked at the Divorces last night but couln't see anything either.
Can you find any relevant Euston entries in the Electoral Rolls anywhere else in Australia? I can't access them.
I'll work on the Lines shortly....must do an essential chore first.....
.....dee
-
Not so much info on the Euston - Lines combination......
Quoting Peter…..
“A contact from NZ (where Mabel LINES was born) says there is a record of marriage between Walt Hy EUSTON & Mabel Jane LINES. On William Henry EUSTON's birth cert in 1914 Mabel LINES had a previous son George Eric LINES born 21st August 1910 in NZ. Also on William Henry EUSTON's birth cert on 17th January 1913 Walt Hy is 31 ,a painter from Leicester in England, and Mabel is 31 from NZ.”
We’ve found……
Geo Eric Lines ENSTON born in 1911 at PRN
Father = Walt Hy & Mother = Mabel Jane LINES
Ref = 14311
Wm Hy EUSTON born in 1913 at IWOOD
Father = Walt Hy & Mother = Mabel Jane LINES
Ref = 4772
So…..was Geo Eric Lines Euston registered in both NZ and Victoria? (Similar to a double registration we found very recently?)
Peter asked about whether he should get the NZ marriage certificate….I think he might have to, if he is ever to sort this out…..
.....dee
-
Broadening the search......this came up!
http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15712
Of particular note.....
"On the PROV webiste, divorce cause books.
1921
ENSTON, Ruby Easton Respondent: ENSTON, Henry Walter - no other person
cited"
Wonder if Peter has actually sighted the documentation for this?
.....dee
-
I wonder is it two different blockes two diferent names or just a case of bad transcribing.
Walter Henry Enston and Walton Harry Euston
regards Jenn
-
He's sure got a brick wall...... :o ::)
And I think quite an expensive one to try to get to the bottom of it all...... :-\
.....dee
-
Hello Everyone and thankyou for your responses. I have tried to post twice with further details and neither have worked. I'll give more details later (if I can) but for now I apologize for not giving more info in original post.
I have discounted Ruby because she divorced in 1921, and Mabel had a 3rd son, Ronald, in 1917.....the same year Walton and Ella married. Irealize Ronald could still be Waltons but what I am really looking for is Walton's 1st wife who died on 17.1.1914.
I'll leave it at that for now but will post anything else I have this evening. I have attached Waltons marriage to Ella and Walt Hy's marriage to Ruby.
Kind Regards and Many Thanks
Peter Euston
-
but what I am really looking for is Walton's 1st wife who died on 17.1.1914.
With risk of offending you Peter and offence is not intended, perhaps his first wife didn't die. If his first wife is Ruby and she filed for a divorced in 1921 some 7 to 8 years after the marriage, she would have had to have waited for 7 years to do so. He may have just disappeared on her and married again.
regards jenn
-
I've been back Census searching....and it seems the name Euston regularly got transcribed as Enston or vice versa. Unfortunately the images are not appearing on Ancestry as I search.....database down!
But......this really looks like the family of the Walt. H that had parents Thomas and Mary......and 1901 was listed on Peter's other thread.....and the Bernard part makes it very interesting indeed.....
Name mistranscription again!
1871
RG10/ 3207/ 24/ 12
Marston Sicca, Gloucestershire, England (District of Stratford Upon Avon)
Daniel Ed Kink 43
Elizabeth Kink 48
James Kink 17
Walter Kink 8
Albert Butler 5
Thomas Enston 29 Farm Labourer born Ilmington, Warwickshire
Mary Enston 22 born Marston Sicca, Gloucestershire
Thomas Enston 4
George Enston 2
Saw the image....name definitely looked like ENSTON
1881
RG11/ 3087/ 86/ 16
Pinley, Warwickshire, England
Thomas Enston 38 ag lab born Ilmington, Warwickshire,
Mary Enston 33 born Long Marston, Gloucestershire
Thomas Enston 14
George Enston 12
James Enston 9
Sarah E. Enston 6
Emily L. Enston 4
Walter H. Enston 2 born Claverdon, Warwickshire
1891
RG12/ 2512/ 122/ 58
Hugglescote Donnington Leicester
Mary Euston 50 born Long Marton
Emily Euston 14
Walter Euston 12 born Claverdon
Frederick Euston 10
Bernard Euston 3
1901
RG13/ 2973/ 155/ 32
Hugglescote Donnington Leicester
John J Barber 20
Bernard Enston 14
Frederick Enston 21
Mary Enston 54 born Long Mason, Worcestershire
Thomas M Enston 3
Walter H Enston 24 born Clavilton, Worcestershire painter & decorator
Emily L Halliday 6
Sarah E Halliday 26
.....dee
-
Looking at both certificates just posted
Does anyone think that they look similar?
(or do I just HOPE they do ;D)
Raylen
::) I mean the signatures....................silly me!
-
Some similarities in the signatures but one definitely reads Euston and the other Enston.
I am sure that the Walter that married Ruby Prigg is the Walter that appears in the Census results I have listed. The occupation of Thomas on the certificate matches, and so does the birth place, as Stratford On Avon is the district where births of the children occurred......I had just started tracking them on FreeBMD.
.......dee
-
There are 88 deaths in the year 1914 with names ending in 'ston'. Unfortunately I couldn't eliminate males when sorting.
None stand out as being an obvious mistranscription of Euston. :-\
......dee
-
Just thought I'd pop these details on here so we aren't jumping from one site to another.
Peter wrote:
I got out all the certs I have bought and re-read them to try to approach my dilemma systematically.
In brief here is what I "KNOW" from the certificates I have bought.
*Marriage 9th June 1917 in Melbourne Aust.
Walton Harry EUSTON Widower 17.1.1914 , Occupation: Labourer
Birth place Tryddyn Nth Wales
Parents: Wm EUSTON (Veterinary Surgeon),Mabel Mary NEWTON)
Ella Gertrude SMITH Spinster, Occupation: Waitress
Birth place Wedderburn Victoria Aust.
Parents: Samuel Hobbs SMITH, Sarah Ann Young BAKER
*Birth of 1st born. 18th April 1920 in Elsternwick, Melbourne Aust.
Shirley Walton EUSTON
Parents: Watton Harry EUSTON, Age 36 from Tryddyn Nth Wales
Ella Gertrude EUSTON (SMITH) Age 32 Wedderburn Vict.
*Death 6th January 1930 Walton Harry EUSTON Occupation: Painter, Age: 50
Cause of death: Arterio Sclerosis (years) Cardiac Failure (weeks)
Parents: William EUSTON (Vet. Surgeon), Mary EUSTON (NEWTON)
Burial 7th January 1930 at Springvale Springvale Cemetary (Melb)
Where born: Wales
How long in Australia & which State: 26 years Victoria
Spouse: Ella Gertrude SMITH, Age 38 in Prahan Victoria.
Children: Shirley Walton 9yrs, Ralph Alan 6yrs, Eric Bernard 2yrs.
Raylen
-
Do we know that he was actually in Victoria when his wife died?
(She asks wondering if I've missed it somewhere along the line ::))
Raylen
-
Raylen....if he wasn't the same man being rather naughty..... maybe he was the one who married in NZ and she died back there.......
I've been going through the 88 deaths eliminiating for various reasons, such as wrong sex, too old, all the Johnstons, same name as father and checking back on records......and there's no possibilities that I can see left!
.....dee
-
BUT ..................his death certificate points to the information that he was in Victoria Australia for 26 years so arrival around 1904........ wife died in 1914.
Jenn
-
Do you think Peter has any hair left? I'm sure I won't by the end of the day...... ;D ;D ;D ;D
The webs our ancestors weave!
.....dee
-
Hello again and thanks for your effort. You all seem to have come to the same conclusion as me......this won't be an easy one to solve. I was pleased to eliminate Mabel & Ruby as possible 1st wives although it didn't actually move me any further forward (or backward...depending how you look at it). Another strange coincidence I found on Digger Vict Inquest CD was a Mabel Alice LINES taking an un-named baby to hospital "for urgent treatment" in 1914, father unknown.
I have have no luck anywhere in UK and am hoping if I can find the 1st wife and buy the marriage and death certificates they may perhaps contain a vital clue (hence my original post). When I found the birth of William Henry in 1914 to Mabel Jane LINES I was sure this was the 1st wife but could not find her death. Then when Ronald was born to Mabel in 1917 it meant that she wasn't the woman who had died making Walton a widower even though Ronald may still have been Walton's son. I have attached Williams birth cert for you to look at.
I regularly search Prov & AusBDM on-line but have had no joy so far. As for the other questions you raise....yes I still have most of my hair although it is going grey and yes the brickwall could potentially cost me my house if I'm determined to resolve the issue. I have also attached Walton & Ella's 1st borns birth certificate. On my next post I will attach Waltons Death Certificate.
Well I've rambled on enough for now. So once again thankyou very much for all your efforts.
Kind Regards
Peter Euston
-
Peter.......
looking at William Henry's birth certificate .....
Point 1.... it definitely indicates he married Mabel Jane Lines in New Zealand.....as long as he was telling the truth......
Point 2......the coincidences of all the things that Walter who married Ruby and Walter who married Mabel are remarkable......to me they are suggesting it is too much of a coincidence., and they have to be the same man. Then Ruby divorces him.
It will be interesting to hear how Jenn and Raylen see this....and anyone else who likes to join in.
I can see no connection with the birth certificate of Shirley though at this stage, except to say that there is always a possibility he changed the details to marry before the divorce went through. I know he gave a death date on his marriage certificate..... but why can't anyone find any trace of him in Wales?
I searched every single page of every census applicable for the birthplace of Tryddyn....and there wasn't even a name that was suggestive of Euston/Enston really......
I'll keep trying to help you with the hair tearing...... ;D ;D
......dee
-
Another strange coincidence I found on Digger Vict Inquest CD was a Mabel Alice LINES taking an un-named baby to hospital "for urgent treatment" in 1914, father unknown.
Don't think this is related :)
LINES Unnamed female b 1913 CHill Father: not named Mother: Mabel Alice Lines
LINES not stated d 1913 EMelb Father: not named Mother: Mabel Alice Lines
1915 Mabel Alice LINES married Albt Ernt PALMER 1915
Raylen
-
That's like I found the death of an Amelia Houston in 1914. Houston/Euston? But checking back, she married a Houston back in the 1890s.....and his name was nothing like Walton/Walter. ;D ;D
.....dee
-
Dee
My thoughts here are a bit muddled. I think it is a strong possiblity of two different men, but an actual look at the divorce of Ruby Enston may be more than helpful,, perhaps Gennig might be up to it on her next visit.
Raylen there are similarities with the signature but also a bit of diference too.
It still doesn't explain in any way the alledged death of the first wife in 1914 or the fact that no sign of his birth and his family in Wales.
clear as mud ;D
Jenn
-
Is it a little odd that Walton only shows on 1919 and 1924 electoral rolls?
If he arrived in Australia in 1904 age 24 years he should be on
the 1914 roll shouldn't he ???
Raylen
-
As he was from the UK, he had the right to be on the roll and vote....but not sure that he had to be......
I'll google.....and see if I can find the answer.
.....dee
-
I've given up on that..... :-\
I did search FreeBMD births for the whole of England and Wales over a thirty year period just using the given name of Walton. Hundreds came up....but not one that looked at all like Euston/Enston, or the mother's name of Newman. :-\
I also searched Harry Walton/Henry Walton/Harold Walton withour success.
......dee
-
While Victorian Electoral rolls have been posted previously I thought I'd post them
all in the same place, in year order to see if anything looks clearer.
1914 Walter Henry ENSTON - Painter
Mabel ENSTON - Home Duties
25 Palermo St South Yarra
1919 Ruby EUSTON - Elliminyt - Home Duties
1919 Walton Harry EUSTON - Farm Labourer
Ella Gertrude EUSTON - Home duties
Bayswater
1924 Walton Harry EUSTON - Painter
Ella Gertrude EUSTON - Home duties
11 Rugby Rd, Oakleigh
1931 Ella Gertrude EUSTON - Home duties
42 Hotham St, Oakleigh
1936 Ella Gertrude EUSTON - Home duties
1 Latrobe St Oakleigh
(Maybe these will be helpful somewhere along the line :))
1903 May EUSTON - 363 Little Collins St Melbourne - Bar Maid
married Wm Jas Hudson SCOTT 1920
died 1946 63 Froy Father-John Euston Mother-Mary Hamilton
1924,1931,1936
William John EUSTON - Electrician
William John EUSTON aged 73 died in HEID in 1969
Father = Collier Maxwell EUSTON & Mother = UNKNOWN
Ref = 5469
Winifred Isabel EUSTON - Home duties
28 Ames Ave, Murrumbeena
Wm John Euston married Wfred Isabel Barton 1920
Does this provide any clues? ???
Raylen
**edited to add more details
-
Hello Reylen, what a good idea. The William EUSTON you mentioned is a source of confusion for me since Oakleigh & Murrumbeena are neighbouring suburbs but that "seems" to be the only connection as far as I know.
Since what I feel I really need is Walton's 1st wife who died in 1914 I have stopped looking at Ruby & Mabel despite the similarities & coincidences. Ella & Walton's marriage cert gives no specific indication as to where she died and like you I have always assumed it was in Victoria. When I went to school 1+1 always equaled 2 and so it would seem to be a simple equation with Walton but unfortunately not.
The birth cert for Shirley I attached because I found the middle name, Walton, interesting for a female and going on family tradions back then it made me more sure it was Walton Harry that I was looking for. Although having said that I was tricked into believing that the William Henry born to Mabel LINES had to be Waltons son since William was his father. Ahhhh, the joys of family history.
With Many Thanks & Kind Regards
Peter Euston
PS here is the death ceath I mention in my last reply.
Peter
-
Thanks for that last certificate, Peter.....shall take a look.
You often have to go sideways to get that missing clue. Raylen's posting of the Electoral Roll entries gives us something else to try.
.....dee
-
This looks like the death of that William John Euston......
William John EUSTON aged 73 died in HEID in 1969
Father = Collier Maxwell EUSTON & Mother = UNKNOWN
Ref = 5469
Can't see a death for wife Isabel, but that is not really important anyway.
......dee
-
Peter,
I've spent another afternoon searching in every possible place and in every way I can think of for any sign of your man. I've even searched all the censuses and Freebmd just using the given name of Walton, and then browsing the surnames on the offchance of a likely mistranscription. Absolutely nothing!
Although there is nothing to link the two men, the funny thing is I did the same looking for Collier Maxwell Euston, father of William John Euston. I did it using just Collier and just Maxwell....and again, nothing.
There is no birth of a William Euston that looks like it could be William John either.
I cannot find any likely records of either's entry to Australia.
At this stage, I don't think there is much more we can do but wish you good luck.....
.....dee
-
Hello Dee, and thankyou again. I suppose all that is left is to wait until all the Parish Records for Mars are completed and published on-line. It looks like mine will be one of the shortest single name family trees in history. Dad's brother Ralph had 2 daughters while I am the only son of Eric. If my only son, Richard, doesn't have children or only has daughters then my tree will make short reading.
I hope you have had a good dose of "CHALLENGE" with Walton Harry EUSTON.......That is probably the last we will ever hear of him.
With Many Many Thanks & Best Wishes
Peter Euston
-
I hope you have had a good dose of "CHALLENGE" with Walton Harry EUSTON.......That is probably the last we will ever hear of him.
We won't forget the name. ;)
Seriously though, never give up. Something may turn up.................