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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: JosiahS on Monday 31 March 08 15:32 BST (UK)
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Hello there!
I'm trying to trace a John Thursfield and his wife Eleanor back to where they came from.
They started having children in Northumberland and Durham in 1776 and continued to 1794! However they did not marry in the North East.
The family were Potters for generations and some of his grandchildren moved to Staffordshire to work at a later time.
From what I can see Thursfield is a name which seems to originate in the Staffordshire area, and while there are no matching marriages on the IGI I would appreciate it if anyone has access to data which does not appear on the IGI could check to see if they have my elusive Thursfields.
I am descended from a Hannah Thursfield who married a John Shepherd Martin (also an elusive potter) in Co. Durham in 1790 - she may be either the daughter or sister of the above John (they had children baptised on the same day at the same church in 1794)
Any help or advise gratefully received.
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
THis is rather a long shot too - I have a rather ancient cd which has some Staffordshire bdms (I think it came from ancestry - moons ago)
I can't find the marriage, but I found these two baptisms
Wolstanton parish Registers
20 Jul 1755 Jno son of Jno and Hannah Thursfield
01 May 1763 Hannah d of Jon and Hannah Thursfield
The records I have for Wolstanton only go to 1769
Trish
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To follow along from Trish .... on the IGI .... all with the same parents John and Hannah :)
maybe you have these already :-\ but I'll post just in case !!
ISAAC THURSFIELD
Gender Male Christening 26 Jun 1757 Wolstanton Stafford
WM. THURSFIELD
Gender Male Christening 30 Apr 1749 Wolstanton Stafford
WM. THURSFIELD
Gender Male Christening 15 Sep 1751 Wolstanton Stafford
JAMES THURSFIELD
Gender Male Christening 15 Sep 1751 Wolstanton Stafford
This one ... parents are Samuel and Abigail !!
WILLIAM THURSFIELD
Gender Male Christening 11 Oct 1812 Wolstanton Stafford
Annie :)
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Hi Trish and Annie
Many thanks for those - I had spotted them myself as I reckon John and Hannah would be of about the right ages, and it would explain why Hannah only had two children.
I spent Friday going through the records for Heworth and Jarrow in Co Durham where they lived. John's wife Eleanor seems to have remarried in 1798 and then died in 1817 aged 65 so again that would support the idea of John being born in the early 1750s as well. However there was no death for John Thursfield in the registers - if I can find that then I might get an age.
I also checked the baptisms of the children they had in Gateshead but go not more information (not even John's trade) so my last hope is to check the one baptism in Newcastle Upon Tyne St Nicholas which is the only one to mention the mother's name and hope there is a bit more information on there.
I think the key to linking the Wolstanton Thusfields to mine may be to find John and Eleanor's marriage. Jarrow marriages aren't on the IGI but I checked the records on Friday and it didn't happen there. They may have been married when they arrived in Co Durham, but there are no marriages for unknown Thursfields in the county so I suspect that they had no children before they arrived. Certainly there were no Thursfields in the county before them.
Thanks for your thoughts and assistance.
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
I have looked at this Thursfield family & as you say descendants of John & Eleanor do go back to Stoke on Trent.
I've got copies of all the Thursfield wills etc. but none mention any family in Co. Durham. There is one mentions county palantine but we have this as Cheshire at the moment.
You are a bit stuck with the family as I am in that they use the same 1st names, John, Thomas etc.
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Hi there
Good to hear from you.
Do you have any information on the marriage of John and Eleanor?
I am also interested in deaths - John did not die in the NE of England as far as I can find. His death must be in the zone between about 1794 (the baptism of his last child) and 1798 (the remarriage of his wife). Hannah Martin nee Thursfield is also absent from the obvious Durham parish burial records, though her husband, John Shepherd Martin, was back in Co Durham in 1841.
John Martin was marked as being born out of county in 1841 (and died before 1851), though he too was a potter and may have been from Staffordshire.
Any further information would be great!
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
I haven't a burial for John Thursfield in NE England. I will have to change Eleanor's marriage as I have her as the daughter christened 1776.
will have a dig around & get back to you.
Pat
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Hi Pat
Eleanor the daughter married the same year as her mother - 17 Feb 1798 to Andrew Naylor. Eleanor senior remarried 16 Aug 1798 to Robert Bates and died aged 65 in Jarrow in 1817 giving a year of birth of about 1752.
Hope this helps
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
Thank you for the mother's marriage will add to the tree.
Pat
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Pat
I have most of the Durham Thursfields traced to about 1850 - could you tell me the names of the beneficiaries of the wills in the county palatine and dates and I'll check them off (it could also be Lancashire or Durham)
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
It's John Thursfield dated 1625 labourer of Stoke on Trent. So a bit of a large gap to fill in for your Durham Thursfields.
He mentions his brother Thomas Thursfield & married sister Betricia Sandford living in the county palantine,
Also a brother William Thursfield.
This will is what I base the Cheshire branch of the Thursfields on.
Pat
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Yes it would be quite a leap!
Please let me know if you find anything.
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
Will do.
Pat
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Hi Pat
Just in case you missed it on the Durham board I have just found the baptism for Hannah Tusfield in All Saints Newcaslte-u-T in 1771 and the marriage for John Tusfield and Eleanor Rowintree in 1770.
Thanks for your help on this that is a great breakthrough at least for Eleanor and Hannah, and thanks for the information about Isabel which made it all happen.
Cheers
Ashley
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Hi Pat
Looking at the names of the children, they appear to be using English naming pattern. Eleanor Rowintree was the daughter of James Rowintree and Isabel Chicken (James and Isabel are the names of the second daughter and second son).
Assuming this is the case John's parents would be Hannah (1st daughter) and Thomas (1st son)
On the IGI the only option I can see for this is John Thursfield b Newton-in-the-Moors in the Potteries.
If you have additional records and can provide alternatives I'd be very grateful
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
is this John baptised 1746 Norton in the Moors.
I have him married to Margaret Thomas in Wellington, Shropshire in 1777. I will have to check for certain why. I think his age is on something given to me by a descendant who did a lot of research.
The other Johns are
John son of Katharine 1754 Norton in the Moors
John son of John & Hannah 1755 Wolstanton.
John son of John1744 Wybunbury, Cheshire
John son of Thomas of Brown Moss 1748 Wybunbury Cheshire
The John baptised 1737 Broseley is accounted for.
These are baptismal dates so might not be actual birth dates.
Pat
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Hi Pat
Thanks for those.
I looked at the one born in Wybunbury to Thomas but his mother's name was Rebecca which does not fit. I had presumed that the one who was born in 1755 would have been too young to marry in 1770 and be marked as a potter (he would still be an apprentice I presume).
I need to check the NCL All Saints marriages to see if there is further information - 1770 is missing from the BTs on the LDS site.
Thanks again for all your help - if I find more I'll get back
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
Will go with John son of Thomas & Hannah being the right chap because of his children's names fitting. No harm done if we find out later it is wrong because you can alter it.
Not sure about apprenticeships in those days. Marriage ages I have found the following In 1753 it was fixed at 14 for men and 12 for women and remained at that until the Age of Marriage Act 1929 when it was raised to 16 for both."
Above taken verbatim from The Family Tree Detective by Colin D Rogers
Have checked with some info. that Mrs Diana Grant gave my brother. She doesn't give a baptism or burial for him & no parents named.
Her John, Margaret, Nancy age 12, William age 8, Thomas age 4 were removed from Newcastle under Lyme to Drayton in Hales in 1790 as place of last legal settlement. She doesn't give John's baptism details but seems to indicate he might have been married before he married Margaret Thomas who was a widow.
Also have settlement paper for Ann Thursfield daughter of John Thursfield feltmaker from Newcastle under Lyme being sent as a pauper apprentice to Styal in Cheshire in 1790. Place of settlement Market Drayton.
I have a death for John Thursfield age 79 of poor house buried 6 Dec 1824 with a note made by might be Norton or Cheshire?
Getting back to Thomas & Hannah. I have them married in 1745 Norton in the Moors. Hannah's name was Leigh.
children
John 1746 Norton in the Moors
Stephen 1749/50 Norton in the Moors
Hannah 1753 Norton in the Moors
Thomas 1754 Norton in the Moors
James 1758 Norton in the Moors
Susannah 1761 Norton in the Moors
Thomas Buried 1765 Norton in the Moors
James buried 1765 Norton in the Moors
Looking for a baptism for Thomas married 1745 they are few & far between
I have got one not on the igi & that is Thomas Son of John & Ann at Trentham but that is in 1728.
I have checked names & dates but if I am out let me know.
Pat
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Pat you are kind!
I must say that gut feeling is that John from Norton is my chap though I am have the impression that Staffordshire records are not complete on the IGI - if I am wrong please tell me.
I had found the first two children to Thomas and Hannah (John and Stephen) do thank you very much for the others. I suspect that Hannah Leigh is the one born in Norton in 1724 whose father's name was not recorded!!
I also had a snoop around for Thomas' baptism and could not really see one which fitted so the fact that you can suggest another one is good.
Interestingly my John had a daughter Susannah which is a name which appears from no-where - I think the naming system indicates that children were named after siblings of both parents after the parents names were exhausted. If that were the case then having already used up Hannah, John would next use Susannah. They also had a daughter called Frances and I cannot yet see where that came from.
Thanks again for all your help, Pat
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
my dad & brother went through the parish registers on micro fiche (might be Bishops transcripts) many years ago so I have their list of Thursfields to work from.
the igi is a good starting point
I've got some printed copies of the Staffordshire parish registers too. Will have a look if I have the one with Hannah Leigh's baptism in.
Frances were that came from I'm not sure either.
Pat
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hi Ashley
unbelievable, 1724 July 12 Hannah Leigh, of the Parish of Carswall baptised.
Pat
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Hi Pat
Thanks for the additional information - so maybe her parents had married in Carswall, wherever that is - could it be Caverswall??
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
I take it Carswell is Caverswall. Most likely the way it was said.
The entry is unusual because usually the parents names are given.
Pat
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Copied from printed register (with spelling mistakes)
Memorand. A Copy of ye Register for what is pass'd transmitted into ye court, July 21st, 1730.
John Repton, Ministr
Ch. Wardeins
William Leigh,
John Cartwright,
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There may be some useful information on the Thursfield family for you on this website http://www.thursfield-history.co.uk/ Dave.
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Thank you for that Dave.
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Yes, thanks for that one Dave, I'll take a look
Cheers
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
have started to write down what I can about the Thursfields from Norton in the Moors (might be mistakes in it at this stage). I should be able to add to the following with bits from wills etc.
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WOW! Pat that is an incredible piece of work!!
Thank you so much for sharing it with me.
Lots of stuff to start digging around in when I get home this evening.
Cheers
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
revised piece, sent in 2 messages as it is too long for one, I'm still not finished, more to add
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next bit
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Amazing!
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Thursfields from Norton in the Moors
Bishop transcripts, wills etc
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Hi Ashley
My dad & brother did most of the research. All I have done is copied their hard work.
Pat
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Then thanks to ALL of you - I'm going to enjoy trying to work out who belongs to whom!!
All the best
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
I can add some more it just takes time to gather all the info. together.
Pat
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Boy, you must have quite an archive of information - thanks again for sharing it.
Ashley
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Yes I am very lucky to have quite an insight into the Thursfields. It helps with over 30 years of research to look at. I've put together numerous trees so will be interested to see what conclusions you come to.
Always nice to have a fresh pair of eyes looking at the entries
Pat
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List incorrect
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latest effort 1650-1699
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latest effort 1702- 1770
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Hi Ashley
this might be worth checking out, not sure
Apprentices vol 1-5 Index of Masters 1710 to 1762
49/86 1729 Thos. Thos. of Hixham to Jn Thrslheld of Newcastle £100
ex in bks at PRO
Pat
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That is an amazing find Pat - if there was an apprenticeship from Hexham to Newcastle in 1720 then I could be looking for a much earlier connection.
I'm on the case and will report back (I'll also check out the app record next time I am across at the NA)
Thanks again
Ashley
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Hi Ashley if it is correct it would be brilliant, but as you say it needs checking. Not sure what the apprenticeship was for which is a shame. Had a look at Thomas family in Hexham but couldn't find anything to help.
Pat
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There may be some useful information on the Thursfield family for you on this website http://www.thursfield-history.co.uk/ Dave.
Hi Dave
I don't know whether you would like to include my piece about the Thursfields on your website. Have pasted the start of it below.
"Newchapel, a straggling village, from two to three miles N of Tunstall, gives name to a chapelry district (of Wolstanton parish), comprising Thursfield township, Chell, Wedgewood, and parts of Stadmoreslow, and Brerehurst townships. "
[From History, Gazetteer and Directory of Staffordshire, William White, Sheffield, 1851]
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Hi Pat
Where did you find the apprenticeship record? - I had a look on the listings on British Origins and it was not there
Cheers
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
It was from my brother's research at the PRO.
Pat
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Thanks Pat - I'll take a look myself next time I get across there.
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
It must have been taken from a book there.
Apprentices vol 1-5 Index of Masters 1710 to 1762
49/86 1729 Thos. Thos. of Hixham to Jn Thrslheld of Newcastle £100
ex in bks at PRO
I take it ex in bks at PRO is short for extract in books at Public Record Office (now the National Archives)
Pat
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Hi Ashley
have you found Louisa Thursfield the convict in 1823. She was transported to Australia.
Pat
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Hi Pat
No she is a new one on me - is she of the NE or Staffordshire lot?
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
from memory Sunderland but she was tried at Warwick. Will look for her details.
Pat
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Hi Pat
Was she born 1823 or transported 1823?
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
Transported 1823, she had a child Thomas.
Pat
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Hi Pat
I have found the transportation of Louisa but I can't find her at all in my records - do you know if Thursfield was her maiden name or married name??
I have also found out that Robert Thursfield, grandson of John T and Eleanor Rowentree by their son John, married in South Shields and then moved back to Staffordshire - he had three children there that I am aware of - Harriet c 1855, Alice Elizabeth c 1858 both in Hanley and then Maria c 1860 in Longton.
Cheers
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
I can add a bit.
1824 Index of New South Wales Convict indents. Louisa, nursing maid tried Warwick April 1824 age 18 years life sentence native place Sunderland, height 5’ 5” eyes hazel, hair black, complexion brown, little freckled, well, single.
From memory I thought Robert had one daughter born in Germany, will have to check.
Par
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Hi Pat
I still can't fin her - the only one which vaguely could be her is one from the IGI and Bishop's Transcripts which is Louisa Cropfield in 1808 - she is marked as 3rd daughter of Thomas Cropfield, Guilder and Plater of Birmingham and his wife Margaret Anson of Colchester.
Even if the surname is wrong then she is from a different family.
Hmmm...puzzling.
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
I've got a Thomas & Margaret Thursfield in Birmingham but he is a gunlockfiler in 1814.
I would put Louisa Thursfield on hold. Her son Thomas I think returned to England but was a mariner so went back & forth to NSW. His family stayed in London with his wife who I think had Northumberland connections, I would have to search them out to make sure.
according to 1851 & 1861 census Robert moved about a bit. I have 4 children for him.
one thing for sure there are more records appearing by the day, trying to sort out a Thursfield who died in Scutari during the Crimean War
Pat
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Hi Pat
I notice Louisa Thursfield was transported for her second crime: She was found guilty of larceny in January 1823 in Warwick and was sentenced to 6 months. Then she was found guilty of robbery at the Lent assizes at Warwick in 1824 and sentenced to death. It must have been commuted as she was transported September 1824.
Cheers
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
Louisa was a busy girl.
I've started to put bits on Dave Thursfield's site. He has just added a piece about Peter Thursfield watchmaker for me. Wondered if you wanted to add a peice about your Thursfields, I'm sure he would be pleased to hear from you.
Take it you aren't a football fan on a Saturday afternoon.
Pat
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I had Sky Sports News on in the room at the same time!
Sunderland won!
Ashley
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All I know is Derby County lost
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:'(
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Louisa is mentioned in the Australian newspapers. Got to thank Gordon Thursfield for letting me know about the site.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au
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Hi Pat
By coincidence I had just found a document on Ancestry which showed that she was born in Sunderland too - it indicated that sshe was 18 at the time of conviction, which would put her born about 1805/6.
If she was born in Sunderland then the only option for parents would be Thomas T and Mary Scott who were married at Monkwearmouth in 1803, but I only have on child born to them in 1807. I've hunted everywhere this afternoon looking for her baptism but it just is not there, but she must belong to my side of the family somehow.
Seems she was a bit of a bad'un - convicted twice and a 'notorious run-away' according to the newspaper site you kindly pointed me towards.
I seem to remember your mentioning that she had a young son called Thomas as well, which might support her being Thomas's daughter. Great if I've got another black sheep!
Cheers
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
I've got Thomas Thursfield on a census return in Australia.
Not sure if he is this chap.
Gravesend & Milton March 7th 1850
Thomas Trusfield x mariner of Milton son of Thomas Trusfield tailor
Eleanor Jane Donaldson of Milton daughter of George Donaldson mariner
Witnesses- David Jackson Caroline Hasted
Pat
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Thanks for that one Pat.
I'm not sure if he would be mine - the 1850 date would mean that he would have to be the child who went across with Louisa, with a made up father's name.
I'll keep it on file for now and see what else turns up.
Where did you get access to the Australian Censuses?
Cheers
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
Years ago I was in touch with Ian Clarke who sent me the 1828 census for NSW
Census NSW 1828
Thomas Thursfield age 4 Orphan Institute Cabramatta
Richard Wiltshire tailor Castlereagh Street Sydney
Louisa Wiltshire same address
Marriage 8 March 1826 performed by Rev William Cooper Sydney NSW
Richard Wiltshire age 23 ship Batavia sentence 7 years free
Louisa Thursfield age 19 ship Grenada sentence life bond
Thomas Thursfield/Trusfield is mentioned as a mariner from NSW, will see if I can find details.
best wishes
Pat
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Hi Pat
A friend of mine in Australia has been looking at this too - it seems that Richard was a successful tailor, who returned alone to the UK in 1836. She is trying to find out what happened to Louisa before or after he left.
At the moment there are a number of examples of her absconding, and the most recent record she has found was Louisa being put into jail on Newcastle NSW in 1835 and she was to be forwarded to Sydney for identification.
So if Thomas was hers then she abandonned him before 1828.
Cheers
Ashley
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Hi Ashley
18 Aug 1830 THURSFIELD Thomas 6 - - WILSHIRE, formerly THRUSFIELD Louisa WILSHIRE, Richard Parent or guardian requesting child be returned to their custody 115-117 NRS 783 2 2777
Pat
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Re John Thursfield and Margaret Thomas married Wellington, England in 1777
Did you get to the bottom of whether Margaret was a widow when she married John in 1777 and if so who her first husband was :-\? I would be interested in filling in this hole in my ancestry Also, I would be interested to learn anything more about John's first marriage.
Thanks :)
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Hi Chatters,
I'm also researching Thursfields. Any Thursfields connected to Sutton Coldfield,Warwickshire?
adeline b :D
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I know a bit about the Sutton Coldfield Thursfields.