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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Neesha on Monday 03 March 08 10:08 GMT (UK)
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Hey there....Im searching for my English ancestors and my extended family....My great grandfather Danvers Hsrrington Trott was a soldier in WW1 and then came down to India he was married in Bangalore and passed away in Madras....
We've been looking high and low to trace his irth details...would anyone be able to help me....
Regards,
Neesha
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About what year was he born and where do you know?
Have you any further information from the marriage certificate?
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We have his marriage and his death certificate...howvere the thing is that on both the certificates his date of birth is not mentioned just his approximate age...
So when we calculate his DOB backwards from the date of marraige or death with the age mentioned on the cert we're getting different dates....any idea if i can getnay records from the WW1 offices...would anything he would have done or registered at have his Birth details...
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But what is the approximate dob?
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The age at mariage is likely to be more reliable, because he gave the detail himself - age at death is how old the informant thought he was...
If you don't have details of his WW1 medal entitlement, you can download the medal card for £3.50 at the National Archives site: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Medal card of Trott, Danvers H
Corps: Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry
Regiment No: 30381
Rank: Acting Serjeant
If his service record survived the bombing of WW2, it will be at Kew, but can only be consulted in person, not by mail. Some service records are now online at Ancestry http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/, but only a few so far.
At the moment, I can't see a Danvers TROTT on the 1901 census or Free BMD.
Rambler
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Is his father mentioned on the marriage certificate?
search.fibis.org shows a James Harrington Trott m. Blanche Louisa Gomez around 1891-1895.
This may be a second marriage as www.familysearch.org also shows Edgarina Harrington Trott, a daughter of James Harrington Trott and Edgarina (b. in India).
What was Danver's occupation after the war?
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his date of death was the year 1916 and his age was 32 so going back 32 years from 1916 we get 1884 which should have been his year of birth
According to his death cert in 1940 he was 65 yeras so his DOB 65 years backwards from 1940 is about 1874 or 75....
I too came to the conclusion that the marraige cert would be more reliable as he would have given his date of birth himself and not a third person who would be guessing...
Nee
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Marriage 1916 ? ;D Yes? who did he marry? Was father named on cert?
Jorose and rambler got some good information here for you. Try and put down everything that you know of , names place dates etc.
best of luck
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now here's the confusing part his father's name was james harrington Trott his mother's is not mentioned any where....
he had 6 children Elsie Margaret Trott who married Sydney Bertram Rozario
Clinton Joseph Harrington Trott died in Dec 1989
Ines Edgarina Dorothea Trott (also called Dorris and is my Grandmother asin my dad's mum ) married Vincent johnson (both deceased)
Ronald Charles Harrington Trott Bachelor deceased Feb 1963
Helen May Lousie Trott married Harry Peters and settled in UK
James Lawrence Harrington Trott marriedJean Mary Philomena Rhyce
So im not sure if Edgraina was his mother and that why the 3 rd child (my grand mum ) and the last son James were named after his parents....
Super confusing....
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rambler i managed to get his medal card details from Ancenstory by some miracle last week....I dont have the copy of it or anything else just the same details that u gave me again....which was a real break through from having nothing at all...
we were thinking of writing to the ppl at KEw and getting a copy of the same...However would that have a date orplace of birth so that i can trace further or would that give me any further info or just the same stuff thats mentioned here....
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James Harrington Trott isn't showing up on UK census/Free BMD either, and nor is Edgarina - there are no Trotts with middle name Harrington on the BMD index.
I think Danvers (and James) must have been born outside England/Wales like Edgarina. Have you tried the GRO overseas birth index? If you're not in the UK, it's online at findmypast http://www.findmypast.com/HomeServlet (pay per view site).
Rambler
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The medal card basically lists the medals to which he was entitled, date of entry into a theatre of war, and date of discharge - at least that's all I have on grandad's! More detailed explanation here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp#read
Rambler
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Looks like the Trott family may have been Anglo-Indian. On the IGI if you just put in Trott and 'all types' events' and region Asia, India there are a lot of Trott records although none as I can see at the moment with any of the relevant names.
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now what i would like to know from both silvery and rambler is that given the case if he was born outside england or wales or he was an Anglo - Indian and born here but his birth was registered in England somewhere does that still mean that he would be consideed as British?
cos as far as what i know and in diffeent instances from relatives relating old stories Danvers and his family were all Bristish from somewhere in the UK and his family belonged to the Church of england...Given that case what does that mean???
serioulsy confused...
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Nationality would be British, and passed down through the father. There's a bit about it here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Indian
AT the moment there is no English birth registration coming up for Danvers, and his father appears to have been born in India, see message by Jorose about James Harrington Trott, which I think she got from here
http://www.fibis.org/
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From the 'fibis' site
there is a report from the Bangalore Spectator 29-01-1895 of
Danvers H Trott taking an exam in the C and M station (European Schools) Bangalore, and he was from Baldwin Boys School.
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It may be worth contacting the school.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_Boys_High_School
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hey silvery,
Just read the article....what would the C and M Exam be though?
Danvers settled down in Blore in 1916 when he got married and then styaed there for a couple of years....as a mater of fact my mum and me are making a trip down there in a few days time to visit the church to see if they have any info on him registered there....like if he had to submit any prrof of birth or something before he got married...
However if say he was born in 1884 he would have been 11 yrs at that time right when he did the exam so what exactly is this exam...is it listed any where else?
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also want to know that when people registerd for the British Royal Army or navy did they have to be on british soil or were the britishers here also considered..its all so complicated cos we have details of him from his family members that say he was there some people say he was here...
the thing is during the peiod of the british rule in india so many of them were down here and at that time when they were born if their births were registered here or there what catgory does that come under...how do i benefit from that..its all so complicated and confusing....
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They should have been registered with the British authorities in India - there were separate lists for military birth and civilian ones. I can't get my free access to overseas records on familyrelatives.com working at the moment. :( I hope they haven't sneakily done something to it, they're still claiming they're free.
"C & M Station" was a muncipality of Bangalore, so that's referring to the location in which he took the exam, not which exam he took.
J. Harrington Trott apparently was the author of 'Trott's Coloured Map of Railways in India' and related works. (re: Google Books). So he was probably working for the railways.
Also on fibis: In 1841 James Henry Trott married Margaret Harrington. Could these be James Harrington Trott's parents (grandparents?).
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must find out which municipalty of blore that comes under then....cos when i googled C& M it says its he coordination and maintanence committee for a factory or some equipment....the thing is that i still dont know if my grand dad was born in UK or India...If he was born in the UK then he may have come down when he was little and been in blore where he could have eventually registered for WW1 and then got married....
If he was in UK and fought in WW1 and only then came down to Blore also he may be registered somewhere...
The James Henry Trot may be some distant relative of Danvers as 1841 is too soon a year for them to be james harrington trotts grandparents...Cos James was Danvers father and if danver was born in 1884 then his father and his grandparents would have been born in the early 1800's or even the late 1700's...
The are begining to be too many trotts now and too many ppl with the same names...lol....
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tell me something though....i know for a fact that the details given on the medal card are exact cos his son spoke of the same stuff and the details he's given me are exactly the same as on the medal card which states he was an acting sargent and that his corps was the oxs and bucks light infantry...will those guys have any info? and if so how can i get it...
cos the other names may just be coincidences or similarities but i know this medal card will be exact cos his son told me the same details...and if they are available would that have been for someone on UK soil alone or any britisher on Indian soil as well
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Hi this is response to a previous post I made here...Im trying to locate my family tree...
Im lookig for a Danvers Harrington Trott son of James trott..
he married Louise Margaret Satur and had 6 children
Elsie Margaret Trott who married Sydney Bertram Rozario
Clinton Joseph Harrington Trott died in Dec 1989
Ines Edgarina Dorothea Trott (also called Dorris and is my Grandmother as in my dad's mum ) married Vincent johnson (both deceased)
Ronald Charles Harrington Trott Bachelor deceased Feb 1963
Helen May Lousie Trott married Harry Peters and settled in UK
James Lawrence Harrington Trott married Jean Mary Philomena Rhyce
Does anyone know any of these people or is anyone related to them or come from this tree...Do let me know asIm trying to trace where I come from..
Regards,
Neesha
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what part of the world, what dates, ar we talking?
I think you may be best taking a more logical approach to tracing you r tree. Start with yourself, your birth certificate, and work back a step at a time. Do yuo know who your grandparetns were? and dates for them even of approximate? Can yuo then find their marriage? etc etc
I see you have a granparent in your list Ines Johnson nee Trott - what sort of dates would she be around? Is she in England? likely to be on 1901 census?
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Link to previous post about this family/
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,289817.0.html
Topics merged
Rambler
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hey rambler we spoke some time ago nd you sent me the medal card of Danvers h trott... its on the same post..Wanted to know what kind of details would i get on the medal card?
Nee
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hey liz...
The people i was aking about aremy grand mum's family...My dad is in india my grandmother and the people mentioned in the mail were all British...The person i statred the mail with by saying im looking for a Danvers harrington trott...
Well thats the person im actually trying to find...There soesnt seem to be much info that i have other than thathe was in World War 1 and was an acting sergent and that he settled down in India married in India at Bangalore had 6 children whosenames i mentioned and then paased away in Madrs....
I havent been able to find anything more about him so decided to use another approach to try locating the family sto see if they can help me out...
Nee
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Hi Nee,
I've merged your posts as it can be a wee bit confusing when some info has already posted.
Can I ask you don't post any information about living people it is a risk that information maybe used for fraudulent reasons.
Please see this post for finding living relatives.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,261434.0.html
Best of luck,
Pam
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hey pam,
None of these people are alve as of now....They've all passed away and im trying to tace members of their families as they will be related to me...Im actually trying to trace a Mr Danvers Harrington Trott as he is my great grand father....
do you know of any place where i can get information of the Edinburgh school of marine engineering
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"C & M Station" was a muncipality of Bangalore, so that's referring to the location in which he took the exam, not which exam he took.
Yes - and in this context "C & M" stand for "Civil & Military".
Anna
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I gave you a link which explains medal cards on your original thread:
The medal card basically lists the medals to which he was entitled, date of entry into a theatre of war, and date of discharge - at least that's all I have on grandad's! More detailed explanation here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp#read
Rambler
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k...And when someone does this Civil and military exam how old does he have to be at that time anddoes he do any other exam or course after that to gain eligibility into the army or navy?
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k...And when someone does this Civil and military exam how old does he have to be at that time anddoes he do any other exam or course after that to gain eligibility into the army or navy?
There's no evidence of what the exam was that he took. It is not described in the relevant publication as the Civil & Military exam - but rather as an examination (unspecified) which he took in the C & M Station in Bangalore.
Without more information it's impossible to know how old he would have been, or the purpose of the exam.
I agree with Silvery that it may well be worth contacting the school to see what if anything their archives contain about him.
Anna
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The link to the school
http://www.baldwinboyshighschool.org/home.asp
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hey silvey after u gave me the licnk to the school a few weeks ago we made a trip down to bangalore...however they only had records from 1900's and the posting on fibis was of 1885...Tried writing to the fibis people who put up the posting but they couldnt reveal where their source was form...wanted to vist the bangalore spectacle newspaper to go through thir old records but looks like the newspper has ceased to exist.....
so im trying to trace what the C & M exam was all about and if anyone needed to do that for any specific reason cos then i can link things that way...Tried applying for the medal card as well...will that have his DOB or place of birth???
or will that just have geeral details and can i trace back from there....can u help pls
Nee
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The age at mariage is likely to be more reliable, because he gave the detail himself - age at death is how old the informant thought he was...
If you don't have details of his WW1 medal entitlement, you can download the medal card for £3.50 at the National Archives site: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Medal card of Trott, Danvers H
Corps: Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry
Regiment No: 30381
Rank: Acting Serjeant
If his service record survived the bombing of WW2, it will be at Kew, but can only be consulted in person, not by mail. Some service records are now online at Ancestry http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/, but only a few so far.
At the moment, I can't see a Danvers TROTT on the 1901 census or Free BMD.
Rambler
The service record will have more detail than his medal card.
You could try the armed forces board see if anyone can suggest anything there.
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is there a Dumbarton School of marine engineering listed any where?
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;D That's a fairly random question??
Do you mean historically, currently, give us a clue :)
Best is to Google, no thing can hide on the net!
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i wish i knew more to give anyone clues...if i did i wouldnt be here.... :)
All the information i have is what my uncle spoke about and we remembered...My great grand dad has supposed to have studied in a dumbarton school of marine engineering....
Im all the way in India so I have no clue...Tried googling it and found nothing as far as i can tell (unless my search was wrong)...
Been trying 7 yrs to trace my roots and after a point of time u just loose hope.... :(
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Dumbarton - Scotland isnt it? MAybe they came from Scotland which would explain why no one found anything in England!
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Neesha
This is an entry from the British Library India Office website showing that Danvers Harrington Trott's father James Harrington Trott was a 36 year old widower when he married his 19 year old 2nd wife Blanche Louisa Gomez in 1891.
James Harrington Trott was born therefore about 1855 and that would make it highly likely that he was a younger child of James Henry Trott and Margaret Harington who married in 1841.
Familysearch has a James Trott bp in 1815 son of a Robert Trott.
My own interest is in the Har(r)ington surname which is how I came upon your enties.
Record detailsPreviousNext
Name: Blanche Louisa GOMEZ Event type: MarriageStart date: 09 MarStart year: 1891End date: End year: Location: German Evang Mission, HubliSpouse: James Harrington TROTT, 36, widwr, Traffic Insptr, SM RlwyAge: 19Status: Parents: HenryNotes: Transcribed by: British LibraryIndia Office Records Reference:
N/11/8 f.491 Source name: Source year: Source edition: Presidency: Other
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Neesha
There's also a Dunbarton in South Africa and from this rootsweb email evidence that there were Trotts in SA at the beginning of the 20th century including a James Harrington Trott (Danvers father). Maybe Danvers studied in Dunbarton SA (not Scotland) before returning to India.
Subject: [TROTT] Early Trott names in South Africa.
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:08:08 +0200
The South African Archives have just come on-line, wonderful for all genealogists with a South African or two in their Tree. We always thought we were pretty much the first Trott family here, but to our surprise we have found:
JAMES HARINGTON TROTT applying for an appointment in 1893.
TROTT BROTHERS in various legal cases in 1901 and 1904.
ROBERT TROTT taking out a mortgage in 1902.
J. TROTT, a Constable, being transferred in 1903.
H. RIX-TROTT an Acting District Inspector of Public Works in 1904.
CHARLES ALBERT TROTT and ROBERT TROTT with a mortgage bond in 1904.
More about H. RIX-TROTT in 1904.
J. TROTT resigning (Constable) 1905.
CHARLES ALBERT TROTT v. ROBERT TROTT 1905.
W.C. TROTT applying for an appointment in the Cape Mounted Rifles, 1907.
Correspondence with R. TROTT on stock diseases 1911.
Liquidation and Distribution of SARAH BRADSHAW, born TROTT 1911.
Immigration papers PE TROTT and CHILDREN 1949.
If any of you recognize any of these names, the url is http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300cd?OFDD4884
Go well! Ivy Trott in Clovelly, near Cape Town, South Africa.
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