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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: ROSANNA J on Saturday 29 March 08 13:42 GMT (UK)

Title: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Saturday 29 March 08 13:42 GMT (UK)
Hi, if someone was born in Gresford near Wrexham, and married abt 1849 which parish would they have been married in? I've found a marriage with possibly the right names - John Grant born Scotland 1821 married Jane born 1827 in Gresford, and there is one that seems to fit, Jane Morris, but they were married in Llanfyllin which seems to be too far from Wrexham. The year 1849 seems right cos first child born 1850. Any one help me with this?
Thanks Rosanna.
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 29 March 08 14:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Rosanna

Gresford was a parish in it's own right

Have you checked the North Wales BMD site:

http://www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/marriages.html

This will give you a list of all possibles in the area.

Llanfyllin seems unlikely but anything is possible. Where were they in 1851?

Gadget

Added - that is the only marriage showing - it was in Llangynog which was a slate/lead quarrying settlement in Montgomeryshire. Llanfyllin was the RD .
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 29 March 08 14:32 GMT (UK)
They might also have married in one of the Cheshire parishes, close by. Have you got the ref to their child's birth?  It might be best to get that as a check on Jane's surname.

Gadget
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: wrjones on Saturday 29 March 08 15:01 GMT (UK)
Well Rosanna,the 1851 Census shows that their first child was a Mary Jane Grant born in c 1846 in Wrexham,there is also a daughter Elizabeth born in c 1848,and Kate born in c 1850.HO107/2503/507/11.

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: wrjones on Saturday 29 March 08 15:24 GMT (UK)
Although the Birth of Mary Jane Grant is showing in 1846 in the January Quarter in Wrexham,the page number isn't showing on Free BMD.However Elizabeth's Birth took place in the January Quarter at Wrexham in 1848.The GRO Reference is Volume 27,Page 266.Catherine(Kate) Grant's birth is showing as taking place at Wrexham in the January Quarter in 1850.The GRO Reference is Volume 27,Page 273.Either Elizabeth or Catherine's Birth Certificate will give you the maiden name of Jane their Mother.

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 29 March 08 15:45 GMT (UK)
From the birth that William has found in 1846, the best that I can come up with at the moment is:

John Grant. Dec q, 1845, Great Boughton, Cheshire, Vol 19  Page 36

same page - Jane Hughes and Jane Humphreys


Great Boughton is pretty close to Gresford and Wrexham:

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/chs/greatboughton.html


As i said in my earlier messages, any of their children's birth certs would give you Jane's maiden name.

Gadget
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Saturday 29 March 08 21:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks guys,  1st child was 1846 Mary Ann, I've got so much going on in my head with all these names on my tree, I get a bit confused. Looks like I'll have to get birth certificate of one of children.  Another marriage I'm interested in is Edward Whitehall[Whitall] born 1819, and Margaret ? born 1821, they were both born in Marchiel. Their 1st child was Catherine born 1846 in Wrexham. In 1851 they were in Dog Kennel Hill, Wrexham, he was a shoemaker.
Thanks Rosanna.
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 29 March 08 21:52 GMT (UK)
Wrexham, June q, 1845, vol 27, page 43

Edward Whitall  with a Margaret Roberts on the same page.

Gadget  :)
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 29 March 08 21:53 GMT (UK)
North Wales BMD have them marrying in Ruabon - a sub-district of Wrexham  :)
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Saturday 29 March 08 22:12 GMT (UK)
Thanks Professor Gadget,  that was a quick reply. Match of the Day on soon, that will give you a break from the computer, just going to watch it myself.
Rosanna
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 29 March 08 22:14 GMT (UK)
 :D

Any others  ;D
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Saturday 29 March 08 22:34 GMT (UK)
with all the men in my life, husband and sons.
R.
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Paul on Monday 31 March 08 16:02 BST (UK)
North Wales BMD have them marrying in Ruabon - a sub-district of Wrexham  :)

June 9 1845.
Edward Whitall(X) full age. Bachelor. Shoemaker. Abode, Gyfelia. Father, Daniel. Occ, Labourer.
Margaret Roberts(X) full age. Spinster. Abode, Gyfelia. Father, Thomas. Occ, Labourer.
Witnesses. Stephen Stephens. Sarah Roberts. :)

I also came across the marriages of John Grant Jnr.1882. Kate Grant 1870.
and the link for the two families. Daniel Whitehall to Elizabeth Grant 1870.
I don't know if you have them, if not let me know and I'll post them.

I didn't have time to look for baptisms today.

Paul.
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Monday 31 March 08 19:06 BST (UK)
Hi Paul,

Thanks for finding that for me.
Elizabeth Grant who married Daniel Whitall, is my husbands maternal great grandmother. The name is now Whitehall.
Anymore on the Grants would be good, if you can find  it, and I would like the marriage details you mentioned.
Rosanna
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: wrjones on Monday 31 March 08 20:53 BST (UK)
Do you recognise the Witness Stephen Stephens,for the Edward Whitall Marriage Rosanna?

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Paul on Monday 31 March 08 20:53 BST (UK)
Hi Rosanna,
Gwersyllt marriage July 18 1870
Daniel Whitehall. full age. Bachelor. Solicitor's Clerk. Gwersyllt. Father Edward. Shoemaker.
Elizabeth Grant(X). Spinster. Gwersyllt. Father, John. Lime Agent.
Witnesses. John Humphreys and Kate Grant.

Wrexham marriage Aug 8 1870.
John Humphreys. full age. Bachelor. Tailor. Wrexham. Father John. Tailor.
Kate Grant. full age. Spinster. Wrexham. Father, John. Tea Dealer.
Witnesses. Mary Jane Grant and Pascal Avenill?

Wrexham marriage (Oops forgot to get the date) 1882.
John Grant. 24. Bachelor. Compositor. Wrexham. Father, John. Agent.
Mary Jane Woodfine. 20. Spinster. Wrexham. Father, William. Farmer.
Witnesses. John Taylor and Annie Grant.

Paul.


Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Monday 31 March 08 21:24 BST (UK)
Paul's on a roll  ;D

Well done, Paul  :)

I'll have a look at the Ruabon registers tomorrow if Paul hasn't got everything  :)


Gadget
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Paul on Monday 31 March 08 22:21 BST (UK)
The thing is Gadget, where are the baptisms going to be :P
Wrexham, Ruabon, Gresford or Gwersyllt :-\?

Paul.
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Monday 31 March 08 22:23 BST (UK)
Hi Paul

I was going to go backwards from the 1845 marriage in Ruabon. I don't have the Wrexham registers.


Gadget
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Monday 31 March 08 22:26 BST (UK)
Hi Rosanna

Do you have info on theJohn Grant b. Scotland?

I can have a look for you, if you don't.

Gadget
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Wednesday 02 April 08 13:29 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget,
Only things I know about John Grant are: he lived in Wrexham,  he was born in Scotland in 1821,  in 1851 he was a tea dealer, in 1871 he was a lime agent, he had a brother Charles with him and his family in 1851[born 1830]. Nearby in 1851 lived more Grants who were tea dealers, James 1815, William 1825, Elspet 1819[she was down as housekeeper], possibly John's bros and sis.
Thanks Rosanna
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 02 April 08 13:32 BST (UK)
Hi Rosanna

Where they all born Scoland - there might be a pattern if we can get some kind of birth order from his siblings :

James Grant 1815
Elspet Grant 1819
John Grant 1821
William Grant 1827
Charles Grant 1830

There might be a few gaps but worth investigating  :)

My Scottish line moved to Merionethshire and Denbighshire and I've manged to track them down!

Gadget
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Wednesday 02 April 08 13:42 BST (UK)
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the marriage info. Only thing I need now is Jane Grant's maiden name, I'll have to send for Elizabeth's birth certificate. Gadget has offered to find out more about John Grant for me.
Rosanna
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Wednesday 02 April 08 13:43 BST (UK)
Gadget, all born in Scotland.
Rosanna
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Wednesday 02 April 08 13:51 BST (UK)
William,
I have not come across a Stephen Stephens to do with the family.
Rosanna
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 02 April 08 13:52 BST (UK)
If Jane does prove to be a Hughes or a Humphreys, then this marriage cert should give John's father:

Quote
John Grant. Dec q, 1845, Great Boughton, Cheshire, Vol 19  Page 36

same page - Jane Hughes and Jane Humphreys

I can't located any of the siblings on the  Denbighshire censuses after 1851 - I was hoping that one of them might give some hint.

Gadget
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Wednesday 02 April 08 15:19 BST (UK)
There was another child; Ann born 1862[on '71 census]. Also living with them then was a grandson William Grant age 3.  As their only son was only 13 at the time,  William seems to be ill.son of one of daughters.
Rosanna
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 02 April 08 15:31 BST (UK)
Popping in with a Grant death:

Elspet Grant, Mar q, 1853, Wrexham, vol 11b page 273

Gadget
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Paul on Friday 04 April 08 11:43 BST (UK)
If Jane does prove to be a Hughes or a Humphreys, then this marriage cert should give John's father:

Quote
John Grant. Dec q, 1845, Great Boughton, Cheshire, Vol 19  Page 36

same page - Jane Hughes and Jane Humphreys

I can't located any of the siblings on the  Denbighshire censuses after 1851 - I was hoping that one of them might give some hint.

Gadget

Hello.
Nov 28 1845. St John, Chester.
John Grant. 26. Bachelor. Tea dealer. abode, Wrexham. Father, Alexander. Occ Office Clerk?
Jane Humphreys. 21. Spinster. Servant. abode, Chester. Father, John. Cabinet Maker?.
Witnesses. Mary Ann :) Davies and Richard Davies.

Nice one Gadget ;)

Paul
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 04 April 08 14:08 BST (UK)
Woohoo, Paul

We got them   :)

So off to Scotland to find a John, son of Alexander , born circa 1819  :D

I suppose we need to check on Jane Humphreys, daughter of John, b. circa 1824, Gresford* as well  ::)


Gadget

* I don't have Gresford  :(
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 04 April 08 14:38 BST (UK)
and here are strong contenders ~

Cromdale and Inverallan, Morayshire - parents:  Alexander Grant and Mary Fraser

1 Nov 1818 - John
9 August 1829 - Charles

Added - no other John and Charles with father Alexander for the approx   birth dates that we have.

Gadget
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: ROSANNA J on Friday 04 April 08 20:50 BST (UK)
Hi guys,
Thanks for all your help so far, I hope there's more.
Rosanna
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 04 April 08 22:27 BST (UK)
Hi

In addition to John (1818) and Charles (1829), The IGI has the following baptisms in Cromdale and Inverallan for children of Alexander Grant and Mary Fraser:

15 Dec 1816 Isabella
(1818 - John)
11 June 1820 - Mary William
9 Jan 1825 - Alexander
25 Feb 1827 - Francis William
(1829 - Charles)
3 Jan 1832 - Jane
17 Feb 1834 - George McPherson
10 Nov 1836 - Archibald
7 May 1839 - Margaret


Gadget  :)
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gene Genius on Saturday 05 April 08 13:26 BST (UK)
Hello there. I have just caught site of this thread and I admit I haven't read all the answers but just to let you know that Gresford and Gwersyllt and Broughton were all grouped together. Gresford is quite some miles away from Broughton and this has misled ME in the past but I am used to it now.

I am from the area by the way.
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 05 April 08 19:26 BST (UK)
Hi Genie  :)

I don't want Rosanna to get confused.

Broughton, as you will know, is a different place from Great Boughton, where we found the marriage registered:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Broughton/index.html

compared with:

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/chs/greatboughton.html

Gadget

Ps - it's nice to see yet another person from the area - Paul and William and wilcoxon still live there - as does llwyd and Peterj, I think. The rest of us 'old faithfuls' were born and brought up there  :D
Title: Re: Which parish?
Post by: Christof on Wednesday 23 March 11 13:10 GMT (UK)
Hi! This is a longshot and about 3 years too late maybe.

I have lots of information regarding Elizabeth Grant / Whitehall. She was my Great Grandmother on my mother's side. I also have many certificates and an extensive family tree.

However, as a newbie to this site, I cannot contact Rosanna J, even if she is still a member (was last seen on this site on 17th March 2010, I believe).

Can anyone help - please?!