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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex => England => Essex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: katarina on Thursday 13 January 05 21:08 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for James Kilroy who was a soldier in the 61st Regiment of Foot battalion during the mid 1800's but unfortunately I do not know where the battalion was stationed in 1851, so this is a long shot but if anyone comes across the regiment in Essex 1851 census please please could you leave a message for me!! I would be very grateful ;D
James Kilroy married in 1853 in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk but a search has not found him in Suffolk during 1851, whence my asking here for help.
Thanks
Kat
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Katarina,
According to "Regiments of Foot" by H.L.Wicks the 61st Regiment of Foot became the 61st, South Gloucestershire Regiment in 1782 and subsequntly (1881) the 2nd Battalion of The Gloucestershire Regiment. They distinguished themselves at the battle of Chillianwallah (1849) against the Sikh Army, which outnumbered them by at least three to one. In 1857 they were also engaged in the Siege of Delhi. This indicates that James Kilroy may well have been on a tour of duty in India during 1851.
There is an excellent site with lots of information on the 61st at http://members.tripod.com/~Glosters/. The "official museum" website is at http://www.glosters.org.uk/index.html.
Paul
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Paul,
Thank you very much for your reply, it has given me some inroads on where to look next for information on my soldier ancestor.
Kat :)
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Hi Katarina,
my Great Great Grandfather was Private 1990 John Hill of the 61st Regiment of foot.
The information I have on the Regiment for that period is as follows:
The 61st sailed for India in July 1845. The 1000 men and families of the Regiment sailed in 5 ships, taking 126 days to reach India. The Regiment was ashore by mid November and marched the 6 miles to Dum Dum. The rest of the month was spent drawing "Indian kit" and training.
15th December the Regiment began the 600 mile march to Cawnpore, the families and baggage travelling by water when possible. The Regiment arrived on the8th February 1846. Over the next 6 months the Regiment lost 250 men, women and children to disease.
I see your post has been up for a while. Hopefully you will have found your relative in the meantime. If not, I hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Thudders
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hello Paul and Thudnut,
I haven't found out anything about my elusive James Kilroy yet - He is a hard man to pin down!
James was a Serg't in the 61st in 1853 and then later in 1862 he was a Pensioner of the 61st Reg, that is all that I have on him at the moment. I tried to find James and his family on the 1861 census for the uk but he is nowhere to be seen, but turns up in 1862 in London with his family(this is where one of his children was born and I have the birth certificate).
I'm hoping to get up to Kew to the National Archives on 26th Novemeber and see if I can find anything about James from records held there, but Im not very hopeful as James must been a Non Commissioned Officer in the 61st.
I have had a look at a site dedicated to the "Glorious Glosters" and found it very interesting. The information about the regiments movements over the years has enabled me to place James in different places during his life. What I really want is to pin point is where James enlisted, and from that where he was born. I have a feeling that James was born in Southern Ireland but I can not be certain yet.
Thudnut - I wonder if your John and my James served in the regiment together- possible isnt it.
Im going to keep on looking until i track him down!
Oh well, off to search the National Archives online now to see what records I should look at when i get there.
Katarina
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Hi again Katarinna,
I dug out an old book - Cap of Honour (The Story of the Gloucestershire Regiment (28th/61st Foot), 1694 - 1975). Author is David Scott Daniell.
The book is long out of print, but can be found for sale on the Internet.
It states that after the battle of Goojerat and a few skirmishes in and around the Khyber Pass, the 61st Foot were stationed at Peshawar for eight years, leaving that location in the spring of 1857. That seems to cover the date period you are interested in.
Hope that helps, or if there's anything else you would like me to check in the book, let me know.
Kind regards,
Thudnut
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You don't give ay clues as to James Kilroy's age or possible place of birth. On the 1851 census HO 107 1611 folio 791 there was a James Kilroy aged 33 an 'army private soldier' in Chatham Garrison Hospital. He was born 'Ballinrole'? Mayo Ireland. I can't see this man on the 1861 census.
Regards
Valda
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hello Valda,
You may have found James for me. I believe James was born in Southern Ireland but I dont have any proof of this yet. The 61st Regiment of Foot was stationed in Ireland in 1843, first in Dublin during April then Limerick in July of that year, and that is possibly the year my James enlisted.
There is a problem of birthdate for James - In 1853 when he married he states that he was 30 years old, this making his birth year approx 1823. By 1871 when he died on 10th March in St Giles District, Middx he was declared on his death extract as 56 years old, making his birth date approx 1815.
So all i can tell you is that he was born sometime between 1815-1823 poss in Southern Ireland.
There is talk in the family that James came over from Mayo, but it is just rumour as yet.
In 1862 James had his second child in St George, Bloomsbury, Middx and was noted on the childs birth extract as " Pensioner of the 61st regiment". Unfortunately I have not found James or his wife and children anywhere on the 1861 census in the uk.
I do not know what date the 1871 census was taken on but if it was before 10 March 1871 then I may be able to find out for sure if James was born in Ireland.
Valda, was there any other information on the 1851 census about James? The birth of this James is smack in the middle of the dates of birth for my james.
many thanks
Katarina
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Hello Thudnut,
That has helped alot, thank you. Although James married in 1853 his first child was not born until late 1859, this to me says that James was indeed on active service in India until 1857. I believe that sometime during 1857- 1862 James became unable to continue his service in the army and must have applied for or been granted a pension.
If you find any mention of James Kilroy in your book please let me know.
Just out of interest - Do you know how old the men had to be when they enlisted in the 61st? Was there an entry age of say 21 years old? Would it mention something like that in your book i wonder.
Many thanks
Katarina
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Census night 1871 was April 2nd.
You have all the details I could find on the 1851 census. Because this James was not with his regiment, the census does not show which regiment he was in and I don't know whether the 61st was stationed at Chatham in 1851. This James was a private not a sergeant. He would have to have had a meteoric rise to have made sergeant by 1853. However men did rise and fall in the ranks, courtmartialled for things like drunkeness and if he had previously made sergeant he could have quickly returned to that rank again or he could indeed have been an exceptional soldier.
As you know your James' regiment and that he did receive a pension, it will be perfectly possible to find his army attestation papers at The National Archives, which would give you more details about him. You could also follow him through the quarterly muster rolls for the 61st.
I would read the research guides that the National Archives supply on their website before your visit.
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=14
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=16
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=15
The help desks at The National Archives are staffed by very informative and helpful people but obviously if you know what you are looking for, you will be able to help them to help you and so you will get the most out of your visit.
The army wasn't fussy about the age of men who enlisted or much else about them. Men were frequently a little vague about their age and boys would just adjust their age up a little. The army was not in the habit of asking questions. If your James enlisted as early as 1840 (when he could have been as old as 25) then by 1861 he would have served 21 years and be eligible for pension.
If James was in India then other children could have been born and possibly died in India (have you looked in the overseas births?). If he was indeed in India then he would have been there through the Indian Mutiny 1857-1858. His attestation papers and the muster rolls together will tell you where he was stationed - in the case of the muster rolls every quarter each year.
This website gives an extremely detailed account of the 61st in India through the time of the mutiny listing the names of casualties (James does not seem to be mentioned)
http://members.tripod.com/~Glosters/index-4.html
The website says the 61st left India in July 1860. In which case the whole regiment should have been in England for the 1861 census and James earlier if you have a birth in this country for one of his children in 1859.
You don't give any details about James' wife and children, so I can't really help search for them on the 1861 census without some further information.
Regards
Valda
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Thank you very much for the info about the National Archives at Kew, I'm going there on the 26th Nov for the whole day and although I will have to have an induction tour I hope I will enough time to find out something of James' military record.
1861 census - Here is who to look for ie James and family
James Kilroy- Head- age 48/46 born ??
Honor Kilroy - Wife- age 29/30 born in Barrow Suffolk (b.1832)
William Kilroy-son- age 2 born in Barrow Suffolk (b.1859)
If you do get a chance to see if you can find them well i would be over the moon. I really do appreciate your help Valda.
Many thanks
Katarina
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I presume you have the family from the 1871 census, but just in case I think this is them
RG10 338 folio 19
1 Brunswick Mews St George Bloomsbury London
Honora Kilroy 36 Barrow, Suffolk, Head Widow Mangle
William Kilroy 12 Barrow, Suffolk, Son
Richard Kilroy 8 Bloomsbury, St George, Middlesex, Son
Appolonia Kilroy 6 Bloomsbury, St George, Middlesex, Daughter
The name looks much more like Kimoy. I can't find them on the 1861 census i'm afraid.
Regards
Valda
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Valda,
Thank you very much for taking a look for me at the census returns. I wonder where the kilroys went during the 1861 census - the mind boggles. I have found descendants of James kilroy with surname written as Kibroy, Gilroy, Kebroy and all sorts!
Well roll on the 26th and fingers crossed that I find something on this elusive ancestor at National Archives.
Kind regards
katarina
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Hello, did you have any luck with your rearch into the soldier relative do you have an army number for him?
IAN
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Hello once again,
It's been a long time but i'm back and would like to say a very big thank you to all that have replied and helped me find details of James Kilroy.
I know have his military record from the National Archives and i couldn't have done that without your help, so again a very big thank you to you!
I can now say that this query is now closed.
All the very best in your research
Kat ;D