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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: crackpot on Tuesday 25 March 08 17:46 GMT (UK)
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Am looking for info. on the Stewarts of Shambellie. I have just learned of that connection. A Marianne/Marion Stewart married George Mackenzie. they had a daughter Ann Mackenzie who married Rev. William Thorburn of Troqueer. He is my gggggrandfather. Marianne also had a sister Lilias Stewart who married David Staig who was Provost of Dumfries. Any help of info. would be greatly appreciated. I understand that there is a Shambellie Museum.
Thank you.
Pepperpot
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Hi pepperpot or crackpot :)
The Shambellie Museum is a costume museum in New Abbey, Dumfries & Galloway:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,232980.0.html
Could you perhaps give us some dates for the various people that you have mentioned, please?
Regards
Gadget
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Thanks for the reply. I do not have to many dates. Rev William Thorburn was born in 1766 and I would think Ann was born around that time. I have no info about Marion/Marianne Stewart other than her name and who she married. It was said that George Mackenzie was of Netherwood.
Crackpot
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Hi again :)
I'll do some looking around after supper but first, can you tell me where you've got the information. For example have you used Scotland's people, the IGI or some info from other websites or is it information that has been researched/handed down by your family?
The best way to tackle it is to focus on the first( or latest) of the line that you definitely know about and then work backwards from that.
Gadget
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The IGI cotnrolled extraction has the baptism of Ann Hay MacKenzie, Dumfries 7 Dec 1771. Father George MacKenzie. No sign of Lilias on the IGI.
Gadget
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Hi,
Thanks for looking for me. Some of the info. I have has come as a result of an enquiry to the museums curator of the stewartry museum in Kirkcudbright. that is how I found out about Ann Mackenzies parents names, and also that George Mackenzie comes from Netherwood with I think may be an estate but I am not really sure on that. Finding out the name Stewart was not totally unexpected as I heard that name was in the family years ago. In fact I have a very old ring that has the name Stewart on the back of it. Whose it was we have never known only it is a family ring.
Crackpot
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HI
If you Google 'Netherwood +Dumfries', you'll find quite a lot of references - Pigot's directory and farm listings, etc.
Also this link which goes back to a Robert McBrair obtaining the feu of Nettherwood in 1453:
http://www.geocities.com/heartland/woods/4676/almagill.html
I'll look into the Stewarts :)
Gadget
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A bit of background on Shambellie before I look up some names, etc. This is from a book I have entitled 'Discovering Galloway' by Innes MacLeod, John Donald, Edinburgh, 1986. ISBN - 0859761142:
In this chapter, Innes is describing the New Abbey/Sweetheart Abbey area:
Note behind the 1887 Masonic Lodge building the restored two-storey and garret seventeenth century house with forestairs and a datestone over the south window on the east wall showing it was built by John Stewart of Shambellie and his wife, R. Brown, a descendant of Gilbert Brown, the abbot of Sweetheart.............. The mill and mill house were restored for Mr C W Stewart of Shambellie, who handed them over to the nation in 1978.............Shambellie House has been open in the summer since 1982 as a Museum of Costume under the Royal Scottish Museums. [the costumes] all collected by Mr Stewart................Shambellie House itself is a good example of Scottish Victorian Baronial architecture on a small scale by David Bryce, built between 1856 and 1860.
Gadget
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It's very difficult with these propertied families. Often they married in Edinburgh or even England, etc.
I have found a lineage for you though. How accurate it is, I'm not sure at the moment:
http://tinyurl.com/2zrsjy
The webpage seems to try to get you to laggin every few minutes but just click the back button :D
Gadget
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Hi again
I've been searching for wills for George M*ckenzie and can't find any on either the Scotland's People website or the National Archives site which is very strange.
I have the MIs for all of the Kirkcudbrightshire parishes but unfortunately, I don't have them here. I'll have a look next week when I'm back home.
Gadget
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At the moment this is needles and haystacks searching. The only Marion (alternatives) Stewart that I can find bpt. New Abbey is:
29 August 1703 - daughter of William Stewart.
As I say, They could have married and been baptised anywhere in the area or Edinburgh, etc.
I think it might be worth your while subscribing to the Scotlands People website
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
it's pay to view and I've used up a few of my own units already.
The other source is the IGI:
http://tinyurl.com/5kwh
which is free.
Regards
Gadget
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Hi
I've been looking at the chart from the strnet ref that I gave earlier
I see a Lillias Stewart listed who married David Staig, Provost of Dumfries. Her parents were Charles Stewart of Shambellie (1705-1775) and Anne/Lilias Hay, daughter of James Hay of Dumfries.
Charles Stewart's parents were William Stewart of Shambellie (1660-1735) and Marion Stewart (?-1751).
There is no mention of Marion(alts) and George M*ckenzie on the chart. Although it looks possible that Marion was a younger sister to Lilias and named Ann as Hay Mackenzie after her mother. This just possible/probable.
Gadget
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It might also be worth your while contacting the Scottish Genealogical Society:
http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/library.htm
They have lots of genealogies that can be searched.
Gadget
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Hi,
Just saw all the info you have found thanks very much!!! I actually have just started to subscribe to the Scotlands People so will do some deeper looking there. Will also check more into the IGI which I have done but have not had much luck so far. Is that one website you mention Stirnet? I found that one but need to subscribe to that one also which I am thinking to try out for a short time.
Thanks again
Crackpot
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Hi crackpot - I don't subscribe to stirnet - what I did was get the first bit up and do a hasty print screen, then the second bit, etc. Then printed it out and found the bits that looked relevant ::)
Gadget :)
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Hi, I just found your references to the Stewarts of Shambellie. I have only read a small amount of your correspondence so not certain how much you already know. I can probably tell you quite a lot as I have my complete family tree going straight back to the 1090
My G.G.G. Grandfather was William Stewart (1750-1844) and I have an oil painting of him in my hallway. His sister was Marianne or Marion who married George Mackenzie of Netherwood.
You probably know by now that several generations of Stewarts had daughters with the name Marion or variations of it such as Mary Anne and Marianne. My own Great Aunt was Mary Anne Stewart so the tradition was carried on until at least the 20th century.
I hope this is of interest to you and if you like I can send you a photo of my portrait of William Stewart.
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Hi Gadget!
Sorry to intrude in the discussion, but I am curious :P How come you have a different URL for the LDS Familysearch website? I always check out the liks you suggest and they have led to many interesting hours, but this one was was unexpected ... a familiar place with a different key?
Scatza
http://tinyurl.com/5kwh
which is free.
Regards
Gadget
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Hi Scatza
That link takes you direct to the IGI page rather than the general Search page .
Gadget
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Oh, of course Gadget ..... thanks :)
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Hello Southerner,
Would love to hear from you. I have been finding out some things about the Stewarts. George Mackenzie and his wife Marianne are my fifth great grandparents.
Crackpot
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I've been reading all your posts about Shambellie. My2xGgrandparents were servants at Shambellie in 1841, and her brothers and father worked in the sawmill there. If the present house was built in 1856, where was the house in 1841 and whatt was it like? Does anybody know? Phyl
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Am looking for info. on the Stewarts of Shambellie. I have just learned of that connection. A Marianne/Marion Stewart married George Mackenzie. they had a daughter Ann Mackenzie who married Rev. William Thorburn of Troqueer. He is my gggggrandfather. Marianne also had a sister Lilias Stewart who married David Staig who was Provost of Dumfries. Any help of info. would be greatly appreciated. I understand that there is a Shambellie Museum.
Thank you.
Pepperpot
Hello Pepperpot
My Wife took me to Shambellie House some years ago and we were shown around.
I also purchased a book about the House / Family for my collection.
Their later house was an important National Museum of Costume.
I found the book the other day still in packaging, but can't put my hands on it now despite looking.
I'll look again.
Mark
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Hello Mark
Thank you for your email. Since I posted I was able to go to Scotland, research at the Dumfries Archives and visit Shambellie. It was such a thrill. Unfortunately the house is no longer a museum so I was not able to go inside. Thank you for trying to find the book you have---it may be the one I got also--was it on the building of the House? I also have one of the two books by Frank Stewart mine being titled The Early Stewarts Of Shambellie 1550-1700 . I was looking for the second book but have been unsuccessful at that.
Are you related to the family?
Once again thank you
Elaine
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Hello Elaine
I think you may have the book The Creation of Shambellie The Story Of A Victorian Building Contract
Alistair Rowan, 1982. (64 page book £1.25 in 2008)
Mainly about the building of Shambellie House, but some brief Stewart information.
The Shambellie Estate had belonged to Sweetheart Abbey and the Stewarts acquired the estate from the Browns in 1625. The abbot's house in New Abbey village became their family home (no date).
Mark
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Hi
You will find that the costume museum at Shambellie closed several years ago. However, there is an archive of Stewart of Shambellie papers in the Ewart Library Archives in Dumfries. They are quite extensive and worth examining.
Ian McClumpha
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Hi
You will find that the costume museum at Shambellie closed several years ago. However, there is an archive of Stewart of Shambellie papers in the Ewart Library Archives in Dumfries. They are quite extensive and worth examining.
Ian McClumpha
Really glad we went and were shown around when we did. A bit here about what has happened since the 2013 closure.
http://shambelliehouse.org/history-shambellie-house
Yes, that Ewart Library Archives, at Dumfries, holds quite an interesting collection. I was interested in the history and the sad demise of Kenmure Castle, New Galloway, when a scrap metal dealer had his Office there.
Scrap Metal Dealer Purchasing the Castle + Lead on the Kenmure Castle Roof - should have = Alarm Bells Ringing!
The County Authority and Scottish Government failed to secure the building by a Listing Order. The scrap metal dealer had given an assurance he wouldn't demolish Kenmure Castle, so the Council did nothing to protect by Listing. The dealer didn't demolish the Castle. However the dealer, appeared to allow the stripping of the lead off the roof, water got in and the timbers went rotten and a once fine Castle House building, is now in ruin. Which must stand either upon, or near the site of the ancient original building.
When the Local Authority realised what was happening, they decided not to List the surviving intact part, as they feared they might have to make good the lead already removed from the roof. It seems there were two failed opportunities to List, originally and then failing to list the part where the roof was untouched.
We visited quite a few times, but it looked too dangerous to venture inside, due to older underground parts and the possibility of falling masonry. Very sad.
The old archives had the Sasines Register entries. The Ewart Library had some old 20th Century Sale Particulars, the Rate Roll for Kells, references in the Newspapers and the County Council Minutes, so I was able to trace the demise in a number of records and trace all the County Council Minutes, backward and forward.
Mark
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Am looking for info. on the Stewarts of Shambellie. I have just learned of that connection. A Marianne/Marion Stewart married George Mackenzie. they had a daughter Ann Mackenzie who married Rev. William Thorburn of Troqueer. He is my gggggrandfather. Marianne also had a sister Lilias Stewart who married David Staig who was Provost of Dumfries. Any help of info. would be greatly appreciated. I understand that there is a Shambellie Museum.
Thank you.
Pepperpot
In case it is of any interest - I have a book inscribed by Mrs Marianne Mackenzie of Dumfries which she gave as a wedding present to Annie J Addyman who married a man called Hobson in 1882. Annie was from Yorkshire but about 10 years after her wedding came to live in Richmond Upon Thames. The book must have been expensive and is "The Life of Christ" by FW Farrar DD. There is something else inscribed which I can't make out. It may be the residence of Marianne in Dumfries http://ons.addyman.homeip.net/ppl/1/3/b95e0dd48639c74410be601831.html