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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 11:35 GMT (UK)

Title: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 11:35 GMT (UK)
Hi I'm a newbie - I'm hoping to get lots of advice from you lot.

My Grandma recently passed away & I felt it was an appropriate time to attempt my tree.

I have hit a stubbling block somewhat.

Great Great Great Granfather - George Rylah was born c.1846 he married a lady called Ruth nee UNKNOWN. They had 5 - Ernest Rylah (My Great Great Grandfather), Martha Ann, John Dews (possibly mothers maiden name), Frank, Sarah Ethel.

In 1851 he is listed as a visitor in the Rylah household with his Grandparents.
In 1861 George Rylah was living with his Grandparents George & Ann Rylah according to the census.

No mention of his parents at all. On either census.
How would I go about trying to find out who his parents were? He may be an orphan? I dont know.  but presumably if they did die it would be between 1846 (georges birth dat and 1851 when he was listed as a visitor.)

Sorry I know it's an essay, but I need help, I'm scared I'll struggle too much & end up giving up entirely!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: PrueM on Monday 24 March 08 11:42 GMT (UK)
Hi CityTID  :D

Welcome to Rootschat!  If you need help you've come to the right place...and you can forget about giving up at the first hurdle!  This game never lets you give up!!!!  Sorry to hear about your grandma, it's often the way that it takes the loss of the older members of our family to spur us into finding out about our past.

First things first:  do you have a marriage certificate for George RYLAH and Ruth?  Seems not...that would be the place to start if you want their fathers' names (and her maiden name).  You might get lucky and find some other family members were witnesses, too.

What area of the UK are we talking about? 

Cheers
Prue

Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: tazzie on Monday 24 March 08 11:42 GMT (UK)


   Hi ....   WELCOME TO ROOTSCHAT ;D

  ok heres a quick add.....Ruth Dews married George Rylah  Dewsberry 1867.

  Now we need Georges birth cert details ...off to look.

                     Tazzie
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: ricky1 on Monday 24 March 08 11:43 GMT (UK)
Hi CityTid

Welcome to roots,

Are you talking about the Geoge Rylah born in Yorkshire

ricky
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 11:45 GMT (UK)


   Hi ....   WELCOME TO ROOTSCHAT ;D

  ok heres a quick add.....Ruth Dews married George Rylah  Dewsberry 1867.

  Now we need Georges birth cert details ...off to look.

                     Tazzie

Oh my god where did you find  that?

Thank you so much for your help!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 11:46 GMT (UK)
Hi CityTID  :D

Welcome to Rootschat!  If you need help you've come to the right place...and you can forget about giving up at the first hurdle!  This game never lets you give up!!!!  Sorry to hear about your grandma, it's often the way that it takes the loss of the older members of our family to spur us into finding out about our past.

First things first:  do you have a marriage certificate for George RYLAH and Ruth?  Seems not...that would be the place to start if you want their fathers' names (and her maiden name).  You might get lucky and find some other family members were witnesses, too.

What area of the UK are we talking about? 

Cheers
Prue


Thank you so much for your help!
My family are all from the south yorkshire / west yorshire area.  And I dont have any birth or death certificates. My family are rubbish at keep ing things!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: genjen on Monday 24 March 08 11:48 GMT (UK)
Birth registration:

Dewsbury/vol xx11/p8 June 1845

Rylah - male, no christian name given. Could this be him?

Jen
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 11:48 GMT (UK)
Hi CityTid

Welcome to roots,

Are you talking about the Geoge Rylah born in Yorkshire

ricky

Yep everyone is from Yorkshire :)
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 11:50 GMT (UK)
Birth registration:

Dewsbury/vol xx11/p8 June 1845

Rylah - male, no christian name given. Could this be him?

Jen
This is a possibility.  As I have his DOB at c.1846.  What would the reasons be to not give him a Chrisitian name though? I am so confused!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: ricky1 on Monday 24 March 08 11:54 GMT (UK)
1841 census for the family

George Rylah 45 tailor born in county
Ann          "    40                  "
John          "  20     "            "
Charles     "  13                   "
Henry        "  10                   "
Thomas     "  6                     "
Joseph      "  4                     "

living at Soothill, Dewsbury, Yorks
H0107/ 1268/14
folio 10
page 13

ricky
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: PrueM on Monday 24 March 08 11:55 GMT (UK)
I found a JOhn RYLAH, widower, in 1851, born Earlsheaton living Soothill.  About the right age - could he be the father of Dixon and George, who are visiting with George and Anne in 1851?
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Monday 24 March 08 11:58 GMT (UK)
Dixon's father was John anyway!  :D

Extracted IGI christening
DIXON RYLAH Christening 27 DEC 1841   Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Father JOHN RYLAH  Mother SUSAN     
 
Can't see George's christening though  :(
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 11:59 GMT (UK)
1841 census for the family

George Rylah 45 tailor born in county
Ann          "    40                  "
John          "  20     "            "
Charles     "  13                   "
Henry        "  10                   "
Thomas     "  6                     "
Joseph      "  4                     "

living at Soothill, Dewsbury, Yorks
H0107/ 1268/14
folio 10
page 13

ricky

Do you think is his father?

This site is brilliant, I only just stumbled across it on Google! Thanks for so much help.
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: genjen on Monday 24 March 08 12:01 GMT (UK)
The lack of name probably means simply that they hadn't decided what to call him, nothing more sinister. It isn't especially common but certainly not an abnormal thing to do.

Jen
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 24 March 08 12:04 GMT (UK)
A maybe?

Deaths Mar 1850
Rylah Susan Dewsbury 22 46
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 12:06 GMT (UK)
Where do you get all of this info from?

I have spent a fortune so far trawling through irrelevant information on the net!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 24 March 08 12:06 GMT (UK)
But .... there's also a Susanna Rylah who died 1842 Sept 1/4 vol22 p7, in Dewsbury ...
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 12:08 GMT (UK)
But .... there's also a Susanna Rylah who died in 1841 in Dewsbury ...

Well it cant be her because George wasnt born until 1846. 

( I just wish I knew how to update my tree know :o) )
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: ricky1 on Monday 24 March 08 12:08 GMT (UK)
A possible marriage is in 1841

John Rylah
Sept Quarter
Dewsbury
Yorks
vol 22
page 16

On the same page with  a load of other names is a
Susanna Gibson

ricky
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: LizzieW on Monday 24 March 08 12:09 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat, as you've discovered we're quite a helpful bunch.

To find births, marriages and deaths before about 1920, the easiest website is:

www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl which as it's name implies is free and if you find a marriage for one partner and click on the number given, it will then show more names one of which will be the other partner.

For census etc. you can try www.ancestry.co.uk or www.findmypast.com both of which you have to pay to use.

Pre 1837, try www.familysearch.org

Hope this helps for now.

Lizzie
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Monday 24 March 08 12:15 GMT (UK)
Ricky - Dixon call one of his sons Gibson so that does look like Dixon's parents.

Shame we don't have any proof that Dixon and George were brothers  :P
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 24 March 08 12:18 GMT (UK)
Yes the 1842 death may not be correct - unless Susanna died after the birth of Dixon, and George has a different mother ....?

The marriage of John Rylah (and possibly Susanna Gibson) in 1841 would fit in with John still being at home with his parents, as the census was taken June 1841 ... and the marriage took place Sept 1/4.

It looks like a shotgun wedding with Dixon chr Dec 1841  ;)

Purchasing both boy's certificates would tell you who the parents are ...
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: ricky1 on Monday 24 March 08 12:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Tati
thanks for that ;)

ricky
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 12:20 GMT (UK)
We are as sure as we can be at the moment that Dixon and Geaorge are brothers

We also have another name in the mix either Absicom / Abscern or Absolom, depending on which records we look at.  It's really confusing!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 12:20 GMT (UK)
The marriage of John Ryland (and possibly Susanna Gibson) in 1841 would fit in with John still being at home with his parents, as the census was taken June 1841 ... and the marriage took place Sept 1/4.

But it's Rylah
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 24 March 08 12:22 GMT (UK)
Yes it is Rylah - I mistyped.
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: ricky1 on Monday 24 March 08 12:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Citytid

It is John Rylah on the 1841 marriage index with Susanna Gibson

ricky
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 12:26 GMT (UK)
Brilliant thank you :)

I wish I had found you lot earlier as I would have managed loads more!

Thank you so much

Kate xx
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 12:32 GMT (UK)
So how would I go about clarifying if Dixon & George were definately brothers?
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: ricky1 on Monday 24 March 08 12:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Citytid

on the 1851 census, which I suppose you have

there is a Leah Rylah living with George and Ann



And on the 1871 census
John Rylah head mar 49 tailor Yorks Earls Heaton
Leah    "     wife mar 42               "           "
living at Town Street, Soothill, Dewsbury, Yorks
Rg10/ 4607
folio 18
page 30

So looks like John remarried

ricky
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 24 March 08 12:37 GMT (UK)
The marriage to Leah isn't on FreeBMD unfortunately.
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Monday 24 March 08 12:39 GMT (UK)
So how would I go about clarifying if Dixon & George were definately brothers?
That's the bit that isn't obvious right away! No christening for George on the IGI.
Hopefully, if you order George's marriage cert, it will tell you that his father was John, a tailor  :)
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Monday 24 March 08 12:42 GMT (UK)
The marriage John/Leah is
Sep 1851 Dewsbury XXII 74
John Rylah - Leah Newsome

 :D
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: ricky1 on Monday 24 March 08 12:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Citytid

I think you will find John Married a Leah Newsome in 1851
Sept quarter
Dewsbury
Yorkshire
vol 22
page 74

on FreeBMD
there is a Leah Newsome married
sept quarter
dewsbury
vol 22
page 7* other part of it is missing

ricky


snap Tati ;D
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 24 March 08 12:46 GMT (UK)
Good finding Ricky and Tati  ;D
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 15:24 GMT (UK)
hank you for your help everyone

I am going to start looking into finding his marriage certificates and see if we can work from there.

Now for Ernests wifes family!  Biby or Betsy nee Ward???  This should be fun!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Monday 24 March 08 15:27 GMT (UK)
You can order the marriage cert online (£7)
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

George Rylah - Ruth Dews
June qarter 1867 
Dewsbury registration district volume 9b page 719
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: tazzie on Monday 24 March 08 15:30 GMT (UK)



   Hi again  citytid.......

   consider yourself   addicted....... ;D.


                            Tazzie
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Monday 24 March 08 15:34 GMT (UK)
Marriage Jun 1898 Dewsbury 9b 1163
Ernest Rylah - Betsy Ward

They're with mum in law in 1901!  :D

1901
RG13/4271 49 9 & 10
Soothill Nether
Cross Street
2 rooms occupied

Elizabeth Ward, head, wid, 70
Louisa, dau, s, 33, Blanket Weaver
Ernest Rylah, son, in law, mar, 30, Wool Shaker?
Betsy Rylah, dau, mar, 27
Arnold Rylah, grandson, 2
Doris Rylah, granddau, 5 mo

All born Earlsheaton
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Monday 24 March 08 15:38 GMT (UK)
The 1881 census is free to search at www.familysearch.org or www.ancestry.co.uk

You'll probably want to find them by yourself. Just shout if you have problems  :)
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 15:40 GMT (UK)
You can order the marriage cert online (£7)
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

George Rylah - Ruth Dews
June qarter 1867 
Dewsbury registration district volume 9b page 719

Ordered.  Thank you very much  :)
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 15:42 GMT (UK)



   Hi again  citytid.......

   consider yourself   addicted....... ;D.


                            Tazzie

I know!!  It's great.
I am a member of a Manchester City forum too, and I have a highly addictive personality!

So how far back do you think I should go?
And is there a way of finding out information about the individuals?  I mean names and dates are all well and good, but if we know sod all about them its pretty pointless :)
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 15:44 GMT (UK)
The 1881 census is free to search at www.familysearch.org or www.ancestry.co.uk

You'll probably want to find them by yourself. Just shout if you have problems  :)

I by no means was asking you to look for me.  I'm not that cheeky :)
Just need a few pointers!
Thank you for all your help, I am well on my way now ! x
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Monday 24 March 08 15:48 GMT (UK)
I see it the other way round ;D 

We (well, I anyway!) sometimes struggle refraining ourselves from giving all the info we can see :P :P ;D
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 15:53 GMT (UK)
I see it the other way round ;D 

We (well, I anyway!) sometimes struggle refraining ourselves from giving all the info we can see :P :P ;D

I find it's hard to find all the relevant info when there is so many similar records!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: tazzie on Monday 24 March 08 16:15 GMT (UK)



   Depends  how far back you want to go .

   Census info helps build the picture with jobs and address to follow up and check. I have got photo's of houses still standing and churches where they married....of course the further back you go the less you know unless the parish clerk was a good record collector and added notes to baptism records or marriages.

                           Tazzie
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 24 March 08 17:22 GMT (UK)



   Depends  how far back you want to go .

   Census info helps build the picture with jobs and address to follow up and check. I have got photo's of houses still standing and churches where they married....of course the further back you go the less you know unless the parish clerk was a good record collector and added notes to baptism records or marriages.

                           Tazzie

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Boongie Pam on Monday 24 March 08 21:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Kate,

A warm welcome to you  :)

HAve you had a look at this thread?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,292543.msg1763375.html#msg1763375

There is a free trial for old newspapers.  With a name like Rylah you may get lucky and find newspaper entries.

Don't want to spoil your fun so all I'll say is there are 160 hits to trawl through  ;)

Sign up and see what you find, might be nothing?

Pam
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Tuesday 25 March 08 17:34 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much  :)
Been through them all, most are legal notices as a Mr Rylah was a solicitor.  He was from Dewsbury however I fail to see how he may fit in, as most in our family were mill / factory workers
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 25 March 08 17:37 GMT (UK)
Have you found the Ward family in 1881, CityTID? Would you like us to try and trace them further back?  :)
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Tuesday 25 March 08 17:41 GMT (UK)
Well I am nearly convinced Dixon & George are brothers.

I need to work out about Susanna / Susan / Leah.

I dont want to go further back if we are not 100%, dont want to be searching someone elses family ;o)

Thanks for all your help.

I wish I had found this website 2 months ago!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Friday 28 March 08 14:04 GMT (UK)
I still havent recieved the certificate, I hope it comes soon.  I have been lazy this week and I've not really done much!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 29 March 08 11:22 GMT (UK)


  See that addiction is kicking in .....now you will be stalking the postman waiting for that cert .... ;D

  Let us know what it says and we will be back to help.

                                    Tazzie
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Saturday 05 April 08 19:00 BST (UK)
Hello, I'm back!
Ok so I've got George Rylah's marriage certificate now.  And I have his father as John Rylah.
George's wife Ruth Dews her father was called Francis Dews.
So how now do I find Francis's wifes name?

Thanks

Kate
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Saturday 05 April 08 19:33 BST (UK)
Great! John Rylah is just what we wanted to see!  8) (was he a tailor too?)

1851
HO107/2324 350 23
Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Aspinal Square

Frank Dews, head, 41, Yarn Manufacturer, b. Soothill Yorks
Rachael, wife, 38, Home, b. Robert Town (?)
Martha, dau, 5, scholar, b. Dewsbury
Ruth, dau, 2, scholar, b. do.
Joseph, brother, unm, 21, Hand Loom Weaver, b. Soothill
Sarah Ann Simpson, lodger, 9, Home, b. Dewsbury
Frank Dews, son, 4 mo, Home, b. do.   

Was Francis a Yarn Manufacturer on the marriage cert?  :)
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Saturday 05 April 08 19:38 BST (UK)
Francis and Rachel were already married in 1841 so we're looking for a marriage earlier than that:

1841
HO107/1268/1 47 24
Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Asman Square

Francis Dews, 30, Clothier, born Yorkshire
Rachel, 25, b. Yorkshire
Frost, 1 month, born Yorkshire

(ages were rounded down to the nearest five for adults)

Frost's christening is on the IGI:
FROST O. CONNER DEWS 25 JUL 1841 Dewsbury Father FRANCIS DEWS, Mother RACHEL 
They also had a son Stapleton Dews!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Saturday 05 April 08 19:42 BST (UK)
How about this marriage, found on the IGI at www.familysearch.org (extracted record)  :D

FRANCIS DEWS - RACHEL HOWARD
Marriage 11 OCT 1835   Dewsbury, Yorkshire, England
 
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Saturday 05 April 08 19:57 BST (UK)
1861
RG9/3411 72 13
Dewsbury, Yorkshire
426 Assman Sq

Benjamin H Godley, head, 32, Stone Mason, b. Ossett
Rachel, wife, 48, b. Robert Town
Martha A Dews, stepdau, 15, Woollen Thread Piecer, b. Dewsbury
Ruth Dews, stepdau, 12, Woollen Thread Piecer, b. Dewsbury
Frank Dews, stepson, 10, scholar, b. do.
Richard Godley, lodger, 17, Stone Mason, b. Ossett

(marriage Rachel Dews - Benjamin Heaton Godley Dec 1853 Dewsbury 9b 695)

Rachel dies in 1868.

Who were the marriage witnesses? 
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: CityTID on Monday 07 April 08 13:33 BST (UK)
1861
RG9/3411 72 13
Dewsbury, Yorkshire
426 Assman Sq

Benjamin H Godley, head, 32, Stone Mason, b. Ossett
Rachel, wife, 48, b. Robert Town
Martha A Dews, stepdau, 15, Woollen Thread Piecer, b. Dewsbury
Ruth Dews, stepdau, 12, Woollen Thread Piecer, b. Dewsbury
Frank Dews, stepson, 10, scholar, b. do.
Richard Godley, lodger, 17, Stone Mason, b. Ossett

(marriage Rachel Dews - Benjamin Heaton Godley Dec 1853 Dewsbury 9b 695)

Rachel dies in 1868.

Who were the marriage witnesses? 
Benjamin Heaton Godley was a witness!!!!
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Tati on Monday 07 April 08 13:39 BST (UK)
Hurrah  8) 8)
Title: Re: Howdo
Post by: Niggy0 on Tuesday 08 November 16 16:46 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I know this is an old post and is going to sound like a con  - but I am 100% genuine.

Is your great grand father Ernest Rylah of the Durham Light Infantry?

If so I am in ownership of his remembrancer poppy pin from the RBL

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/community/stories/remembrance/going-for-gold-the-somme-poppy/


As such I was just wondering wether you would like to take ownership (purely cost price)

If not I will continue to honour you grandfather each Remembrance Day

Respectfully yours

Nigel Rowland